Is It just me? Are Scouts a bit OP?

[mr_sim]

If evasion is entirely removed in its passive form then I demand a frigging buff to my shields. 1k shield arc is nothing when every single primary has 1k+ shield dps when upgraded.

 

Besides I God-mode cooldowns are the problem, not RNG. RNG in not controllable by the scout, simply put there are not enough hits taken to even begin to meet the theoretical evade amount. that's why RNG specs and RNG procs are considered detrimental in the ground game. Because RNG leaves the player at its mercy.

 

41% chance to be invicible, 59% chance to get raped.

 

The active is the problem because its active allows scouts to be outplayed and yet they can still waltz out of their own failure just by popping a button. No Scout should be able to fly in a straight line and not have to face the consequences.

 

The problem it there is too much game out there to remove Distortion field now. How do you compensate the players who have 1K* + 1K + 2.5k + 10k = 14.5k ship requisition invested in their DF.

 

Also woot 300 posts.

[Kaivers]

It's really not about thrust. A larger engine should = more engine power and regen at your disposal.

 

At the moment Scouts have access to an Engine Power Pool that is equal to or greater than Strikers. It is the same with Engine Regen. In addition they, rightly so, have higher Engine speed and consume less power from engines (afterburners).

 

All Strikers have a base Engine Speed of 774m/s, while all Scouts have 780m/s....so Scouts are faster, not a problem makes sense.

 

All Strikers have a base Afterburner Cost of 5, while all Scouts have 4.....so Scouts have more efficient engines for thrust, not a problem makes sense.

 

All Strikers have a base Afterburner Consumption Rate of 10.4/s, while Scouts have 8.7/s...so again Scouts have more efficient engines, not a problem makes sense.

 

What doesn't make sense to me is that Scouts ALSO have both Engine Power Capacity (100-108) and Engine Regen (5.0 - 5.4) equal to or greater than Strikers.

 

So Scouts are not only faster and more maneuverable...they also have more power and regen available to sustain this speed for a longer period. Larger engine should = larger fuel tank.

 

Think about it in athletic terms. Scouts are supposed to be 100-200m Sprinters, where its all about acceleration and max speed right? While Strikers are 300-400m Sprinters where its all about endurance and sustained speed.

 

At present Scouts outperform in everything....Acceleration and Max Speed (Afterburner Cost/Consumption + Engine Speed), Endurance (Engine Regen) and Sustained Speed (Engine Power).

 

Its like Scouts are Usain Bolt AND Michael Johnson (in his prime) all rolled into one!

 

There's a reason Usain Bolt would burn Michael Johnson (in his prime) in any race up to 200m...and a reason Michael Johnson (in his prime) would come out on top in any race over 200m.

 

For Example:

 

100m

Usian Bolt's best: 9.58

Michael Johnson's best: 10.09

 

200m

Usain Bolt's best: 19.19

Michael Johnson's best: 19.32

 

300m

Michael Johnson's best: 30.85

Usain Bolt's best: 30.97

 

400m

Michael Johnson's best: 43.18 World Record

Usain Bolt's best: 45.28

 

I'm going to give the Devs the benefit of the doubt, because I really don't think they intended for Scouts to be a Michael Bolt or Usain Johnson. Lol.

 

Edit: To those who think this is a non issue, be advised that more engine power and faster regen increases a ship's "active" evasion capabilities. Stack this with passive evasion and you have a ship that, in the right hands, is near impossible to hit. Bottom line: Strikers should at the very least have more engine power than Scouts because it just makes sense. To further reduce imbalance I would also advise giving them faster Engine regen as well.

 

IMO: A Scout's ability to "Scout" is bolstered by its sensors so it uses its superior acceleration and speed to get ahead of the pack and reveal the battlefield to incoming Strike Fighters who use superior sustained speed and endurance to launch themselves in the direction of the enemy i.e. the "Striking" aspect of a Strike Fighter. Granted, a particular ship's build will give it the proper capabilities to perform as an effective combat fighter (the generic role of every ship in GSF is to be a combat fighter) but I believe this to be the specific role(s) of Scouts and Strikers.

