Premades in GSF

[-Shadowfist-]

GSF only allows a premade group of 4 in. So your quoted post is lying.

 

Queue 3 groups of 4 simultaneously. Not necessarily a lie. You'll either end up on the same team, opposing teams, or different matches; depending.

[RinbowDsh]

"Premades"... this has got to be one of the silliest complaints i have ever seen... why on earth would someone go into a team oriented game and complain about people forming teams, to complain about organized teams defeats the whole purpose of having a team oriented game...

they're called Wingmen for a reason and you have to trust your wingman will be there when you need them and not flying off in the opposite direction plying Lone Wolf McCloud completely ignoring any objective to increase their kill count... i often wish i had a squadron i could rely on as opposed to these reckless cowboys with no concept of strategy i keep getting stuck with in PuGs...

 

Pre-mades themselves should not be removed. However, the instant win pre-mades get from beating pug groups SHOULD be removed. For example, last night, I went 8 matches in a row, losing 1000 to less than 10, because pre-mades will always take all 3 objectives, and you can never take them back. They are also impossible to kill in a 1v1 dogfight, because the moment they get shot at, they will alert everyone within 20,000m, and you will get your *** raped by every enemy ship in the map. That's why the only solution is to match premades with premades. That way, the actual coordinated matches are still fair, and the people who don't want to bother to find people to work with still have a chance of winning. It took 9 straight queues to find a pre-made. It's not an exploit, in the sense that there is nothing blocking it. But they're still exploiting bioware's failure to isolate them.

[WillCaedes]

So because I organized my guild members who were interested in this style of PvP, then proceeded to encourage them to use our voice chat service we already use... I'm apparently doing GSF wrong?

 

Please explain to me why and how premades are bad in MMO's. I thought the whole point was to play as a team? Especially in PvP!

 

On a side-note...please consider how silly you would sound if you began to complain about pre-made Operation groups that you happen to pug into through queue finders.

[RinbowDsh]

So because I organized my guild members who were interested in this style of PvP, then proceeded to encourage them to use our voice chat service we already use... I'm apparently doing GSF wrong?

 

Please explain to me why and how premades are bad in MMO's. I thought the whole point was to play as a team? Especially in PvP!

 

On a side-note...please consider how silly you would sound if you began to complain about pre-made Operation groups that you happen to pug into through queue finders.

 

Again, my problem isn't with pre-mades. It's how badly Bioware implemented them. Pre-mades are obviously way more efficient than pub groups. The problem here is that Bioware queues pugs and pre-mades together. THAT is the problem.

[Grayseven]

Again, my problem isn't with pre-mades. It's how badly Bioware implemented them. Pre-mades are obviously way more efficient than pub groups. The problem here is that Bioware queues pugs and pre-mades together. THAT is the problem.

 

A pre-made will only have 4 people in it meaning that only 4 of the 8 to 12 people are "pre-made". Trying to sync drop in GSF is next to impossible. It can happen, but it is very rare.

 

Groups talking to one another will always have an advantage over groups working as individuals and nothing EA/BW can do will change that. They can't segregate groups from singles because there just aren't enough people queuing at any one time to allow it, which means that PUG's will have to stop acting like individuals and start acting like a team.

 

Even if you don't have active communication, you can talk to the other 3 people in your wing before the match and say "lets hit A and hold it for the duration" for example. Or perhaps you find 3 other people you know or have met who play GSF regularly and queue as a group yourself and set up a VOIP to use for the fight? Then you have the same advantage.

 

You can't expect EA/BW to penalize people who play together in a game designed around people playing together.

[Cashal]

I don't see (despite the OP's initial arguments) how premades are ruining GSF. . .

 

 

This seems like it's the exact same argument that we've had in Warzones or any MMO PvP since. . . the start.

[RinbowDsh]

I don't see (despite the OP's initial arguments) how premades are ruining GSF. . .

 

 

This seems like it's the exact same argument that we've had in Warzones or any MMO PvP since. . . the start.

 

You probably didn't have the night I had last night. I will repeat it, last night, I lost 8 matches in a row 1000-less than 10 because the enemy team was always obviously coordinating through a VOIP. It is completely impossible for pugs to beat people who can communicate instantly, and who are already prepared to help each other, as opposed to a pug group that has to type.

