The (Un)Official PVP venting thread.

[L-RANDLE]

Again, I do have augments and plan to get more. I do OK. I just don't feel that people like RANDLE should rage about augments and deny that they are expensive. Because they are, really expensive.

 

And where does it end? I play a Vigilance Guardian. It's not a very good PvP spec. Does that mean I disrespect my teammates? If I weren't so lazy, I could have a fully minmaxed Focus Sentinel instead. But I prefer to waste everyone's time by queuing on the Guardian. I shouldn't do that, should I?

 

LOL.. They are only expensive for the people who dont want to put in the time or effort to obtain them, even though its only a minor annoyance...

 

And you are missing the point. Your spec viability or AC attributes are not 100% under your control. Gearing and obtaining credits is. Do you understand the difference?

[Siorac]

And you are missing the point. Your spec viability or AC attributes are not 100% under your control. Gearing and obtaining credits is. Do you understand the difference?

 

Spec viability and AC attributes are 100% under my control: I could put the effort in to level and gear another class, a Scoundrel healer for example (they're more useful than a fully augmented and minmaxed Vigilance Guardian). Heck, I could just respec to Focus! But I don't because I'm evil and most importantly, lazy.

 

This is why I'm not augmenting for the sake of pleasing others. I'll do it but only to perform better because I want to do well with my Guardian because I love the class and have fun with it. But not because the likes of you believe everybody should be fully augmented in purples the moment they hit 55.

[L-RANDLE]

Spec viability and AC attributes are 100% under my control: I could put the effort in to level and gear another class, a Scoundrel healer for example (they're more useful than a fully augmented and minmaxed Vigilance Guardian). Heck, I could just respec to Focus! But I don't because I'm evil and most importantly, lazy.

 

This is why I'm not augmenting for the sake of pleasing others. I'll do it but only to perform better because I want to do well with my Guardian because I love the class and have fun with it. But not because the likes of you believe everybody should be fully augmented in purples the moment they hit 55.

 

No, I expect people to have basics before entering 55 PvP or PvE, not be BIS. But the irony is you can obtain BIS augments before you hit 55, even if its your first and only toon, by picking the right craft and running dailies..

 

You said it yourself, your a biochemist right? Ok so when you came back were you crafting green implants for RE to get slot components between 50-55? Where you farming dailies to buy the actual augments between 50-55?

 

I'm guessing no, when this is what you should have been doing if you want to que at endgame. And this goes for just about every endgame activity, PvP or PvE.

 

I don't have a problem with you not having BiS stuff, but even you should understand that you really have no excuses. Its only a matter of having some personal responsibility to show up with the minimums.

 

PS: One three hour session of dailies can bet you 500k+ credits, but people be spending millions on mounts and want to complain that I am calling them out.

 

Amirite?

[L-RANDLE]

Phone problems... Edited November 8, 2013 by L-RANDLE

[L-RANDLE]

See above.. Edited November 8, 2013 by L-RANDLE

[Seireeni]

You asked before what the absolute minimum was, but I think you misinterpreted what I said. I said DO that absolute minimum, not HAVE the absolutely minimum. What I meant was, if you have enough money, augment. If I see someone come in one day with 3 blues I will not get upset because I can see he is at least trying. then the next day if he comes in with 4, the same thing. Honestly is it really that hard to get one blue augment every 3 days if you are on every day? I don't think so. If you can't even do that, then you are just saying "to hell with everyone else, I am ok with dragging down my team". You don't have to come in with all purples on the first day, but at least try to show half an effort, please.

 

(Bolding mine)

 

Yes, it is hard to get the money for a level 55 (or even 50) augmentation/augmentation kit with a i.e. level 25 character. Usually, if I try to buy much anything at those levels, I'll soon end up so broke that you can't craft anything for a while. Happened to my marauder when I bought some adaptive gear for my companion. Next level up came, a lot of abilities that costed over 30k, I couldn't even train them all.

If I played my level 55s every day, I'm sure it wouldn't be hard at all. But again, that isn't fun or something worth paying subsciption fee.

