Why did we leave?

[Yakito]

Edit: Before I start I feel like I need to spell it out for a few people. I do not hate the game, I do not think it's garbage and I always wanted the best for it, but it has flaws that you cannot simply dismiss over and over again.

 

To all the people that stayed subscribed since the very beginning - I admire your patience/insanity.

Now, for a long post.

 

 

I'd like to say a few words after coming back after 1+ year.

Why did we leave in the first place?

My guild was very good, we had some amazing players that loved Star Wars and raiding.

ToR brought is some great storytelling...

And that's it.

 

We had ability delays, most of my raid had 7 fps during the raids - and I can tell you that we had machines that were more than suited for this MMO. I won't go into specifications, because if you pretend the fps issue never existed, you've been lying to yourself for 1,5 years.

We played the 7fps game. After hours of raiding it felt like... imaging looking at a strobe light for 4 hours and then looking out the window. Damn! The world was so smooth...

 

Very often we felt like we were beta testing the game. We would complete a Hard Mode Raid and get ... a bugged chest, unlootable, or a boss disappearing, or something else...

But we pressed on.

 

And then we cleared it all, with last bits of patience left. We were hoping for some fixes, but those were nowhere in sight.

 

And one by one one of the best guilds on my server started to get smaller. From 16 man we went to 8.

I never blamed a SINGLE player that left. They had the right to do so, the game was so unfinished that Bioware should have been red from embarrassment.

 

 

Now, to all of the "fanboys" that were shouting:

"It's a new MMO, Bioware's very first, give them time".

How much time, guys? I just came back after a year - I still get the same of FPS, I still have ability delay. There are a few more features added and only 5 or so servers left, as opposed to tens of them at launch.

 

How much more time do we have to give Bioware? Until there's one server, no players on it and they start realizing that they screwed it up?

They won't change the graphic engine, and that should have been their priority 1 from the day 1. I think most of them gave up on their own product.

As I look at my guild roster I see about 20 people with "Last played - 1 year". And those were the core players. They haven't looked back or even logged on after the game went Free-to-play.

 

That's pretty freaking sad. That's how bad they felt about the game which they were VERY enthusiastic about. Bioware couldn't screw this up, right?

 

 

 

Why did I subscribe? I missed it. I am not here for Warzones or Raids, I want to complete the stories, fly with my spaceship. This game has still got some fun factor, but this game is destined to fail completely with the development it currently has. Worlds still feel empty and lonely, most planets aren't that fun to play. You can't chose what path you would like to take, you can only complete the same exact side quests.

It's always: Starting Zone, Coruscant, Taris and so on. We can't even choose different zones with the same level requirement just to have a BIT of a difference in questing.

 

Still, this game is 50% more fun with at least one questing partner. Fun factor increases greatly.

 

 

It took you a year to fix absolutely NOTHING.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Yakito

[chuixupu]

Yeah, I dunno man. I've been here since day 1....I've seen tremendous improvements in pretty much every aspect of the game.

Is it still buggy? yeah. FPS issue? I don't really have them except every now and then when wierd stuff happens...but that happens to me in WoW and GW2 just as often.

 

FYI, they didn't just remove servers, they are mega servers that hold 3-4 times as many players as the old one did. And there are 17 servers.

 

There is always a lot of room for improvement, but I've been enjoying this game a lot for 2 years now, and I've seen many things get addressed over time, even if not everything I would like to see.

 

Have you ever asked, why did the people stay that stayed? Hint: it's not because we're masochists or don't have other things to play.

[Yakito]

The sad part is, I only know of 1 player of our whole 40 people guild that stayed.

And I am not even sure if he's still playing either.

 

The game is still kinda fun, but when I log onto Eve, WoW, GW2 I see... jesus, I see quality. So much of it.

GW2 programers and art designers should give lessons to Bioware programmers.

WoW developers should give Bioware lessons on how not to copy their own game in 90%, slap a different IP on it and add 1 feature (storytelling/audio). They could also take a lesson on the endgame from these guys.

