Jedi Guardian Changes - Game Update 2.5

[olcraft]

Vigilance buffing phase is far from over. We still need more survivability, mobility and better burst.

 

Burst bonus would have to require us to give up some of our dots. But survivability and mobility buffs must be free unlike this 46 talents fiasco. Focused defense must either be a focus free skill just like rebuke or give us a pasive 30% aoe dmg reduction talent just like any other melee classes. Winnig against an AOE heavy teams composed of smash monkeys or engineering snipers is literally impossible. Don't believe me? Try it!

 

We need a better gap closer to discourage kiting by experienced ranged dps. For example, they can tweak our sabre reflect by increasing its duration to 6 seconds, make sabre reflect break roots and ensnares or modifying Gather Strength to reduce the cooldown of sabre reflect every time we are rooted or ensnared. I suggested 6 seconds duration to address being rooted by an experienced ranged dps and not being able to either reflect damage or close the gap between us and our attacker. If there is a better way to address our kiting issues then tell the devs your ideas. But I could only think about sabre reflect at the moment.

 

Until these issues are addressed, combat sents would always be favored over us in ranked pvp. You think i am asking too much? Go play this spec for a year at least then tell us why ranked teams don't want us in their groups.

Edited December 6, 2013 by olcraft

[Hakkology]

New dummy features clearly show who needs buff and who doesn't.

 

Guardians clearly are not within %5 of other classes.

 

Buffing phase is not over.

[volander]

Vigilance buffing phase is far from over. We still need more survivability, mobility and better burst.

this^

 

I played Vengeanse with an early start and this spec has never been to the mountaintop. Even in the best of times when crit was to Saber Throw and before nerfin GS, a spec was maximum in the middle between the strongest and weakest. I almost never played smash because it was difficult, demanding certain tactics and abilities to monitor cooldowns. I'm an average player and played a convenient and easy spec. But then things started to change ... Now smash simply prohibitively stupid spec, they are constantly running with a full resource and every cooldown is ready to use. And multiply that by divine defensive Marauder skills and Vengeans just fades and loses any positives at all.

I almost did not play other classes as I have always played in all chose melee. I could write off all but its a broken arm, but it's worth I go for Vanguard or shadow, and the feeling that I have wings. I fly in and warzone sow death and destruction instead of standing in control with his glowing toothpick and eat a ton of damage.

Lately I've been playing on the forum than the game itself. I waited so long though what that positive changes but only became worse.

Players offered so many good ideas, I've suggested a few, but you can see us down developers metric ...

At least! need twice prolong Focused defensive, without use of the resource. Add to it immune to slow impairing effect. And given that the focus is the second jump, in vengeanse to it should be added 30% increase in speed(first 6 sec).

Necessary as that rework Saber Reflect, in the best case it works against chaneled abilities. Increase front load damage. I would even do so with a PB have positive buff increases with every second chance to proc MS from 30% to 60%. OS has no cooldown and just serves to reset the cooldown on MS. Remove the hell lower limit for Saber Throw and Leaps, and so vengeanse problems with resource! In the name of the gods we're melee!

And if it L2P issue, apply video where you dust wafting shadows Vanguard mixed with snipers. On "Void Star" behind having good healing can up numbers , but it does not mean anything. In general, the spec has long been deeply and completely broken:mad:

And considering that right now, the game starts over again, throwing me Bsod, then I think it's time to take a break.

 

ps sorry my wierd eng

Edited December 6, 2013 by volander

[SenatorPalpaTANG]

Vigilance buffing phase is far from over. We still need more survivability, mobility and better burst.

You think so? IMO we're pretty good in all 3 of those categories, though I agree the spec could use some form of on-demand burst.

 

Just about every other dps spec seems to have at least one offensive CD that guarantees burst when they need it.

 

PTs get Explosive Gas, Mercs get Power Surge, Sorcs/Sins get Recklessness, Sins also get Overcharge Saber, Snipers get Target Acquired, Maras get Berserk and Bloodthirst (and Gore if they're Carnage) etc etc.

