Server PVP Leaderboards

[HaLeX]

solo Ranked is a huge fail for one simple reason: NO GEAR REGULATION

 

example: You can have a fully min/maxed tank class who gets grouped up with a couple of 26k sorcs and no matter how much protection you pass around, you're just delaying the inevitable. Same goes for heal classes. BW claims their not fans of hybriding but are pushing people in that direction and now what we end up with is DPS classes are king and supportive classes don't even want to que up anymore. good luck getting a que pop here in the near future if you're not a DPS. Supportive classes could at least have a chance if there was some regulation as to how much expertise/pvp gear is required to que up for solo ranked.

 

If this is the case then so be it, I will be retiring my supportive classes and work only on DPS classes and pvp will soon be filled with nothing but derp DPSers

 

I was just in a match with this guy and ya I agree. We got put in with a merc with 37k hp and 1050 expertise, the other team focused him down in 2 gcd, nothing any tank or healer can do about that. I have to admit I lost my cool and the second round I just let myself be killed. Bolster should prevent people from going in with 1050 expertise so that the other players at least have a chance. tank heals and you have a no show at dps and the match is over before it starts and that's not fun or competitive. Ok i got that off my chest. These pve people running around trolling ranked for comms makes the ratings more luck than skill.

[alexandrabarros]

In my opinion, is not only how geared the players are, but getting lucky with the composition too. And if not that, then getting lucky that the sorcerer in your team can survive the three smashers on the other team, it goes on and on. Sure you can pass some instructions around, in the beginning of the match, but are they gonna listen?

 

I guess all I'm saying is, solo queue is luck all the way... and smashing your head against the keyboard over and over and over

Edited November 19, 2013 by alexandrabarros

[countpopeula]

but solo queue really does mean nothing

 

Random groups, random compositions, and random skill levels =/= competitive matches

 

and on this server its super easy to queue sync

 

Solo queue is really the ONLY thing that matters if you want to talk about player skill. Group ranked is about group comp, you can play like dog**** and still win if you run the OP compos. The ability for a solo queue player to carry a high W/L ratio regardless of who he gets grouped with is far more telling than a group running FOTM OP compos if talking about individual player skill, which is what these leaderboards are pretending to do. If your group runs a compo with 4 taunts and a guard, the opposition is very limited in what they can employ to beat it. Most of them require a specific comp that is unfavorable to any matchup other than the one you are intending to beat. Very wishywashy if you want to talk about "skill". They should post average DPS/TDD, protection, heals, and W/L instead of just rating and wins. Or we could cut all of the measuring and just duel it out, but I know certain players are adverse to getting stomped 1v1

[Domatron]

Solo queue is really the ONLY thing that matters if you want to talk about player skill. Group ranked is about group comp, you can play like dog**** and still win if you run the OP compos. The ability for a solo queue player to carry a high W/L ratio regardless of who he gets grouped with is far more telling than a group running FOTM OP compos if talking about individual player skill, which is what these leaderboards are pretending to do. If your group runs a compo with 4 taunts and a guard, the opposition is very limited in what they can employ to beat it. Most of them require a specific comp that is unfavorable to any matchup other than the one you are intending to beat. Very wishywashy if you want to talk about "skill". They should post average DPS/TDD, protection, heals, and W/L instead of just rating and wins. Or we could cut all of the measuring and just duel it out, but I know certain players are adverse to getting stomped 1v1

 

While I agree that better players will carry better records eventually if they suffer through terrible team mates long enough, the idea that the unorganized cluster F that is solo queue is the ultimate measure of skill is downright laughable. I'm sorry but when I'm on my deception sin and both rounds I out damage and out protect the three smashers on my team I don't see how my skill could have made up for their lack of ability. If you have the patience to suffer the downright awful play in solos more power to you, it's regs that reward ranked comms.

Lottery queue is Lottery queue, and teamwork in a 4 man is also a skill.