Eve - That's a different game completely, but I think the developers are very good and know their stuff very well.

 

I honestly always wanted the best for ToR, I wished it the best of luck and I tried to support it. But I couldn't support it while I was constantly slapped in the face by very bad development choices by Bioware. I remember that when they destroyed my beloved Trooper by nerfing the healing into oblivion I lost my patience completely and quit. And they never listened to the community. I can't remember a single time they did.

 

And for the love of god, where is Pazaak? It was such an amazing game, and adding it to ToR would add so much fun.

[Vandicus]

Only time I've had fps issues was with Ilum mass pvp. Quite frankly expecting your same insufficient rig to miraculously run a game better a year and a half later, is absurd.

 

Hard mode content. Yeah, you weren't exactly anything remotely approaching a dedicated raider. Also most of the bugs you mentioned regarding loot were fixed in short order.

 

Ability delay is an existing problem. Its been better and worse. However it doesn't affect gameplay to any significant degree. Most people won't actually notice ability delay in normal gameplay because it happens so infrequently. If you're seeing it more than once every hundred button pushes or so, its a different problem that you are misreporting as ability delay.

 

 

 

Not even sure what issues you were expecting them to "fix", but you might want to look at the patch notes before suggesting they've fixed nothing.

 

They can't replace your rig for you(fps issues)

The boss drops were fixed forever ago and those raids have been obsolete for nearly as long

Replacing the game's graphics engine is a stupid idea

 

Lastly, I'd like to remind you, that you speak only for yourself. The game has had plenty of people leave for different reasons, but don't go pretending that your reasons are their reasons.

[Yakito]

Only time I've had fps issues was with Ilum mass pvp. Quite frankly expecting your same insufficient rig to miraculously run a game better a year and a half later, is absurd.

 

Hard mode content. Yeah, you weren't exactly anything remotely approaching a dedicated raider. Also most of the bugs you mentioned regarding loot were fixed in short order.

 

Ability delay is an existing problem. Its been better and worse. However it doesn't affect gameplay to any significant degree. Most people won't actually notice ability delay in normal gameplay because it happens so infrequently. If you're seeing it more than once every hundred button pushes or so, its a different problem that you are misreporting as ability delay.

 

 

 

Not even sure what issues you were expecting them to "fix", but you might want to look at the patch notes before suggesting they've fixed nothing.

 

They can't replace your rig for you(fps issues)

The boss drops were fixed forever ago and those raids have been obsolete for nearly as long

Replacing the game's graphics engine is a stupid idea

 

Lastly, I'd like to remind you, that you speak only for yourself. The game has had plenty of people leave for different reasons, but don't go pretending that your reasons are their reasons.

 

So you still blame our machines for the horrendous fps?

Just because YOU don't have the fps problems doesn't mean it's not there. I am not going to buy a new machine just for ToR if my current one can play every single game that was released to date, usually with High-Medium graphic settings.

I won't even mention people with SLI that had just a few FPS more than me in our raids.

Not dedicated enough? Also not true. We raided for months, after the biggest bugs were fixed too. We just couldn't bother to put up with patches that broke stuff instead of fixing something.

[Vandicus]

So you still blame our machines for the horrendous fps?

Just because YOU don't have the fps problems doesn't mean it's not there. I am not going to buy a new machine just for ToR if my current one can play every single game that was released to date, usually with High-Medium graphic settings.

I won't even mention people with SLI that had just a few FPS more than me in our raids.

Not dedicated enough? Also not true. We raided for months, after the biggest bugs were fixed too. We just couldn't bother to put up with patches that broke stuff instead of fixing something.

 

Did you guys ever check out what was causing your fps issues? Chances are it wasn't your graphics card. Having SLI doesn't mean a whole lot, independent of the rig's actual specs. Just because I used crossfire on an older rig, doesn't mean I get nearly the performance I do on my newer one.

