Koozie's Powertech PvP Pyrotech Guide

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

Because Flame Sweep + CGC is fluff damage. If you're stopping caps using Flame Sweep, that's fine, but it's a last ditch move that means that you're probably the last guy standing for your team. You're going to die anyway. I would not use Flame Sweep to proc CGC on a single target. What happens if your Operative flashbangs a group, and you want to use Flame Sweep to proc your CGC? You're screwing your team over by breaking the mezz.

 

At the end of the day, it's fluff damage. that 2100 over 6 seconds is not going to kill anyone. The 6 seconds of 25% defense is more beneficial than most give it credit for.

 

I wasnt saying skip Degauss, i was thinking skip Pyro Shield. Or Rapid Venting, the way my "rotation" works is, i build up enough heat to get down to 3 bars of heat venting, then Rail Shot with PPA, then filler till my next PPA proc, it's not great, and im only level 29, but it works for me. Though when i hit 55, i may try to work on using Koozie's rotation. but it will be a little difficult. and CGC is far from fluff damage, it's the only DoT that makes Superheated Rail do it's job. Superheated rail which vents 8 heat per rail shot, only will activate from CGC's DoT. Sure the ~2100 damage over the 6 seconds may not kill anyone, but it sure helps, dealing 1 point of damage versus missing or getting absorbed is sure better, not much better, but you get my point. Pyro Shield isnt as good as say, Cloak of Pain, or any abilities like it.

[ScytheEleven]

I wasnt saying skip Degauss, i was thinking skip Pyro Shield. Or Rapid Venting, the way my "rotation" works is, i build up enough heat to get down to 3 bars of heat venting, then Rail Shot with PPA, then filler till my next PPA proc, it's not great, and im only level 29, but it works for me. Though when i hit 55, i may try to work on using Koozie's rotation. but it will be a little difficult. and CGC is far from fluff damage, it's the only DoT that makes Superheated Rail do it's job. Superheated rail which vents 8 heat per rail shot, only will activate from CGC's DoT. Sure the ~2100 damage over the 6 seconds may not kill anyone, but it sure helps, dealing 1 point of damage versus missing or getting absorbed is sure better, not much better, but you get my point. Pyro Shield isnt as good as say, Cloak of Pain, or any abilities like it.

 

Pyro Shield is amazing. Over it's duration, it can dish out around 7k damage. And Superheated Rail is when Rail Shot hits a "burning target". Your Incendiary Missile and Thermal Detonator DoT are both burns. You will still vent 8 heat. CGC spreading is just fluff damage, seriously. If we had the same amount of damage from CGC as we did prior to 2.0 (scaled), then yes, Volatile Ignitor would be useful. But CGC is a weak DoT on it's own.

[Ottoattack]

Just want to clear something out about Degsus. It does not improve defense chance by 25%. What it does is provide 25% to dodge melee and ranged atks (white damage) and 25% to resist internal, force and kinetic damage (yellow damage). Defense does not resist yellow damage, which Degsus does. I don't know if it stacks with the 5% passive defense against white damage or not.

 

I wasnt saying skip Degauss, i was thinking skip Pyro Shield. Or Rapid Venting, the way my "rotation" works is, i build up enough heat to get down to 3 bars of heat venting, then Rail Shot with PPA, then filler till my next PPA proc, it's not great, and im only level 29, but it works for me. Though when i hit 55, i may try to work on using Koozie's rotation. but it will be a little difficult. and CGC is far from fluff damage, it's the only DoT that makes Superheated Rail do it's job. Superheated rail which vents 8 heat per rail shot, only will activate from CGC's DoT. Sure the ~2100 damage over the 6 seconds may not kill anyone, but it sure helps, dealing 1 point of damage versus missing or getting absorbed is sure better, not much better, but you get my point. Pyro Shield isnt as good as say, Cloak of Pain, or any abilities like it.

 

I am not sure how your CGC does ~2100. Mine does ~1200 and I am in full obroan. CGC is not fluff on single target, however, if your goal in WZ is to put CGC on as many targets as possible then it is fluff. Pyro is a "single target" tree. Your goal is not to go around and dot everybody, but to sit on the enemy healer and/or high priority enemy dps. There is no reason to waste 21 heat for minor aoe damage rather than use flame burst on a single target.

