Remove CC cost for Fleet Req conversion

[Cessna_X]

Desipite what Michael Backus would have us believe, selling Fleet Requisition for CC is so pay-to-win. Not to mention being a complete, greedy, money grab. Before you start on how they need to make money somehow, remember they are also selling passes and ships. Which is all that they should be doing.

 

But hang on, why aren't passes pay-to-win? Because a pass just brings you up to subscriber level. There's a set cap to the benefit. If you buy 600 passes, you don't get any more currency than someone who just bought one pass.

 

The problem with the currency conversion is there is no such cap. If you spend 6,000 CC on currency conversion, you get far more currency than someone who only spent 200 CC. The more you pay, the more you get. And since having more currency is directly related to having more gear which is related to better chance of winning, it follows that the more you pay, the better chance you have of winning.

 

Payment ∝ Currency

Currency ∝ Gear

Gear ∝ Winning

 

Therefore:

Payment ∝ Winning

 

You could argue that this is limited by the amount of time you put in. This is true; however, the amount of time spent is a limiting factor regardless of whether you pay or not. In other words, if two people spend the same amount of time, but one of them pays, the one who paid will always have a greater advantage.

 

Additionally, please note, I'm saying payment is related to winning, not equal. Skill is also related to winning, and it is related much more closely. The relationship between payment and winning is not game-breaking, but it is there. It shouldn't be.

 

There is no CC cost to convert WZ comms into RWZ comms in ground PvP. Why should it be different for space PvP?

 

Remove the CC cost for Fleet Requisition conversion. If not across the board, then at least remove it for subscribers.

[fleshtaker]

the CC part of this xpac is totally pay to win if you buy all the ships offthe cartel shop u get more points for finishing dailies weeklies it goes off how many different ships you have to if you buy the ships off the cartel you are infact earning more comms than someone who doesn't spend money on cartel coins even tho we both pay the same subscription fee and I was assured swtor was never going to be pay to win and after a few short months of free2play its gone pay to win whats next end game raid gear for 2k comms?

[FridgeLM]

dumb stuff

 

You literally have no idea what you're talking about and your post is tedious hostile nonsense.

 

Req conversion does not generate req out of the ether. It's req you already earned - it translates to pay to grind more efficiently, something that is present in every aspect of F2P already in the form of boosted xp and content restrictions like warzones and ops. If you're using cc to convert req for any reason other than to buy a new ship you actually come out behind someone who just flies the ship they want to upgrade and earn req for it that way - upgraded ships are always more effective than newly-bought ship variants. The only scenario where this isn't the case is in the event of the daily and weekly bonuses that give req to every ship you own

 

This is not to mention the conversion cc price is unbelievably cheap. I have 6717 ship req on my Quell. If I convert 6700 of it it costs a whopping 268 cc.

 

Hardly breaking anyone's bank - and 1700 more fleet req than any ship in the game currently costs.

[Cessna_X]

You literally have no idea what you're talking about and your post is tedious hostile nonsense.

 

Req conversion does not generate req out of the ether. It's req you already earned - it translates to pay to grind more efficiently, something that is present in every aspect of F2P already in the form of boosted xp and content restrictions like warzones and ops. If you're using cc to convert req for any reason other than to buy a new ship you actually come out behind someone who just flies the ship they want to upgrade and earn req for it that way - upgraded ships are always more effective than newly-bought ship variants. The only scenario where this isn't the case is in the event of the daily and weekly bonuses that give req to every ship you own

 

This is not to mention the conversion cc price is unbelievably cheap. I have 6717 ship req on my Quell. If I convert 6700 of it it costs a whopping 268 cc.

 

Hardly breaking anyone's bank - and 1700 more fleet req than any ship in the game currently costs.

 

So clearly, you didn't bother to actually read my post. Or you just didn't understand. Either way, I find it ironic that you say I have no idea what I'm talking about.

 

I'm not saying that Req is generated in the conversion. In fact, I believe the ratio is less than 1:1, so you could even say that Req is lost. What you're missing is that value is generated in the conversion. Because Fleet Req is harder to obtain than Ship Req, Fleet Req is worth more. This value comes from the CC you input.

 

Yes, the reduced ratio mitigates this. And it is true that indirect conversion of payment to winning is nothing new.

 

In retrospect, I suppose I'm fighting an already lost battle, and this thread is really more of an expression of a hopeful ideal than a realistic petition.

[FridgeLM]

I'm not saying that Req is generated in the conversion.

 

If you spend 6,000 CC on currency conversion, you get far more currency than someone who only spent 200 CC. The more you pay, the more you get. And since having more currency is directly related to having more gear which is related to better chance of winning, it follows that the more you pay, the better chance you have of winning

 

Implies that spending CC generates currency that will make you win.

 

In fact, I believe the ratio is less than 1:1, so you could even say that Req is lost.

 

Wrong.

 

What you're missing is that value is generated in the conversion. Because Fleet Req is harder to obtain than Ship Req, Fleet Req is worth more. This value comes from the CC you input.

