Darth Vader vs Darth Nox

[BacaWicket]

Who do you think would win in a duel?

 

If it's vader before his injuries, vader hands down but if after injuries then i think nox has an edge

[LadyKulvax]

Vader's prime is in the suit, this is clearly obvious throughout the books he appears in.

 

Now the only real argument we have to get into here is this: does Nox's immortality make the Dark Council member immune to Vader's overwhelming offence? I doubt it.

 

However, does Nox have hard enough hitting force based assaults that would simply kill Vader? i am not certain but going off of how Vader performed against much more powerful Force Users and survived on multiple occasions, I think Vader would come out on top of this.

 

This wouldn't be a kill, but it would be a defeat for Nox nevertheless.

[cs_zoltan]

Vader's prime is in the suit, this is clearly obvious throughout the books he appears in.

 

Can you give source for that? I'm not denying your credibility, just interested to read it

[BacaWicket]

Vader's prime is in the suit, this is clearly obvious throughout the books he appears in.

 

Now the only real argument we have to get into here is this: does Nox's immortality make the Dark Council member immune to Vader's overwhelming offence? I doubt it.

 

However, does Nox have hard enough hitting force based assaults that would simply kill Vader? i am not certain but going off of how Vader performed against much more powerful Force Users and survived on multiple occasions, I think Vader would come out on top of this.

 

This wouldn't be a kill, but it would be a defeat for Nox nevertheless.

 

Nox has force lightening and if that's not enough try force storm. lightening is vader's cryptonite. because of this he is the only character who stands a chance against vader

[AshlaBoga]

After injuries it's heavily in Nox's favour.

[Makoto_Shishio]

Nox has force lightening and if that's not enough try force storm. lightening is vader's cryptonite. because of this he is the only character who stands a chance against vader

No it isn't.

 

He's been shown to take the full force of Galen Mareks lightning(lightning that was powerful to obliterate entire ATAT-s) in the first TFU with little to no effect and the Starrkiller clones lightning amped up with 3 pylons and the skys lightning did little to nothing once more other than making Vader kneel.

 

Other force abilities like Force drain would haveno effect since Vader has an immunity to these type of attacks as was demonstrated in the clone wars against the dark reaper(Ulic gave and taught Anakin an immunity to force drain attacks).

Edited October 24, 2013 by Makoto_Shishio

[ZooMzy]

No it isn't.

 

He's been shown to take the full force of Galen Mareks lightning(lightning that was powerful to obliterate entire ATAT-s) in the first TFU with little to no effect and the Starrkiller clones lightning amped up with 3 pylons and the skys lightning did little to nothing once more other than making Vader kneel.

 

And what happened to Vader in that duel? He got beaten to a pulp; it's only successful tanking if he manages to overcome the attacks.

 

Secondly, Nox had not only the power to wield powerful Force Lightning, but the ability to command an entire storm of it. I'd say a Force Lightning Storm would easily tear apart ATATs in the lore.

 

Considering that Nox also has the potential to be a double bladed lightsaber wielder, he also holds an advantage over Vader in lightsaber combat, as Vader has no record of being capable of adapting to unique, nimble and quick movements that the dual sided saber undoubtedly brings into a fight. The fact that he could also send lightning coursing through the blade as a charge would also be enough to weaken Vader, as the mechanical suit has clearly shown a weakness to substantial use of lightning.

 

Let's also not forget that Nox holds the power gained from the Force walk ritual, which is basically the strength of two post KOTOR era Darths along with the right hand of Ludo Kressh and a Jedi Master turned Sith from the Mandalorian Wars/The Jedi Civil War.

 

Other force abilities like Force drain would haveno effect since Vader has an immunity to these type of attacks as was demonstrated in the clone wars against the dark reaper(Ulic gave and taught Anakin an immunity to force drain attacks).

 

This may prove useful in regards to the Force Drain concept, but I don't see how a technique that makes him immune to a draining effect of the Dark Ravager now suddenly makes him immune to similar types of Force powers?

[Makoto_Shishio]

And what happened to Vader in that duel? He got beaten to a pulp; it's only successful tanking if he manages to overcome the attacks.

