Darth Malgus vs Darth Sideous

[BacaWicket]

sideous has better force powers while malgus has lightsaber techniques

[Wolfninjajedi]

Sidious wipes the floor with Malgus in both aspects.

[Aurbere]

Sidious wipes the floor with Malgus in both aspects.

 

^This.

 

Sidious utterly dominates Malgus in Force abilities and lightsaber skill.

[RixoFutu]

Sidious is considered as most powerful Sith ever lived. No additional disscussion needed.

[StarMagus]

That said if Malgus plays his cards right and has the fight near a bottomless pit, he's got a punchers chance.

[Wolfninjajedi]

That said if Malgus plays his cards right and has the fight near a bottomless pit, he's got a punchers chance.

 

Nah...

[StarMagus]

Nah...

 

Come on Vader was able to toss the "greatest sith of all time" down a shaft and he wasn't able to stop him, and Vader was almost dead from being beaten up by Luke.

[Aurbere]

Come on Vader was able to toss the "greatest sith of all time" down a shaft and he wasn't able to stop him, and Vader was almost dead from being beaten up by Luke.

 

It's amazing how the very same argument used in the last Sidious vs. Malgus thread has come up in this version.

 

It's like a knee-jerk reaction whenever there's a Sidious vs. thread.

[StarMagus]

Of course it does. Darth Sideous gets killed by a 1/2 trained Jedi who is in the process of earning his title of Jedi and his 1/2 dead apprentice.

 

 

Darth Malgus gets killed Empire side by... One of the winners of the Great Hunt, a Member of the Dark Council, The Emperors Wrath, and The Greatest Spy the Empire has ever produced.

 

If your enemies define you... Malgus clearly has the better group.

Edited November 18, 2013 by StarMagus

[Aurbere]

Of course it does. Darth Sideous gets killed by a 1/2 trained Jedi who is in the process of earning his title of Jedi and his 1/2 dead apprentice.

 

 

Darth Malgus gets killed Empire side by... One of the winners of the Great Hunt, a Member of the Dark Council, The Emperors Wrath, and The Greatest Spy the Empire has ever produced.

 

If your enemies define you... Malgus clearly has the better group.

 

Yeah, except Sidious wasn't killed. (But don't mention the stuff he does before his 'death')

Edited November 18, 2013 by Aurbere

[StarMagus]

Yeah, except Sidious wasn't killed. (But don't mention the stuff he does before his 'death')

 

Yes Yes he has clone bodies... even the people from Lucus state he died the first time getting chucked into the Spartan bottomless pit.

 

Dark Empire discrepancy

 

In the Dark Empire series, Palpatine tells Luke that the Battle of Endor was not his first death, and that he had started transferring his spirit into clone bodies years prior to that, when his original body had degenerated as a result of heavy use of the dark side. However, Lucasfilm official Leland Chee has stated that Palpatine was lying to Luke about having died previously, and that Palpatine's demise on the second Death Star was definitely the first time he died.[203]

 

Chee also stated that, while Palpatine's clone bodies do degenerate as a result of the strong presence of dark side energy within them, his original body did not degenerate in the same way, and he only had to start switching bodies periodically as a result of having to use clone bodies following the destruction of his original body at Endor.

 

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CloningGambit

 

Honestly the entire clone thing doesn't impress me because it's an over used trope that allows the hero to win by killing the badguy but still letting the writers reuse the same bad guy so the entire thing because a cheap version of "your princess is in another castle".

Edited November 18, 2013 by StarMagus

[Wolfninjajedi]

It's amazing how the very same argument used in the last Sidious vs. Malgus thread has come up in this version.

 

It's like a knee-jerk reaction whenever there's a Sidious vs. thread.

 

What argument? Yeah Sidious 'died' but he was completely caught off guard, not expecting Vader to turn against him.

 

So that....'argument' can't really be used, not that it wasn't an argument to begin with.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

What argument?

 

Remember the last Malgus vs. Sidious thread? A few people were trying to say that Malgus could just toss Sidious down a pit.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Remember the last Malgus vs. Sidious thread? A few people were trying to say that Malgus could just toss Sidious down a pit.

 

No I know, when I meant by "What argument?" I was speaking of, like "it's an actual argument?" It's not an argument.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

No I know, when I meant by "What argument?" I was speaking of, like "it's an actual argument?" It's not an argument.

 

A tactic then? It doesn't matter what we call it, people will still point to it in their desperation.

[StarMagus]

No I know, when I meant by "What argument?" I was speaking of, like "it's an actual argument?" It's not an argument.

 

It's a pretty good argument. For somebody who is as skilled with the force as he's supposed to be he is shown in the movies to have horrible situational awareness and really really poor reaction times when surprised in combat. Heck, even Han Solo reacts to see Vader in a room faster than Palps reactions to be picked up.... carried over to the edge of the shaft... and then dropped in like yesterday's garbage.