 

Also, saying that it doesn't matter what kind of gear you wear, since the bolster fixes it all - how are there people with 25k hp in warzones, then? Bug? They accidentally equipped augments with negative stats?

 

I'm sorry, I just find it absolutely weird to be that irritated about one part of gearing in regs. You have full Obroan? Sorry, it isn't augmented, you have no right to play warzones. I can understand it in ranked, but this, to me, feels like "unless you have aquired all the datacrons, you have no right to play endgame".

 

But I can always start using my sage's pve set in pvp too! I think 2 of the pieces have some level 48 blue augments I added while I was leveling that character...

Since augments are the only thing that matters.

 

EDIT: Though if it's truly as someone said - that absolutely nothing actually matters but the augments - I guess I could stop buying pvp gear and buy credit boxes instead and buy augmentation slots/augments with that money, since I wouldn't lose any money that I'm gathering for a fluff item x.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Seireeni

[knownastherat]

What those responsible failed to notice is that with the game going Free To Play, which is euphemism for Micro-transactions, traditional money-sinks , among other mechanics, lost their justification.

 

Traditional money-sink is for example Repair or ripping out mods. Repair does not produce less sloppiness, it only motivates players to type /stuck at best and at worst running like chickens. Fee for ripping out mods is just money sink as it has no other, logical or any, justification.

 

One could argue that money-sinks are essential for economy - the money goes around - but this argument becomes obsolete the moment micro-transactions are introduced as money made in-game, number under total control of designers, can be spent on digital items. Augments are digital items too, though they support another part of economy which is crafting, respectively gathering.

 

So if those responsible were looking for non-zero sum games they would dump money-sinks and sell more digital items while leaving players with more cash. Needless to say that flawless transfer of mods from one shell to another can only stimulate the business with digital items.

 

Keep it simple, keep it fun. Augments are in the game for:

 

1) Crafting/gathering

2) Gear customization

3) Money-sink

 

Out of these only 1) makes any sense. Gear customization is a joke as there is always BiS and everything else becomes irrelevant and for noobs to learn the hard way, and money-sink is dead as explained.

 

In another thread someone suggested to let F2P PvP, make PvP more accessible, and making sure its more accessible should be priority. Entry level PvP should not require augments. If player wants to try 4 classes and 8 specialization, or switch from one to another, let her/him have it. Telling players that they need to work .. hello? .. on their gear before they can enter PvP, before they can play game for fun, belongs to kindergarten methodology. Teens and adults play this game for fun and the current player base reflects how much fun the game is.

 

I do understand that some people like PvP in SWTOR as it is. Sure, some people like Marilyn Manson. WoW is still popular not because it has superior game mechanics, or visuals or content, its popular because of what I call the social factor, which defines MMO, is high there. Making it hard for people to interact, by requiring them to work for example, is simply not good for social factor. The hardcores should recognize they need the casuals and so should the game designers.

 

Who is responsible for the state of the game?

Edited November 9, 2013 by knownastherat

[L-RANDLE]

Also, saying that it doesn't matter what kind of gear you wear, since the bolster fixes it all - how are there people with 25k hp in warzones, then? Bug? They accidentally equipped augments with negative stats?

 

Oh please. If you enter any level of PvP with 25k, you ARE doing something very wrong.

 

I was over 30k, with zero PvP gear/lvl55 augments, when I hit 55 on my sniper. I just bought some lvl43-50 greens. I had 28K+HP and bonus damage was 650. You can easily buy some low level oranges and fill them with green/blue mods from planetary comms/mission rewards and do the same thing, except you can augment those. If I augment them with cheap lvl 55 blues, my bonus damage goes up by 78 and my HP by 2.5K(this is meaningful). I'd be over 30K.

 

If I ran my PVP gear with zero augments, my bonus damage would be around 730 and my HP would be around 28k.

 

Get it now? You don't need PvP gear, before you need augments.

[DainjaMouz]

But I can always start using my sage's pve set in pvp too! I think 2 of the pieces have some level 48 blue augments I added while I was leveling that character...