 

And speaking of Maras, even Annihilation (the least bursty Mara tree) can Berserk and bleed their targets for MASSIVE damage over a very short period. For us though, we just kind of go through our standard rotation and hope for procs/crits, which is IMO one of the main reasons this spec under-performs in arenas.

 

We need a better gap closer to discourage kiting by experienced ranged dps. For example, they can tweak our sabre reflect by increasing its duration to 6 seconds, make sabre reflect break roots and ensnares or modifying Gather Strength to reduce the cooldown of sabre reflect every time we are rooted or ensnared. I suggested 6 seconds duration to address being rooted by an experienced ranged dps and not being able to either reflect damage or close the gap between us and our attacker. If there is a better way to address our kiting issues then tell the devs your ideas. But I could only think about sabre reflect at the moment.

I think that's asking way too much.

 

Ranged classes are supposed to be able to kite melee, and we already have plenty of tools to stay on target (15% bonus run speed, AoE Snare with no CD, CC immunity on Jump, Push to reset Jump, Stasis, Guardian Leap to a friendly near your target, AND now a root on MS). Anything more and we'd be completely unshakable.

 

I never find myself hopelessly kited unless I'm actively being peeled.

[NuRhoPhi]

Coming back to dps:

For 'sustained' dps, I think it can be agreed that in fact, all three trees are weak:

Soresu does lowest dmg of tanks. (note: one tank will inevitably be weakest, so that is fine-ish)

Shien could use a damage buff

Focus does massive burst dmg, but still is not used in operations etc, because of sustained dmg.

 

Focus gets +15% surge to all attacks. What if we go back to 30% for force attacks only, lower the singularity effect to keep smash at approx current level. Then, we slightly buff guardians melee abilities.

 

Vigilance tree: row 1:

 

-Single saber mastery: as is;

-Accuracy: increases accuracy and melee crit chance by 1%-3%. (+3% melee crit chance is a slight buff. Commando accuracy talent is one of the strongest in game, providing 30% armor pen to two important abilities)

-Improved sundering strike: as is.

 

Row 2:

Stagger: +root duration to force leap. Maybe reduce cd also, and/or increase range to 35m, or reduce minimum range to 5m.

Perseverance: 0-3; plus 3-6-9 strength.

Defiance: 0-2: +1-2 focus when knockbacked, stunned, slepped, pulled, knocked down. Additionaly reduces dmg taken by 7.5-15% for 3 seconds when 'one of the above'. (Should this include root, as guardian is a melee class?) (pvp talent obviously. Slight stun dmg resistance instead of AoE dmg reduction: long term, otherwise everyone has AoE dmg reduction) Another alternative to AoE dmg reduction could be elemental/internal dmg reduction, force/tech dmg reduction, DoT reduction.. In case you think the 15% dmg reduction is too powerfull: vanguard center tree gets, for 2 skill points, -30% AoE dmg, -30%dmg taken when stunned

 

That said: with focus going strong in pvp, alongside other AoE attacks (flamethrower), I can see the appeal of course. My suggestion would be however, that balance wise maybe the AoE 'bursts' need to be toned down.

Engineer is basically underpowered without 'wallbang', in sustained dps (I have a gunslinger). So, issue is mostly that for several classes the 'single target rotation' maximum dmg ability is an AoE. (like, tactics vanguard and focus, Balance consular 'force in balance', Telekinetics has the AoE Wave with +50%crit dmg)

 

Row 3:

Burning blade: DoT damage increased by 50%. This can be done by simply increasing DoT duration. Options: increase Blade Storm damage by 3-6%; Blade Storm roots target for 1s.

Shien form: as is.

Unremitting: as is.

Gather strength: increase to 3-6%.

 

Row 4:

Narrowed focus: eh.. as is, + reduce damage from DoT effects by 7.5%? (uncleansable balance Dot's, Pyro merc is now actually good, Dirty fighting specs..)