 

Not to mention for all of his power he does nothing while falling to stop himself, which other force users have been shown to use the force to fly with.. and the greatest Sith ever can't even do that...

 

Add on: Probably because in the movies Jedi and Sith were powerful but not silly levels of power that almost became DBZ "Luke's power is now over 9000!!!!" that the EU turned them into.

Edited November 18, 2013 by StarMagus

[Aurbere]

It's a pretty good argument. For somebody who is as skilled with the force as he's supposed to be he is shown in the movies to have horrible situational awareness and really really poor reaction times when surprised in combat. Heck, even Han Solo reacts to see Vader in a room faster than Palps reactions to be picked up.... carried over to the edge of the shaft... and then dropped in like yesterday's garbage.

 

Not to mention for all of his power he does nothing while falling to stop himself, which other force users have been shown to use the force to fly with.. and the greatest Sith ever can't even do that...

 

Add on: Probably because in the movies Jedi and Sith were powerful but not silly levels of power that almost became DBZ "Luke's power is now over 9000!!!!" that the EU turned them into.

 

Sounds like pointless whining to me.

[StarMagus]

Sounds like pointless whining to me.

 

Sounds like you don't have a counter to me.

[Aurbere]

Sounds like you don't have a counter to me.

 

Or maybe I do, but I can see that arguing with you won't go anywhere because any attempt by me to counter your whining (or get the debate moving past it) will be met with 'LOLZ! Tossed down teh pit!'

 

It's pointless because you can't figure out that Sidious' death is not indicative of how powerful he is. If we thought like this, many powerful Jedi and Sith would be reduced to pansies.

[jstankaroslo]

you guys write things like grown ups, but still participate in kindergarden argument: "does he-man beat superman"?

And you even stick with things like -"you cannot use this argument -its not fair!", "oh no! I can and will use it against you!"

come on! if it is fun, so lets give it a 'serious' try!

if I were to think who would win in a duel it should be a matrer of which era has better lighsaber and force skills. Two champions of the Sith in different times.

I'd put my money on Malgus, cause the whole era was full of wars and battles between Jedi/Sith and Sith/Sith, so Malgus would have been a duelist veteran. There were hardly any Sith in the Sidious era, and Jedi did'n fight any force users on daily basis (unlike swtor era). Experience goes a long way.

Sidious was magnificent in subtle politics, and he surprised his oponents (both Windu and his crew and Yoda) with his skills. I mean Windu did'nt expect a fight at all (but has won non the less) and Yoda was rusty and unexperienced in force user fight.

But against somene like Malgus, who beat lots of Jedi and Sith Sidious would be on a lost position. Might have stronger force with him, but less combat experience.

But -Sidious was wise enough (until ROTJ) to always have the clones or imperial gurd at his side -like the most powerful of mafia bosses -old and blind but always with an army of henchmen.

[Wolfninjajedi]

A nice thought Jstan....but still Sidious wipes the floor with Malgus here and in short, I will now show this...

 

Lightsaber Skill

 

He turned desperately to Saesee Tiin. "Master Tiin—you're the telepath. What am I thinking right now?" Tiin frowned and cocked his head. His blade dipped. A smear of red-flashing darkness hurtled from behind the desk. Saesee Tiin's head bounced when it hit the floor. Smoke curled from the neck, and from the twin stumps of the horns, severed just below the chin.

Kit Fisto gasped, "Saesee!"

The headless corpse, still standing, twisted as its knees buckled, and a thin sigh escaped from its trachea as it folded to the floor.

"It doesn't..." Agen Kolar swayed. His emerald blade shrank away, and the handgrip tumbled from his opening fingers. A small, neat hole in the middle of his forehead leaked smoke, showing light from the back of his head. "...hurt..." He pitched forward onto his face, and lay still.

 

Before either could react, both Tiin and Agen were cut down.

 

Suddenly, my lightsaber is gone. It flies from my hand across the room. It lands in the hand of my Master. I never see him enter. Not if he doesn't want me to. The smile of triumph fades from my face.

"Do you think," Lord Sidious says, walking toward me, "you can ever relax your guard?"

"No, Master." What a clumsy, weak mistake. I should be prepared for him to enter at all times. How could I have forgotten that, even for a moment?

The lightsaber whirls in the air, twirling, held in my Master's hand. I can't track it, it moves so fast. But I know it's heading for me. Lord Sidious moves faster than my eye can follow. I smell heat and smoke. The laser traces the outline of my body, my face, my hands. The buzz is loud in my ear. One flinch, one involuntary twitch of a muscle, and I am dead.

I do not flinch.

At last, Lord Sidious deactivates my weapon. He tosses it toward me. The sweat on my palm almost causes me to drop it.