[Eldrenath]

Groups talking to one another will always have an advantage over groups working as individuals and nothing EA/BW can do will change that. They can't segregate groups from singles because there just aren't enough people queuing at any one time to allow it, which means that PUG's will have to stop acting like individuals and start acting like a team.

 

I have to say that your last statement, while fair, isn't realistic. Even a PUG that tries to run as a team simply can't compete if they don't have voice chat. GSF is simply too fast paced for it. You can't type a call for help in a dogfight, you'll get shot down instantly. If there are two groups of equal skill in every respect one with voice chat and one without, the team with voice chat will win almost every single time.

 

That being said, I am would not advocate for removing the ability to group up in a 4-person premade. That would be stupid. I run with guildies whenever I can, and if that ability were removed I'd be very disappointed indeed. After all, as many have correctly pointed out, MMOs are a team game. It would be nice if you could separate premades into a different queue, and I'd be for that. But as several people here have pointed out, doing so is not feasible. There aren't enough folks playing it yet, so if you did do this you'd just have queues that take who knows how long.

 

So what's the solution? Frankly, I don't think there is one at this point. It would be silly to disallow premades, and there aren't enough folks currently to separate them out. If in the future there WERE enough players to do that, I'd favor separate queues but I'm not holding my breath they will ever be developed even if there were the numbers to support them. I think this is precisely why BW has made it so you can't queue a group of 12--allowing only groups of 4 is a sort of compromise: it allows group/guild play while not allowing any guild to just completely dominate by fielding 12 players at once with voice comms against 12 random people without. I suppose it's a happy medium.

[Cashal]

You probably didn't have the night I had last night. I will repeat it, last night, I lost 8 matches in a row 1000-less than 10 because the enemy team was always obviously coordinating through a VOIP. It is completely impossible for pugs to beat people who can communicate instantly, and who are already prepared to help each other, as opposed to a pug group that has to type.

 

Yea? And I've had nights like then in every PVP MMO game I've played. . . They are all premades. When you throw in the fact that you might have a abundance of new players (And maybe Afkers) I'm sure it highlights the defeat.

[Cashal]

But hold on, this isn't a "NERF PREMADES NAAAAUW!!!" thread. This is a request for a function to help pug players communicate. Could bioware please include buttons 5-7 with the following simply voiceover broadcasts that everyone on your team gets "Node A being attacked", "Node B being attacked", "Node C being attacked". This would help a TON.

 

SOLVED:

Those Flashing Icons around the "Triangle" representing your node. and Even the triangle itself. . . When that is flashing, your Sat is under attack. That is your notification to get moving.

 

Best part is. This feature is already in the game and broadcasts to everyone!

 

*Edit* The "Additionally" section was not targeted at OP, but the prior posters response to me *End Edit*

Additionally:

 

I did a quick search on the forums for "Premade" . . . This issue has come up over and over again. I am not saying your point is valid/invalid . . . I just don't see how this specifically relates to GSF only.

 

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/search.php?searchid=4601482

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=705878&highlight=%22Premade%22

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=587947&highlight=%22Premade%22

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=700398&highlight=%22Premade%22

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=653970&highlight=%22Premade%22

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=637043&highlight=%22Premade%22

(The list goes on and on)

Edited December 27, 2013 by Cashal

[Armonddd]

If you're having trouble with premades, form your own. Even if you're not the best of pilots, you'll do better. But honestly, that's not the biggest draw. It's more fun to lose with buddies than win with randoms - that's how my guild was formed (well, minus the losing, but still).

[NotThatOne]

GSF only allows a premade group of 4 in. So your quoted post is lying.

 

Actually, it's not always the case, yes you can only queue with 4 players in a group, but if multiple groups queue at the same time, odds are they'll wind up int he same match.

[Danylia]

I did a quick search on the forums for "Premade" . . . This issue has come up over and over again. I am not saying your point is valid/invalid . . . I just don't see how this specifically relates to GSF only.

That's a valid point. The premade issue is evergreen, and any troubles with possible solutions in ground PVP will most likely be the same in GSF - aka, there is no easy solution.

One difference though (at least in my opinion, and feel free to call me wrong since I have minimal experience with ground PVP). In Warzones, Premade > PuG. In GSF, Premade >>> PuG.

[Armonddd]

One difference though (at least in my opinion, and feel free to call me wrong since I have minimal experience with ground PVP). In Warzones, Premade > PuG. In GSF, Premade >>> PuG.