Vigilance: fine

effluence: as is

 

Row 5:

as is except

Commanding awe: remove cd of Awe reduction. (enough cc in game as is), instead: focused defense has a 50-100% to refund the focus when taking dmg.

 

Row 6: Zen strike: master strike snares your target by 20-40-60%. Overhead slash and plasma brand reduce the active cd of masterstrike by 2-4-6 seconds. (timing negoatiable)

Sundering throw: as is. Zen strike no longer creates focus: saber throw now generates an extra 1-2 focus. (so, up to 5 focus)

 

Row 7:

Keening: eh, as is I suppose.

Preparation: removed. as mentioned in earlier post, replaced by +5-10% dmg to abilities that generate focus, and +5-10% crit chance to those and plasma brand.

 

Row 8: plasma brand

 

Sum of 'dummy fight parse' buffs:

+3% melee crit chance,

+3% strength

+50% Blade storm DoT damage

+reliable master strike proc, (snare added to it, instead of seperate root talent)

+10% dmg and crit chance to focus builders, +10% crit chance to plasma brand

 

If buffs not enough, add 7.5-15% surge to the replacement for 'preparation'.

Edited December 7, 2013 by NuRhoPhi

[Manweth]

Vigilance buffing is NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT OVER. Not while sentinels are now %17 ahead of us ( new numbers emerging with new armor reducted dummies.)

 

I do not care if focus shrivels and dies.

 

And tanks are performing nice, many healers love 'em nowadays.

 

Vigilance needs help. Big time.

 

And as always, I will come back to the old issue.

 

Fix the RNG on Zen strike. Yesterday.

[Creslan]

The new dummies really put a spotlight on were classes are DPS wise. (I rounded down).

• Pyro Merc 3900ish
  
• Balance Shadow 3500ish
  
• Lethality Operative 3600ish
  
• Hybrid Vanguard 3700ish
   
  

 

That's none of the Pure DPS classes either. The best Guardian one I saw was 3400ish. So the new dummies go to show that we are behind dps wise. For us to maintain competitive DPS in that list we would need a 10 sec master strike cooldown. Right now the RNG can take as much as 300dps off a parse with a bad stretch of numbers, and that is unacceptable. So that 3400 is actually 3100-3200 with poor RNG.

 

I don't see them giving us a 10 sec master strike hard cooldown, ever. If we are lucky, the best we could hope for is 45% on zen strike. I've mentioned this time after time, but I've also come up with another Idea. Keep the RNG on Zen strike at 30%, However, Make it additive. So our first chance is 30%, second chance is 60%, third chance is 90% and 4th is automatic reset. While this keeps the RNG feel to it, it would eliminate the long stretches of no zen procs, (I've seen them as long as 2 mins in a parse).

 

Even with the above boost, I think we would be behind in DPS. Some other options to give us a boost include.

• Offensive guard: dps utility and dmg increase
  
• Crit Multiplier on MS, Dots, OH.
  
• Passive Armor Pen
  
• Increase Dot Crit chance
  
• Old Force Rush- auto dispatch crit
  

• Increase to crit in tree(not auto crit, but 3% crit added to Accuracy Talent)
  

 

Example of a class and crit: I run with a commando in my HM group, we are both full 78. He has the exact same power I do. He has 28% crit compared to my 21%, he also has crit multipliers giving him much higher burst potential. While we could add crit via mods/enhancements, it kills our dps (i've tested this for hours on the dummy, unfortunately power is the only way to go currently).

 

With the change to Sents and Inspiration, I think that nipped any chance of us getting a raid wide utility(single target utility may still have a chance for us) and it seems the devs were trying to level the playing field and tell guilds that they don't need to run 2 sents.

 

And please, please please, get alacrity out of your heads, that's a horrible idea to give us alacrity. That's like giving a commando a melee damage buff.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Creslan

[olcraft]

 

Ranged classes are supposed to be able to kite melee, and we already have plenty of tools to stay on target (15% bonus run speed, AoE Snare with no CD, CC immunity on Jump, Push to reset Jump, Stasis, Guardian Leap to a friendly near your target, AND now a root on MS). Anything more and we'd be completely unshakable.

