Is It just me? Are Scouts a bit OP?

[AlrikFassbauer]

Scouts are not designed for sustained fights. Wittle them down with all you got, and watch as they try to flee from your missiles/blasters

 

This reminds me of the Shadow in Ground PvP.

Very bursty, thus immensely feared (and whined upon), plus, this fear is even strengthened by Shadow players themselves ...

[Zoom_VI]

This reminds me of the Shadow in Ground PvP.

Very bursty, thus immensely feared (and whined upon), plus, this fear is even strengthened by Shadow players themselves ...

 

Scouts are also like pre 2.5 shadow tanks.

 

Shadow - woops didn't dodge or shield, just got instagibbed

 

Scout - woops didn't evade that laser, just exploded.

[tunewalker]

These are true words right here. Scouts may feel OP when played by a skilled pilot, but ANY ship will feel that way if you're squaring off with a more skilled pilot than you.

 

Scouts are not designed for sustained fights. Wittle them down with all you got, and watch as they try to flee from your missiles/blasters (In a striker of course. Gunships just sit back and snipe ). Scouts will pester you, but they will run (Especially if they aren't as skilled as you are). If you're going against a veteran Pilot though, it really doesn't matter what your flying, cause the person is just better then you. Simple as that.

 

Why else would everyone complain about ALL the ships being OP? Because someone better then them flies it, kills them, and now they think its OP. I don't think one Ship style has not been called OP yet.

 

Except for a strike the only complaint people have had is they don't like hearing the missile lock on sound constantly blaring and some one immediately thought that meant Strikes are OP even though scouts get all kinds of things that lock on as well. No has called a Strike class Op yet only that they are well balanced. So maybe it isn't Scouts are OP but that Strikes are UP who knows, but strikes are the least to be called OP and of course the leaderboards support this they have the most damage taken most deaths and have no where near hit above 80k damage or 20 kills with both other ship classes have. So all in all Strikes seem to be built to be the punching bag for the other ships.....at least their shields are strong enough to fill that role.

[Zoom_VI]

Could have been me.

 

Wasn't upgraded, though.

 

I ment that I have only been shot down by another scout about four times or so.

 

Strikes are honestly better at killing scouts than scouts are at killing themselves, b/c strikes have the upfront firepower to do significant damage on the two second hit windows you get when fighting a competent scout.

[tunewalker]

I ment that I have only been shot down by another scout about four times or so.

 

Strikes are honestly better at killing scouts than scouts are at killing themselves, b/c strikes have the upfront firepower to do significant damage on the two second hit windows you get when fighting a competent scout.

 

Again you know the only difference in weaponry that a Strike has is missiles and Heavy blasters right, Scouts blasters do more damage because of on use abilities. This argument is purely wrong Strike don't have more firepower they have better shields and armor strength Scouts have heavier fire power. I can break down the dps numbers if you wish.

Edited December 12, 2013 by tunewalker

[Zoom_VI]

Again you know the only difference in weaponry that a Strike has is missiles and Heavy blasters right, Scouts blasters do more damage because of on use abilities. This argument is purely wrong Strike don't have more firepower they have better shields and armor strength Scouts have heavier fire power. I can break down the dps numbers if you wish.

 

Strikes have two primaries and their secondaries are much more hard-hitting. Scouts have one primary and one secondary.

 

Also you realize that blaster overcharge has a decent sized cooldown on it, stop acting like its always up.

[tunewalker]

Strikes have two primaries and their secondaries are much more hard-hitting. Scouts have one primary and one secondary.

 

Also you realize that blaster overcharge has a decent sized cooldown on it, stop acting like its always up.

 

It take time to resume fire after switching weapons so that doesn't really help their "dps" just helps them be more adaptable To different situations. Their secondaries hit harder but also take longer to Lock on thus over all dps is the same if not less, both have Cluster missile access. When Blaster overcharge is down they are equal in damage potential when it is up Scouts out damage strikes by a large margin. All-in-all it NONE of this makes it where at any point a Strike has some form of better front load. Thanks to Distortion field shields (if a scout uses it) it can actually be the other way around as a scout can become immune to everything a strike does (missile locks don't work when upgraded) for its duration meaning the SCOUT has the better front load.