Since augments are the only thing that matters.

 

Love how you turned the discussion about augments into a strawman you could demonize, mock and generally slap around. Seriously, what role are you playing in this conversation, and why do you feel obligated to defend the fact that you're perfectly happy pugging around in krap gear unconcerned for how it affects others' enjoyment of the game? Does it make you feel better to jump into the fray and announce to us, voice dripping with sarcasm, that those of us who choose to focus on PvP take the game "way too seriously"? I mean, you've made your point--loud and proud--that we can expect you to continue lowering the odds of whatever PvP team members have the misfortune to be grouped with you, and that you don't care at all what we think about it. Do you have ANYTHING else useful to say? Or, do you just happen to enjoy rubbing our noses in your poo?

Edited November 9, 2013 by DainjaMouz

[Ravenschild]

I generally i don't like that WZ are GvG (Gear vs Gear) so that the player and his skills and knowledge are on 2nd place for whats the most important in WZ. In my understanding of PvP the player and his skills and knowledge are on 1st place for whats the most important the rest only affects your play style but not your chances to win Like in Starcraft II World Championship Series. There you will not hear talks about gear or stuff that you can buy or obtain by wins but knowledge, skills, tactics, strategy ... there you see that this an truly PvP ... Probably we have such true PvP when two teams of fully geared are fighting against each other... other situations are just GvG

 

Every MMO is about gear both in PVP and PVE. Try doing a FP or OP or PVP in level one green or standard gear. See what happens. Increasing your gear has been a part of RPG's both online and offline since the 70's with AD&D. The reality is augs are needed to be effective. As to the creds issue,its not that difficult to use your minions to craft and gather while you pvp. You can even have them make lower level items (cybertech mods and barrels re'd to blue do decent price wise) if you need creds to do the higher level gathering missions. Option 2 is if you are a subscriber you get those lovely CC's every month. Rather than opening packs put them on the GTN (quick 300k on BC typically) or if you pop that varactyl or other uber rare item put it up. There is your mk-9's or your augs (if you cant make what you need). Once you have your mk-9's hold onto a few of those uber rare things (or uber desirable like some of the emotes) for a few months. Its a nice return once the packs arent buyable. That pays for another toons mk-9's or augs. Or specialize. I have 2 toons that are gathering skills only. Admittedly they arent 55 yet but even still by running crafting missions while I PVP I can easily make 10 mk-9 kits a week and at least 1-2 augs as well because one of my other toons has slicing for the purple part. Use blues until you can get purples since blue 55 augs are better than nothing (or the old lvl 50 purple ones). Its not that difficult and it can be done while still murdering friends and enemies in war zones.

[Ravenschild]

Honey... I got 22 toons. And I don't do ranked. And it's miss, not mr.

 

4 of my 5 level 55s don't have a crafting skill. This is because they were leveled before I understood anything at all about crafting, and didn't bother with it. My sage has synthweaving, and yes, she could craft augments. But it would take time, and money, and tbh, I think it just would be way more trouble than it's worth. As I believe I already mentioned, I don't really enjoy endgame. My main reason to do absolutely anything with my level 55s is to get money, so I can buy something nice to the characters I'm still leveling.

 

Now, I just don't see the reason to waste time and money to augment the gear for my level 55s, when I use them so rarely. I would have to do a lot of boring stuff so I could do another boring things (=dailies) in better gear? Sorry, the pvp I do during those dailies isn't worth it.

 

Ironically, your comment on "getting shipped back to lowbie" isn't that stupid. One of the main things why I prefer leveling over endgame, is that in leveling, I don't have to do a lot of boring things in order to do things I enjoy. I can just do story quests, warzones and flashpoints in a row, nothing boring in between. Yay!

While in endgame, I have to do first use hours and hours to get better gear, before I can do something I enjoy at all (or I would have to, if I just listened to people like you). Now, sure, I do a couple of warzones while doing dailies, but I realize I'm a little handicapped by my lack of gear. But really, I'm doing those warzones to get a little break from the dailies, not to be the most awesome player with the most awesome stats at the end charts. And if that's not fine by you, then too bad for you.