 

I never find myself hopelessly kited unless I'm actively being peeled.

 

Bonus run speed is a joke. Aoe snare can easily be broken or cleansed with skills like rolling, force speed, hold the line etc. We have to rely on LOSing to close the gap while we can literally do nothing if we are slowed or rooted. Sabre reflect lasts only 3 seconds and most experienced players will not attack you while the sabre reflect is up.

Simply root us for 3 seconds and it's gone. No significant damage reflected, no gaps closed, nothing. At least smashers got zealous leap to close 10m gap even when snared or rooted, we got nothing after 3 seconds unremitting wears off.

 

Marauders got more gap closers than we do as well. they got transcendence and force cloak(better than sabre reflect when used as a gap closer though cannot reflect any damage). We got force push but you have to close the gap to at least 10m before you can even use that ability. Also abilities like hold the line can totally negate your force push as well. Even with sabre reflect buff i suggested above, it will not make this spec particularly OP.

Edited December 7, 2013 by olcraft

[olcraft]

I forgot to mention that although our survivability is comparable to focus/rage sents/marauders in normal situations. We and dps operatives are extremely vulnerable to smash monkeys and engineering snipers. If you see these players, it is best that you do not engage them at all. We have nothing to mitigate their AOE damage. So don't bother trying to kill these guys. It's more likely that you'll get killed first. Edited December 7, 2013 by olcraft

[volander]

I don't see them giving us a 10 sec master strike hard cooldown, ever. If we are lucky, the best we could hope for is 45% on zen strike. I've mentioned this time after time, but I've also come up with another Idea. Keep the RNG on Zen strike at 30%, However, Make it additive. So our first chance is 30%, second chance is 60%, third chance is 90% and 4th is automatic reset. While this keeps the RNG feel to it, it would eliminate the long stretches of no zen procs, (I've seen them as long as 2 mins in a parse).

 

it's almost my idea

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6962491&postcount=360

[Creslan]

Look at commando's accuracy talent on the first tier of their shared tree. 3% accuracy and 30% armor pen on 2 attacks. They could totally copy/paste that to Guardians with Master Strike and Overhead Slash or Blade Storm.

 

I wouldn't try to mimic the sent trees, I would look at the commando tree for guardian talents.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Creslan

[NuRhoPhi]

The new dummies really put a spotlight on were classes are DPS wise. (I rounded down).

• Pyro Merc 3900ish
  
• Balance Shadow 3500ish
  
• Lethality Operative 3600ish
  
• Hybrid Vanguard 3700ish
   
  

 

That's none of the Pure DPS classes either. The best Guardian one I saw was 3400ish. So the new dummies go to show that we are behind dps wise. For us to maintain competitive DPS in that list we would need a 10 sec master strike cooldown. Right now the RNG can take as much as 300dps off a parse with a bad stretch of numbers, and that is unacceptable. So that 3400 is actually 3100-3200 with poor RNG.

 

I don't see them giving us a 10 sec master strike hard cooldown, ever. If we are lucky, the best we could hope for is 45% on zen strike. I've mentioned this time after time, but I've also come up with another Idea. Keep the RNG on Zen strike at 30%, However, Make it additive. So our first chance is 30%, second chance is 60%, third chance is 90% and 4th is automatic reset. While this keeps the RNG feel to it, it would eliminate the long stretches of no zen procs, (I've seen them as long as 2 mins in a parse).

 

Even with the above boost, I think we would be behind in DPS. Some other options to give us a boost include.

• Offensive guard: dps utility and dmg increase
  
• Crit Multiplier on MS, Dots, OH.
  