 

I haven't touched warzones since the expansion hit, but this seems to me a natural side effect of a new format. Most people are going to learn it slowly, while the minority will quickly become skilled - and for some reason this minority is much more likely to form a premade. I dunno why, since voice chat turns bads into pros.

[DarthVindictus]

Coordinated play and team work being superior to random players playing randomly. Who would have guessed?

 

Come on guys... if there was ever an environment where coordinated play and teamwork should pay dividends to players... it's in squadron style play in free flight space combat.

 

This is the way it should be IMO. Play appropriate tactics and teamwork and thrive. GSF is not for rogue play IMO.

 

Most of the complaints lie in that people would LIKE to not have premades get put in the same games as pugs.

 

Chat as a forms of communication is 100% worthless and should frankly be removed from this format of PVP. It's no better than a distraction. If you're typing in chat you're not controlling your ship.

[MCaliban]

I like the idea of having single button activated vocal commands available...perhaps in the voice of the person that gives the pre-mission briefing?

 

Use the preference editor to allow people to keybind the various commands to unused GSF keys and have a series of options for the vocal cues.

 

It would be nice to be able to quickly coordinate attack and defense outside of voice chat since even pre-made groups are only half or a third of the total number of pilots in a match.

 

People are idiots and would spam their 'commands' to the group non-stop.

 

Last night, my team managed to grab all three sats at one point, and the dude at C decided his was the most important and so typed over and over that we had to come defend it. Instead of doing that, people (smartly) sat on their satellite and let C fall.

 

Dude spent the next ten minutes cussing us out in the chat and telling us to attack C, even though we had A and B and won the match.

 

Imagine if he had a single key he could push to issue a voice command.

[Grayseven]

People are idiots and would spam their 'commands' to the group non-stop.

 

Last night, my team managed to grab all three sats at one point, and the dude at C decided his was the most important and so typed over and over that we had to come defend it. Instead of doing that, people (smartly) sat on their satellite and let C fall.

 

Dude spent the next ten minutes cussing us out in the chat and telling us to attack C, even though we had A and B and won the match.

 

Imagine if he had a single key he could push to issue a voice command.

 

Would then be a simple matter to limit commands with a cooldown, much like special abilities. Voice commands allowed once per minute would still be better than no commands at all.

[DEATHICIDE]

I think there should be a ranked, and unranked Q just like warzones, and if you want to play in a pre-made you must play ranked.

 

The trend to solve ones lack of skill is to get on headsets, call out individual players names and gang stomp them one by one.

 

Whats the counter to this? Getting your own headset group and doing the same.

Well no thank-you.

 

I have a problem with this, and find it a game wrecker, as a solo player who's not really into this guild family stuff.

I do not have a problem with teams on headsets, just when it is against random players trying to play solo.

 

I'm not one to complain much, but I really am not having fun in constant 4vs1 dogfights, and am sure that is not the experience I am willing to continue paying for.

 

If the big answer here is the standard "well don't play a team based MMO then", perhaps I may take the advice come April.

 

I'm a founder, and continuous subscriber, though my experience is gradually being tainted by players who don't pay, players who farm credits, and now that the feature I'm most excited about is here, I'm being forced to team up on a headset or deal with it, when I have always been a solo player and do not want to do any 3rd party team headset junk.

 

Yes, I am "bu**-hurt, no need to mock me (but go ahead), it's my 2 cents though...

[Armonddd]

I have a problem with this, and find it a game wrecker, as a solo player who's not really into this guild family stuff.

I do not have a problem with teams on headsets, just when it is against random players trying to play solo.

 

I am also largely a solo player. When I picked up the game at launch, I ignored guilds and groups entirely, just like I had done in many other games previously. I have some measure of social anxiety - in real life I have trouble looking people in the eyes (among other things) because I'm afraid of them judging me. I have similar fears of being judged for poor performance in group settings, and since I didn't (and still don't) know the ground game very well, I found playing solo to be simpler and more fun. After all, games are all about fun.

 

I resubbed to give GSF a try, and I loved it. I had something like a 50-50 win-loss ratio pugging matches. On the second night, sometime around midnight, I noticed the same good players in each match with me. Someone sent out invites, and I figured, well, why not try breaking the mold? We hopped on a stolen vent and laughed away the next few hours of matches. I had a blast, even though I was honestly planning to make my excuses and go to bed after the first match. I'm glad I didn't, though, because if I had I wouldn't be co-leader of the world's best GSF guild.