 

Here Sidious moves faster than Maul can see and expertly with precision using his lightsaber, traces an outline of his entire body. Point here being is showing how precise Sidious is with a saber and that Maul could not track his movement.

 

Sidious raised his saber and flew at Maul, who parried desperately, his mechanical legs whirring as he sought to counter his former Master’s blows. Sidious’s sabers were a blur, a whirling cage of deadly plasma. Maul danced away from one blow, then reversed his movement to avoid another, and then there were too many to count, and then there were even more than that.

Maul’s saber spun out of his hand, bouncing away across the floor.

 

Again showing how fast Sidious can be with a blade.

 

Anakin blinked and rubbed his eyes again. Maybe he was still a bit flash-blind—the Korun Master seemed to be fading in and out of existence, half swallowed by a thickening black haze in which danced a meter-long bar of sunfire. Mace pressed back the darkness with a relentless straight-ahead march; his own blade, that distinctive amethyst blaze that had been the final sight of so many evil beings across the galaxy, made a haze of its own: an oblate sphere of purple fire within which there seemed to be dozens of swords slashing in all directions at once.

The shadow he fought, that blur of speed—could that be Palpatine?

 

Their blades flared and flashed, crashing together with bursts of fire, weaving nets of killing energy in exchanges so fast that Anakin could not truly see them—but he could feel them in the Force. The Force itself roiled and burst and crashed around them, boiling with power and lightspeed ricochets of lethal intent. And it was darkening.

 

Even Anakin who is able to evade lighting bolts and react to ships flying at near the fraction of lightspeed, cannot see Sidious.

======================

 

As for Force Power? Well was gonna do that too, but it should be so very obvious to anyone that Sidious > Malgus in that regard.

 

In fact Saber skill should be that obvious too....but I just wanted to throw that bit in at least.

[Beniboybling]

That said if Malgus plays his cards right and has the fight near a bottomless pit, he's got a punchers chance.

Indeed...

[Aurbere]

you guys write things like grown ups, but still participate in kindergarden argument: "does he-man beat superman"?

And you even stick with things like -"you cannot use this argument -its not fair!", "oh no! I can and will use it against you!"

come on! if it is fun, so lets give it a 'serious' try!

 

That's how you enter a thread, ladies and gentlemen! Let's take a few lessons from this guy!

 

But if you want a 'serious try,' here goes:

 

Malgus is proficient in Shien/Djem So. Sidious mastered all seven lightsaber forms.

 

Malgus defeated Kao Cen Darach and Ven Zallow. Sidious defeated Master Yoda (then the most powerful Jedi in the Order's history) and stalemated Mace Windu (canonically one of the greatest lightsaber duelists of all time).

 

Malgus could summon Force Maelstroms. Sidious could summon the most powerful dark side technique: the Force Storm. He used it to destroy fleets and ravage worlds.

 

There. Took their greatest achievements and set them side by side. Sidious is clearly superior.

[Aurbere]

Indeed...

 

LOL, awesome!

[Beniboybling]

It's a pretty good argument. For somebody who is as skilled with the force as he's supposed to be he is shown in the movies to have horrible situational awareness and really really poor reaction times when surprised in combat. Heck, even Han Solo reacts to see Vader in a room faster than Palps reactions to be picked up.... carried over to the edge of the shaft... and then dropped in like yesterday's garbage.

 

Not to mention for all of his power he does nothing while falling to stop himself, which other force users have been shown to use the force to fly with.. and the greatest Sith ever can't even do that...

 

Add on: Probably because in the movies Jedi and Sith were powerful but not silly levels of power that almost became DBZ "Luke's power is now over 9000!!!!" that the EU turned them into.

If you actually serious about this, I don't think you can really compare an out of combat situation with an in-combat one. Sidious was, as well all know, caught of guard because:

 

1. He never suspected that his apprentice, whom he had manipulating into a willing pawn, would ever betray him.

 

2. He was occupied by the task of killing Luke Skywalker, which the novelisation reveals kept him quite occupied indeed as Luke was actually beginning to fight back (absorbing his lightning) and Sidious was afraid of his power.

 

In battle he isn't going to be fooled into thinking Malgus won't kill him, nor will his guard ever drop to the point in which Malgus could physically pick him up and throw him down a shaft. He'd blast him away or cut him in half before he ever got the chance. And then of course we have the fact that Malgus is a brute force, incredibly direct, (and as a result, somewhat lacking in situational awareness himself) bullrusher. We does not and never has favoured sneaky and underhanded tactics (which he in fact had a measure of distaste for.)

 

So yeah, Sidious is going to let Malgus sneak up and 'pwn' him - and Malgus ain't going to try. Unless of course you have a thought out and logical scenario that suggests otherwise. If not I'm afraid its a moot point.