[Soul_of_Flames]

I can kill things faster in my strike than I can with my scout. But I still feel much more OP when I fly my scout.

[Ridickilis]

I have to agree that strike fighters are good for taking out scouts, those give me the most problems when on my scout. Scouts are good for taking out GS and GS are good against strike fighters (along with unaware opponents ). There is your 'lose' trinity, I'd say working as intended.

 

Or I'll put it this way:

 

A GS will run when a scout gets close. A scout doesn't want to get into a dogfight with a strike fighter and a strike fighter doesn't have enough boost or armor to help get to a GS fast enough before getting spaced.

 

Sure, there are exceptions (cue the strikers saying they take out GS easy enough, scouts who do dogfight etc) but pound for pound, skill for skill, awareness for awareness, this is how I see it shaping up.

[tunewalker]

I have to agree that strike fighters are good for taking out scouts, those give me the most problems when on my scout. Scouts are good for taking out GS and GS are good against strike fighters (along with unaware opponents ). There is your 'lose' trinity, I'd say working as intended.

 

Or I'll put it this way:

 

A GS will run when a scout gets close. A scout doesn't want to get into a dogfight with a strike fighter and a strike fighter doesn't have enough boost or armor to help get to a GS fast enough before getting spaced.

 

Sure, there are exceptions (cue the strikers saying they take out GS easy enough, scouts who do dogfight etc) but pound for pound, skill for skill, awareness for awareness, this is how I see it shaping up.

 

Actually I think the balance is GS beat scouts, Scouts beat Strikes and Strikes beat Gunships.

 

Reason GS can one shot an unaware scout if it has bypass, A GS that gets noticed by a Strike can be shot down from long range thanks to missiles and has the shield and fire power to withstand a shot or 2 from a gunship and keep on kicking.

 

A scouts Maneuverability, speed and firepower along with some abilities can allow to close the distance fly straight at a Strike and have the strike dead before the strike can even begin locking a missile or landing a single shot (distortion shields).

 

But if Scouts destroy GS then yes they are Op because a good scout counters every ship type that's the point.

[Cordarn]

Tricks to killing a scout fighter,

 

1. Hit them twice with a gunship's rail gun.

 

2. lock on missiles and use your cooldowns if the fight isn't going your way.

 

3. bring a friend or two.

 

4. bait them into coming into enemy controlled satellites and let the turrets pulverize them.

 

5.hit them with a sabotage probe, and let your blasters do the rest.

 

 

And no, the scout fighter isn't op you just need to either A. learn to play your class to its full potential, or B. learn how to kill scout fighters. Theres a different way to dogfight another scout then there is a strike fighters.

 

Also you might be losing to scout fighters all the time because thats what the more skilled players prefer.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Cordarn

[mr_sim]

So all in all Strikes seem to be built to be the punching bag for the other ships.....at least their shields are strong enough to fill that role.

 

I'm OK with that actually. But Then make medals that reflect that.

[Zoom_VI]

Actually I think the balance is GS beat scouts, Scouts beat Strikes and Strikes beat Gunships.

 

Reason GS can one shot an unaware scout if it has bypass, A GS that gets noticed by a Strike can be shot down from long range thanks to missiles and has the shield and fire power to withstand a shot or 2 from a gunship and keep on kicking.

 

A scouts Maneuverability, speed and firepower along with some abilities can allow to close the distance fly straight at a Strike and have the strike dead before the strike can even begin locking a missile or landing a single shot (distortion shields).

 

But if Scouts destroy GS then yes they are Op because a good scout counters every ship type that's the point.

 

I don't think there is anything resembling a trinity other than there being three ship types.