That was only after Galen achieved clarity. My whole poin ist just because a particular force user has lightning, it does not give him an edge over Vader, whom once again has shown to tank lightning to various degrees with little to no effect on his suit.

 

Vader has also been shown to block force attacks powerful enough to kill his stormtroopers around him.

 

BTW Galen beat Vader to a pulp through sheer force, not through force lightning.

Secondly, Nox had not only the power to wield powerful Force Lightning, but the ability to command an entire storm of it. I'd say a Force Lightning Storm would easily tear apart ATATs in the lore.

Prove it. The nightsisters of dathomir whom are vastly inferior force users compared to the prowess of the top tier sith are able to summon a storm of force lightning from the sky, it doesn't mean that just because you can summon a storm of lightning, that you can take down entire military tanks with ease or the Sith during the TOR timeline should have been able to bring down the entire republic military without a single casualty.

 

Very few force users are able to use lightning on such a scale and power with the exception of Palpatine, Vitiate and Galen Marek.

 

 

Considering that Nox also has the potential to be a double bladed lightsaber wielder, he also holds an advantage over Vader in lightsaber combat,

Which again is bollocks, since when does wielding a double bladed lightsaber gives you an edge? Vader has mastered all 7 forms of lightsaber combat and merged it into a singular style that made his attacks and defenses [/i]unpredictable[/i](Source: Rise of Darth Vader)

 

He's faced opponents like Maul who did wield a double bladed lightsaber and guess what? He didn't fall so easily, he was actually evenly matched.

as Vader has no record of being capable of adapting to unique, nimble and quick movements that the dual sided saber undoubtedly brings into a fight.

See the above, you clearly haven't paid any attention to the EU about Vader, he's faced Darth Maul and his double bladed lightsaber, he's faced the starkiller clone with dual sabers(and not to mention that he couldn't beat Vader in a duel until he had to summon a force lightning storm amplified by 3 gigantic pylons making it even deadlier combined with the natural lightning of Kaminos sky, all of which didn't even harm Vader much except bring him to kneel)

The fact that he could also send lightning coursing through the blade as a charge would also be enough to weaken Vader, as the mechanical suit has clearly shown a weakness to substantial use of lightning.

And his "substantial weakness" to lightning has been disproven numerous times in the TFU saga.

Let's also not forget that Nox holds the power gained from the Force walk ritual, which is basically the strength of two post KOTOR era Darths along with the right hand of Ludo Kressh and a Jedi Master turned Sith from the Mandalorian Wars/The Jedi Civil War.

Meaning?

 

 

This may prove useful in regards to the Force Drain concept, but I don't see how a technique that makes him immune to a draining effect of the Dark Ravager now suddenly makes him immune to similar types of Force powers?

Was just raising an additional point.

 

Vader isn't as weak as many people put him out to be. He's shown an impressive resistance on 2 occasions against powerful bursts of both Force lightning and Force lightning storm.

 

He's been shown to casually defeat Jedi that could pull entire space stations apart, defeat Jedi that could walk through walls(the dark lady), been shown to be powerful enough in the force to grip a Y-wing bomber out of the sky(its in one of the new comics) and slam it on the ground, collapse entire cathedrals with his rage and his skills with the lightsaber are no slouch either considering that he was quick enough to deflect a planatery turbo laser(the same one that shot down an entire star destroyer) back at it.

[Kaedusz]

Nox is a proper Sith + has much more in his arsenal than mere Force Lightning/Storm ,including advanced Sith Sorcery and pure raw power (and saberstaff proficiency though this would be immaterial in a fight between them)

Also Nox is more knowledgeable about the Dark Side in general and more deeply immersed in it.

 

On the other hand Vader's Force powers are kinda nothing that can surprise Nox, with the added strength of being generated by a useless and mutilated torso of the Chosen one,stripped of its original power.Also he never really went beyond being a jedi with emotional issues.He is not a proper Sith.

He is a bunch of talent and potential all went to waste.Yes he eventually became more powerful in some aspects than before while in the suit ,but even in it(suit) he could have been more than he was if his mind was in the right place,etc.

 

Don't think Vader can win this.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Kaedusz

[ZooMzy]

That was only after Galen achieved clarity. My whole poin ist just because a particular force user has lightning, it does not give him an edge over Vader, whom once again has shown to tank lightning to various degrees with little to no effect on his suit.