• Passive Armor Pen
  
• Increase Dot Crit chance
  
• Old Force Rush- auto dispatch crit
  

• Increase to crit in tree(not auto crit, but 3% crit added to Accuracy Talent)
  

 

Example of a class and crit: I run with a commando in my HM group, we are both full 78. He has the exact same power I do. He has 28% crit compared to my 21%, he also has crit multipliers giving him much higher burst potential. While we could add crit via mods/enhancements, it kills our dps (i've tested this for hours on the dummy, unfortunately power is the only way to go currently).

 

With the change to Sents and Inspiration, I think that nipped any chance of us getting a raid wide utility(single target utility may still have a chance for us) and it seems the devs were trying to level the playing field and tell guilds that they don't need to run 2 sents.

 

And please, please please, get alacrity out of your heads, that's a horrible idea to give us alacrity. That's like giving a commando a melee damage buff.

 

When I consider alacrity I consider changing what alacrity does for the class; Masterstrike specific alacrity in the tree is fine too.

 

I would consider a 10sec cd masterstrike a bad idea anyway. More melee range channeling attacks..what could possibly go wrong?

I think it is best to make the proc system for masterstrike reliable (cooldown reduction),

and to increase damage and crit chance.

Vigilance does not get surge? Fine; but that means 'base' attacks should hit higher. (to an extent the vigilance specific attacks do)

At the moment, Focus using slash gets:

+7.5 crit chance, 15%surge, 3% dmg, +9% if he would use smash (=always), 30% Armor pen. Vigilance gets +12% dmg, and the crit IF you spec into focus.

Similar story for masterstrike, minus the 7.5 crit chance. Likewise for focus builders etc.

Presume 30% crit chance, 70% surge, 30% armor. Then 30% armor pen and 15% surge increases average dps by: (30% crit: smash is autocrit, and +6% crit to force, +7.5 to slash and dispatch.. 30% is underestimating in terms of average crit chance of the total damage)

(100*0.7+0.3*0.3*100)/(100*0.7)=1.129, or +12.9% for the armor pen.

(1+0.3*0.85)/(1+0.3*0.7)=1.037 , so plus 3.7.

1.129*1.037=1.17.

On average, focus hits 17% harder with attacks, except the vigilance specific attacks. (which give vigilance the lead, combined with masterstrike reset)

[lordbadtamaru]

Hi I'm Rydarus

 

I've played Vigilance since 1.7. My best parse is approaching 3.2 on the 1.5 million ops dummy.

 

As far as I can tell, we have a few major issues.

 

*RNG: Our master strike is extremely unstable. Our DPS fluctuates, and even at our best, we aren't even close to the best dps among other classes. We are good enough that players can make it work, but we are far from optimal. Our master strike, is one of our major problems, but not all.

 

*Focused Defense, we lose dps simply from aggro dropping. We are the only dps class that drops threat with resource. That is insane. That would be like a Sage losing 200 force instantly and losing 20 more every time he or she gets hit. Its ludicrous. If we took consistent aoe damage, focused defense could use FOURTEEN FOCUS!!! THAT IS INSANE.

 

*Execute Phase: Our execute phase is terrible. We have evidently no focus to use dispatch, and our top end dps doesn't justify having such a crappy execute. This is evident in the parses by our best player, Kisheksun. On the 1.5 million dummy, shadows are now parsing higher than us at 3.4k dps from their top player. Us on the other hand, have yet to surpass our previous world leaderboard records simply due to rng and the fact that we don't gain dps from our execute anywhere close to where we need to be. In addition,other classes are rapidly approaching 4k dps. Guardians and Shadows are simply just warring over the crappy spot at the bottom.

 

Don't believe execute woes? In my parse below, our dps goes DOWN in execute phase. That's bad.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/511377/2/0/Overview

 

*PVP viability, our pvp viability is funky. We have a limited role as a tank dps, where we can win protection medals by area taunting, and also single target shutdown a mediocre healer, but we can't whip out consistent high damage numbers. Understandable, as we SHOULD be a sustained dps spec, but shouldn't a sustained dps spec be better at 1 vs 1 ing?