Edited January 25, 2014 by Kaivers

[Kain_Turinbar]

The problem it there is too much game out there to remove Distortion field now. How do you compensate the players who have 1K* + 1K + 2.5k + 10k = 14.5k ship requisition invested in their DF.

 

Also woot 300 posts.

 

Abusing Distortion Field can be pretty fun, it seems there are plenty of players (mostly Gunship pilots it seems) that don't know how it works. My theory is they probably went straight to the Gunship and like the sniperesque mechanics and haven't tried a Scout yet.

 

The other night I killed what must have been a noob that apparently didn't know about Distortion Field flying a gunship the same exact way 7 times in the same match. I saw him sitting close to 15k feet away, barrel rolled straight at him and when I came out of it popped Distortion Field, Blaster Overcharge, and Bypass and continued straight into him until he was done. Every time I did this he still sat there parked trying to hit me with railguns and eventually whispered me calling me a hacker.

[Tenacity]

Here's my suggestion:

 

1. Convert all passive evasion in the game to damage reduction instead (aka mitigation or 'armor'). Make component and ability renames as necessary.

2. Change all components and upgrades that offer 100% armor piercing to 25-50% armor piercing instead, to compensate for the fact that armor is now much more important.

3. Change Distortion field's active ability to 100% evasion bonus for the duration, at the cost of a 100% accuracy loss - the distortion goes both ways, you cant be hit but your weapons cant target the enemy either.

[Armonddd]

The problem it there is too much game out there to remove Distortion field now. How do you compensate the players who have 1K* + 1K + 2.5k + 10k = 14.5k ship requisition invested in their DF.

 

Also woot 300 posts.

 

lol, 14.5k. That's just so little to me now that it's not worth worrying about (well, on POT5, at least), and I expect that in a month or two a lot of people will be feeling the same.

 

Once they add bombers and infiltrators, and set up four total ships for each (between fleet req unlocks and cartel unlocks), that's one daily. Less, if they add a third "class" of ship under each role (or just add an extra cartel version for each class).

 

Of course, if they do it right, there won't be any... demand? to refund people in the first place, because Distortion Field will still be a powerful button in the right build without being an infinitely versatile I win button for (nearly) every build the way it is now.

[Zoom_VI]

The problem it there is too much game out there to remove Distortion field now. How do you compensate the players who have 1K* + 1K + 2.5k + 10k = 14.5k ship requisition invested in their DF.

 

Also woot 300 posts.

 

And how do you refund people who spent a month leveling and gearing a hybrid VG for arenas? You don't, people can live with it.

[Arkerus]

Scouts get 41% evasion, approximately infinite afterburner power, and (for half the populace) two missile breaks. They will absolutely survive more firepower than a strike fighter.

 

And thats exactly the problem with this game.

 

Scouts offer a superior package, end of story.

[Armonddd]

And thats exactly the problem with this game.

 

Scouts offer a superior package, end of story.

 

Ever flown against a good gunship? At least you can do something about good scouts.

[mr_sim]

Ever flown against a good gunship? At least you can do something about good scouts.

 

Yes but GS and scout don't really scale, the determining factor between the 2 is range and nothing else.

 

Scout vs the other classes is what most matters.

[Zoom_VI]

The age of the Flashfire will be ending with 2.6

 

Why? Because in 2.6 strikes are getting a AoE control weapon the form of a missile, Novadive/blackbolts are getting a EMP field which is essentially another AoE stun that just emanates from the Novadive. Gunships already have a AoE control weapon in ion rail. And bombers are stacked with AoE everything.

 

What you a crazy maneuverable FF? Ill just shoot this AoE at a turret or drone and boom now you completely disabled and free pickings.

 

There won't be room in 2.6 for a dogfighter ship once all the AoE control stacking starts.