 

His suit became a crutch in the face of overwhelm outputs of lightning. Hence why Galen's attacks ultimately crushed him in addition to the overwhelming powers he displayed, but after the beat down, Vader's breathing and overall function was deteriorated.

 

Thus, lightning is a weakness for him because he has to protect it. Making a known proficient lightning users like Nox capable of being Vader's worst nightmare.

 

Vader has also been shown to block force attacks powerful enough to kill his stormtroopers around him.

 

Lol, because Stormtroopers have such strong resistance to the Force?

 

In that case, does this mean Nox wins since he has a Dashade, that is immune to the Force and EATS Force users, recognizing that he is a worthy power house to serve?

 

BTW Galen beat Vader to a pulp through sheer force, not through force lightning.

 

It was a combination of sorts, correct. But Vader's suit showed clear deterioration from the lightning attacks, as sheer force attacks have never hindered the complete operation of his suit besides lightning.

 

Prove it. The nightsisters of dathomir whom are vastly inferior force users compared to the prowess of the top tier sith are able to summon a storm of force lightning from the sky, it doesn't mean that just because you can summon a storm of lightning, that you can take down entire military tanks with ease or the Sith during the TOR timeline should have been able to bring down the entire republic military without a single casualty.

 

My proof: the game. The abilities shown by both ACs are recognized as actual feats Darth Nox is technically capable of, and I'm pretty sure I can pull up a cutscene or two of the Force Storm in use if you really want.

 

Secondly, I had hoped you wouldn't rate Nox as Nightsister level power, which is clearly inaccurate. Technique is important, but power comes into the picture as well too.

 

And if you really don't have a clue as to how powerful a Dark Councilor with mastery over the Dark Side of the Force and wields more than 4 notable Force ghosts in addition to his own strength, I suggest you revisit the Inquisitor storyline.

 

Very few force users are able to use lightning on such a scale and power with the exception of Palpatine, Vitiate and Galen Marek.

 

See above. Hopefully I put that ignorant claim to rest.

 

Which again is bollocks, since when does wielding a double bladed lightsaber gives you an edge? Vader has mastered all 7 forms of lightsaber combat and merged it into a singular style that made his attacks and defenses [/i]unpredictable[/i](Source: Rise of Darth Vader)

 

In a duel, the weapons used always determine a substantial strategy to the battle. Please tell me you really can't see the difference between dueling a skilled warrior with a single sword vs. dueling someone with a dual sided lightsaber.

 

Secondly, Vader has no proof or feats listed in terms of capability against a dual sided wielding Force user. Except for....

 

He's faced opponents like Maul who did wield a double bladed lightsaber and guess what? He didn't fall so easily, he was actually evenly matched.

 

Actually, Maul was the only one he fought, as a clone. And you might want to read that comic again; Maul was toying with Vader the entire time and literally beating him to a pulp. Vader just pulled a win from nowhere.

 

If we eliminated the need to preserve Vader for the timeline, he realistically loses to fast, nimble, and quick movements that a young and skilled fighter can do. Which if you look at Nox in his prime, he is.

 

See the above, you clearly haven't paid any attention to the EU about Vader, he's faced Darth Maul and his double bladed lightsaber, he's faced the starkiller clone with dual sabers(and not to mention that he couldn't beat Vader in a duel until he had to summon a force lightning storm amplified by 3 gigantic pylons making it even deadlier combined with the natural lightning of Kaminos sky, all of which didn't even harm Vader much except bring him to kneel)

And his "substantial weakness" to lightning has been disproven numerous times in the TFU saga.

Meaning?

 

See above. Power of Darth Nox in regards to Force lightning, its potency, and effects on Vader have been listed. Also keep in mind that Vader's powers are also exaggerated in most cases of the EU, where inconsistencies are easily notable.

 

Vader isn't as weak as many people put him out to be. He's shown an impressive resistance on 2 occasions against powerful bursts of both Force lightning and Force lightning storm.