 

Also shield adds 25% to your armor. At 30% armor (which is PT default without any armor bonuses) using shield decrease incoming damage by 35.7% (which is the damage reduction level at 55% armor compared to 30% armor). This is far more substantial than cloak of pain marauder has (which comes at 26.1% in the rage tree) considering it provides roughly 9.61% more armor reduction and lasts 15 secs. of course cloak of pain is far more spammable, but pyro does not receive as much damage marauder receive on average (I am assuming you do not stay in 4 meter range of the target except when you need to use RP).

Edited January 8, 2014 by Ottoattack

[Megatfx]

Just want to clear something out about Degsus. It does not improve defense chance by 25%. What it does is provide 25% to dodge melee and ranged atks (white damage) and 25% to resist internal, force and kinetic damage (yellow damage). Defense does not resist yellow damage, which Degsus does. I don't know if it stacks with the 5% passive defense against white damage or not.

 

 

 

I am not sure how your CGC does ~2100. Mine does ~1200 and I am in full obroan. CGC is not fluff on single target, however, if your goal in WZ is to put CGC on as many targets as possible then it is fluff. Pyro is a "single target" tree. Your goal is not to go around and dot everybody, but to sit on the enemy healer and/or high priority enemy dps. There is no reason to waste 21 heat for minor aoe damage rather than use flame burst on a single target.

 

Also shield adds 25% to your armor. At 30% armor (which is PT default without any armor bonuses) using shield decrease incoming damage by 35.7% (which is the damage reduction level at 55% armor compared to 30% armor). This is far more substantial than cloak of pain marauder has (which comes at 26.1% in the rage tree) considering it provides roughly 9.61% more armor reduction and lasts 15 secs. of course cloak of pain is far more spammable, but pyro does not receive as much damage marauder receive on average (I am assuming you do not stay in 4 meter range of the target except when you need to use RP).

 

His CGC is only critting for that much against targets that are below 30% life.

[ScytheEleven]

Just want to clear something out about Degsus. It does not improve defense chance by 25%. What it does is provide 25% to dodge melee and ranged atks (white damage) and 25% to resist internal, force and kinetic damage (yellow damage). Defense does not resist yellow damage, which Degsus does. I don't know if it stacks with the 5% passive defense against white damage or not.

 

It does

 

Also, defense chance DOES give you a chance to resist yellow damage. That was changed in 2.0, which is why many classes for PVE all of a sudden needed accuracy (re: Sorcs/Sages). OPs bosses originally had a 10% defense chance, and that defense chance only work against white damage (ranged/melee). Tech/force abilities couldn't be resisted via defense. They changed that. That's why when Degauss gives you that 25% defense chance, you can resist a Smash, a DoT, or anything yellow/white.

 

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

His CGC is only critting for that much against targets that are below 30% life.

 

That isn't my personal CGC damage, that was a value Koozie threw out in the guide. The main reason why I like Volatile Igniter is A. I love Flame Sweep's animation. B. In PvP I play to keep myself alive, while also dealing damage to the team, hense why I like playing a variation of the typical Pyro PvP build. and C. I like dealing AOE damage that is spamable.

 

Edit: This will be my build at 55 for my Pyro PT, for PvP and possibly PvE, the points in Infrared Sensors are mainly for the 2% Ranged and Melee defence, but for PvP more stealth Detection is always nice.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Kaos_KidSWTOR

[Eksenia]

How is flame sweep "spammable" when after doing just a few you're heat starved without even denting your opponent?

[Ottoattack]

It does

 

Also, defense chance DOES give you a chance to resist yellow damage. That was changed in 2.0, which is why many classes for PVE all of a sudden needed accuracy (re: Sorcs/Sages). OPs bosses originally had a 10% defense chance, and that defense chance only work against white damage (ranged/melee). Tech/force abilities couldn't be resisted via defense. They changed that. That's why when Degauss gives you that 25% defense chance, you can resist a Smash, a DoT, or anything yellow/white.