 

lol at crying about OP comps while you run a smash mara btw

 

Hybrid tanks that get queued as dps say hi

[smellmop]

Solo queue is really the ONLY thing that matters if you want to talk about player skill. Group ranked is about group comp, you can play like dog**** and still win if you run the OP compos. The ability for a solo queue player to carry a high W/L ratio regardless of who he gets grouped with is far more telling than a group running FOTM OP compos if talking about individual player skill, which is what these leaderboards are pretending to do. If your group runs a compo with 4 taunts and a guard, the opposition is very limited in what they can employ to beat it. Most of them require a specific comp that is unfavorable to any matchup other than the one you are intending to beat. Very wishywashy if you want to talk about "skill". They should post average DPS/TDD, protection, heals, and W/L instead of just rating and wins. Or we could cut all of the measuring and just duel it out, but I know certain players are adverse to getting stomped 1v1

 

would be sweet if the solo/group ranked worked like gw2...you can swap classes when the match starts when you see what your team needs....of course you can pvp @ lvl 2 in gw2....so not really that hard to have those classes to switch to right away. But anyway...Ranick have a coke and a smile.

 

*edit* i should say not when the match starts but in the warmup timer you can switch.

Edited November 20, 2013 by smellmop

[OMGitsCHARLIE]

Group ranked is about group comp, you can play like dog**** and still win if you run the OP compos.

 

If an "OP Compos" plays like dog**** and still wins, its not because the group is OP, its because the opposition is bad. There are counters to everything. Its not necessarily getting a counter group comp to combat a specific comp, you just need to know who to focus when playing certain comps. Focusing healers isn't always the clear route. Skilled players will know what to do as a group when going up against any composition.

Edited November 20, 2013 by OMGitsCHARLIE

[countpopeula]

While I agree that better players will carry better records eventually if they suffer through terrible team mates long enough, the idea that the unorganized cluster F that is solo queue is the ultimate measure of skill is downright laughable. I'm sorry but when I'm on my deception sin and both rounds I out damage and out protect the three smashers on my team I don't see how my skill could have made up for their lack of ability. If you have the patience to suffer the downright awful play in solos more power to you, it's regs that reward ranked comms.

Lottery queue is Lottery queue, and teamwork in a 4 man is also a skill.

 

lol at crying about OP comps while you run a smash mara btw

 

Hybrid tanks that get queued as dps say hi

 

YOU DON'T KNOW ME BRO, YOU DON'T KNOW ME!!

 

I run ranked as Carnage as well as around a quarter of my 8v's, so I don't know where you get off saying I'm a Smasher I play any 3 specs for Marauder interchangeably in both PvE and PvP, and frankly Rage is the only one I dislike. I'll be the first to say it needs the bat, been saying it since 1.2 dropped. I don't cry about OP comps, I simply don't queue group when I know certain comps are running. It's PvP, there's always going to be skill involved at any level. The fact that the group ranked leaderboards show a significantly higher median rating for every class other than Mara/PT/Operative is extremely telling for what dominates grouped queues, and if you've played any MMO for any amount of time you're familiar with the prevalence of FOTM specs. They're called that for a reason, a player who ranks novice as that class can take it in and do well because they're ez mode. The ability to play a durpspec, regardless of what "level of coordination" you try to pretend it takes, does not make you a good player is the point I'm trying to make. Unfortunately this game's PvP does not reward players who attempt to make the most out of lesser specs/classes. In group ranked the better comp will invariably win more matches between players of semi-equivalent ability. Better players will get beat by a better comp, if they adapt is up to them.

 

I enjoy solo queuing and taking the unorganized tards you speak of and winning matches. If you don't win most of your solo matches, I don't know, it's probably not for you then. I held a 10:1 W/L ratio in Preseason, and have a 5:1 right now. I don't find it that hard to direct/lead/carry my queues to wins. I have a lot more respect for the Solo leaderboards than I do for the group ranked is what I'll leave it at. The mentality of "Na, I'm not gonna queue solo cause then people will see me get beat and we can't have that" does not make you a good player and gets no respect from me.

[alexandrabarros]

YOU DON'T KNOW ME BRO, YOU DON'T KNOW ME!!

