Smuggler/Op healers are blatantly imbalanced

[Vladnar]

Don't make it sound difficult. Operative/Scoundrel healers are insanely easy to play.

 

I've never played a healer but I respecced my Scoundrel to try it out last week. I had no idea of rotations or procs, I just ran around spamming any green skill. I only died once (ignored my own health for too long) and put out 600k healing for the round.

 

Op/scou healer is invincibility mode for the game. I thought playing a lol-smasher was easy but you at least have to get near your enemy for that. With these guys you just run around mashing buttons and it all works out.

 

Zero skill is needed to be the best healer in the game and to keep your team alive. For that reason there needs to be changes.

 

And anybody defending OP healer as being balanced... After playing it for the first time I have NO respect for your skill. And anybody else who plays one will feel the same.

I thought the 99% defense the marauders get was unfair till I got the 75% self heal of the operative. I could ignore all incoming fire (which is alot with hots) till I was in my last 1/4 of health and then I could heal to full.

 

OP healers accusing DPS for needing to play an "easier" game instead of complaining?

Please.

This class is the easiest PvP class in the game. Get off your high horse.

 

worth reading again I thought, wondered, tried it and the truth has been in the pudding so it seems.

[Vladnar]

No. They're not how they should be. It's ridiculous that you need a whole group to kill one healer and it still takes >3 minutes.

Make sorcs and commandos like this too and PvP will die because heal will be sort of 10 lvls above dps.

Not saying that sorcs and commandos are fine, but the difference between them and this retarded operative healer class is so huge that BW should rather buff sorcs and commandos and at the same time nerf operatives.

 

NERF NOT BUFF.....spot on.

[Vladnar]

What skill is this...??

 

Yes Marauders have an ability that reduces all incoming damage by 99% for a short period....Undying Rage is it?

[Vladnar]

This thread makes you realize how bad some people are as DPS though. If you can't kill a healer with two DPS pounding on him, just delete the game.

 

One single DPS that isn't complete trash is able to shut an Op healer down.

 

IN all of the warzones ive done on all my characters and in the arenas ive NEVER seen one dps even particularly bother an ops healer let alone take them down, I have seen 3 fail many times.....but you should need to focus as a few of you and all characters should go down quick...guaraded healers ALL 3 TYPES should take that bit longer when healing but nobody should be too tough and ops healers are definitely stand out, just a wee nerf and lets move on.

[Ghostee]

IN all of the warzones ive done on all my characters and in the arenas ive NEVER seen one dps even particularly bother an ops healer let alone take them down, I have seen 3 fail many times.....but you should need to focus as a few of you and all characters should go down quick...guaraded healers ALL 3 TYPES should take that bit longer when healing but nobody should be too tough and ops healers are definitely stand out, just a wee nerf and lets move on.

 

any decent merc/commando can electro net, grav grav sticky explodinground railshot (basic rotation minus net) full auto for 20k plus(average damage) on a min/maxed 55. If i have ONE more person throw out an attack or two at the same time that OP is dead.

[Cretinus]

....

One single DPS that isn't complete trash is able to shut an Op healer down.

 

That's probably true, if the OP healer is you. OP healers who are not terribad, however, won't be shut down so easily.

[warultima]

OP healer can be completely shut down 1v1 by a dps if the Op healer is extremely bad.

 

You cannot base class balance around some of the worst skilled healers vs some of the best DPS.

[Aerilas]

Only 1reply to my well thought out post. Let me shorten it out for you.

If you cant take out an operative healer with 2dps within 1 min30, youre bad. Don't even get me started on those that can't with 3dps.

 

So many ppl calling scou/ops op because they suck at dpsing is ridiculous.

One mara/sin should be able to shut down an operative. Not kill, but make him near-useless. And no not if youre terribad. This is when the operative is at leastvgood, and the dps very good.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Aerilas

[Cretinus]

Only 1reply to my well thought out post. Let me shorten it out for you.

If you cant take out an operative healer with 2dps within 1 min30, youre bad. Don't even get me started on those that can't with 3dps.

 

So many ppl calling scou/ops op because they suck at dpsing is ridiculous.

One mara/sin should be able to shut down an operative. Not kill, but make him near-useless. And no not if youre terribad. This is when the operative is at leastvgood, and the dps very good.

 

Come on, the fairy tale of "OP-healer-is-fine-it's-the-DPS-who-suck" again? Give us a break, please.