 

 

That only works for NPCs. I play a sin tank in PvP and PvE and guess how many resists do I get out of force shroud? Zero. Defense improves player chance to dodge melee and ranged atks (only white damage). I also have no seen a flame burst (or any other yellow damage) get resisted by a tank yet (outside force shroud and saber reflect). Degsus provides a 25% to resist yellow damage on beside white damage.

[Brunner_Venda]

Because Flame Sweep + CGC is fluff damage. If you're stopping caps using Flame Sweep, that's fine, but it's a last ditch move that means that you're probably the last guy standing for your team. You're going to die anyway. I would not use Flame Sweep to proc CGC on a single target. What happens if your Operative flashbangs a group, and you want to use Flame Sweep to proc your CGC? You're screwing your team over by breaking the mezz.

 

At the end of the day, it's fluff damage. that 2100 over 6 seconds is not going to kill anyone. The 6 seconds of 25% defense is more beneficial than most give it credit for.

 

Two words: saber. reflect.

 

I don't know if you noticed, but every other toon out there is a jugg/guardian these days.

 

Igniter goes past reflect, and keeps CGC up on a target that's otherwise untouchable unless you LIKE eating your own 8K rail shots.

 

You don't go spamming flame sweep for the numbers, you use it as a tool when you need it.

 

Really though, there are ONLY three choices for these points:

- Volatile igniter - flame sweep CGC and lower heat

- Pyro shield - 600 DPS on a 9 second ability with a 2 MINUTE CD

- Infrared sensors - 2% defense, shorter scan CD

 

If you ask me, all three skills are on the 'short bus' as far as useful abilities go. Pick one, it won't make you any better or worse overall.

 

Igniter helps with juggs, scan helps with sins, and pyro shield helps against maras some. If you have trouble with one of those classes, switch up.

Edited January 8, 2014 by Brunner_Venda

[Kooziejr]

That isn't my personal CGC damage, that was a value Koozie threw out in the guide. The main reason why I like Volatile Igniter is A. I love Flame Sweep's animation. B. In PvP I play to keep myself alive, while also dealing damage to the team, hense why I like playing a variation of the typical Pyro PvP build. and C. I like dealing AOE damage that is spamable.

 

Edit: This will be my build at 55 for my Pyro PT, for PvP and possibly PvE, the points in Infrared Sensors are mainly for the 2% Ranged and Melee defence, but for PvP more stealth Detection is always nice.

 

I believe you are misquoting me here. I said 3 x 335 @ 105% surge. = 2100. That is potential damage. The actual damage CGC does is only around 1000-1200 depending on gear. With crits it can go well over 2000.

 

The 2% ranged melee and defense is a waste of points (1 in 50 white dmg attacks you parry..) and so is the stealth thing. Any decent sin or op that is going to attack you is going to blackout/sneak before they get near you so your 2 stealth detection won't pick them up anyways. If you do pick them up they are noobs and the stealth detection would be irrelevant anyways because you still would kill them if you are even an average player.

 

While I don't believe pyro shield is that great it certainly makes the person very undesirable to attack which is one purpose of a DCD. And in 1 v 1s Pyro shield is completely unrivalled by the other potential points.

 

Two words: saber. reflect.

 

I don't know if you noticed, but every other toon out there is a jugg/guardian these days.

 

Igniter goes past reflect, and keeps CGC up on a target that's otherwise untouchable unless you LIKE eating your own 8K rail shots.

 

.

 

You don't need to do this against them. They should already have the CGC dot on them and you shouldn't have used your explosive dart or TD until they pop reflect anyways. When they pop reflect (3 second reflect) you can throw TD and ED on them in those GCDs it is active. This way you still do maximal damage without compromising heat.

 

That's just how I play it guys. I truly truly think that that volatile igniter skill is complete and utter garbage and I never take it.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Kooziejr

[Brunner_Venda]

I believe you are misquoting me here. I said 3 x 335 @ 105% surge. = 2100. That is potential damage. The actual damage CGC does is only around 1000-1200 depending on gear. With crits it can go well over 2000.