 

Gunships hardcounter everything at long range. Scouts completely hardcounter gunships at close range, and soft counter strikes in close range, restricted area dogfights. Strikes are a jack-of-all-trades master-of-none ship.

[Ridickilis]

Actually I think the balance is GS beat scouts, Scouts beat Strikes and Strikes beat Gunships.

 

Reason GS can one shot an unaware scout if it has bypass, A GS that gets noticed by a Strike can be shot down from long range thanks to missiles and has the shield and fire power to withstand a shot or 2 from a gunship and keep on kicking.

 

A scouts Maneuverability, speed and firepower along with some abilities can allow to close the distance fly straight at a Strike and have the strike dead before the strike can even begin locking a missile or landing a single shot (distortion shields).

 

But if Scouts destroy GS then yes they are Op because a good scout counters every ship type that's the point.

 

Perhaps, this was my loose interpretation of my experiences. I sneak up on a GS using LoS and get him to move/run, I have him where I want him. He's feeding into my strengths now.

 

When I get caught up in a dogfight with a strike, I do try and put more distance between us but that means I'm not attacking him. If we're 'jousting' head to head 9/10 times the strike fighter beats me because he's a bit beefier and has more firepower than me.

 

Having said that I haven't unlocked the tier 2 "battle scout", which may very well be more suited for dogfighting.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Ridickilis

[tunewalker]

I don't think there is anything resembling a trinity other than there being three ship types.

 

Gunships hardcounter everything at long range. Scouts completely hardcounter gunships at close range, and soft counter strikes in close range, restricted area dogfights. Strikes are a jack-of-all-trades master-of-none ship.

 

Now that's an argument for why strikes don't seem to be topping leader boards but still have a place, If some one is just as good as a strike pilot and can get their comfort zone they win, but if a strike can take advantage of what the other lacks (range for a scout, maneuverability for a GS) then they can win.... that's an argument.

[tunewalker]

Perhaps, this was my loose interpenetration of my experiences. I sneak up on a GS using LoS and get him to move/run, I have him where I want him. He's feeding into my strengths now.

 

When I get caught up in a dogfight with a strike, I do try and put more distance between us but that means I'm not attacking him. If we're 'jousting' head to head 9/10 times the strike fighter beats me because he's a bit beefier and has more firepower than me.

 

Having said that I haven't unlocked the tier 2 "battle scout", which may very well be more suited for dogfighting.

 

Oh ya the "battle scout" is more my issue the classic one I feel is a bit more balanced and has a bit more give and take, Use Distortion field and Blaster overcharge and the only strike fighter that will beat you head on is one using Charged Plating.... and every one knows just about no one runs that for fear of being one shot by a GS railgun.

[Itkovian]

Blaster overcharge: Power shield, directional shields, superior maneuvers, quick charge shields, engine abilities. Dodge. Problem solved.

 

While I am undecided on whether or not Blaster Overcharge is OP, but above is not truly a valid argument. All it means is "go defensive". How is that a valid counter, that somehow means the ability is not overpowered?

 

If the proper counter to an ability is "go defensive", particularly when there is no way of knowing that ability is being used until AFTER you are being hit, then I would suggest that this ability is indeed extremely powerful and quite possibly too powerful.

 

I mean seriously, this is like saying "smash is balanced, just pop Warding Call before it's used".

 

In short, going defensive is _never_ a proper balancing factor for any abilities for which there is no adequate warning that this ability is being used.

[tunewalker]

While I am undecided on whether or not Blaster Overcharge is OP, but above is not truly a valid argument. All it means is "go defensive". How is that a valid counter, that somehow means the ability is not overpowered?

 

If the proper counter to an ability is "go defensive", particularly when there is no way of knowing that ability is being used until AFTER you are being hit, then I would suggest that this ability is indeed extremely powerful and quite possibly too powerful.

 

I mean seriously, this is like saying "smash is balanced, just pop Warding Call before it's used".

 

In short, going defensive is _never_ a proper balancing factor for any abilities for which there is no adequate warning that this ability is being used.