 

I do sometimes feel people are just taking this game way too seriously. I get it if you don't want a person in level 45 greens to a ranked arena, I understand, but "do not enter a warzone before you have augments!"? Seriously. I'm starting to miss the old recruit gear. It was blue, so it couldn't be augmented, so people wouldn't have any reason to start whining if it wasn't augmented.

 

So call me lazy if you feel like it, but if the only reason I'm playing my level 55 is so I could buy a varactyl for my lowbie sentinel, I'm not going to use that money to buy augments instead.

 

Ummmm....you do realize that you can still get your 3 skills on those 4 toons right? And make and see stuff to increase cashflow after re'ing it to blue right? Just curious.

[Ravenschild]

No because failiing in PvE means no reward but huge repair cost for everyone. Failure in PvP means... slightly lower rewards.

 

So you get nothing (no loots,no creds,not one single thing) if you wipe on the end boss? I seriously think not. Not to mention I believe the minimum comms in a wz you can get (with one medal) is 35 or so and the max I believe is 140. You need 12500 for conq gear (full set). For Basic comm gear (PVE) you need 1545 for a full set and you can get them from GF (Random),Dailies,Weekly's,FP's,Area Missions (Ori) at level 55. So lets not hear the whole PVE means no reward. Now if you are going for the higher end for PVE then yes you will need to complete the ops and FP's and will get nothing if you repeated wipe for commendations. On the other hand it takes a grand total (in reg wz comms) of 99,425 including the cost of the gear you need to turn in for the Obroan gear for the higher end pvp gear. The grind on the comm stuff on the higher end is probably about the same. On the lower end PVE would get geared faster.

[DainjaMouz]

I do understand that some people like PvP in SWTOR as it is. Sure, some people like Marilyn Manson. WoW is still popular not because it has superior game mechanics, or visuals or content, its popular because of what I call the social factor, which defines MMO, is high there. Making it hard for people to interact, by requiring them to work for example, is simply not good for social factor. The hardcores should recognize they need the casuals and so should the game designers.

 

So, we've been on a couple of threads together, and I can only assume you're a genius because I can never make heads or tails of what you're saying. However, there are a couple of items in the above quote upon which I believe I have the mental acuity to comment.

 

(1) "...some people like Marilyn Manson" - Yes, some people *do* like Marilyn Manson. Also, some people like beer, yoga, and MMOs. Are you making a weak-***ed attempt to insult a subgroup of MMO players because you dislike MM and happen to think everyone else shares your opinion; or, is there something else going on here?

 

(2) "WoW is still popular..." - Actually, the idea that WoW is still "popular" is an urban myth, unless you define "popular" as hemorrhaging subscribers out the wazoo. It's more accurate to say that WoW has a massive installed base that is rapidly dwindling away. You can actually learn about this particularly salient fact by looking at data, which is an activity that I understand geniuses like.

 

(3) "Making it hard for people to interact...is simply not good for social factor." - I'm finding it ironic that in another thread in this forum you have argued *against* premades. To a non-genius such as myself, this seems like talking out of both sides of your mouth. On the one hand, you say we need to make sure everyone has a special, group hug experience in PvP, because the "social factor" is important. On the other hand, you want to prevent friends or guildies from grouping together in PvP because they constitute a "premade".

 

From my limited perspective, there are two types of PvP players: those that play for kicks and those that play to win. Based on what I understand of your definition of "social factor", I happen to think that those that play to win are *more* social; we're the ones trading ideas and strategies, and looking for feedback in-game and on discussion boards such as this. The "players for kicks" spawn in, wave their light sabers around a bit, and then go back to running dailies without saying a word. How does that compute with your "social factor", especially when you actually want to prohibit the highly social act of grouping for WZs?

 

Anyway, I'm sure I'm misunderstanding some or all of what you said, because it's way over my head.

[Technohic]

Here is my fresh 55 in a warzone.