 

Except fleet req is worth less if you're using it to upgrade ships. Fleet req's value lies in its ability to purchase ships and its ability to be applied to any ship in one's fleet. It is otherwise no more valuable than ship req, and thus is not analogous to unranked and ranked WZ comms. If your goal is to upgrade a particular ship, you're stupid if you do anything but fly that particular ship to earn ship req for it. Flying something else and spending cc to convert it so you can upgrade the first ship is literally throwing money away for no benefit.

 

In retrospect, I suppose I'm fighting an already lost battle, and this thread is really more of an expression of a hopeful ideal than a realistic petition.

 

You're complaining about something entirely pointless, yes, inasmuch as:

 

1) matchmaking is based on component upgrades in your fleet

2) any player, no matter how terrible, can eventually reach full upgrades in any ship they want, making the component progression a grind rather than a reward for skill, unlike, for example, PvE gear in the ground game

[Cessna_X]

Implies that spending CC generates currency that will make you win.

Again, please read my entire post. I'm not saying it will make you win, I'm saying it improves your chances (by a small and easily negligible amount).

 

Wrong.

If I am indeed wrong about the conversion rate, you do realise that strengthens my point, right?

 

Except fleet req is worth less if you're using it to upgrade ships. [...] Flying something else and spending cc to convert it so you can upgrade the first ship is literally throwing money away for no benefit.

The idea that was specifically stated by BioWare is to fly a maxed-out ship (which generates more req than a stock ship, supposedly), then pay CC to convert the Ship Req to Fleet Req and "twink" (literally the word they used) another ship. Which, is by definition, pay-to-win.

 

I do, however, concede that this pay-to-win has negligible effect and my complaint is ultimately futile.

[Polly_Pocket]

I agree this conversion should be removed from the game entirely.

[FridgeLM]

The idea that was specifically stated by BioWare is to fly a maxed-out ship (which generates more req than a stock ship, supposedly), then pay CC to convert the Ship Req to Fleet Req and "twink" (literally the word they used) another ship. Which, is by definition, pay-to-win.

 

Not seeing where the winning is coming in. It's pay to grind less, which is literally identical to most of the F2P implementation in this and other games.

[Cessna_X]

Not seeing where the winning is coming in. It's pay to grind less, which is literally identical to most of the F2P implementation in this and other games.

It's not exactly winning, but getting better gear, which improves your chances of winning.

 

Of course with the bracket system, the effect of gear is negligible. There is still an effect, though, however small. Because you can indirectly obtain that effect through the use of CC, it is in principle pay-to-win. It would be nice not to have such a system, but it's too profitable with effects too miniscule such that it's highly unlikely BW/EA will repeal it. It doesn't hurt to try, though, right?

[Atamasama]

It's not exactly winning, but getting better gear, which improves your chances of winning.

It doesn't get you "better" gear, you get the same gear you'd get without it. You just get it faster. It's the same as buying a buff off the Cartel that gives you an XP boost. It just lets you get the same thing in less time, it doesn't unlock something you'd otherwise be unable to get. So it's not at all what you're claiming it is.

[Hitomo_x]

Not seeing where the winning is coming in. It's pay to grind less, which is literally identical to most of the F2P implementation in this and other games.

 

yeah, all free to Play games are pay to win, thats how they make their Money

I have no Problem with this ... deal with it

[CommanderKeeva]

yeah, all free to Play games are pay to win, thats how they make their Money

I have no Problem with this ... deal with it

 

Really this is a stupid, blatant, greedy money grab. We shouldn't pay real-life money above our damn subscription. I'm not saying that they should remove the CC option, but at least allow subscribers to do the same with credits! F2P could still buy Cartel Coins to convert req.

 

Would it be okay if you could convert Elite Comms into Ultimate Comms with CC? Would it be okay if you could convert Arkanian tokens into Underworld and Underworld tokens into Dread Forged? Surely it wouldn't be pay-to-win because other methods exist to get said tokens, even if it meant months and months of farming HM Operations.

 

Similarly, either allow subscribers to convert requisition with credits or remove the conversion option altogether. I don't like the direction the game is taking, edging on the boundary of pay-to-win.

Edited December 4, 2013 by CommanderKeeva

[Kombatikon]

Get the fk OVA IT man there some nagging *****es around if u want to p2p so be it if you dont DONT and if you wana buy boosts buy them grrrrr these types of psts are ******** dude

[Stongrel]

Get the fk OVA IT man there some nagging *****es around if u want to p2p so be it if you dont DONT and if you wana buy boosts buy them grrrrr these types of psts are ******** dude

Someone translate this for me.

[AMightyKnight]

Really this is a stupid, blatant, greedy money grab. We shouldn't pay real-life money above our damn subscription. I'm not saying that they should remove the CC option, but at least allow subscribers to do the same with credits! F2P could still buy Cartel Coins to convert req.