 

He's been shown to casually defeat Jedi that could pull entire space stations apart, defeat Jedi that could walk through walls(the dark lady), been shown to be powerful enough in the force to grip a Y-wing bomber out of the sky(its in one of the new comics) and slam it on the ground, collapse entire cathedrals with his rage and his skills with the lightsaber are no slouch either considering that he was quick enough to deflect a planatery turbo laser(the same one that shot down an entire star destroyer) back at it.

 

In comparison to Darth Nox, not really impressive. I already have shown his failings when it comes to lightsaber dueling with the case of Darth Maul, where he loses against more athletic opponents using a kind of fighting style Vader is too slow to match up with.

 

Considering how this style was also enough for a Sith that wasn't very apt in the Force as Darth Nox would be, Vader loses on that point alone.

 

Secondly, Nox has an impressive track record of his own, detailing as far as toppling powerful Darths, Jedi Masters, countless Lords, along with defeating powerful forces in the end game content such as the Dread Masters (until EA declares which storyline is canon, along with the exact make up of who defeated them). After injuries Vader isn't being questioned as weak, but you can not deny that ultimately, his machine enhancements will be a crutch for him because he has to spend a great deal of effort to resist attacks specifically weakening it (Which, even in TFU, he is weakened by strong outputs of lightning.)

[Aurbere]

Nox is a proper Sith + has much more in his arsenal than mere Force Lightning/Storm ,including advanced Sith Sorcery and pure raw power (and saberstaff proficiency though this would be immaterial in a fight between them)

Also Nox is more knowledgeable about the Dark Side in general and more deeply immersed in it.

 

On the other hand Vader's Force powers are kinda nothing that can surprise Nox, with the added strength of being generated by a useless and mutilated torso of the Chosen one,stripped of its original power.Also he never really went beyond being a jedi with emotional issues.He is not a proper Sith.

He is a bunch of talent and potential all went to waste.Yes he eventually became more powerful in some aspects than before while in the suit ,but even in it(suit) he could have been more than he was if his mind was in the right place,etc.

 

Don't think Vader can win this.

 

This is the same argument you use every single time we see a 'Vader vs.' thread. You'll probably just rehash this argument if a 'Vader vs. Scout' thread appeared.

[Aurbere]

Secondly, Vader has no proof or feats listed in terms of capability against a dual sided wielding Force user. Except for....

 

Except for Galen Marek? Wrong.

[Beniboybling]

No it isn't.

 

He's been shown to take the full force of Galen Mareks lightning(lightning that was powerful to obliterate entire ATAT-s) in the first TFU with little to no effect and the Starrkiller clones lightning amped up with 3 pylons and the skys lightning did little to nothing once more other than making Vader kneel.

 

Other force abilities like Force drain would haveno effect since Vader has an immunity to these type of attacks as was demonstrated in the clone wars against the dark reaper(Ulic gave and taught Anakin an immunity to force drain attacks).

Game mechanics are superseded by the novel's interpretation in terms of canon i.e. that's not actually what happened. I haven't read the book myself so I don't know if Marek is capable of destroying walkers but he did not blast Vader with lightning amped up with three pylons etc.

 

What actually happened is that Vader beat him in a lightsaber duel, Vader then let his guard down and Marek blasted him with lightning - he was instantly subdued. This same Marek also stunned Vader with a blast of lightning before escaping from Kamino. He may personally not be vulnerable, but his suit certainly is.

 

Anyway concerning this fight, I don't think we possess enough information on Nox outside of game mechanics to really make an effect judgement and ends up coming down to favoritism. However I'd speculate that Nox would at least be capable of winning, the powers he gained from Force walking make him extremely deadly. Vader's suit would certainly take a heavy and potentially devastating beating - which could be his downfall.

 

But I'm not about to commit to anyone side completely. We can really only guess as Nox's power in relation to Vader.

[Darkelefantos]

However I'd speculate that Nox would at least be capable of winning, the powers he gained from Force walking make him extremely deadly. Vader's suit would certainly take a heavy and potentially devastating beating - which could be his downfall.

 

Of course he has the theoretical potential to beat Vader.

But the powers he gained from the Force walk ritual are overrated. In the end, all the ghosts give him is the inability to die. Other than that, the powers Nox uses are his own. The ghosts are a shortcut to his full potential - Nox's personal hyperbolic time chamber, if you allow this DBZ reference. Which is why Nox could let them go and be fine, power wise.