 

If it's the DPS who suck, then how comes that they only complain about OP healers? If they suck so much, then how comes that they don't have any problems with sorc healers or commando healers? Is this some sort of selective sucking that only happens when fighting OP healers? Give us a break.

[CaptainApop]

If it's the DPS who suck, then how comes that they only complain about OP healers? If they suck so much, then how comes that they don't have any problems with sorc healers or commando healers? Is this some sort of selective sucking that only happens when fighting OP healers? Give us a break.

 

Yeah, because commandos and sorcs are laughably easy to shut down. Interrupt once or twice once their major cooldown is gone ( interrupt shield/bubble) and the dps could be total window-lickers and that healer is still dying.

 

Don't pretend your teams don't immediately zerg the sorc every time you see one on the other team, healer or no. Commandos too, ignore them and they'll kill your whole team. Have one guy interrupting/stunning them and they can't dps their way out of a paper bag.

[Aerilas]

Come on, the fairy tale of "OP-healer-is-fine-it's-the-DPS-who-suck" again? Give us a break, please.

 

If it's the DPS who suck, then how comes that they only complain about OP healers? If they suck so much, then how comes that they don't have any problems with sorc healers or commando healers? Is this some sort of selective sucking that only happens when fighting OP healers? Give us a break.

 

Because if you read my first post I clearly stated that Operatives are fine, and i ALSO stated that the problem isn;'t with the operatives. The problem is that Sorcs and Mandos are UNDERpowered.

THAT's why dps only complain about operatives. (And yes stil because they're not good enough.)

 

I'm far from the best dps player and I always doubled/tripled most dps in normal warzones.

Most dps are simply ****, and they all started playing arena's without being able to do any sort of damage. They complained about operatives even then. Stil because most dps are **** yes.

 

 

People really need to read an entire thread before posting

Edited November 17, 2013 by Aerilas

[JeffrenBrek]

That's probably true, if the OP healer is you. OP healers who are not terribad, however, won't be shut down so easily.

 

Come again? My main is Arsenal Merc, yet I have no trouble with pounding Op healers.

But don't let me burst your bubble.

 

It's a simple fact that most people who play DPS classes are completely clueless when it comes to doing damage. I've seen plenty of people use their interrupts to interrupt the mighty Diagnostic scan, just for the Op healer to use Kolto Injection in the next second. And their damage at the end of the WZ is equally as retarded.

Edited November 17, 2013 by JeffrenBrek

[JeffrenBrek]

OP healer can be completely shut down 1v1 by a dps if the Op healer is extremely bad.

 

You cannot base class balance around some of the worst skilled healers vs some of the best DPS.

 

No, but likewise you cannot base class balanced around some of the worst skilled DPS vs some of the best healers.

[JeffrenBrek]

IN all of the warzones ive done on all my characters and in the arenas ive NEVER seen one dps even particularly bother an ops healer let alone take them down, I have seen 3 fail many times.....but you should need to focus as a few of you and all characters should go down quick...guaraded healers ALL 3 TYPES should take that bit longer when healing but nobody should be too tough and ops healers are definitely stand out, just a wee nerf and lets move on.

 

Guard is a different story, and again: Two DPS should be able to kill an Op healer fast and without much trouble. Evasion and Shield Probe aside, they have no sort of defense whatsoever.

Cloak is a non-factor defense, because he cannot heal while he's cloaked.

If they roll more than once, it will screw up their energy management. Plus if they're slowed they're not going far anyways.

[knownastherat]

Cloak is non-factor defense? Its the ultimate defense. We are talking here about defense not healing abilities. Indeed, they cannot heal while invisible, but they cannot be targeted, can move into position/Los and prepare. In the mean time everyone has to switch target and .. we've seen it before.

 

Its kind of interesting how debates here about balance issues do not revolve around any data/evidence. Like if anecdotes.. I can kill this class 1on1 .. meant anything. They do not. Not sure how much feedback the developers take from this board, but when it comes to class balance, hopefully not much. Luckily, there are now at least Leaderboards to analyse.

 

BTW how Mercs/Sorcs should be brought to OP strength?

Edited November 17, 2013 by knownastherat

[Texnolyze]

Because if you read my first post I clearly stated that Operatives are fine, and i ALSO stated that the problem isn;'t with the operatives. The problem is that Sorcs and Mandos are UNDERpowered.

THAT's why dps only complain about operatives. (And yes stil because they're not good enough.)

 

I'm far from the best dps player and I always doubled/tripled most dps in normal warzones.