 

The 2% ranged melee and defense is a waste of points (1 in 50 white dmg attacks you parry..) and so is the stealth thing. Any decent sin or op that is going to attack you is going to blackout/sneak before they get near you so your 2 stealth detection won't pick them up anyways. If you do pick them up they are noobs and the stealth detection would be irrelevant anyways because you still would kill them if you are even an average player.

 

While I don't believe pyro shield is that great it certainly makes the person very undesirable to attack which is one purpose of a DCD. And in 1 v 1s Pyro shield is completely unrivalled by the other potential points.

 

You don't need to do this against them. They should already have the CGC dot on them and you shouldn't have used your explosive dart or TD until they pop reflect anyways. When they pop reflect (3 second reflect) you can throw TD and ED on them in those GCDs it is active. This way you still do maximal damage without compromising heat.

 

That's just how I play it guys. I truly truly think that that volatile igniter skill is complete and utter garbage and I never take it.

 

It depends on who you're fighting. A good Sin is going to stun or mez you and wait out your shield. You basically can't use your pyro shield unless you have full resolve, and even then you have to stop the sin from just vanishing. That's the only time that infrared sensors is ever good, because if you pull a sin out of stealth either before their opener or after they vanish in combat, or if you get a lucky passive detect, it's OVER. You won. In any other fight infrared is pointless and a complete waste.

 

In a duel, the shield pyro effect is only going to fire every other second because of the GCD, so you'll get three or four activations ? Lackluster damage and a long cooldown make this a bad deal.

 

Igniter still has use against tank juggs with their longer reflect, or against anyone with reflect to keep the DPS up. Thermal det isn't always up when reflect goes up. Otherwise, flame sweep is just a heat hog that does less damage than flame burst.

 

Seriously, we're sort of arguing about which of the worst of our class abilities sucks slightly less than the others. In that case we might as well put in cardio package for the extra 800 health (LOL 2% endurance).

 

I seriously doubt choosing any of these really matters, they're all bad. But our other abilities are so good that the lackluster ones can't be changed without a nerf elsewhere.

[Brunner_Venda]

PS: Koozie!

 

Please post up some tips on fighting insanely good arsenal mercs with pyro PT.

 

I'm to the point with a friend of mine, where the duels come down to missing a pull or a push because of overrides, or who gets the last critical hit.

Edited January 10, 2014 by Brunner_Venda

[Luckeyduckey]

Running ranked again, wondering if the new Oboran relics are better than a Matrix cube. Running the power proc (currently have 1k power base, not bonus damage) and thinking a crit + power proc is best. But I lose a fair bit of power + aim if I don't use the matrix,.

[Ottoattack]

Running ranked again, wondering if the new Oboran relics are better than a Matrix cube. Running the power proc (currently have 1k power base, not bonus damage) and thinking a crit + power proc is best. But I lose a fair bit of power + aim if I don't use the matrix,.

 

BiS relics right now are obraon relic of focused retribution and obroan relic of serendipitous assault. Focused retribution gives 625 main stats for 6 secs every 20 secs. This is more powerful than the power proc. The critic is decent, but not any where close. Matrix cube is no good in comparison to oboan relics focused retribution and obroan relic of serendipitous assault.

Edited January 16, 2014 by Ottoattack

[UberNubabc]

Is this guide still viable in the now version (2.5)?

[ronniehenlau]

Is this guide still viable in the now version (2.5)?

 

It is for this version (2.6), not much has changed. Peronally I dont use IM a lot, but that's more because Im awful at heat management than anything else.

[Kooziejr]

It is for this version (2.6), not much has changed. Peronally I dont use IM a lot, but that's more because Im awful at heat management than anything else.

 

Nothing has really changed. Everything is still applicable in this guide.

[ronniehenlau]

Nothing has really changed. Everything is still applicable in this guide.

 

True, poor wording - nothing has changed for pyro, only AP. And yeh, this guide has helped me loads! Posted it to my server forums (and linked back here, naturally)!

[Aetideus]

It depends on who you're fighting. A good Sin is going to stun or mez you and wait out your shield. You basically can't use your pyro shield unless you have full resolve, and even then you have to stop the sin from just vanishing. That's the only time that infrared sensors is ever good, because if you pull a sin out of stealth either before their opener or after they vanish in combat, or if you get a lucky passive detect, it's OVER. You won. In any other fight infrared is pointless and a complete waste.