Also, the ghosts are not that impressive, if you look at them. Horak-mul? Alright, he's something, but not the greatest ever. Darth Andruu? Who even is that guy? Lord Ergast? Well, he created the Force walk, but couldn't manage more than a single ghost. And don't even get me started on that last one.

 

Also, everyone bases Vader's potential loss on the premise that he permits his foe to hit him with Force Lightning. But I doubt he's stupid enough to let that happen in a way that could endanger his life supports.

Suffice to say Vader would most likely beat Nox in a Lightsaber battle.

Edited October 25, 2013 by Darkelefantos

[Beniboybling]

Also, everyone bases Vader's potential loss on the premise that he permits his foe to hit him with Force Lightning. But I doubt he's stupid enough to let that happen in a way that could endanger his life supports. Suffice to say Vader would most likely beat Nox in a Lightsaber battle.

Force storm. Just pointing it out.

[Aurbere]

The question we have to ask is: What kind of gear is Nox in?

 

But really, any player that's equipped in Darth Vader's armor is obviously hacking and probably has godmode enabled.

[ZooMzy]

Except for Galen Marek? Wrong.

 

Show me when Galen Marek wielded a double sided lightsaber in combat against Vader, please.

 

"Dual sided" is not the same as "dual wielding". Read next time

 

Of course he has the theoretical potential to beat Vader.

But the powers he gained from the Force walk ritual are overrated. In the end, all the ghosts give him is the inability to die. Other than that, the powers Nox uses are his own. The ghosts are a shortcut to his full potential - Nox's personal hyperbolic time chamber, if you allow this DBZ reference. Which is why Nox could let them go and be fine, power wise.

 

I'd consider the better DBZ reference being that of Majin Buu's absorptions rather than the HTC. He absorbed the ghosts and gained their power, in addition to his own. Whether or not he can let them go is where the difference comes from, as Buu couldn't release his absorbees and keep their power, but the concept is relatively the same.

 

Also, the ghosts are not that impressive, if you look at them. Horak-mul? Alright, he's something, but not the greatest ever. Darth Andruu? Who even is that guy? Lord Ergast? Well, he created the Force walk, but couldn't manage more than a single ghost. And don't even get me started on that last one.

 

Both Andruu and Ergast are actually considered to be Darths in recognition, so their powers aren't exactly weak and meaningless. Horak-mul is a massive addition, and Zavros was a Jedi Master turned Sith during the Mandalorian Wars/The Jedi Civil War. That means they're all worth something, in their own rights.

 

Those 4 powers combined in addition to a Lord of the Sith during the TOR era should easily be enough to topple an after injuries Vader.

 

Also, everyone bases Vader's potential loss on the premise that he permits his foe to hit him with Force Lightning. But I doubt he's stupid enough to let that happen in a way that could endanger his life supports.

Suffice to say Vader would most likely beat Nox in a Lightsaber battle.

 

Again, read my argument above.

 

If Nox is using a dual ended lightsaber, Vader gets ripped to shreds in lightsaber combat. He's too slow and heavy to effectively combat against the nimble and quick countermovement fighting style of a dual sided lightsaber wielder.

 

Look at the fight with Maul, where his speed, agility, and overall athleticism danced around Vader without so much as a strong counter. Nox, depending on if he was also centered around the AC class of the assassin, would destroy Vader in a similar manner then.

 

As for letting Nox use lightning against him....yeah. Beni's point covers that

[Beniboybling]

Show me when Galen Marek wielded a double sided lightsaber in combat against Vader, please.

 

"Dual sided" is not the same as "dual wielding". Read next time

"Dual-sided" is an incorrect use of terminology. What you mean is double-bladed or saberstaff.

[ZooMzy]

"Dual-sided" is an incorrect use of terminology. What you mean is double-bladed or saberstaff.

 

Dual-sided is correct grammar usage. Just as double-sided and two-sided are also correct usages of the term.

 

So a "dual-sided lightsaber" grammatically means the same thing as "double-sided lightsaber", even if SW terminology doesn't recognize it as such. So I would hope he wasn't too lost in the SW lore to actually grasp the terminology of "dual-sided".