 

http://oi42.tinypic.com/2nhj2mr.jpg

 

The bracers and all things along the far right except the chest are conq. Weapon, relics, implants, ears and focus not conq. Everything augmented in level 55 blue power augs except the implants, relics, ears.

 

Basically, got up to level 54 and just did PvP dailies and weekly (already had some comms) and bought sub-55 PvP weapons to keep recycling. Not a lot of effort there. When I wasn't doing that, I would just run Illums (~20 minutes) each day and before I would start, I would start my alts crafting. That takes creds and effort and I'm almost convinced I'd be better off just running dailies on all 6 toons I have level 50 or above, so the cred grind did take some effort, but I felt valuable to the teams I was on when I got into 55 rather than just trying to tag along.

 

Basically, I guess a point I would make is yes; it took me a little effort to prepare for level 55, but I think it is a much worse, much more harsh effort to try to play catch up after hitting 55 and starting from scratch. I still have a ways to go, but its worth it for myself and others I am teamed with to be at least somewhat competitive.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Technohic

[Siorac]

So you get nothing (no loots,no creds,not one single thing) if you wipe on the end boss? I seriously think not. Not to mention I believe the minimum comms in a wz you can get (with one medal) is 35 or so and the max I believe is 140. You need 12500 for conq gear (full set). For Basic comm gear (PVE) you need 1545 for a full set and you can get them from GF (Random),Dailies,Weekly's,FP's,Area Missions (Ori) at level 55. So lets not hear the whole PVE means no reward. Now if you are going for the higher end for PVE then yes you will need to complete the ops and FP's and will get nothing if you repeated wipe for commendations. On the other hand it takes a grand total (in reg wz comms) of 99,425 including the cost of the gear you need to turn in for the Obroan gear for the higher end pvp gear. The grind on the comm stuff on the higher end is probably about the same. On the lower end PVE would get geared faster.

 

PvE means no rewards if you fail. If someone shows up drastically undergeared, we will fail at the first boss and get nothing. If someone shows up for PvP drastically undergeared he will be bolstered up so it won't be that noticeable but even if we do fail, we'll get rewards. That's the difference.

 

By the way, PvE commendations also have weekly limits, PvP comms don't; in theory, you can get full Conqueror - which has set bonus, unlike commendation PvE gear - in two days. There are Operation lockouts but no Warzone lockouts.

 

But the point wasn't to say it's harder to gear up for PvE (it is, especially as commendations gear, for the most part, is utter bull excrement - alacrity and a shedload of absorption for Guardian tanks? what the hell?) but that showing up in poor gear has far more severe consequences and impacts other people in a more significant way in PvE than in PvP. That's why no comparisons should be made between turning up in crap gear for PvE and not augmenting for PvP.

[knownastherat]

So, we've been on a couple of threads together, and I can only assume you're a genius because I can never make heads or tails of what you're saying. However, there are a couple of items in the above quote upon which I believe I have the mental acuity to comment.

 

(1) "...some people like Marilyn Manson" - Yes, some people *do* like Marilyn Manson. Also, some people like beer, yoga, and MMOs. Are you making a weak-***ed attempt to insult a subgroup of MMO players because you dislike MM and happen to think everyone else shares your opinion; or, is there something else going on here?

 

(2) "WoW is still popular..." - Actually, the idea that WoW is still "popular" is an urban myth, unless you define "popular" as hemorrhaging subscribers out the wazoo. It's more accurate to say that WoW has a massive installed base that is rapidly dwindling away. You can actually learn about this particularly salient fact by looking at data, which is an activity that I understand geniuses like.

 

(3) "Making it hard for people to interact...is simply not good for social factor." - I'm finding it ironic that in another thread in this forum you have argued *against* premades. To a non-genius such as myself, this seems like talking out of both sides of your mouth. On the one hand, you say we need to make sure everyone has a special, group hug experience in PvP, because the "social factor" is important. On the other hand, you want to prevent friends or guildies from grouping together in PvP because they constitute a "premade".