 

Unlike missiles which give all kinds of warnings of being locked and being fired.

[Gavin_Kelvar]

Well as a primary striker pilot I'll say ions work like a charm against them. No I may not get the kill myself but I get plenty of assists this way (and since kill/assists are counted equally I don't rightly care which I get). Using ions to remove their shields before a missile strike is also quite effective.

 

The ONLY problem I have is with the evasion/accuracy mechanic. But I don't fault scouts for that I blame poor game mechanics that don't fit into the game. Most of the stuff works and makes sense but for a dogfighting heavy game integrating a ground MMO accuracy/evasion mechanic doesn't work. All it ends up doing is prolonging fights because a RNG decides you miss your shots this time.

 

Ground game you just wait for the global cooldown and try again, in GSF you may have to wait quite a long time before getting back on their tail. Flying my striker I've found this is applicable to dogfights with strikers as much as it is with scouts. Primarily because in a dogfight it's very unlikely that you'll get to shoot deadcenter and the off center accuracy penalties can be brutal on some weapons. Scouts may benefit from this most because the maneuverability (which is balanced) is more likely to force an enemy to shoot off center more so than other less maneuverable starfighters but again it's the fault of poor game mechanics, not the scout.

 

So simple thing: remove accuracy and remove evasion. Replace light armor evasion with boosts to turning/speed (or similar) and with the distortion field give it a stealth effect that breaks missile locks & hides you on radar/makes an enemy unable to target you for its duration. I'd bet good money that as soon as accuracy/evasion got removed there wouldn't be any problems with the scout.

 

EDIT: I should add that I'm now trying to avoid shooting off center regardless of what enemy I'm fighting and I have noticed significantly better results against all ship types. So I'm strongly inclined to believe that scouts aren't OP but rather accuracy/evasion is simply a horrible game mechanic when used in GSF and needs to be removed.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Gavin_Kelvar

[Itkovian]

Unlike missiles which give all kinds of warnings of being locked and being fired.

 

Exactly, thus why I said "when there is no warning the ability is being used." Missiles have ample warnings, with the more powerful ones having commensurate longer and more difficult locks to complete.

 

Blaster Overcharge does not, so if it IS too powerful (and I'm not saying it is), then "just dodge" can't be the proper counter.

[tunewalker]

Well as a primary striker pilot I'll say ions work like a charm against them. No I may not get the kill myself but I get plenty of assists this way (and since kill/assists are counted equally I don't rightly care which I get). Using ions to remove their shields before a missile strike is also quite effective.

 

The ONLY problem I have is with the evasion/accuracy mechanic. But I don't fault scouts for that I blame poor game mechanics that don't fit into the game. Most of the stuff works and makes sense but for a dogfighting heavy game integrating a ground MMO accuracy/evasion mechanic doesn't work. All it ends up doing is prolonging fights because a RNG decides you miss your shots this time.

 

Ground game you just wait for the global cooldown and try again, in GSF you may have to wait quite a long time before getting back on their tail. Flying my striker I've found this is applicable to dogfights with strikers as much as it is with scouts. Primarily because in a dogfight it's very unlikely that you'll get to shoot deadcenter and the off center accuracy penalties can be brutal on some weapons. Scouts may benefit from this most because the maneuverability (which is balanced) is more likely to force an enemy to shoot off center more so than other less maneuverable starfighters but again it's the fault of poor game mechanics, not the scout.

 

So simple thing: remove accuracy and remove evasion. Replace light armor evasion with boosts to turning/speed (or similar) and with the distortion field give it a stealth effect that breaks missile locks & hides you on radar/makes an enemy unable to target you for its duration. I'd bet good money that as soon as accuracy/evasion got removed there wouldn't be any problems with the scout.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gun-NKS80c

[Zoom_VI]

Now that's an argument for why strikes don't seem to be topping leader boards but still have a place, If some one is just as good as a strike pilot and can get their comfort zone they win, but if a strike can take advantage of what the other lacks (range for a scout, maneuverability for a GS) then they can win.... that's an argument.

