why are sentinels the "lightsaber masters"?

[TwistedTony]

When you pick your AC, the trainer explains that "sentinels are the lightsaber masters of our order". Why sentinels and not guardians included? What makes the sentinel the lightsaber master? Cuz they dual wield? Did dual welding suddenly become superior over the single blade? I don't understand this.

[slafko]

Dual-wielding did not suddenly become superior, it's been that way probably since we - as a species - started writing things down.

[Senrie]

I was slightly annoyed by this as well. Sentinels are described in KOTOR and the Jedi Path manual as a middle path with Guardians being the combat masters. TOR probably did it just to make it clear the Sentinel AC is more damaged focused than Guardian.

[TwistedTony]

Dual-wielding did not suddenly become superior, it's been that way probably since we - as a species - started writing things down.

 

How is it superior?

[Korikana]

Pick up 1 stick when you next go for a walk, swing it around like a prat - then pick up another and do the same, come back here when you have lost an eye and tell us how long it took

[Helig]

Pick up 1 stick when you next go for a walk, swing it around like a prat - then pick up another and do the same, come back here when you have lost an eye and tell us how long it took

Yeah.... Swordfighting doesn't work this way. Unless you believe that our Jedi and Sith are laymen with glowsticks.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Helig

[TwistedTony]

Yeah.... Swordfighting doesn't work this way. Unless you believe that our Jedi and Sith are laymen with glowsticks.

 

...ok my question still stands.

[TwistedTony]

Bump. No one has a sound explanation to this?

[ban-canal]

good point though ive got no idea

[ArenCordial]

Its basically just a bunch of bs that tells players Sentinel > Guardian for dps. Back in the original KotOR duel wielding was mechanically superior to single blade for whatever reason as single blade/two-blade weren't balanced. Since it was a singleplayer game it didn't really matter however the developers continued the tradition into the mmo. In fact if I remember right very early in the development of TOR the Guardian was a tank class only and the Sentinel the dps class. Only after an outcry did the developers realized that people wanted to play a single bladed dps and it was best not to lock tank/healer classes into those roles only.

 

I think its also partly a result of the Drizzt effect that being two swords = cool. Frankly if it was superior you'd think all the best duelists would have been two saber wielders but that's not the case in the movies and most lore. All the best duelists were single blade wielders. Sidious, Yoda, Anakin, Obi-Wan, Mace etc and this trend continues throughout most the EU. So if you're asking to have this make sense, it doesn't. Its just game mechanics influencing flavor text.

 

Now I saw elsewhere you asked about the Weaponmaster name. That I believe originates from an old WEG d6 RPG book for the Tales of the Jedi setting where one of the player archetypes was a Jedi Weaponmaster who's picture showed a Jedi wielding two sabers.

[TwistedTony]

Idk cuz even in the clone wars, dual weilding seems superior. Like u said, all those jedi did use a single blade, but they could also dual weild. For example, sidious used dual sabers to defeat maul and savage. And maul even took up another saber just to keep up with sidious. Anakin took up another saber too when he faced that one chick in the clone wars season finale (forgot her name). And obi wan took up two sabers when facing savage and maul. Malgus did the same in the return trailer. He cOuld not defeat that jedi WITH his master, but than he picks up another saber and he wastes him. Its like even the lore is saying dual welding is superior...

[ArenCordial]

Idk cuz even in the clone wars, dual weilding seems superior. Like u said, all those jedi did use a single blade, but they could also dual weild. For example, sidious used dual sabers to defeat maul and savage. And maul even took up another saber just to keep up with sidious. Anakin took up another saber too when he faced that one chick in the clone wars season finale (forgot her name). And obi wan took up two sabers when facing savage and maul. Malgus did the same in the return trailer. He cOuld not defeat that jedi WITH his master, but than he picks up another saber and he wastes him. Its like even the lore is saying dual welding is superior...

 

Then why don't they always carry two? Nothing in the Jedi Order says you only need to carry one. In the EU some Jedi still did even around the Clone Wars (Serra Keto was one). The Sith certainly wouldn't have any compulsions against it. I think it boils down to "oooooo....cool" effect it has. Its flashy and it looks pretty.

 

Remember Anakin tried it against Dooku in AotC and that didn't work. He did much better single bladed. Really I don't think its definitely better one way or the other. Its the warrior that matters not the saber type.

Edited October 30, 2013 by ArenCordial

[TwistedTony]

Then why don't they always carry two? Nothing in the Jedi Order says you only need to carry one. In the EU some Jedi still did even around the Clone Wars (Serra Keto was one). The Sith certainly wouldn't have any compulsions against it. I think it boils down to "oooooo....cool" effect it has. Its flashy and it looks pretty.