 

Moral of the story: stick your neck out, try new things. You might be surprised at how little you dislike them.

[-KeggER-]

I am also largely a solo player. When I picked up the game at launch, I ignored guilds and groups entirely, just like I had done in many other games previously. I have some measure of social anxiety - in real life I have trouble looking people in the eyes (among other things) because I'm afraid of them judging me. I have similar fears of being judged for poor performance in group settings, and since I didn't (and still don't) know the ground game very well, I found playing solo to be simpler and more fun. After all, games are all about fun.

 

I resubbed to give GSF a try, and I loved it. I had something like a 50-50 win-loss ratio pugging matches. On the second night, sometime around midnight, I noticed the same good players in each match with me. Someone sent out invites, and I figured, well, why not try breaking the mold? We hopped on a stolen vent and laughed away the next few hours of matches. I had a blast, even though I was honestly planning to make my excuses and go to bed after the first match. I'm glad I didn't, though, because if I had I wouldn't be co-leader of the world's best GSF guild.

 

Moral of the story: stick your neck out, try new things. You might be surprised at how little you dislike them.

 

Which guild would that be?

[Armonddd]

Which guild would that be?

 

Minion, you are forgiven this once for your insubordination. Do not test me again.

[-KeggER-]

Minion, you are forgiven this once for your insubordination. Do not test me again.

 

You did get an B on your test, but +10 extra credit for finally making your sig

[Lymain]

One difference though (at least in my opinion, and feel free to call me wrong since I have minimal experience with ground PVP). In Warzones, Premade > PuG. In GSF, Premade >>> PuG.

 

There's not really any difference. Bad premades lose to pugs, good premades completely dominate pugs...in both ground and space.

[Armonddd]

You did get an B on your test, but +10 extra credit for finally making your sig

 

Oh, sweet, 90 points is an A. I'll take it. (Also, sigs are hard on phone, my bad.)

[DEATHICIDE]

I am also largely a solo player. When I picked up the game at launch, I ignored guilds and groups entirely, just like I had done in many other games previously. I have some measure of social anxiety - in real life I have trouble looking people in the eyes (among other things) because I'm afraid of them judging me. I have similar fears of being judged for poor performance in group settings, and since I didn't (and still don't) know the ground game very well, I found playing solo to be simpler and more fun. After all, games are all about fun.

 

I resubbed to give GSF a try, and I loved it. I had something like a 50-50 win-loss ratio pugging matches. On the second night, sometime around midnight, I noticed the same good players in each match with me. Someone sent out invites, and I figured, well, why not try breaking the mold? We hopped on a stolen vent and laughed away the next few hours of matches. I had a blast, even though I was honestly planning to make my excuses and go to bed after the first match. I'm glad I didn't, though, because if I had I wouldn't be co-leader of the world's best GSF guild.

 

Moral of the story: stick your neck out, try new things. You might be surprised at how little you dislike them.

 

Thanks for the reply, and I appreciate your sharing of a somewhat touchy issue.

 

I will tell you that I know where you are coming from, as I am a rather large fellow, was told id be in the WWF or basketball growing up in school by the adults, but was ridiculed constantly by all my peers for being twice their size, and had no friends so I know the issues, but after highschool, all that went away for me, because grown up people aren't immature enough to make fun of someone or put them down for being taller than they are. That and as I became an adult my growth stopped enough that there are others taller than myself around so im not quite the giant everyone thought I would be, just a real tall guy haha.

 

My issue with gaming is, I do not want to have to greet random people as they come on and offline, I don't want to be tied to my headset, and I do not want to play gang warfare vs unsuspecting pug players.

I find it effortless, cheap, boring, and well not as fun as strapping in and going guns blazing on my own, which is where I shine.

 

I will go on a headset, sometimes it's almost required to beat certain ops (looks at denova and DP) but using it for the purpose to gain an advantage in any sort of PvP?

 

Not unless everyone in the entire match is tied to a headset, and if that were the case, more often than not, I would opt for something else that was solo.

 

End of the day, I still want groups tied to a ranked queue, or a team only Q, whatever you want to call it, just keep em outta pugs because it is ruining the game foir solo players and we pay to play as well.