 

IMO the jack-of-all-trades is whats killing strikes because of this

Also you might be losing to scout fighters all the time because thats what the more skilled players prefer.

 

I am a speed and crazy maneuvers junky, I have always been a interceptor pilot, and the flashfire is like the Focke Wulf F190 D9 of space. There are many other great pilots who are with me in the speed and maneuverability are the best shields.

 

Conversely many of the pilots who like ranged tactical combat all gravitate to the gunship. That leaves the Star Guard without any real niche of appeal.

 

And really this is a Flashfire vs. Star Guard thread. I doubt anyone finds NovaDrives OP except maybe at satellite zerging. And honestly Pikes have the most potential to become the first truly overpowered ship; simply because they stack so incredibly well with each other. (Nothing like getting Ptorp lock spammed from three directions)

[tunewalker]

IMO the jack-of-all-trades is whats killing strikes because of this

 

 

I am a speed and crazy maneuvers junky, I have always been a interceptor pilot, and the flashfire is like the Focke Wulf F190 D9 of space. There are many other great pilots who are with me in the speed and maneuverability are the best shields.

 

Conversely many of the pilots who like ranged tactical combat all gravitate to the gunship. That leaves the Star Guard without any real niche of appeal.

 

And really this is a Flashfire vs. Star Guard thread. I doubt anyone finds NovaDrives OP except maybe at satellite zerging. And honestly Pikes have the most potential to become the first truly overpowered ship; simply because they stack so incredibly well with each other. (Nothing like getting Ptorp lock spammed from three directions)

 

I doubt the Pike will be Op a Star guard can equip any missile type the Pike can save for ion missiles which have the unfortunately 5000 meter range and 3 second lock on time by the time you fire it the enemy should already be dead if you are a half decent shot (and evasion isn't borking you) but even then breaking a 3 second lock on time at 5000 metters when the thing locking on you is a strike and not a scout is pretty easy thanks to the lack of mobility the Pike has.

 

The only thing that makes a Pike great is its ability to fire one missile switch to the other type and begin trying to fire it. Which could be considered nearly OP, but with all the warning signs and ability to avoid missile locks its not to the level that Blaster Overcharge is, but again I like the argument that they are the Jack's of all trades saying never try to engage the enemy in their comfort Zone if you get a scout on you hope another scout, can get him off or a Strike or Gunship can snipe him off. If you going against a Gunship don't let it sit at range use your speed and maneuverability against it. If you get hit a few times by either its ok because you have the bulk to survive it. Cover the gaps in your team as a strike don't try to be a one man show. That has been the best argument for why they are balanced and will never top the charts but still are a needed part of the team.

[Zoom_VI]

Another thing that just occurred to me that might be the big reason for Flashfires topping the scorecarts.

 

At this point all those kill and damage records are from people who do nothing but go after kills the entire match. This means that the moment a fight clears at one node they are zipping off towards the next bunch of red dots.

 

Strikes however are much slower which means that they have to spend more time traveling from fight to fight. Strikes are just as effective in a fight as flashfires but they spend more time travel to and fro which adds up to less kills. Thus the high speed Flashfire becomes the ship of choice when it comes to racking up kills.

[jizerai]

I have two questions regarding all these hypothetical "They just evade me all the time and then I die immediately when the Scout looks at me"-scenarios.

 

1) Where is your team in all of this?

2) How are they doing damage to you as they're using their rolls, going out of range and line-of-sighting?

 

I do agree that Scouts seem very good in the hands of a skilled pilot. I also happen to think that is true of any ship class. It might be that it's more noticeable with the Scout, as they are - perhaps - the most in need of a skilled pilot in order to be successful.

 

Either way, I find it rather strange to find that those with a lot of kills and few deaths in every match I have been in (granted, a small sample size and very susceptible to bias) seem to be the best pilots, regarding of what class they played.