 

More like he misread, thought I typed "dual-wielding", and jumped the gun in an attempt to make a quick lolpost.

[Beniboybling]

Dual-sided is correct grammar usage. Just as double-sided and two-sided are also correct usages of the term.

 

So a "dual-sided lightsaber" grammatically means the same thing as "double-sided lightsaber", even if SW terminology doesn't recognize it as such. So I would hope he wasn't too lost in the SW lore to actually grasp the terminology of "dual-sided".

 

More like he misread, thought I typed "dual-wielding", and jumped the gun in an attempt to make a quick lolpost.

Unfortunately this is a Star Wars discussion forum, the word dual-sided is going to cause some confusion.

 

That said I don't think the term "dual-sided" has ever been used in relation to any weapon...

Edited October 25, 2013 by Beniboybling

[ZooMzy]

Unfortunately this is a Star Wars discussion forum, the word dual-sided is going to cause some confusion.

 

That said I don't think the term "dual-sided" has ever been used in relation to any weapon...

 

How does "dual-sided" cause confusion? It literally means "dual (double) - sided (one on each side)"

 

It's quite clear in terms of what it means. That's like saying people get confused by the term "dual" instead of "double" because Star Wars only recognizes "double" as a word.

 

Please tell me people here aren't forgetting the basics of the English language here, as I find that hard to believe that over someone reading over a post really quickly and having a "Lol, gonna pwn this noob" mentality because he misread the actual post.

[Beniboybling]

How does "dual-sided" cause confusion? It literally means "dual (double) - sided (one on each side)"

 

It's quite clear in terms of what it means. That's like saying people get confused by the term "dual" instead of "double" because Star Wars only recognizes "double" as a word.

 

Please tell me people here aren't forgetting the basics of the English language here, as I find that hard to believe that over someone reading over a post really quickly and having a "Lol, gonna pwn this noob" mentality because he misread the actual post.

You just said so yourself, dual-sided can be mistaken for dual bladed. You can't berate someone for misreading when your using obscure terminology. Double bladed or saberstaff is much more clear.

 

Regardless its a menial point.

[ZooMzy]

You just said so yourself, dual-sided can be mistaken for dual bladed. You can't berate someone for misreading when your using obscure terminology. Double bladed or saberstaff is much more clear.

 

Regardless its a menial point.

 

What?

 

"Dual-sided" and "dual-bladed" mean the same thing, as I have said. They both, however, have no correlation to "dual wielding", which the user that responded to my post thought I meant.

[Luckeyduckey]

What?

 

"Dual-sided" and "dual-bladed" mean the same thing, as I have said. They both, however, have no correlation to "dual wielding", which the user that responded to my post thought I meant.

 

Vader beat Maul. So, yes, he does have potency against double-bladed opponents.

[Makoto_Shishio]

His suit became a crutch in the face of overwhelm outputs of lightning. Hence why Galen's attacks ultimately crushed him in addition to the overwhelming powers he displayed, but after the beat down, Vader's breathing and overall function was deteriorated.

Again, he was not subdued by Galens force lightning.

 

The TFU novel specifically stated that Vader shrugged off Galens force lightning so no, Galen didn't take down with a singular blast of lightning as you keep putting it out to be, Galen simply beat Vader because of one thing : An overwhelming display of raw power in the force and because of his potential in the force(which was stated to rival Sidious).

 

Thus, lightning is a weakness for him because he has to protect it. Making a known proficient lightning users like Nox capable of being Vader's worst nightmare.

And hes protected it via an upgrade to his suit as stated in the TFU novel, yes, his suit had a disadvantage before, but then what of it since he has made upgrades to it that allows him to shrug of lightning on 2 occasions that were powerful enough to bring down entire ATAT-s?

 

 

 

Lol, because Stormtroopers have such strong resistance to the Force?

Lol because im making a point that Vader is capable of defending himself?

In that case, does this mean Nox wins since he has a Dashade, that is immune to the Force and EATS Force users, recognizing that he is a worthy power house to serve?

You miss the point.