 

You were complaining about Hard mode gear drops and from what sounds like pre-EC raids. You at the very least were not a dedicated raider. You fall under the description of casual raiders in the game. Nothing wrong with that, but emphasizing your guild's ability to complete Hard mode raids comes across more as adorable than impressive. Being a casual raider does nothing to diminish the validity of your commentary on bug issues.

 

You complain about patches breaking things, but that's simply a vague generalization. I can recall major instances of patches causing problems, but none of them were pre-1.2. That's just the same vague complaint launched in every MMO forum everywhere.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Vandicus

[Erasimus]

I too came back after a long break. Neither my Republic 100+ nor my Imperial 80+ guild exist any more. And very few of the players I knew are still around. They left for many of the same reasons cited, just as I did.

 

There have been improvements, I would call them incremental rather than huge myself. There is still ability lag and while I wouldn't say I have serious FPS issues I do still have more issues with SWTOR than any other game I play, and I play quite a few. (I do have a pretty high end system.)

 

There are things I like about this game and I hope it continues onward. But, the only reason I'm back and haven't left again is I'm playing very very casually. Honestly more like a single player game with some multi-player features like WZs. I'll hang in so long as it still entertains me and hope for the best going forward.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Erasimus

[Yakito]

I don't remember what was the final content we did, but you can't go around telling us we weren't serious raiders if we only did x and y.

We ended up being fully geared with Rakata gear, which was the best at the time.

How is that casual? We raided quite a lot, actually.

 

My understanding of casual - raiding only a few times per week, not focusing on Hard Modes, doing it mostly for fun and knowing that we aren't that good.

It was precisely the opposite.

[chuixupu]

The sad part is, I only know of 1 player of our whole 40 people guild that stayed.

And I am not even sure if he's still playing either.

 

Which is really not unusual. My guild in WoW started at the game's launch, and 2 years after it was out, there was maybe 3 of the original members. However, the guild is still there full of people and active. The same guild migrated to SWTOR. 4 of the original 35 or so members that started at launch remain, but we now have 40 new active accounts in the guild. People will leave MMOs, new people will come. That's just how it goes.

 

The game is still kinda fun, but when I log onto Eve, WoW, GW2 I see... jesus, I see quality. So much of it.

GW2 programers and art designers should give lessons to Bioware programmers.

 

I also play Gw2 and WoW. Yes, GW2s world and combat was a lot better designed than SWTOR. And WoW simply has 8 years of billions of dollars of yearly income to be in a very polished state....which it was not always in. If you played WoW back then you would have quit for the same reasons you left SWTOR. Going pretty much into WotLK. If you tell me you did play in the early days and didn't experience problems, you're apparently just about as lucky as I have been in SWTOR to not have dealt with the issues you have.

 

But regardless, despite having an active WoW sub still and owning Gw2, I play SWTOR every day consistenly, because it's actually more fun.

 

WoW developers should give Bioware lessons on how not to copy their own game in 90%, slap a different IP on it and add 1 feature (storytelling/audio).

Like WoW did with EQ?

Edited December 9, 2013 by chuixupu

[Vandicus]

I don't remember what was the final content we did, but you can't go around telling us we weren't serious raiders if we only did x and y.

We ended up being fully geared with Rakata gear, which was the best at the time.

How is that casual? We raided quite a lot, actually.

 

My understanding of casual - raiding only a few times per week, not focusing on Hard Modes, doing it mostly for fun and knowing that we aren't that good.

It was precisely the opposite.

 

4 times a week was the maximum possible as of the release of KP.

It was possible to get full Rakata in Hard modes alone.

 

However Hard mode content at the time was not dedicated raider content. Nightmare mode was.

Anything less than progression raiding(attempting to acquire BiS) is considered casual raiding, because you're just raiding as a side activity.

 

Also, all the dedicated raiding guilds at the time were interested in ranking on Nightmare content(though interest in the rankings isn't what it used to be). If you guys weren't doing nightmare content at the time, then you weren't a dedicated raiding guild.

