Hardmode queue time!

[tomhjen]

When is Bioware going to address this? It is silly that a DPS have to sit 30-45min in a queue for a hardmode, and 50% of the time the tank leave the party, and you have to requeue.

[Infernixx]

When is Bioware going to address this? It is silly that a DPS have to sit 30-45min in a queue for a hardmode, and 50% of the time the tank leave the party, and you have to requeue.

 

What do you suggest they do? Force Tanks and Heals to queue up at least 5 times a day or face account suspension?

[Andryah]

When is Bioware going to address this? It is silly that a DPS have to sit 30-45min in a queue for a hardmode, and 50% of the time the tank leave the party, and you have to requeue.

 

How exactly does an MMO company address bad DPS, playing badly, such that tanks drop from group?

 

How exactly does and MMO company address bad DPS being on a tanks /ignore list OR tanks not wanting to random PUG with bad DPS?

 

When did an MMO company become a social welfare state for DPS?

Edited December 1, 2013 by Andryah

[KarmaForce]

How exactly does an MMO company address bad DPS, playing badly, such that tanks drop from group?

 

How exactly does and MMO company address bad DPS being on a tanks /ignore list OR tanks not wanting to random PUG with bad DPS?

 

When did an MMO company become a social welfare state for DPS?

 

Sounds like someone plays a stuck up tank.

I missed the part where dps was a problem....

 

Problem is the low number of tanks that stick with it to a HM FP. Also, with it being so easy to cap comms, a lot of people are skipping those quests.

 

The game needs to do ops better job of preparing tanks for end game

[JPryde]

Problem is the low number of tanks that stick with it to a HM FP. Also, with it being so easy to cap comms, a lot of people are skipping those quests.

Personally I am not skipping those missions on my tank chars, but I limit myself mostly to my guild. That way I can ensure, that my guildies are getting a tank knowing his job and I know that I will get a healer and 2 DDs who will not cause me to wipe. (Same for my healer chars... my DDs however are skipping the missions )

 

Bioware cannot do anything to make me play with strangers (more).

[CrazyGreggy]

Ask yourself "why did the tank drop group?". Was it because they had a RL emergency and had to go or maybe it was because one of the dps decided to pull a pack of mobs and leave the tank scrabbling to pick up aggro on mobs that have now scattered from their starting position? If the latter, put yourself in the tank's shoes. Packs of mobs start close enough together that the majority, if not all, can be hit with Mortar Volley, Slow Time or Force Sweep, thus gaining instant aggro on the pack. A pack that's moving towards the sentard that used double sabre throw is not quite so easy to gather up.

 

If you see a 50% drop rate of tanks, then examine your own behaviour and consider whether YOU are the reason they're leaving. If not, you're either unlucky or exaggerating.

[Njordulfr]

If you don't wanna wait, then you roll a healer or tank and learn how to play the role/class right.

DD is the most common role, that's why it takes them such a long time to find them a group.

 

And if Tanks/Healers add to you to ignore list it much much worse, but it's up to each player to learn how to play the class well. It is sad to see DDs on Oricon that still have no clue what the interruption skill is for.

 

Funny side note: Last night I did Directive 7 and the other DD was this Marauder who, according to the player, was specialised in tanking. I can tell you it didn't go that well...

[tomhjen]

In other games when the number of tanks is so low that it take almost a hour for a DPS to get a group, they have a bonus system for tanks to try and make more tanks for hardmodes and that works great.

 

And i do play a tank, and i do hardmodes on my vanguard alot, i don't even need to do any. But everyday i do many hardmodes with people asking for tanks in fleet so they can get their daylie quests done. And many from my guild does it too, but we also have DPS alt's that we want to get the daylie quests done on and gear up. But it is hard doing it at when you have to wait a hour just to get a group, and when you finally get one, the tank leaves without saying a word, and it almost always happens when Atise comes up.

 

PS. The tanks don't leave because of bad DPS or anything, they leave before they enter it. So you can't really blame anyone but them.