 

Remember Anakin tried it against Dooku in AotC and that didn't work. He did much better single bladed. Really I don't think its definitely better one way or the other. Its the warrior that matters not the saber type.

 

There has to be a way to ask the devs about this...

[Ravrohan]

Really I don't think its definitely better one way or the other. Its the warrior that matters not the saber type.

 

I think this is the important thing. In lore though, dual wielding a lightsaber was considered extremely difficult since it requires double the focus of wielding one, which was already considered a feat only made practical through the force. Someone who could dual wield proficiently and regularly was rare, though it wasn't so rare to do so sporadically for a limited amount of time like in the examples above.

 

That, and Sentinels in SWTOR are dedicated to their weapon, that's where most of their skills lie, manipulation of their lightsabers, wheras the other Jedi/Sith classes have higher degrees of force use. It's the focus of their skills, the theme and the lore behind wielding dual sabers that makes them the masters. It takes more skill to use a saber in each hand than it does one saber in two hands, just to keep the force user from killing themselves.

[slafko]

How is it superior?

How is it not?

[TwistedTony]

I think this is the important thing. In lore though, dual wielding a lightsaber was considered extremely difficult since it requires double the focus of wielding one, which was already considered a feat only made practical through the force. Someone who could dual wield proficiently and regularly was rare, though it wasn't so rare to do so sporadically for a limited amount of time like in the examples above.

 

That, and Sentinels in SWTOR are dedicated to their weapon, that's where most of their skills lie, manipulation of their lightsabers, wheras the other Jedi/Sith classes have higher degrees of force use. It's the focus of their skills, the theme and the lore behind wielding dual sabers that makes them the masters. It takes more skill to use a saber in each hand than it does one saber in two hands, just to keep the force user from killing themselves.

 

Ok now THIS makes a lot of sense. And def is the best answer I've heard so far.

[Ravrohan]

Happy to help

[Righness]

I think this is the important thing. In lore though, dual wielding a lightsaber was considered extremely difficult since it requires double the focus of wielding one, which was already considered a feat only made practical through the force. Someone who could dual wield proficiently and regularly was rare, though it wasn't so rare to do so sporadically for a limited amount of time like in the examples above.

 

That, and Sentinels in SWTOR are dedicated to their weapon, that's where most of their skills lie, manipulation of their lightsabers, wheras the other Jedi/Sith classes have higher degrees of force use. It's the focus of their skills, the theme and the lore behind wielding dual sabers that makes them the masters. It takes more skill to use a saber in each hand than it does one saber in two hands, just to keep the force user from killing themselves.

 

Although I agree with everything you said. I take it a step further with live combat. I am by no means an expert but I have trained in the past with different forms of weapons; swords, nunchucks, staffs, etc and dual wielding is the pure offense/defense form. Having a blade in each hand is extremely difficult to control effectively in comparison to one, like you said in lightsaber form it exemplifies it even more so. Dual wielding takes control, focus, training, instinct, and awareness of virtually everything going on around you. Very dangerous to perfect and use aggressively.

 

My only gripe in the gaming sense is that dual wielding can be used defensive too, one blade always used for blocking, parrying, etc while the other one is being used aggressively. I just wish they considered this in the tree design. Just the type of defense may actually cause damage also.

[ArenCordial]

Although I agree with everything you said. I take it a step further with live combat. I am by no means an expert but I have trained in the past with different forms of weapons; swords, nunchucks, staffs, etc and dual wielding is the pure offense/defense form. Having a blade in each hand is extremely difficult to control effectively in comparison to one, like you said in lightsaber form it exemplifies it even more so. Dual wielding takes control, focus, training, instinct, and awareness of virtually everything going on around you. Very dangerous to perfect and use aggressively.

 

My only gripe in the gaming sense is that dual wielding can be used defensive too, one blade always used for blocking, parrying, etc while the other one is being used aggressively. I just wish they considered this in the tree design. Just the type of defense may actually cause damage also.

 

I'd say Saber Screen is sort of trying to take that idea and put it in a talent.

[TwistedTony]

While you can defend with two sabers, I think the devs felt that heavy armor protected a person better than a second saber

[Ravrohan]

While you can defend with two sabers, I think the devs felt that heavy armor protected a person better than a second saber

 

I think this is the heart of it. Dual wielding can be very defensive or offensive, and the easiest way to represent the defensive side of just having two weapons would have been to give sentinels a higher base defense %. With all the CD's ontop of it though, it probably would have been OP. To keep a class distinction, the people with heavy armor got to be the most defensive group of Jedi.