 

I run ranked as Carnage as well as around a quarter of my 8v's, so I don't know where you get off saying I'm a Smasher I play any 3 specs for Marauder interchangeably in both PvE and PvP, and frankly Rage is the only one I dislike. I'll be the first to say it needs the bat, been saying it since 1.2 dropped. I don't cry about OP comps, I simply don't queue group when I know certain comps are running. It's PvP, there's always going to be skill involved at any level. The fact that the group ranked leaderboards show a significantly higher median rating for every class other than Mara/PT/Operative is extremely telling for what dominates grouped queues, and if you've played any MMO for any amount of time you're familiar with the prevalence of FOTM specs. They're called that for a reason, a player who ranks novice as that class can take it in and do well because they're ez mode. The ability to play a durpspec, regardless of what "level of coordination" you try to pretend it takes, does not make you a good player is the point I'm trying to make. Unfortunately this game's PvP does not reward players who attempt to make the most out of lesser specs/classes. In group ranked the better comp will invariably win more matches between players of semi-equivalent ability. Better players will get beat by a better comp, if they adapt is up to them.

 

I enjoy solo queuing and taking the unorganized tards you speak of and winning matches. If you don't win most of your solo matches, I don't know, it's probably not for you then. I held a 10:1 W/L ratio in Preseason, and have a 5:1 right now. I don't find it that hard to direct/lead/carry my queues to wins. I have a lot more respect for the Solo leaderboards than I do for the group ranked is what I'll leave it at. The mentality of "Na, I'm not gonna queue solo cause then people will see me get beat and we can't have that" does not make you a good player and gets no respect from me.

 

I don't even know where to start... let me see...

 

1. If you think AP PT is easy mode, press-this-button-to-win, kind of spec, you clearly have no idea how to play a AP PT.

2. If you don't queue only when certain comps are running, tell me what composition you would like us to run.

3. I don't need your respect.

[Domatron]

I never said I didn't win most solo matches its just effort vs reward equation. If you like trying to drag an anchor across the finish line more power to you. (Assuming you don't just queue sync which is preposterously easy on this server)

I don't need the comms, which is really all yolo queue is good for. No random dead weight in group queue, you bring what you want the better team wins.

Team ranked has more complex strats and a need for higher execution (vs good teams), what you are saying is equivalent to me saying killing a boss in group finder is a better measure of skill then a progression kill.

Solo queue = HM, group queue = NiM

 

Question do you believe Zephyros, the highest ranked solo player on the server is the best pvper? the best marauder?

 

Is double sorc the FOTM build thats got you so scared? It works just fine on PoT5 http://www.twitch.tv/mudclot/b/471447774

 

If you run a solid comp you should be able to adapt and still get wins. You will almost always win if your team is more skilled regardless of the comp of the other team. I've beaten comps that hard counter mine more than once.

You run a mara, AP tank counters you, I've played plenty of teams and still won on a mara against an AP tank, good teams adapt. Saying you won't queue because of the other teams comp is just a cop out.

 

You could have a competitive team from HMD, I don't see why you are so adverse to playing 4s.

[OMGitsCHARLIE]

Yo whats your record on your 4 dps commando team Domatron?

[Domatron]

Yo whats your record on your 4 dps commando team Domatron?

 

13 wins - 0 losses before the reset, haven't tried it since

[kamikrazy]

OK, going to throw my opinion into the ring.

 

On solo rated:

Yes, there's a large RNG factor on who your teammates are so I don't believe the solo rating is all that indicative of skill. Some classes are better at carrying than others, I'll just leave it at that.

 

Group rated:

I think running with the AP/PT tank hybrid with smasher(s) is much easier than running the double-sorc comp that can counter it. With that said, double-sorc is probably countered by more compositions than it is capable of countering itself.

My bet was to counter your comp with the same comp, but we didn't execute it as well since I had my gear configuration all wrong. We're not a large guild and some of us work later at night so it's difficult to experiment with other comps (or get anything going at all for that matter). We did try running with a merc which was interesting, and we'd like to continue experimenting with other combinations. I'd be interested to see if the 2.5 changes to the assassin/shadow have any ranked implications, or whether the overload shot buff will finally push DPS operatives into ranked viability

[OMGitsCHARLIE]

I've got plenty of alts, if you're willing to try something out and you need another

[countpopeula]

I don't even know where to start... let me see...