Edited December 2, 2013 by tomhjen

[DarthTHC]

How exactly does an MMO company address bad DPS, playing badly, such that tanks drop from group?

 

How exactly does and MMO company address bad DPS being on a tanks /ignore list OR tanks not wanting to random PUG with bad DPS?

 

When did an MMO company become a social welfare state for DPS?

 

By enabling those bad DPS to roll tanks so they can learn how to DPS better (really, it works!) or queue faster. It's a shame that the devs wrote the code to prevent bad DPS's from rolling tanks. Game sucks.

 

Oh... wait...

 

Problem is the low number of tanks that stick with it to a HM FP.

 

One might ask oneself, "Self, why do we think tanks are dropping out of HM FP's before finishing them?"

Edited December 2, 2013 by DarthTHC

[slafko]

Sounds like someone plays a stuck up tank.

 

Sounds like a very realistic and reasonable tank to me.

[Never_Hesitate]

I missed the part where dps was a problem....

 

Problem is the low number of tanks that stick with it to a HM FP. Also, with it being so easy to cap comms, a lot of people are skipping those quests.

 

This can be told in reverse:

I missed the part where the tanks/heals were the problem...

 

Problem is the high number of fail dps that play this game and the low number of good dps.

[morfius]

When is Bioware going to address this? It is silly that a DPS have to sit 30-45min in a queue for a hardmode, and 50% of the time the tank leave the party, and you have to requeue.

 

Never I suppose... and I hope if they try to not mess like Blizzard with cross servers queues.

Also BW already stated that they love their tanking players punishment with double grind (or it was - we don't want you to gear too fast - so we will do it actually twice longer and slower than any DPS).

 

There is only one thing that can possibly (community is what actually matter with pugging) bring some tanks/healers back to pugs - tanking/healing reward box for daily HM FP that contain an Arcanium non lettered mod or enhancement with proper stats for role and class.

And it is still exploitable - because I could use GF with full group ...

[tomhjen]

I never said that the tanks left mid way trough a flashpoint, they leave before they even enter after seeing what flashpoint that came up, and yesterday was a really bad day. I tried to get my daylie done and it took the whole day. Tank after tank left the flashpoints even before entering them. So anyone who now say that the DPS or the healer is just silly.

[DarthTHC]

I never said that the tanks left mid way trough a flashpoint, they leave before they even enter after seeing what flashpoint that came up, and yesterday was a really bad day. I tried to get my daylie done and it took the whole day. Tank after tank left the flashpoints even before entering them. So anyone who now say that the DPS or the healer is just silly.

 

Oh I see. There must be a particular flashpoint that brings out the worst in DPS, so the tank knows ahead of time it's going to be a waste of time?

 

Which flashpoint is that anyway and what do DPS consistently do wrong in it?

[Aiobhill]

I never said that the tanks left mid way trough a flashpoint, they leave before they even enter after seeing what flashpoint that came up, and yesterday was a really bad day. I tried to get my daylie done and it took the whole day. Tank after tank left the flashpoints even before entering them. So anyone who now say that the DPS or the healer is just silly.

 

Recently - with my healer - I left a 55 HM right at the start, after apologizing. I am overgeared for that content, the tank was even better equipped, but we ended up with one dps with 21k health and the other 20; one mostly leveling greens, the other sporting some shiny blue lev 50 stuff.

 

I don't mind explaining stuff, I don't mind a wipe or two, I don't mind carrying undergeared people, but when a FP promises to be a very lengthy and frustrating experience, it's just not worth my time. If the DPS cba to spend an hour on Oricon or even in front of the auction house to get reasonable gear, I will no longer spend an hour wiping with them.

 

Compared to other games, the vast majority of people you meet in PUGs and finder are mature and courteous. Still I see a reason for queues getting longer.

[HBCentaurion]

I concur with the rest of the peeps in this thread.