 

In a duel, the shield pyro effect is only going to fire every other second because of the GCD, so you'll get three or four activations ? Lackluster damage and a long cooldown make this a bad deal.

 

Igniter still has use against tank juggs with their longer reflect, or against anyone with reflect to keep the DPS up. Thermal det isn't always up when reflect goes up. Otherwise, flame sweep is just a heat hog that does less damage than flame burst.

 

Seriously, we're sort of arguing about which of the worst of our class abilities sucks slightly less than the others. In that case we might as well put in cardio package for the extra 800 health (LOL 2% endurance).

 

I seriously doubt choosing any of these really matters, they're all bad. But our other abilities are so good that the lackluster ones can't be changed without a nerf elsewhere.

 

Infrared is big advantage for Merc and Ptech.

[Kooziejr]

Infrared is big advantage for Merc and Ptech.

 

I think everyone believes that is debatable at this point on this thread for the reasons previously stated.

[alkhattabi]

hey koozie, i got some questions :

1- i always overheat with my pyro and i dont have that issue with my AP, that is why i avoid pyro though i really want to play it, any tips to control the heat like when i should use rapid fire ?

2- i die a lot when i play pyro, i feel am squishier with it >,<

3-i always use ED on CD is that a bad habit when i run ap or pyro is that a bad habit ?

4- is 210 crit for pyro and 250 crit for AP is the way to go ?

5- pyro is better in ranked arena ? AP is beats in regs ?

Edited March 9, 2014 by alkhattabi

[TACeMossie]

hey koozie, i got some questions :

1- i always overheat with my pyro and i dont have that issue with my AP, that is why i avoid pyro though i really want to play it, any tips to control the heat like when i should use rapid fire ?

2- i die a lot when i play pyro, i feel am squishier with it >,<

3-i always use ED on CD is that a bad habit when i run ap or pyro is that a bad habit ?

4- is 210 crit for pyro and 250 crit for AP is the way to go ?

5- pyro is better in ranked arena ? AP is beats in regs ?

 

My comments are coming from a more PvE use of pyro, though some of them transfered across to PvP quite easily, but take these with a grain of salt:

 

1 - Overheating is the biggest thing that Pyro will do to you. Something to note is if you dont pick up the 2% alacrity or have about 200 ping, then the proc is pretty much guaranteed (people have tested this). With 100% uptime on the proc, you need to use 1 rapid shots every 8 attacks - so something like Thermal Detonator/Incendiary Missile -> Flame Burst -> Rocket Punch -> Rail Shot -> Flame Burst -> Rapid Shots -> Flame Burst -> Rail Shot (Make sure 2 of every 3 attacks between rail shot procs are either a flame burst or rocket punch for the 100% proc rate) works really well at maintaining decent heat levels.

 

2. Pyro is more active mitigation while AP is passive mitigation. If you dont like dieing with pyro, enter into a fight with Kolto Overload already pre-loaded (not recommended as you start facing better players, but in lower rankings this helps a lot). Also note that a pyro PT is much tougher to kill when using defensive cooldowns, to the extent I have jokingly tanked SM Ops as an assault vanguard (Pub Mirror) because of how strong the defensive cooldowns are.

 

3. Can't comment on this, but I think its better off using Flame burst for multiple reasons, such as ignoring armor (elemental damage) and the 60% chance of procing CGC (which does 335 damage up-front)

 

4. Im gonna go with Koozie for 210 crit rating for full pyro with the eliminator set bonus just cause he PvPs a lot more than I do. Other numbers that will be 'magic numbers' to hit (numbers that are when a large percentage of your damage would go from one simple fraction e.g. 1/4, to a more reliable one, e.g. 1/3) include:

 

98 crit rating - gets you the perfect crit rating for 1 in 3 elemental tech attacks to crit

330 crit rating - 1 in every 4 attacks will crit minimum, subject to skill boosts such as +6% tech, +6% elemental and +8% rail shot. (we are getting a bit high here though)

372 crit rating - With the exception of rapid shots, rocket punch, shoulder cannon and the explosions on TD/ED, 1 in 3 attacks for everything should be critting.