Most dps are simply ****, and they all started playing arena's without being able to do any sort of damage. They complained about operatives even then. Stil because most dps are **** yes.

 

 

People really need to read an entire thread before posting

 

+1 to that.

And I would go even further with the statement.

 

It's not JUST the case with Sorcs and Mercs being underpowered, it's about the number of stuns/snares/interrupts in this game. It's too easy to shutdown a ranged casting class just by coordinating interrupts and stuns (if you do it correctly your opponent won't be able to cast a single thing without relying on cooldowns). That's the only reason why Operatives shine because they can effectively heal a target without resorting to casting. Take that away and Operatives will become a liability (since their defense without instant casts is by far the worst of all healer classes) and the only competitive PvP tree will be gone.

 

Why do you think the top DPS classes are PT's, Maras, Juggs, Sins (meele)? It's because every abilities that matter in their cases are instant (aside from Ravage and Flamethrower, I doun't count Choke since it's also a CC) and ridiculously powerful and they can easily close the distance to their target. Yes, you can kite them... for a while. And then you're gonna get destroyed. That's the part of the reason why Concealment Operatives suck - since they can't close the target (well they can, but it costs 1/4 of their energy pool) and their DPS is ****.

 

It's totally possible to shutdown an Operative Healer, it's just not as easy as with other healers. Does this mean we should nerf Operatives and let meele DPS totally own the competition?

[Cretinus]

Because if you read my first post I clearly stated that Operatives are fine, and i ALSO stated that the problem isn;'t with the operatives. The problem is that Sorcs and Mandos are UNDERpowered.

THAT's why dps only complain about operatives. (And yes stil because they're not good enough.)

 

I'm far from the best dps player and I always doubled/tripled most dps in normal warzones.

Most dps are simply ****, and they all started playing arena's without being able to do any sort of damage. They complained about operatives even then. Stil because most dps are **** yes.

 

 

People really need to read an entire thread before posting

 

So basically, what you're suggesting is: Instead of nerfing OPs to bring them back to level with dps and with the other healers, rather buff the other healers to OP god mode and then tell dps to l2p? Great idea, very unbiased.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Cretinus

[Aerilas]

So basically, what you're suggesting is: Instead of nerfing OPs to bring them back to level with dps and with the other healers, rather buff the other healers to OP god mode and then tell dps to l2p? Great idea, very unbiased.

 

For ****s sake would you FINALLY read my first post? I explain there WHY the other healers should be brought up to operative level, instead of nerfing ops down to the other healers. I'm on my phone and really will not type it again. Just go read it.

If you're not going to bother to read all i said but reply nonsense posts nonetheless then just don't post.

 

Oh and if you keep stating operatives are OP god mode it just proves you are a bad dps. As explained why in my most recent 2 posts. 2dps can EASILY take down even a much better than average operative. Or at least some ppl can, those who dont average <300k in a reg wz, rather those with a brain that average >700k on ANY class

Edited November 17, 2013 by Aerilas

[AlrikFassbauer]

Sad thing is that Bioware stated several times that they do not intend to bring the other healing classes to that same level.

[Cretinus]

For ****s sake would you FINALLY read my first post? I explain there WHY the other healers should be brought up to operative level, instead of nerfing ops down to the other healers. I'm on my phone and really will not type it again. Just go read it.

If you're not going to bother to read all i said but reply nonsense posts nonetheless then just don't post.

 

Oh and if you keep stating operatives are OP god mode it just proves you are a bad dps. As explained why in my most recent 2 posts. 2dps can EASILY take down even a much better than average operative. Or at least some ppl can, those who dont average <300k in a reg wz, rather those with a brain that average >700k on ANY class

 

I read your first post. You say that it's not operatives who are op, but rather sorcs/mandos who are underpowered. And I dare to disagree, at least partly.

Sorcs/mandos surely need a slight buff, but this doesn't mean that they have to be buffed to where OPs are now.

And independently of what happens with sorcs/mandos, OPs need a nerf. Because balance is not only about bringing all healers to the same level, it's also about balancing heal with dps. And this is where OP healers are way too strong currently.

Since all that you had to say to this part of the problem was basically that dps are all bads and need to l2p if they are not able to shut down an operative, I didn't see much reason to comment on that first post of yours.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Cretinus

[Aerilas]

I read your first post. You say that it's not operatives who are op, but rather sorcs/mandos who are underpowered. And I dare to disagree, at least partly.