 

 

It was a combination of sorts, correct. But Vader's suit showed clear deterioration from the lightning attacks,

Not it didn't. Don't lie about it. Either read the TFU novel which states that Vaders suit got damaged by Galens barrage of telekinetic display(smashing Vader with giant pillars and a sheild generator) or the scripted scene in The force unleashed.

 

None of these attacks including a display of force lightning.

 

As for the second force unleashed, yes, Galen did take him down by lightning super charged with 3 pylons, but not a single shred was seen on Vaders armor, heck not even his breathing was effected, and it isn't some quick blast of lightning Vader took with the clone, he was exposed to the blast for a prolonged amount of time.

 

Nox's lightning will not give him an edge here.

as sheer force attacks have never hindered the complete operation of his suit besides lightning.

Thats because he never allowed other remaining force users to attack him on a degree. Galen was the only one that was far more powerful than he was.

 

 

My proof: the game. The abilities shown by both ACs are recognized as actual feats Darth Nox is technically capable of, and I'm pretty sure I can pull up a cutscene or two of the Force Storm in use if you really want.

You don't have to, i know He/She can summon up a storm of lightning, im just making a point, that lightning isn't the end be all answer to any fight against Vader.

 

Secondly, I had hoped you wouldn't rate Nox as Nightsister level power, which is clearly inaccurate. Technique is important, but power comes into the picture as well too.

You're a really terrible debater you know, not once has i rated Nox on a nightsister level.

 

Your point was that "Force storm" can take down "ATAT's" according to lore, im just disproving you wrong, that not every one with the ability has the skill for it to crush down an entire tank.

And if you really don't have a clue as to how powerful a Dark Councilor with mastery over the Dark Side of the Force and wields more than 4 notable Force ghosts in addition to his own strength, I suggest you revisit the Inquisitor storyline.

I'v finished the Inquisitor storyline, and i wasn't impressed to be honest. Nox needing to visit different worlds for the force ghosts to amp up his power just to beat Thanaton?

 

 

 

See above. Hopefully I put that ignorant claim to rest.

Youre the one that made the ignorant claim that Force storm itslf is capable of ravaging ATAT-s to dust.

 

 

In a duel, the weapons used always determine a substantial strategy to the battle. Please tell me you really can't see the difference between dueling a skilled warrior with a single sword vs. dueling someone with a dual sided lightsaber.

There's not much of a difference, regardless if you're using a single lightsaber, Dual, or double bladed because they all follow the same sequence and steps of what ever lightsaber form you're using, this has been proven in Path of destruction.

 

How could Vader not defend nor have the skill

 

 

Secondly, Vader has no proof or feats listed in terms of capability against a dual sided wielding Force user. Except for....

His mastery of all 7 forms of lightsaber combat, the fact that he has fought multiple opponents whom were far more agile and quicker than he was and yet still beat them in sheer lightsaber combat.

 

And then again, we don't even know whats canon in the Inquisitor storyline, we don't even know if him using a double bladed lightsaber or single lightsaber is canon. Heck, assuming it is even canon if he/she used a double bladed lightsaber, what do we know of it? What forms of lightsaber combat has Nox mastered? What duel has he won with a lightsaber?

 

We know absolutely nothing of Nox's lightsaber skill as in comparison to Vader whom has been shown to be a master of all forms to the point of making a singular customary form which included elements of Juyo and the rest so i don't even see Nox having the capabilities to duel Vader let alone beat him in lightsaber combat.

 

Actually, Maul was the only one he fought, as a clone. And you might want to read that comic again; Maul was toying with Vader the entire time and literally beating him to a pulp. Vader just pulled a win from nowhere.

First off, you read the comic again. When Maul was using the double bladed lightsaber, he couldn't overpower vader and vice versa, it was an even match, it was only when vader sliced his lightsaber into two, that Maul switched styles and caught vader off guard.

If we eliminated the need to preserve Vader for the timeline, he realistically loses to fast, nimble, and quick movements that a young and skilled fighter can do. Which if you look at Nox in his prime, he is.

No he hasn't as he demonstrated the skill to fight off Jedi and Warriors which were far more agile and quicker than he is, not to mention his mastery of the force which puts him above the majority of force users.

 

Just because you don't like Vader, doesn't mean he is weak and can easily lose to someone who moves faster than him.