 

1. If you think AP PT is easy mode, press-this-button-to-win, kind of spec, you clearly have no idea how to play a AP PT.

2. If you don't queue only when certain comps are running, tell me what composition you would like us to run.

3. I don't need your respect.

 

Who even are you? I don't recall ever addressing you. I had a PT, it was so faceroll I don't know even how to open a discussion about it other than to say I deleted it to make a Gunslinger named Thefastand solely to get the HM Toborro's title with it so that's about what I think of that class. I've only ever seen your guild run an amalgamation of Op/Smash/PT in ranked so, anything but that I guess? How about Sorc Shadow Jugg tank Merc Healer? Or you could just Solo queue to find me, but Clutchie is about the only KFT tag I've seen in solo.

 

Team ranked has more complex strats and a need for higher execution (vs good teams), what you are saying is equivalent to me saying killing a boss in group finder is a better measure of skill then a progression kill.

Solo queue = HM, group queue = NiM

 

Question do you believe Zephyros, the highest ranked solo player on the server is the best pvper? the best marauder?

 

Is double sorc the FOTM build thats got you so scared? It works just fine on PoT5 http://www.twitch.tv/mudclot/b/471447774

 

That analogy is like saying a Reverse Breakout is akin to a Power I. You're talking about two different ball games there. PvE and PvP are unrelated in almost every aspect other than you play the same toon. PvP is 100% reactive, it's unpredictable, and it's rarely repeatable. PvE is a choreographed and rehearsed dance between 8/16 players and the programmed fight. Sometimes not so choreographed, but you get the idea Being good at one will not make you good at the other. I'd say that GF PvE is akin to PvP since you have to play on the fly, but even that is a stretch. Typically high level PvE requires a class knowledge and playability to the point where you can't help but be at least decent in PvP. PvP works on the other end, you are very reactive so you can fix problems on the fly but may not be able to memorize timings to avoid autowipes to use your reactive skills. Neither translates directly over because on one end you're trying to defeat something that is specifically programmed to kill you in a certain way and on the other you're trying to outplay someone with similar limitations as you. I don't PvP anything like the way I PvE. Agreed that the higher the play level, the higher the coordination and skill level required to hang, but don't try to make it seem like you're coordinating multiple layer airstrikes here. It's a Deathmatch; reposition, isolate and focus fire.

 

No, and I'm not saying you can gauge who the best player is off of anything other than personal biases. It's all subjective on class and playstyle and most importantly who is making the assessment of player skill. My point was simply to bring up that certain classes straight dominate what people take into group ranked. Why? Because the compo alone gives you a distinct advantage over the majority of groups you'll see.

 

If I cared more we'd work at defeating every difficult comp players field. Arenas are honestly stupid. If you want to epeen about deathmatches, just duel in Outlaw's Den. Had a discussion last night, PvP in this game died with 8v ranked. Maybe space will bring it back. Granted I haven't sat in on many VoIPs for Ranked Arena play, but the play calls haven't been nearly as intricate, in depth, or as well coordinated as when I would run with ID's 8v ranked teams. It's not hard to make Deathmatch calls. If I want real PvP, I go play Masters Ladder Starcraft

[Domatron]

Good convo Ranik

I don't agree with you on everything but you do make good points. Still I think I'd just like to see more competitive teams queuing ranked 4's and you guys would do fine if you chose to, who the other team is or what they are running shouldn't stop you.

If you follow the $ the real pvp is League of Legends.

 

The two sorcs comp was just to illustrate that perceived non competitive comps can do just fine with the right players.

 

Kami in my opinion (take it for what its worth) lethality sniper is the best counter for AP tank, if you guys ran the mara, sniper combo with you spec'd as leth and put burst on the AP tank it would be hard to keep him alive.

 

I got my sorc up now kinda been itching to try him out in a few comps, but my play time is going to have to come down soon so who knows if I'll be able to get in on the fun. Might be forced into yolo queue because of play time restraints.

 

Weekends may see the resurrection of the feared Quadmando comp if we can get pops going

Edited November 20, 2013 by Domatron

[ParagonAX]

Is KFT planning to q up tonight?