Sorcs/mandos surely need a slight buff, but this doesn't mean that they have to be buffed to where OPs are now.

And independently of what happens with sorcs/mandos, OPs need a nerf. Because balance is not only about bringing all healers to the same level, it's also about balancing heal with dps. And this is where OP healers are way too strong currently.

Since all that you had to say to this part of the problem was basically that dps are all bads and need to l2p if they are not able to shut down an operative, I didn't see much reason to comment on that first post of yours.

 

Well then youre probably one of the horrible dps. Me and many dps players i know have no trouble at all taking down operatives. This as a dps speaking.

 

As an operative speaking. There are arena games vs 3dps where they cant take me down, but then i look at their damage and its horribad and i didnt get a single stun on me when nessecary. Then there are games where the focus and cc coordination of the other team is SO good, i cant live very long ( which is how it should be).

 

step up your game. practice with operative friends if needed

Edited November 17, 2013 by Aerilas

[Bryanseven]

I play a carnage marauder, operative healers have an ability called evasion that makes them immune to my all white damage and they still go down EVENTUALLLY (>5 min usually), unless they guarded.

 

Guarded op / scoundrel healers can survive 3 uncoordinated / bad dps indefinitely and this should probably be the case. In my opinion all they really need is a nerf to energy management so that if they ARE being pressed hard they cannot heal their entire team while on the run for very long, this would make games more interesting I think.

 

GREAT sorc healers can be as hard to take down, but when pressed this hard they can't heal their team while kiting nearly as well. This is how it should be I think, 1 decent dps should be able to neutralize or GREATLY diminish an unguarded healers ability to heal his team but probably not kill them anytime soon. A guarded healer should require 2 dps to achieve the same effect, and 2 dps plus the tank running interference to kill him in any reasonably quick fashion.

 

Good players peel for their healers and it becomes a dance of using SMART cc's and target switching to kill an out of position dps and then have the breathing room to have both dps and the tank focusing on the enemy tank and healer.

 

Just my .02

Edited November 17, 2013 by Bryanseven

[Radsh]

What DPS can solo down an opérative? You fail to precise that one, I can tell that dsorcerers can't, and mercenaries can't. Marauders with the anti heal? Hardly in less than 15 min. Well anyway it's the usual rant about : "I'm NOT op it's you all that are bad".

 

Well no I read it all, played a lot, mercenaries are really underpowered, sorcerer heal are fine, and opératives are OP, period.

[Tankqull]

BTW how Mercs/Sorcs should be brought to OP strength?

 

 

my baslance changes would be like this

 

 

make the small heal for sage/merc castable on the run (get rid of mercs lockout timer for it) add procs reducing the energy points needed for that skill.

increase the setback reduction for healing trees mayby restrict it to one setback per cast attempt.

add a second pvp only 36talent (10times skillable) reducing general healspell energy consumption by 10% +1% for each skillpont spend for all 3(6) healspeccs

 

sorc:

sorcs (specifically heal sorcs) need more survivability make the mezz bubble baseline(keep it self only - change the middle tree talent making a stun out of the mezz with same resolve values as the mezz version)

each force surge/resplendance proc (from the channeld heal) can beside ther current options be used to to use the hot without lockouttimer and tripled hot value or as an instant force lift.

 

merc

add a singeltraget snare-dd like forceslow (baseline for all mercs)

reduce the lockout timer of the 36point skillpoint talent of merc/comm.

add a talent changing the knockback snare to a root high up the healing tree

add a singeltarget hot as powerfull as a double stack of ops/scound ST-hots - 3 can be obtained at a time

 

change ops/scound hot for pvp that the caster can only obtain 6 simultainiously (extream HPS reduction without devastating arenas healoutput)

get rid of the small heal lockout timer for scound/ops.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Tankqull

[Royox]

Yeah, because commandos and sorcs are laughably easy to shut down. Interrupt once or twice once their major cooldown is gone ( interrupt shield/bubble) and the dps could be total window-lickers and that healer is still dying.

.

 

 

 

But this is how you are supposed to kill a healer. Interrupting him and making him waste their major CD. FFS this is how you are supposed to kill healers on every MMO. And even with that it's not an easy job.

 

But what can you do vs OP in 1 vs 1??? They have too many skills to scape from combat and keep autohealing. 2 big stuns, a vanish skill, dodge skill, absorb skill, HOTs....ffs. If the fight is long enought a healer can manage to even kill a melee dps with poison dots when healing himself.