 

From my limited perspective, there are two types of PvP players: those that play for kicks and those that play to win. Based on what I understand of your definition of "social factor", I happen to think that those that play to win are *more* social; we're the ones trading ideas and strategies, and looking for feedback in-game and on discussion boards such as this. The "players for kicks" spawn in, wave their light sabers around a bit, and then go back to running dailies without saying a word. How does that compute with your "social factor", especially when you actually want to prohibit the highly social act of grouping for WZs?

 

Anyway, I'm sure I'm misunderstanding some or all of what you said, because it's way over my head.

 

(1) Server population/subscription graphs show how SWTOR failed. I do not have recent data, its a James Bond thing for EA, so this will have to do: http://venturebeat.com/2012/07/31/tracking-star-wars-the-old-republics-declining-subscribers/

 

PvP in SWTOR is garbage which is one of the reasons for decline of subscribers. Those who like PvP in SWTOR, as it is, are like those who like Marilyn Manson because they are fringe. I am not sure how its insulting.

 

The good thing is that monthly revenues went up: http://www.polygon.com/2013/5/7/4309866/star-wars-the-old-republic-revenue-doubled-free-to-play

 

(2) Your link does not work but popular just means popular. WoW has several times more subscribers/players than SWTOR.

 

(3) Premades are killing PvP was the title of the thread, respectively premades - groups of highly skilled, experienced, geared and organized players - playing matches against PUGs - groups of random players with various skills, in suboptimal gear and disorganized. The reason is simple as explained several times - its not fun and its not competitive nor its fair.

 

I am not sure what you think typical or average player does when repeatedly matched against such groups - I've noticed the advice is to L2P, get friends, work on gear, download TS, study forum, etc - but I think the average Joe finds such model as garbage and leaves PvP and/or the game.

 

Discouraging the average Joe is simply not good for social factor. Premades can interact with other premades and its not my job to make sure they can do it on appropriate platform.

 

Lastly, I do not quite get what my IQ has to do with anything, but its one number short of leet, 137. It does not qualify as genius, but I will take it as compliment.

Edited November 9, 2013 by knownastherat

[DainjaMouz]

Lastly, I do not quite get what my IQ has to do with anything, but its one number short of leet, 137. It does not qualify as genius, but I will take it as compliment.

Wow, so you actually went there. I guess that makes you part of a fringe group as well: people who flaunt their high IQs? No matter--I shall hereinafter refer to you as "Mr. 137", so that I always remember my place in the world in relation to you.

 

I apologize for the failure of my previous link. Surprising that Mr. 137 would lack the curiosity to go find the information himself, but maybe that's viewed as a waste of intellectual effort by someone of your capacity. In any regard, this should help.

 

I love that Mr. 137 is so magnanimous; he wants for everyone to have fun, like a benevolent god. Actually, an update: hereinafter I shall refer to you as "Lord 137 - God of the Social Factor".

 

Here's the problem with your religion, Lord 137:

 

(1) Friends (or guildies) who like PvP will want to play together;

(2) Said friends (or guildies) who play together over time are going to get better;

(3) At some point those friends playing together, by your definition, are no longer worshipers of the Social Factor. They have become "premades" (queue evil music).

 

The fundamental issue you, Lord 137 - God of the Social Factor, fail to recognize, is that there are lots of people who like "winning" as much as (or more than) your religion. SWTOR has designed a PvP gameplay environment that rewards skill development, appropriate gearing, and team tactics with victories, and you want to penalize players for taking full advantage of everything the PvP environment offers to be successful. That's like putting a plate of cookies in front of a hungry person and telling them not to eat any (hopefully this metaphor is not too simplistic for Lord 137).

 

Perhaps Space Fighter PvP will be the happy fun zone nirvana of your Social Factor religion. If so, you will not have to worry with us lower functionings who happen to enjoy winning more than complimenting other players on their fancy new gear in the middle of a WZ. Until such time, as Baron Deathmark says, "show some respect."

 

EDIT: WoW currently has 7.7M subscribers. The last time they had that few subscribers was 2006. They launched in 2005. If you follow the trendline, they're toast by the end of 2015. Not sure how this qualifies as "popular".