 

*PVE utility: the idea of an offensive guard has been tossed around to... mediocre effect. Personally, from my point of view, if you are specced dps, you ARE dps. Just cause you can respec tank that does not mean you can tank. Our utility is in taunts for tank swaps, and survivability (Needs a slight buff). We also have allied aggro drops (Guardian Leap) and fairly good target transfer from long distances by careful placement of Force Push.

 

I envision a game where all dps classes parse close to one another, with melee in a slight lead, where all so called "Hybrid" classes, bring utility, and "Pure Dps classes" bring raid wide offensive cooldowns, and making the mixing of both Raidwide offensive and defensive cooldowns making group composition more interesting and more strategic.

[lordbadtamaru]

Frankly what I see as the "Best" zen strike, is a watchman Merciless Slash Style cooldown reduction buff that reduces it to a 15 second master strike cooldown, as frankly thats where our best parses are averaging as Master Strikes per second. We then buff our overall dps and execute, and we will be in a fairly balanced place.

 

A part of me misses the old Autocrit Dispatch from pre 2.0, if we could see how that would do on an executable dummy.

[Creslan]

After running parses on the dummy consistently since Tuesday I know for a fact our dps goes down on the execute phase. We don't have the focus available to maintain dispatch as well as our normal rotation. We didn't have this issue pre 2.0 due to 2 reasons: 1 the way sunder worked with the 4.5 sec cooldown, and 2 Force rush Auto disptach crits (wasn't a true auto, but like a 60% increase to dispatch crit chance).

 

The RNG and execute cause us to lose dps everytime on parses. Pre 2.0 force rush might help and I too would like to see what our parses would look like with the dispatch crit, but that RNG on zen is the kicker. Either we need a much higher reset considering we have a 9 sec and 12 sec cooldown on our reset abilities or a flat master strike cooldown reduction, or the earlier suggested additive chance of 30%, 60% so on.

 

Even then, we would need other buffs to push us into the 3500-3600 area, and that isn't asking alot considering where others are now.

[lordbadtamaru]

Once Rng is stabilized, I would love an autocrit dispatch yes. We also need FAR better focus management (Free Blade storm?) and plasma brand needs to revert to a 9 second cooldown but condense the burn. Symmetricality is what the spec was built on and I think it should be that way.

[Hornakkan]

Once Rng is stabilized, I would love an autocrit dispatch yes. We also need FAR better focus management (Free Blade storm?) and plasma brand needs to revert to a 9 second cooldown but condense the burn. Symmetricality is what the spec was built on and I think it should be that way.

 

I really love the idea and I'd like to see what it looks like on PTS

[Riivan]

Thanks for joining the discussion and posting your guide.

 

I think even if we get our RNG stabilized we need to shift some focus away from MS to lessen its impact on our DPS. Seems like they're digging the more mobile fights and channeling for 3 seconds and clipping that last hit is brutal. Maybe if the damage was uniform across all hits it'd help. But I'd like to see our dot damage buffed considerably for the Blade Storm and Overhead dots as well as their dot time extended to match the cool down. I'd like to see the Plasma Brand up front damage and burn damage swapped and the damage on both increased a little.

[Alec_Fortescue]

Once Rng is stabilized, I would love an autocrit dispatch yes. We also need FAR better focus management (Free Blade storm?) and plasma brand needs to revert to a 9 second cooldown but condense the burn. Symmetricality is what the spec was built on and I think it should be that way.

 

Yeah, what many people didn't mention is that we basically never have any free focus. Especially in pvp, there is no way to trigger focused defense without being vulnerable and being unable to keep attacking with our rotation, unless we use it together with enrage.

 

And this leaves, again, the question of Focused Defense which was supposed to be "fixed"...

 

I can't believe that the stupid root is all we've got in 2.5. It was meant to be a balance patch, come on! :/

Edited December 8, 2013 by Alec_Fortescue

[Riivan]

It seems that they're moving slow and focusing on a few classes at a time. An actual fix for us would potentially involve reworking how our rotation/priority system works. Believe you me I want a fix sooner rather than later so I can switch back to my Guard for DPS, but I'd rather them take their time then give us another "fix" like with 2.0 that didn't really get us all that much closer.