 

Would it be okay if you could convert Elite Comms into Ultimate Comms with CC? Would it be okay if you could convert Arkanian tokens into Underworld and Underworld tokens into Dread Forged? Surely it wouldn't be pay-to-win because other methods exist to get said tokens, even if it meant months and months of farming HM Operations.

The difference is that Fleet Req will be worthless within a couple of weeks. You only really need Fleet Req to buy ships and companions. Once you got what you want you only need Ship Req to upgrade your ships. So what if you can convert ShipRed to FleetReq for CC. Transfering ShipReq earned on Ship A to Fleet Req in order to ugprade Ship B is just plain stupid. Its much more efficient to just fly Ship B and earn ShipReq.

 

So sure, you can pay, but wheres the winning part? I dont see it.

[archifikoss]

- Convert your initial ship req to fleet req

- Unlock ships

- Find the ship that suits your playstyle most

- Upgrade it with ship req that cannot be converted via CC

- Good times are had by all

 

 

Not really pay-to-win IMO, unless those CC-unlocked ships I noticed (not the type 2's of the strike and scout) are downright superior to the "regular" ships.

[Celwinn]

- Convert your initial ship req to fleet req

- Unlock ships

- Find the ship that suits your playstyle most

- Upgrade it with ship req that cannot be converted via CC

- Good times are had by all

 

 

Not really pay-to-win IMO, unless those CC-unlocked ships I noticed (not the type 2's of the strike and scout) are downright superior to the "regular" ships.

 

It's not that they are downright superior, it's that they add an increase to your FR gain.

 

Now, this isn't your typical pay-2-win element but it definitely borderlines that line.

[archifikoss]

It's not that they are downright superior, it's that they add an increase to your FR gain.

 

Now, this isn't your typical pay-2-win element but it definitely borderlines that line.

 

OK I see what you mean. It does walk a fine line I guess but I'm not convinced that it's as bad as some people find it. Not saying they're wrong and I'm right, it's just my opinion. It could change in the future with more GS experience under my belt, we'll see!

[Celwinn]

OK I see what you mean. It does walk a fine line I guess but I'm not convinced that it's as bad as some people find it. Not saying they're wrong and I'm right, it's just my opinion. It could change in the future with more GS experience under my belt, we'll see!

 

Of course.

 

This isn't a full blown pay to win element, but at the same time, it's not free (in the sense of grinding).

 

I realize they want to cut down on the grinding (which I am all for). They just need to find the balance between the two, which IMO, they have became closer in GSF.

[elstaar]

this reminds me of Aion model, they have similar items for sale, like unbind BOP items passes etc. but well, Aion is completely free to play (no restrictions on NA server), and there we have subscription... Edited December 4, 2013 by elstaar

[Celwinn]

this reminds me of Aion model, they have similar items for sale, like unbind BOP items passes etc. but well, Aion is completely free to play (no restrictions on NA server), and there we have subscription...

 

Aion is a Korean based game.

 

What else did you expect?

[Hodsy]

By converting your Req all you will achieve is fast upgrades...That's it!

 

in a week or so normal player will have maxed out there upgrades also...So its hardly game breaking or paying to win. You are simply paying to gear faster.

 

Also as stated on the news later that came out 2/12/13 each player is placed in the same match equal to there skill/gear.

 

I personally like it as not everyone can spend 5-10 hour a day grinding ship reqs to get maxed out upgrades.

 

Also anything to help support the game is a bonus. If you wanna pay real money to get something faster...be my guest

[valeita]

/signed

[Vhaegrant]

I get really tired of these money grabbing comments. EA is a business and businesses exist to make profit. Of course they are going to charge you at some point.

 

As to Pay-to-Win. My definition of P-2-W is something you purchase for cash that is more powerful than anything that can be earned with time in game.

 

The most currently valid model of monetizing a Free-2-Play game is making currency act as a convenience factor eliminating some of the need to 'grind'. Those with time on their hands can play to earn and those with a larger disposable income can pay to earn but at the end of the day the end power levels will be the same.

 

I can't help but feel that the OP and many others that make this comment are a little bent out of shape that they can't max out their first ship and dominate while building up requisition to dump on their next ship so they never have to step into a default ship again.

Personally that feels like someone in the ground game levelling up to 55 in Sniper and then asking to be able to reserve all that wasted xp from dailies so they can dump it on their next character so they don't have to level it.

[CommanderKeeva]

The difference is that Fleet Req will be worthless within a couple of weeks. You only really need Fleet Req to buy ships and companions. Once you got what you want you only need Ship Req to upgrade your ships. So what if you can convert ShipRed to FleetReq for CC. Transfering ShipReq earned on Ship A to Fleet Req in order to ugprade Ship B is just plain stupid. Its much more efficient to just fly Ship B and earn ShipReq.

 

So sure, you can pay, but wheres the winning part? I dont see it.

 

Even so, why can't they allow subscribers to do so with credits? I'm sick and tired of them forcing their Cartel Coins on us. Yeah, I agree, it's not gamebreaking, but it's annoying me very much on principle. The same that they're demanding Cartel Coins for using the Appearance Customization Vendor.