Edited November 9, 2013 by DainjaMouz

[ForsakenKing]

ranked arena that started as a 3v4 (our 4th never loaded). <insert many 4 letter expletives describing BW here>

[knownastherat]

Well, being among 2% of population is a blessing and a curse at the same time

 

As I said in the other thread to someone else .. if you believe PvP in SWTOR is healthy, fun and competitive and if you believe that stuff like earlier debated Augments or evergreen premades are not discouraging players to enter PvP, then we have nothing to talk about as our description of reality differers fundamentally.

[sithBracer]

PvE means no rewards if you fail. If someone shows up drastically undergeared, we will fail at the first boss and get nothing. If someone shows up for PvP drastically undergeared he will be bolstered up so it won't be that noticeable but even if we do fail, we'll get rewards. That's the difference.

 

Ok please try to pay attention because this is going to seem like rocket surgery to you. People don't play PvP just for the rewards. We play for the experience, for the fun, for the thrill of facing something other than a static boss who will do the same thing every time. Now it is very hard to do this when I'm attacking an enemy, doing a lot of damage while my crap geared useless teammate is just getting in the way dragging me down. It is not fun to get steamrolled by your augmented enemy 450-0 in ACV or 600-0 in AH just because your majesties are too above everyone else to get even a few blue augments. Yes both of these happened to me, I-a shadow who came in the middle of the match-was #2 in damage, which is pathetic. And no they weren't great at focusing fire, they just crushed us with gear.

 

You seem to preoccupied with rewards for some reason. If rewards were all that it was about we could all just afk at the node and get defender points and get all our rewards. In PvE and PvP people try their best to get through, get the new gear to advance to the next level.

 

In PvE this is a long process of getting gear through sm, going on to hm, getting better gear and finally doing NiM. In PvP it is the same except because you are facing other people the starting curve is steeper. Thanks to the bolster the starting curve is better than it used to be, but the gear gap is still there and that gear gap is augments. Think about, to come into an sm ops (not classic ones) you have to get a lot of gear, at least 162 (156 if you are a good player). You don't have to be BiS with 180s but you need to be reasonably geared to not be a burden on your team. It's the same in PvP, you don't have to be in full obroan with purple augments just to start, heck you can be in level 1 greens even, all you have to do is get a few blue augments. It's not tough and does not cost a lot. Not coming in with at least a few augments is like coming into an op with level 100 greens. Just because you still get rewards doesn't change the embarrassing defeat you have to suffer because of your selfish useless teammates who would rather waste their time trying to justify their selfishness and uselessness on the boards than actually do something about it.

[sithBracer]

As I said in the other thread to someone else .. if you believe PvP in SWTOR is healthy, fun and competitive and if you believe that stuff like earlier debated Augments or evergreen premades are not discouraging players to enter PvP, then we have nothing to talk about as our description of reality differers fundamentally.

 

Of course gear discourages people from entering PvP, that is why bolster was created. You really misunderstood the entire augment argument. Yes it's discouraging going into a fight hitting the op healer over and over while she ignores you, just sits and heal. So f*cking do something about it. Get a few blue augments instead of arguing here. It's not about fair or unfair, it's about what you have and don't have control over. You can easily get blue augments, you can't force Bioware to negate the effects of augments. You can get better, team up with friends, try to come up with a quick strategy in the beginning so your team doesn't run like chickens with their heads cut off. You can't force bioware to stop people from grouping together. And remember, if you don't like how bioware made the game, you have the ultimate freedom to leave. If enough people do maybe bioware will actually listen to some requests and make it better.

[Seireeni]

Love how you turned the discussion about augments into a strawman you could demonize, mock and generally slap around. Seriously, what role are you playing in this conversation, and why do you feel obligated to defend the fact that you're perfectly happy pugging around in krap gear unconcerned for how it affects others' enjoyment of the game? Does it make you feel better to jump into the fray and announce to us, voice dripping with sarcasm, that those of us who choose to focus on PvP take the game "way too seriously"? I mean, you've made your point--loud and proud--that we can expect you to continue lowering the odds of whatever PvP team members have the misfortune to be grouped with you, and that you don't care at all what we think about it. Do you have ANYTHING else useful to say? Or, do you just happen to enjoy rubbing our noses in your poo?