 

Rakata gear was one of those things that everyone who did pve content had by the time of 1.2.

[chuixupu]

Well, in all honesty, the only reason why EV and KP NiM were much of a challenge were because of bugs, especially on Soa. After they fixed them, they were pretty easy.

 

I really believe they've consistently improved their operation encounter design and difficult with each new one that they've added. Bugs on Corruptor Zero aside.

[Yakito]

Isn't there:

Normal mode

Hard mode?

Isn't Hard Mode just called "Nightmare" instead?

 

Because I clearly forgot the silly names.

Either way, we did the most difficult one, period.

[psandak]

So you still blame our machines for the horrendous fps?

Just because YOU don't have the fps problems doesn't mean it's not there. I am not going to buy a new machine just for ToR if my current one can play every single game that was released to date, usually with High-Medium graphic settings.

I won't even mention people with SLI that had just a few FPS more than me in our raids.

Not dedicated enough? Also not true. We raided for months, after the biggest bugs were fixed too. We just couldn't bother to put up with patches that broke stuff instead of fixing something.

 

Me thinks you exaggerate...

 

I have a nearly five year old rig (pre i-series quad core with DDR2 RAM) with an 18 month old video card (nVidia GTX550Ti) and while the FPS is not at 60 while raiding the 20FPS I get is more than adequate. Sure, there are moments when the FPS goes to near zero, but those are exceptions. And as someone else mentioned ability lag is quite rare.

Edited December 9, 2013 by psandak

[Vandicus]

Isn't there:

Normal mode

Hard mode?

Isn't Hard Mode just called "Nightmare" instead?

 

Because I clearly forgot the silly names.

Either way, we did the most difficult one, period.

 

Story Mode/Normal Mode

Hard Mode

Nightmare Mode

 

If they were a progression guild you could probably find their name on the rankings. Not that its a big deal.

 

But anyways, you'll sound awfully silly if you make a big deal of how your guild was able to complete HM KP or HM EV back in the day, so best remember those "silly" names if you don't want to be thought silly yourself.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Vandicus

[Reno_Tarshil]

You guys left because you didn't get enough hugs obviously.

[Yakito]

I wasn't making a big deal out of them, you did.

You picked on that particular subject for no reason.

[chuixupu]

3 modes of difficulty.

 

I can tell you that the difficulty of of the newer Nightmare mode Ops is definitely quite a bit more than the first two ops.

[Vandicus]

I wasn't making a big deal out of them, you did.

You picked on that particular subject for no reason.

 

Because talking about your raiding guild and then about the old HM raids is hilarious. The reason I "picked on it" was because its funny. Now what you originally typed was not accurate to your guild's true accomplishments, but the way it will be read(taken at face value) will make you and your guild seem silly, especially in light of your complaints about gearing bugs(which were an actual and valid problem).

 

It comes across as bemoaning the wasted effort invested in a trivial task(which Nightmare mode wasn't, but Hard mode was).

 

*EDIT

 

People will essentially end up believing your guild to have been casuals that thought they were better than they were if they read only the OP. Its just more likely to cause people to be dismissive of you(the whole idea being, this guy clearly doesn't know what real raiding is, how can he be right about anything else sort of mentality). Its not a fair, nor rational way to treat people and their issues, but it is a fairly common way to operate.

Edited December 9, 2013 by Vandicus

[Lunafox]

You guys left because you didn't get enough hugs obviously.

 

It's why I cancelled my sub. Not enough hugs from my companions...and not enough stories with them, and no more indi class stories. I was here from before launch too, been subbed with no interruption since launch, and yeah, I've decide my wallet is going to start voting, by not letting any more money out into this, until they give people what they need.

 

Aside from dailies and crafting there's nothing left to do, and I'm not going to do any of that pvp crap, ground or aerial. Nty.

[RandomXChance]

Me thinks you exaggerate...