 

I did a HM FP with the guild the other day, and that was my only HM FP in 4-5 months. For me there is no incentive to PUG HM FPs - my toon is in BiS 78s / 75s and the thought of doing HM FPs with retarded DDs just makes me cringe. I remember one Athiss run where this DD with 19k health kept running ahead pulling every single mob because he wanted to do the bonus. This was after I explained that we don't need to kill every single mob for the bonus, just those on our path. *facepalm*

 

Never again!

Edited December 2, 2013 by HBCentaurion

[tomhjen]

Recently - with my healer - I left a 55 HM right at the start, after apologizing. I am overgeared for that content, the tank was even better equipped, but we ended up with one dps with 21k health and the other 20; one mostly leveling greens, the other sporting some shiny blue lev 50 stuff.

 

I don't mind explaining stuff, I don't mind a wipe or two, I don't mind carrying undergeared people, but when a FP promises to be a very lengthy and frustrating experience, it's just not worth my time. If the DPS cba to spend an hour on Oricon or even in front of the auction house to get reasonable gear, I will no longer spend an hour wiping with them.

 

Compared to other games, the vast majority of people you meet in PUGs and finder are mature and courteous. Still I see a reason for queues getting longer.

 

If every tank did what you do, non would be able to gear up. I do agree tho with people being lazy trying to get a little better gear before starting doing hardmodes. But that is not always the case, in fact i only been on one group where people where really undergeared. But still, the hardmodes is not that hard at all. When i hit 55 with my vanguard i tanked the hardmodes in 146 gear easy, with my farm group being on the same gear level. So gear is not everything, and just because you see someone with 20k HP don't mean that they can't do the content. We even did SV and TFB(55) in that gear, with a few random hardmode drops on

[morfius]

If every tank did what you do, non would be able to gear up. I do agree tho with people being lazy trying to get a little better gear before starting doing hardmodes. But that is not always the case, in fact i only been on one group where people where really undergeared. But still, the hardmodes is not that hard at all. When i hit 55 with my vanguard i tanked the hardmodes in 146 gear easy, with my farm group being on the same gear level. So gear is not everything, and just because you see someone with 20k HP don't mean that they can't do the content. We even did SV and TFB(55) in that gear, with a few random hardmode drops on

 

146 is 66s gear if I remember numbers correctly - CZ & Oricon quest ones with 2 53 level crafted or drop implants + crafted earpiece = 22 - 25K HP

Pre-made group with good coordination can even make 55 HM FPs in 61 gear, PuG with it = wipe fest.

So if you want to gear properly - do some dailies (CZ & Oricon once = full or almost full set of 66s) instead being lazy and relying on other players to carry you.

If you instead force your laziness over other - they could force their on you - therefore cancel group.

[lordspyder]

All I know is I find it really hard to bring my self to queue for a flashpoint these days on any of my tank characters. The pool of DPS seems to be really bad and rude. I ask for them not to pull, they still do, I ask again they start getting nasty. I have a mile long list of DPS on ignore. It is absolutely insane. I love this game, I really do, but I'm thinking of moving on all together because of this.

[morfius]

All I know is I find it really hard to bring my self to queue for a flashpoint these days on any of my tank characters. The pool of DPS seems to be really bad and rude. I ask for them not to pull, they still do, I ask again they start getting nasty. I have a mile long list of DPS on ignore. It is absolutely insane. I love this game, I really do, but I'm thinking of moving on all together because of this.

 

It will be same on any MMO... been there, done that.

Pew pew is so easy, most of them never learn what CC is and how to get around it, what exactly this interrupt is used for, what to do if mob (basic one mostly) run to healer, where to stun, not to pull in amok & so on.

Last but not least most of them never learn that this is not WoW in space ... not all mobs are tank work here, in many cases dps has actually to burn/stun/interrupt some adds before even hit big ones tank keep.

[DarthTHC]

I ran a lot of flash points this weekend and I saw the whole range of ID-10T DPS.

 

I saw DPS that ran ahead and pulled after being told multiple times not to. Vote kick.

 

I saw DPS who rolled need on everything. Vote kick.