 

Don't talk about "realistically loses to quick blah blah blah", don't even mention the word "realistic" in star wars when you have sounds and explosions in outer space.

 

 

See above. Power of Darth Nox in regards to Force lightning, its potency, and effects on Vader have been listed.

Which i have disproven and caught you lying.

Also keep in mind that Vader's powers are also exaggerated in most cases of the EU, where inconsistencies are easily notable.

Keep in mind that the whole of the EU is inconsistent with characters and their powers, not just Vaders powers, don't attempt to downplay them just because you don't like him and want your favourite character to beat him.

 

His powers are not "exaggerated" as you would like to put it out to be, you just don't like the fact that Vader isn't some weak force user as most kids who play KOTOR and hate the movies thinks its cool to do so.

 

The SW EU always shows inconsistency.

 

 

In comparison to Darth Nox, not really impressive.

From your biased point of view, no its not.

I already have shown his failings when it comes to lightsaber dueling with the case of Darth Maul, where he loses against more athletic opponents using a kind of fighting style Vader is too slow to match up with.

No you haven't, you haven't even proved Nox is a capable saber duelist. Maul didn't beat him just because he used a double bladed saber or a duel saber, its because Maul has been proven, and stated to be the deadliest sith apprentice in history and has several note worthy feats of his own in saber combat.

 

Heck even sometime before TPM, maul has briefly beaten darth sidious in duel in a fit of rage with his lightsaber(Source, Darth Maul novel)

 

Considering how this style was also enough for a Sith that wasn't very apt in the Force as Darth Nox would be, Vader loses on that point alone.

And what "Style" are you talking about? Using the double bladed lightsaber doesn't mean you somehow use a style unknown to lightsaber combat.

 

Maul used the Juyo form on his double bladed lightsaber and Maul has proven he's one of the best saber duelists in SW history by even besting Sidious in a duel, so tell me, if Vader could go head to head to that before Maul used dual sabers to beat his arse, what makes you think Nox could do anything remotely close considering that as if said before, we know nothing of his/her swordsmanship in saber combat and skill.

 

Just because Nox appears to use the same style as Maul(which isn't even proven what form Nox is using as of yet) doesn't mean he/she is as skilled as Maul is in lightsaber combat.

Secondly, Nox has an impressive track record of his own, detailing as far as toppling powerful Darths, Jedi Masters, countless Lords, along with defeating powerful forces in the end game content such as the Dread Masters (until EA declares which storyline is canon, along with the exact make up of who defeated them).

Not impressed. And if its not declared canon, then its still left debatable. Because Nox has been shown to defeat most of this people in gameplay mechanics, we don't exactly know how Nox defeats them.

 

Is it with his/her Storm?

Superior lightsaber skill?

Force attacks?

Etc etc

 

After injuries Vader isn't being questioned as weak, but you can not deny that ultimately, his machine enhancements will be a crutch for him because he has to spend a great deal of effort to resist attacks specifically weakening it (Which, even in TFU, he is weakened by strong outputs of lightning.)

He didn't have to by the second TFU when he was exposed to a lightning storm of massive proportions conjured by the clone and 3 pylons for a prolonged amount of time. Like i kept saying, it didn't affect him at all, heck it didn't even effect his breathing or damage his suit because of the upgrades he installed. This is a point you keep trying to ignore.

 

Game mechanics are superseded by the novel's interpretation in terms of canon i.e. that's not actually what happened. I haven't read the book myself so I don't know if Marek is capable of destroying walkers but he did not blast Vader with lightning amped up with three pylons etc.

What actually happened is that Vader beat him in a lightsaber duel, Vader then let his guard down and Marek blasted him with lightning - he was instantly subdued. This same Marek also stunned Vader with a blast of lightning before escaping from Kamino. He may personally not be vulnerable, but his suit certainly is.

Its not game mechanics when its a cutscene and a scripted gameplay scene according to the devs, so yes, Galen did beat Vader by amping his own lightning with 3 giant pylons, the novel and comic even states this.

 

And don't try to tell me whats canon or not since you yourself stated you don't care about the rules of canon

Edited October 26, 2013 by Makoto_Shishio