 

I have a nearly five year old rig (pre i-series quad core with DDR2 RAM) with an 18 month old video card (nVidia GTX550Ti) and while the FPS is not at 60 while raiding the 20FPS I get is more than adequate. Sure, there are moments when the FPS goes to near zero, but those are exceptions. And as someone else mentioned ability lag is quite rare.

 

Just wanted to add to this. From launch up until 3 months ago I ran with this setup and only had FPS playability issues when doing Nightmare Pilgrim:

Core 2 DUO at 3.14 Ghz

4 GB DDR2

Nvidia 285 video card

 

6 year old rig. Your FPS issues are due to Some bad settings. Still should not happen with today's games, but easily fixed.

 

As I have said in other threads, people need to jettison the out of date metric of number of servers. Concurrent users online and net cash flow is what determines a "successful" MMO these days. Do not use 2002 measuring sticks.

[mcburly]

Isn't there:

Normal mode

Hard mode?

Isn't Hard Mode just called "Nightmare" instead?

 

Because I clearly forgot the silly names.

Either way, we did the most difficult one, period.

 

Sorry but if you dont remember the difficulty modes, you werent clearing content in any kind of HC raiding/ progression guild. Sounds to me like you did them a few times and called it quits

[Avicii]

It's why I cancelled my sub. Not enough hugs from my companions...and not enough stories with them, and no more indi class stories. I was here from before launch too, been subbed with no interruption since launch, and yeah, I've decide my wallet is going to start voting, by not letting any more money out into this, until they give people what they need.

 

Aside from dailies and crafting there's nothing left to do, and I'm not going to do any of that pvp crap, ground or aerial. Nty.

 

Out of curiosity what did you expect in a MMO? What do you do in WoW or Rift: dailies, instances, raid and PvP.

 

That's the MMO life.

 

People may want something different but currently this is the game they are adding things people like to do, good for them.

Complaining makes no sense to me. I left in July 2012 I was frustrated with the server merge BS being forced to move PST to EST or play in a dead server plus my friends bailed. I ended my sub told them why and bounced. I was vocal on the forum about the mishandling but not the game because I know what an MMO is. I just don't get why putting out negative energy constantly complaining like ReferaFriend/McJugs/Tor-Ihaveaunhappylife don't move on if you don't enjoy it. No one gives 2 ***** about your feelings or why you have sand in your vajaj. You will be happier in the end.

[mcburly]

As someone who has returned from a year+ being gone (I left just when GW2 came out), I can say this game has improved greatly. Yeah there are still some things that are bothersome but overall this game is fun. I enjoy it much more than GW2, that game is gorgeous but its boring, story sucks and auto attack makes combat dull. Ive played a few mmos since I left and after returning to this game I think its the best on the market.

 

I was also someone who was angry with the game when I left, thought Id never return. Now Im back and yeah the fanboy goggles arent on anymore but I have flirted with other games on the market and returned to this one skeptical but pleasantly surprised. Im ready to settle down with SWTOR now, I just wish I had the first time around because now I have to catch up

[TalkingDinosaur]

Yeah, I dunno man. I've been here since day 1....I've seen tremendous improvements in pretty much every aspect of the game.

Is it still buggy? yeah. FPS issue? I don't really have them except every now and then when wierd stuff happens...but that happens to me in WoW and GW2 just as often.

 

FYI, they didn't just remove servers, they are mega servers that hold 3-4 times as many players as the old one did. And there are 17 servers.

 

There is always a lot of room for improvement, but I've been enjoying this game a lot for 2 years now, and I've seen many things get addressed over time, even if not everything I would like to see.

 

Have you ever asked, why did the people stay that stayed? Hint: it's not because we're masochists or don't have other things to play.

Clearly because you are a blind fanboy and a worshiper of EA and the Devil. Or at least that is what a /v/irgin would conclude to.

[TOR-tanic]

putting out negative energy constantly complaining like ReferaFriend/McJugs/Tor-Ihaveaunhappylife

Haha, cute.

 

Edited December 9, 2013 by TOR-tanic