 

Lore wise, using anything other than the standard single saber was considered more aggressive anyway. So to the Jedi mindset, two sabers meant more potential carnage.

[Gloomycakes]

In the books I've read so far Jedi Sentinel usually represents what now the Jedi Shadow does:

Focussed in a balance between Force and Lightsaber (and even non-Jedi techniques such as medicine, demolition and such.) There's a specialization how-ever (Combat) that focusses on 2-saber combat; Through years of training the Sentinel lears the art of using two Lightsabers simutaneously to create an intricate web of damage that is almost impossible to evade. (The Jedi Path)

 

The Maurauder description from Darth Bane: Path of Destruction "Those with a noticeable but limited ability are sent to Honoghr, Gentes, or Gamorr to become Sith Warriors or Marauders. There they are taught to channel their emotions into mindless rage and battle fury. The power of the dark side transforms them into ravaging

beasts of death and destruction to be unleashed against our enemies." Something I think fits the Marauder, with them dropping the defence for a full offensive attack with 2 lightsabers and every class needs their mirror.

 

I also assume it's more difficult to dual wield, especially with glowsticks of death that burn through your arm (or any other bodypart) when something goes wrong. On top of being completely focussed on damage (in the game) making Lightsaber Masters a fitting title if you ask me. I feel like a proper geek now.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Gloomycakes

[Ravrohan]

In the books I've read so far Jedi Sentinel usually represents what now the Jedi Shadow does:

Focussed in a balance between Force and Lightsaber (and even non-Jedi techniques such as medicine, demolition and such.) There's a specialization how-ever (Combat) that focusses on 2-saber combat; Through years of training the Sentinel lears the art of using two Lightsabers simutaneously to create an intricate web of damage that is almost impossible to evade. (The Jedi Path)

 

The Maurauder description from Darth Bane: Path of Destruction "Those with a noticeable but limited ability are sent to Honoghr, Gentes, or Gamorr to become Sith Warriors or Marauders. There they are taught to channel their emotions into mindless rage and battle fury. The power of the dark side transforms them into ravaging

beasts of death and destruction to be unleashed against our enemies." Something I think fits the Marauder, with them dropping the defence for a full offensive attack with 2 lightsabers and every class needs their mirror.

 

I also assume it's more difficult to dual wield, especially with glowsticks of death that burn through your arm (or any other bodypart) when something goes wrong. On top of being completely focussed on damage (in the game) making Lightsaber Masters a fitting title if you ask me. I feel like a proper geek now.

 

This is good stuff ^_^

 

The lore for Sentinels is completly different now than from before the mmo class came out. Originally the Sentinel was the detective or troubleshooter of the Jedi order. The Jedi most likely to know how to deal with all things tech and the Jedi most likely to work with police. The Shadows were a subset of the Sentinels whose focus was specific to locating, running down and if need be eradicating anything dark side related. Sentinels and Shadows both weren't as trusted by the rest of the Jedi, because they were in more constant contact with dark side corruption and sometimes had to walk a fine line. Quinlan Voss from the clone wars era was a good example of the original Sentinel/Shadow.

[slafko]

Ooooh, a Sentinel/Shadow. Is that like Kao Cen Darach in the "Return" trailer wielding a double-bladed and a regular lightsaber at the same time? If yes, I'm trading in my shadow's shield for a lightsaber.

[Mockmaw]

Keep in mind, Mace Windu, often considered the best lightsaber fighter in history, formed a couple styles specifically geared for combat and could use two sabers. Very difficult to train, but once mastered, it was considered the best lightsaber form out there. I believe only a handful of jedi's ever mastered it.

 

'During the latter years of the Republic, Jedi Master Mace Windu developed Vaapad with the aid of fellow master Sora Bulq, by drawing inspiration from the movements of a creature,[2] known as both the Vaapad and the Juyo,[17] native to the planet Sarapin. Vaapad users appeared to wield many lightsabers at once, moving too fast to see, just as the vaapad creature would attack with blindingly fast tentacles that were impossible to count until the vaapad was dead. A Vaapad user's attacks would flow into each other with liquid precision, creating the constant near-invisible weave of energy which was the ready-stance of Vaapad. It was also possible to apply Vaapad in unarmed combat, with the user's arms becoming too fast to see, as well as in the use of dual lightsabers.[2] While observing the duel between Darth Sidious and Mace Windu, Anakin Skywalker considered Windu's Vaapad bladework to be "an oblate sphere of purple fire" which contained dozens of blades attacking from every angle.'