[NuRhoPhi]

It seems that they're moving slow and focusing on a few classes at a time. An actual fix for us would potentially involve reworking how our rotation/priority system works. Believe you me I want a fix sooner rather than later so I can switch back to my Guard for DPS, but I'd rather them take their time then give us another "fix" like with 2.0 that didn't really get us all that much closer.

 

Care to explain which class received the 'focus' in the 2.5 update?

Horrible balance consular/shadow approach: DoT's can't be cleansed anymore. Yay. Nothing done to balance to help with force issues. I guess consulars can rejoice that there is a reason to hold a saber: on longer fights they get to use saber strike after all.

Vigilance guardian: root, in an already bloated skill tree..

Juyo Sent/marauder: Juyo form and Merciless now last 24 seconds. Yay.

Guarded by the Force/Undying nerfed in a horrible manner. (instead of reducing duration, increasing cd..)

 

That leaves, um shadow I suppose, whom now pass guardian in dps (congrats I guess, still a long climb out of the pit to beat the top dps),

and went to armor (like all other tanks) instead of self-healing. Not: bit lower self-healing, bit more armor, no-no, scratched the self-healing, given armor, called it a day.

Shadow tanks now have pretty high dmg reduction vs internal/elemental dmg too, should be fun facing one as vanguard.

 

Is that the best they can do for the class balance patch? If you promise a class balance patch, then it should not be 'go slow and focus on one class' to start with.

(Note: 2.4 I think was supposed to be THE pvp patch before that. ).

If you 'go slow and focus on one class' I would expect a far better end product, sorry.

 

Edit: read above 'one class' as a few classes. But I'd say the only class that got attention was shadow/assassin.

Something as simple as increasing duration of Juyo's stacks did not take someone a month of work.

Edited December 8, 2013 by NuRhoPhi

[Hornakkan]

I envision a game where all dps classes parse close to one another, with melee in a slight lead, where all so called "Hybrid" classes, bring utility, and "Pure Dps classes" bring raid wide offensive cooldowns, and making the mixing of both Raidwide offensive and defensive cooldowns making group composition more interesting and more strategic.

 

Maybe a Disarm skill on 1 or 2 second length, working on everything (Silver, Gold, Elite and players) and 1min Cooldown ?

[lordbadtamaru]

Meh sounds wayyyyy too much like the sentinel talent.

 

I was envisioning more of a talent related to their non DPS tree, so for example a guardian dps can pop a raid wide DR, Gunslinger loses the shield and maybe increases the range and alacrity of all in Raid Members. Sentinel has Inspiration. They lose Transcendance, Transcendance wannabe goes to operative/scound. Shadows give an amount of defense or some other passive raidwide defensive cooldown. Sage could get a raidwide heal or something.

 

These are all IDEAS. they could turn out ridiculously overpowered, but I like the idea of every class having unique raidwide utility. And the PVP applications, oh lord could be fun.

[Creslan]

I don't really care what sounds like a sentinel talent at this point, Alot of you get too hung up on good ideas because it sounds too sentish? Seriously, they could copy paste a sent tree to the guardian and I wouldn't care so long as it increases our dps. I guess I am not as close minded as some and feel that dps upgrades to talents and skills can be found not only in the sent tree but other trees as well. I like my single saber and have no desire to play a sentinel personally. However, I won't turn down good ideas just because of how they sound.

 

As for raid wide abilities. They are fine as is. I've argued for an offensive guard for raid utility, but it was more for a dps upgrade rather than true utility. I don't think we should go asking for changes to other classes, we have enough to keep us busy here.

[lordbadtamaru]

I'd rather have a little originality is all. What's to stop me from switching to my sent if they play the exact same? Main reason why I miss some but not all of pre 2.0 vigilance, we were our own thing then. Having a kickass execute was fun.