[elthenar]

The age of the Flashfire will be ending with 2.6

 

Why? Because in 2.6 strikes are getting a AoE control weapon the form of a missile, Novadive/blackbolts are getting a EMP field which is essentially another AoE stun that just emanates from the Novadive. Gunships already have a AoE control weapon in ion rail. And bombers are stacked with AoE everything.

 

What you a crazy maneuverable FF? Ill just shoot this AoE at a turret or drone and boom now you completely disabled and free pickings.

 

There won't be room in 2.6 for a dogfighter ship once all the AoE control stacking starts.

 

Sounds good in theory, but as an Ion Rail pilot I can tell you that there aren't that many targets to bounce an Ion chain off of to hit a scout.

 

Flashfire/Sting is the win ship. It has superior firepower, speed, survivability, agility and sensors. If you happen to land a good hit on a scout and get them in a bad spot, they just leave and you can't stay with them if you aren't also in a scout. The only thing that a flash/sting doesn't get is a railgun, they have every other great mod in the game.

 

In short, yes though their 2 scouts need to get beaten with the nerf bat and hard.

[Zoom_VI]

Sounds good in theory, but as an Ion Rail pilot I can tell you that there aren't that many targets to bounce an Ion chain off of to hit a scout.

 

Flashfire/Sting is the win ship. It has superior firepower, speed, survivability, agility and sensors. If you happen to land a good hit on a scout and get them in a bad spot, they just leave and you can't stay with them if you aren't also in a scout. The only thing that a flash/sting doesn't get is a railgun, they have every other great mod in the game.

 

In short, yes though their 2 scouts need to get beaten with the nerf bat and hard.

 

I am 100% sure a gunship armed with distortion field and barrel roll, and ion rail to boot is like 3 times as OP. Please I sneak up on a gunship that is too busy tunnel visioning to pay attention, I fire one shot and poof he goes godmode.

 

Pot calling the kettle black coming from you.

[elthenar]

I am 100% sure a gunship armed with distortion field and barrel roll, and ion rail to boot is like 3 times as OP. Please I sneak up on a gunship that is too busy tunnel visioning to pay attention, I fire one shot and poof he goes godmode.

 

Pot calling the kettle black coming from you.

 

I've had Flashfires twoshot my GS, so either you have a poorly fit ship or are bad.

 

Gunships are powerful and are in a much better place than Strike Fighters. At least they can do something a Flashfire can't do better

[Zharik]

I've had Flashfires twoshot my GS, so either you have a poorly fit ship or are bad.

 

Gunships are powerful and are in a much better place than Strike Fighters. At least they can do something a Flashfire can't do better

 

While possible this happens at 500m or less... gunships can 1 shot at 15km...

[Zoom_VI]

While possible this happens at 500m or less... gunships can 1 shot at 15km...

 

I'm more concern with the fact they can spam what amounts to a AoE CC from 15km, oh and it doesn't have a CD either..

[elthenar]

While possible this happens at 500m or less... gunships can 1 shot at 15km...

 

I've never had a gunship one shot me. I think it's a myth. If you got "one shotted" you probably got hit by an ion or something nearly simultaneously.

 

On the other hand, I had a flashfire pilot two shot me several times just in one game. Literally under 1 second every time.

[Zharik]

I've never had a gunship one shot me. I think it's a myth. If you got "one shotted" you probably got hit by an ion or something nearly simultaneously.

 

On the other hand, I had a flashfire pilot two shot me several times just in one game. Literally under 1 second every time.

 

I've oneshot a GUNSHIP with a crit/bypassed lucky roll. He was alone and guarding a sat, but did not see my approach vector (dampeners!).

[Beslley]

I've never had a gunship one shot me. I think it's a myth. If you got "one shotted" you probably got hit by an ion or something nearly simultaneously.

 

On the other hand, I had a flashfire pilot two shot me several times just in one game. Literally under 1 second every time.

 

You can oneshot with bypass up, but a sting's oneshot/twoshot against a gunship comes so fast as to be unreactable to. Gunship should be at a disadvantage against a scout if the scout gets the jump on them but you should at least get a chance to react to the attack.