 

As established though, I wouldn't go any higher than 330, and try to stay at 210.

 

For AP though, all I can tell you is in PvE optimal crit in Dread Forged is 0. Just know that you wont get any noticable attacks to go from 1/4 to 1/3 attacks critting until you get to 441 rating - and its typically at these points that the big burst and sustained spikes come in so... yeah... dont do that.

 

5. I would agree with you there for the same reason I take pyro in ops to bossfights without adds and AP to ones with adds. Because AP sucks when there is only one target (opinionated statement, subject to being flamed... though it is the lowest parsing spec in the game...)

 

Now, if Koozie wants to correct anything, go ahead. I would like to see how close I was to being correct though.

Edited March 9, 2014 by TACeMossie

[Kooziejr]

hey koozie, i got some questions :

1- i always overheat with my pyro and i dont have that issue with my AP, that is why i avoid pyro though i really want to play it, any tips to control the heat like when i should use rapid fire ?

2- i die a lot when i play pyro, i feel am squishier with it >,<

3-i always use ED on CD is that a bad habit when i run ap or pyro is that a bad habit ?

4- is 210 crit for pyro and 250 crit for AP is the way to go ?

5- pyro is better in ranked arena ? AP is beats in regs ?

 

I agree with the above post almost completely! Just a few minor preferences from me:

 

1) do the rotation that was stated - try to stay below 40 heat, use thermal sensor override diligently and vent heat when you are well and truly overheated.

2) Pyro is not that "squishy" - learn to use chaff flare, your stuns, shield, adrenals, and kolto appropriately as pointed out in the guide.

3) This is a bad habit. ED on CD is not wise for multiple reasons. First and foremost because it is a 30m attack and when you get knocked back to 30m you use that as your "gap closer" - that is you do damage from 15 metres still and then get back into range. Secondly as stated above it doesn't ignore armour so a direct attack like flame burst is better - people who use ED when they are standing next to you don't know how to play PT properly.

4) Those are the crit ratings I prefer

5) I don't play much ranked on my PT (usually heal) but both of these are very good. I personally prefer pyro against hybrid tanks and AP against full tanks. Just my preference though.

[LoveCoach]

First of all I would like to thank you Koozie and all other people contributing. Great guide man, greatly appreciate it.

 

For now I have only one question. On several occasion you say that we need to manage usage / CD on defensive cooldowns where your advice is to save abilities with longer cooldowns as last resort if I read it correctly? Well, my question is, is it maybe better, in case when you can choose ofcourse, to use your defensive ability with longest cooldown first? That way, that ability will start refreshing and there is better chance that you will use that ability more times per match.

 

Thanks again for your time and energy,

Best regards!

 

P.S. EDIT Actually there is more than one question lol. I think I either miss or you never mentioned abilities like UNLOAD and MISSILE BLAST. Are they better not to be used in your expirience? I catch myself often starting fight with unload, is that wrong? :-)

Edited May 20, 2014 by LoveCoach

[TACeMossie]

First of all I would like to thank you Koozie and all other people contributing. Great guide man, greatly appreciate it.

 

For now I have only one question. On several occasion you say that we need to manage usage / CD on defensive cooldowns where your advice is to save abilities with longer cooldowns as last resort if I read it correctly? Well, my question is, is it maybe better, in case when you can choose ofcourse, to use your defensive ability with longest cooldown first? That way, that ability will start refreshing and there is better chance that you will use that ability more times per match.

 

Thanks again for your time and energy,

Best regards!

 

P.S. EDIT Actually there is more than one question lol. I think I either miss or you never mentioned abilities like UNLOAD and MISSILE BLAST. Are they better not to be used in your expirience? I catch myself often starting fight with unload, is that wrong? :-)

Yep. Unload in general is a terrible move for powertechs. Especially Pyrotech ones, as due to Rain of Fire and pushback on Unload, 2x Rapid Shots ends up being better than unload.

 

As for Missile Blast its sole use is stopping caps from multiple people. I almost took it off my quickbar until someone pointed it out to me, so now its just in an obscure location (next to all my legacy abilities for dailies)

Edited May 21, 2014 by TACeMossie