 

I saw Shadow DPS who didn't even know how to get into stealth. Then when they figured it out, they still couldn't figure out how to mez and instead aggro'd the target. Somehow this one didn't get vote kicked.

 

I saw DPS queueing as tanks. Vote kick.

 

I saw DPS who thought the CC'd target should always be the first to be attacked, again after being told multiple times not to. Vote kick.

 

DPS complain that their queues are long? Gee, I wonder why...

Edited December 2, 2013 by DarthTHC

[JPryde]

I ran a lot of flash points this weekend and I saw the whole range of ID-10T DPS.

[...]

DPS complain that their queues are long? Gee, I wonder why...

On the other hand, I saw DDs in DD gear queue as tanks, who even refused to switch to tank stance, claiming that "it will work". They obviously did so to get a faster queue time, bypassing all the legit waiting DDs.

 

And such behaviour would only become a lot more common, if tanks would get extra rewards. You would hardly attract real tanks with it, as we seriously do not need more commendations. I reach the weekly cap easily anyway. I swim in credits. I am capped on social X. ...

Instead you would attract a lot more DDs of the "switchable" classes, who are allowed to sign as tank... cause the system does not check for any tank equipment or experience.. how could it.

 

So instead of getting no FP, you would get a lot faster into a FP... but it wouldn't be fun.

[morfius]

On the other hand, I saw DDs in DD gear queue as tanks, who even refused to switch to tank stance, claiming that "it will work". They obviously did so to get a faster queue time, bypassing all the legit waiting DDs.

 

And such behaviour would only become a lot more common, if tanks would get extra rewards. You would hardly attract real tanks with it, as we seriously do not need more commendations. I reach the weekly cap easily anyway. I swim in credits. I am capped on social X. ...

Instead you would attract a lot more DDs of the "switchable" classes, who are allowed to sign as tank... cause the system does not check for any tank equipment or experience.. how could it.

 

So instead of getting no FP, you would get a lot faster into a FP... but it wouldn't be fun.

 

Vote-kick ...

[DarthTHC]

On the other hand, I saw DDs in DD gear queue as tanks, who even refused to switch to tank stance, claiming that "it will work". They obviously did so to get a faster queue time, bypassing all the legit waiting DDs.

 

And such behaviour would only become a lot more common, if tanks would get extra rewards. You would hardly attract real tanks with it, as we seriously do not need more commendations. I reach the weekly cap easily anyway. I swim in credits. I am capped on social X. ...

Instead you would attract a lot more DDs of the "switchable" classes, who are allowed to sign as tank... cause the system does not check for any tank equipment or experience.. how could it.

 

So instead of getting no FP, you would get a lot faster into a FP... but it wouldn't be fun.

 

Exactly.

 

My point wasn't to give more rewards to tanks. My point is that DD's need to learn the absolute basics of how to behave and play properly in a flash point.

 

Maybe there should be a course with tests and stuff before they're allowed to queue. Now THAT would be a code enhancement worth its time in gold!

Edited December 2, 2013 by DarthTHC

[jedip_enguin]

This is nothing to do with Bioware, and all about players and their preferred play styles.

 

DPS is always the most common role within a trinity game, as it carries almost no responsibility and is ideally suited for fast levelling/soloing, meaning dps outnumber tanks healers by about 4:1.

 

Couple this with the fact that a significant portion of the dps population are functionally retarded, and the fact that people are far more likely to blame a tank/healer for failures within a group setting and you can see why most tanks only do as many FP's a week as they need and usually within all guild groups to cut down on the moron factor.

 

The only way this could be really be remedied would be to somehow incentivise tanks/healers to queue more often by offering an enhanced amount of comms (or a higher cap) or cash, but then dps would complain that tanks/healers have another unfair advantage and you;d be complaining about that instead

 

It also wont help if you're on the tanks ignore list becuase you suck, just putting that out there.

 

Long story short, suck it up and do some dailies while you queue or roll a tank and help with the tank poulation issues, this is not something BW can do anything about.