 

Honestly both ion railgun, bypass, evasion, barrel roll, and blaster overcharge need to be looked at because

 

1) lovetaps are ridiculous on a fully upgraded ion, and honestly should not be able to do what they're doing in current play (get the full effect without charging up)

2) bypass is far and away the best companion active in game offensive-wise, only one that came close during testing was HK and they nerfed it

3) evasion >>>>> any other defensive stat right now. It puts anyone who can't run distortion field and lightweight armor at an immediate disadvantage.

4) barrel roll is faster than boosting and more power efficient. Giving it to gunships and allowing them to escape every close encounter is not in line with a slower, less maneuverable ship with less power.

4) blaster overcharge with burst lasers is just obscenely powerful. Giving stings the best offensive power in the game while making them impossible to hit with missiles because they are rolling everywhere while evading gunship shots turns them into unstoppable killing machines

 

What I'd like to see is a GSF where every ship component is useful depending on the situation, but right now that is really not the case, and furthermore, it doesn't make sense to run anything other than stings/manglers right now. Hopefully bombers will mix up the meta but it would be better if there weren't a meta at all, just different builds for different situations.

 

TL;DR Nobody runs anything but manglers/stings, I want GSF to basically be TF2 in space but right now this ain't it.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Beslley

[Zoom_VI]

I've oneshot a GUNSHIP with a crit/bypassed lucky roll. He was alone and guarding a sat, but did not see my approach vector (dampeners!).

 

I'm curious as to how you succeeded in getting dampening sensors on a flashfire.....

[Zoom_VI]

I've never had a gunship one shot me. I think it's a myth. If you got "one shotted" you probably got hit by an ion or something nearly simultaneously.

 

On the other hand, I had a flashfire pilot two shot me several times just in one game. Literally under 1 second every time.

 

Bypass is a garenteed one-shot on any scout that isn't running HP armor.

[Altheran]

Bypass is a garenteed one-shot on any scout that isn't running HP armor.

 

I see you read my post in the Gunship thread.

[Zoom_VI]

I see you read my post in the Gunship thread.

 

LoL, I've know that since the second week of GSF, the math isn't exactly hard.

 

I will point out that a scout with Directional shield set to the direction of the gunship can eat a slug crit, just not a bypass.

[Trevor_the_Bruce]

Scouts are not OP. In my epxperience playing GS (ever since it was released to Subscribers), I have no trouble taking out Scouts with my Strike fighter. On good proton torpedo followed up with a volley of laser blasts will pretty muchend them quick. The proton torpedoes range is what really helps defend against the scount, imo. Scouts are great at taking out Gunships. Gunships are more likely to take out Strike fighters. So it usually is like this in a game:

 

Gunships beat Strike fighters

Strike fighters beat Scouts

Scouts beat Gunships

 

This isn't to say that strike fighters can't take out gunships or that scouts can't take out strike fighters or that gunships can't take out scouts, because they all can. It just consistently these matchups work out in the users favor quite often.I'd say the GS is pretty well balanced in most regards. People just need to get used to all the different options their starfighters can get access to.

[Altheran]

LoL, I've know that since the second week of GSF, the math isn't exactly hard.

 

I will point out that a scout with Directional shield set to the direction of the gunship can eat a slug crit, just not a bypass.

 

Ah, my bad. The timing was too good.

[Flearos]

Flashfire/Sting is the win ship. It has superior firepower, speed, survivability, agility and sensors. If you happen to land a good hit on a scout and get them in a bad spot, they just leave and you can't stay with them if you aren't also in a scout. The only thing that a flash/sting doesn't get is a railgun, they have every other great mod in the game.

 

In short, yes though their 2 scouts need to get beaten with the nerf bat and hard.

 

This... Honestly if they didn't have burst cannons, quads, and distortion fields cd was longer (imho 1 min is not to long for an invincibility button) then they would be fine. Scouts should be about using your superior speed and maneuverability to drop in behind a target click to him like glue while you take him down. They should loss a head to head pass, the idea of it should scare them.