[Domatron]

I'm in when I get home, probably around 9EST. I'm sure if you jump in mumble or send some tells they can have a group before that.

[dogwithaids]

I never said I didn't win most solo matches its just effort vs reward equation. If you like trying to drag an anchor across the finish line more power to you. (Assuming you don't just queue sync which is preposterously easy on this server)

I don't need the comms, which is really all yolo queue is good for. No random dead weight in group queue, you bring what you want the better team wins.

Team ranked has more complex strats and a need for higher execution (vs good teams), what you are saying is equivalent to me saying killing a boss in group finder is a better measure of skill then a progression kill.

Solo queue = HM, group queue = NiM

 

Question do you believe Zephyros, the highest ranked solo player on the server is the best pvper? the best marauder?

Is double sorc the FOTM build thats got you so scared? It works just fine on PoT5 http://www.twitch.tv/mudclot/b/471447774

 

If you run a solid comp you should be able to adapt and still get wins. You will almost always win if your team is more skilled regardless of the comp of the other team. I've beaten comps that hard counter mine more than once.

You run a mara, AP tank counters you, I've played plenty of teams and still won on a mara against an AP tank, good teams adapt. Saying you won't queue because of the other teams comp is just a cop out.

 

You could have a competitive team from HMD, I don't see why you are so adverse to playing 4s.

 

I want to say that I don't believe I am the best PvPer or the best Marauder on the server. Their are a lot of maras and sents that I believe are better than me that don't do solo ranked (other classes as well). I have had matches where I had to carry the team and the team has had to carry me. I don't believe either group or solo rank is a true testament to skill. As you guys are stating group is about having the right comp to compete and being able to work well together as a team. Solo is a lot like the lottery with better odds to not end up with fresh 55's just trying to get ranked comms.

[Domatron]

Just to be clear Zeph, I do think you are a good marauder. I wasn't trying to drag your name through the mud or anything.

[dogwithaids]

Just to be clear Zeph, I do think you are a good marauder. I wasn't trying to drag your name through the mud or anything.

 

lol thanks I know you weren't

[Fatitude]

A very nice counter to the ap pt tank is sin/sorc deeps combo. The leth sniper will or rather should be much more limited by cleanse, but since all teams run with op heals there is no way to cleanse sorc dots. Thus the effectiveness of double sorc. That comps succeeds very well but has probably the two best sorcs in the entire game powering, let alone arguably the best op healer. Player skill is most definitely a huge factor, but so are playtime togather, comp ect. That's what results in great teams.

[Domatron]

Just an FYI neither of the top 2 teams on PoT5 are using an AP tank

[Domatron]

I found another OP comp, two commando dps, sage heals, and an AP vg

link

[kamikrazy]

Kami in my opinion (take it for what its worth) lethality sniper is the best counter for AP tank, if you guys ran the mara, sniper combo with you spec'd as leth and put burst on the AP tank it would be hard to keep him alive.

 

I have to choose running my sniper or my gimped PT. If I get a chance, I probably will try leth. I do like MM for the single-target burst, but it's not a lot of pressure on the whole group.

[countpopeula]

I found another OP comp, two commando dps, sage heals, and an AP vg

link

 

Against a 3man in unranked PUGs? I'm not sure that's anything to be proud of . I appreciate the obsession some of you seem to have with me, but it's getting creepy when you faction swap to try to harass me into queuing ranked. Grats, you're able to beat a half premade of players who specialize in PvE. I'm not sure that warrants a celebration, but how about this instead.

 

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://tetheredswimming.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/sarcastic-clapping.gif&imgrefurl=http://tetheredswimming.com/2012/08/sarcastic-clapping/&h=230&w=300&sz=261&tbnid=T1NqBfDTuh5umM:&tbnh=110&tbnw=143&zoom=1&usg=__fGBlylIeGfHd4e9AlURyGClJj0o=&docid=YJX20WOOoyNX6M&sa=X&ei=OSOOUpXsNZDksASq7IKIDQ&ved=0CC4Q9QEwAA

Edited November 21, 2013 by countpopeula