 

You are accusing me of something I'm not (at least intentionally) doing. I am merely disagreeing with the idea of "no matter what gear you are wearing otherwise, if you don't have augments, it's undergeared". Which is what you have been telling me for a while now. Your gear is level 45 greens? Don't worry, the bolster will fix it, but you're missing augments? That's the end of the world.

Perhaps there has been some sort of miscommunication? What I have understood from your texts, it's clearly better for me not to use my pvp gear i.e. on my sage, because my sage's pve gear has augments in some pieces. I take it this is not what you meant?

 

Though, I may seem a little aggressive, I apologize that. I do that when I feel defensive.

And, tbh, if someone cares about a game so much, that he/she hates a person who plays it differently, imo he/she is taking it too seriously. But I guess people disagree with me in this. (Someone literally used to word "hate", which I find more than a little extreme.)

 

Ummmm....you do realize that you can still get your 3 skills on those 4 toons right? And make and see stuff to increase cashflow after re'ing it to blue right? Just curious.

 

I've thought of that, and even tried it once, but the problem is, again, that I play my level 55s so rarely. Leveling a crafting skill takes a lot of time, and I'm pretty sure I'll get my lowbies with crafting skills to level 55 before I'd get my level 55s crafting skills to anywhere near max level. But yeah, maybe I should consider that again, even if it took 6 months or more to get those skills.

[Technohic]

What I have understood from your texts, it's clearly better for me not to use my pvp gear i.e. on my sage, because my sage's pve gear has augments in some pieces. I take it this is not what you meant?

 

.

 

It probably is better to use your PvE with augments than un-augmented PvP gear; yes. Unless your augments are for presence or something.

[sithBracer]

You are accusing me of something I'm not (at least intentionally) doing. I am merely disagreeing with the idea of "no matter what gear you are wearing otherwise, if you don't have augments, it's undergeared". Which is what you have been telling me for a while now. Your gear is level 45 greens? Don't worry, the bolster will fix it, but you're missing augments? That's the end of the world.

 

That is correct. Your 45 greens will be bolstered and you will automatically get 2018 expertise. For example I have a few 148 blues, a 41 green hand armor, a 100 shield, a 100 double lightsaber, a relic that gives me 22 power and 15 end, a 32 matrix cube relic and everything else is all over the place, yet I am currently bolstered to around 2300 wp, 2800 end, 2018 expertise, 1600+ melee damage and I think 600+ bonus damage (could be 700+). In fact when I tried to put a 140 purple in my hand slot, my stats went down. If I put in 14 blue augments that would give me an extra 392 main stat and an extra 252 endurance (those are nothing to laugh about). The reason is because augments are ignored by the bolster, they are extra. So yes, while I wouldn't use them in ranked, augmented greens are better than unaugmented PvP pieces.

 

 

I've thought of that, and even tried it once, but the problem is, again, that I play my level 55s so rarely. Leveling a crafting skill takes a lot of time, and I'm pretty sure I'll get my lowbies with crafting skills to level 55 before I'd get my level 55s crafting skills to anywhere near max level. But yeah, maybe I should consider that again, even if it took 6 months or more to get those skills.

 

Well if you play them so rarely, do everyone a favor and play so rarely that you don't PvP.

 

And it is much easier to learn crafting skills with a 55 because you can send out the max number of companions while in lowbies you are limited to a smaller number (not to mention you need one of the companions to actually survive).

[Seireeni]

It probably is better to use your PvE with augments than un-augmented PvP gear; yes. Unless your augments are for presence or something.

 

Okay, then I can do what I mentioned above - instead of buying pvp gear, I could buy credit boxes and augment my pve-gear with it. Saves me money, actually (Don't have to buy two sets of orange gear, in example).