Noob Alert: Tank or DPS

[wairuakaha]

Hiya

 

Im just starting my first assassin toon - could someone advise in light of the changes introduced to date is the assassin more effective in PVE as a Tank or DPS?

 

ty

Edited October 17, 2013 by wairuakaha

[cxten]

Currently, for PVE:

 

Madness dps is fine. It's not exciting and is somewhat behind the top dps classes, but it's reasonable. For running operations, it parses poorly on the dummy but gets a lot better in an actual fight (with armor debuff from another character and executes sub 30%). It will be buffed a little in 2.5 it sounds like.

 

Deception has good burst, but lacks good sustained damage currently. It parses even worse than madness, but does also improve on actual fights, just not quite ending up at the same level as madness. It's going to be buffed a lot in 2.5 it sounds like, but currently that's how it stands.

 

Tanking: Currently assassins are fine tanks, but on hard content they suffer from taking spiky damage (on easy content, they're probably the best tank out there if you know what you're doing). Many top raiding guilds still use an assassin as one of their tanks though, so they're viable. They're getting reworked in 2.5 to take away most of the spikiness also (but this isn't implemented yet either).

Edited October 17, 2013 by cxten

[RiChess]

Currently, for PVE:

 

Madness dps is fine. It's not exciting and is somewhat behind the top dps classes, but it's reasonable. For running operations, it parses poorly on the dummy but gets a lot better in an actual fight (with armor debuff from another character and executes sub 30%). It will be buffed a little in 2.5 it sounds like.

 

Deception has good burst, but lacks good sustained damage currently. It parses even worse than madness, but does also improve on actual fights, just not quite ending up at the same level as madness. It's going to be buffed a lot in 2.5 it sounds like, but currently that's how it stands.

 

Tanking: Currently assassins are fine tanks, but on hard content they suffer from taking spiky damage (on easy content, they're probably the best tank out there if you know what you're doing). Many top raiding guilds still use an assassin as one of their tanks though, so they're viable. They're getting reworked in 2.5 to take away most of the spikiness also (but this isn't implemented yet either).

 

By fine you mean parsing much lower than any other DPS class. I got my sin in full 69s a few weeks ago and bounced it's parses off my other 69 geared DPS fellas at the time (op, sniper, jugg, mara) and I was doing anywhere from 2-2.3k on all of them except my sin, which was in the 1.6k-1.7k range.

 

Surprisingly I did do better with madness over deception, considering you _never_ see a madness sin in PvE, always deception. The main problem is surprisingly bad energy management for a force user (shock costing almost 50% of your total force? *** is that about?) And a mind numbingly boring rotation. DoTs, thrash thrash proc, thrash thrash proc, DoTs.... throw in anything else and you just bottomed out your force bar.

 

Not to mention every other class benefits from the raid debuffs and executes too.

 

TL;DR, roll him as a tank, sins tanks are getting buffed and their mitigation profile is optimal for the new ops.

Edited October 17, 2013 by RiChess

[cxten]

Dummy dps leaderboard in 2.3 adjusted for armor debuffs and executes

[RiChess]

Dummy dps leaderboard in 2.3 adjusted for armor debuffs and executes

 

Except the fact that the link you provided is a theory crafting dummy parse thread, in other words, completely useless. Check out any of the operation (or dummy) DPS leader boards for real life actual numbers, and huh, what do you know, no sins.

[cxten]

Check out any of the operation (or dummy) DPS leader boards for real life actual numbers, and huh, what do you know, no sins.

 

I did say the dps wasn't as good as the top few classes. The leaderboards are dominated by the top few classes.

 

I didn't even really recommend playing the spec. I just said it was reasonable and will be buffed a little in 2.5.

 

Anyway, here's a post about the dps for one of the first few (world 6th) kills of dread guards nightmare back in June. The guy with 2.9k was a gunslinger. The 2.7k was a shadow. The two with 2.5k were commandos.

[RiChess]

I did say the dps wasn't as good as the top few classes. The leaderboards are dominated by the top few classes.

 

I didn't even really recommend playing the spec. I just said it was reasonable and will be buffed a little in 2.5.

 

Anyway, here's a post about the dps for one of the first few (world 6th) kills of dread guards nightmare back in June. The guy with 2.9k was a gunslinger. The 2.7k was a shadow. The two with 2.5k were commandos.

 

There are always exceptions to the rule, and it's very likely that the conditions were just right to produce 2.7k in an actual raid. However sin dps is far too RNG, positional (dec) and squishy (even if you completely disregard the lower dps) to make it anything less than last choice for any progression group. So while a sin happened to be in that group, they would have been better served taking almost anything else.

[Elyx]

There are always exceptions to the rule, and it's very likely that the conditions were just right to produce 2.7k in an actual raid. However sin dps is far too RNG, positional (dec) and squishy (even if you completely disregard the lower dps) to make it anything less than last choice for any progression group. So while a sin happened to be in that group, they would have been better served taking almost anything else.

 

that's a cop-out. you could say the same thing for just about ANY spec out there. with the exception of a few specs, all classes deal with RNG, some more then others. and it could be the exception...and it could be the benchmark. saying its the exception favors your position in the argument, but it's not really what we should take as a fact.

 

The point CZ was trying to show (which is real) is that sins/shadows do increased damage during the burn phase, enough to make an impact on the metrics...and they get a bigger burn phase buff then most other AC's, which is why its critical to account for in the overall picture...which is why dummy parses are bad for comparisons.

 

That being said, they are doing less then expected...and Bio is buffing this. so really I don't see any reason why the OP should worry. this is IF the changes they make actually make a difference. But it is obvious that they feel the sin/shadow needs some help. and were getting it sooner rather then later.

[Maudril]

Go Tank. Deception can be fun, but far too burstey, RNG dependant, and position dependant. Madness, huge rampup time for decent damage makes fighting mobs a pain, so does very crappy force management. At 55, I have a MUCH easier time doing dailies as a tanksin in DPS gear than either of the DPS Specs. Even in tank gear, most mobs fall faster to me as a tank than madness assassin.

 

If you *must* DPS as an assassin go Deception, Madness is complete and utter trash.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

Go Tank. Deception can be fun, but far too burstey, RNG dependant, and position dependant. Madness, huge rampup time for decent damage makes fighting mobs a pain, so does very crappy force management. At 55, I have a MUCH easier time doing dailies as a tanksin in DPS gear than either of the DPS Specs. Even in tank gear, most mobs fall faster to me as a tank than madness assassin.

 

If you *must* DPS as an assassin go Deception, Madness is complete and utter trash.

 

Well, now Tank Sin for 2.5 is going to be complete trash, every Sin should swap to Deception unless they are already too deep into tanking.

[bdatt]

Play the role you want to play and get good at it. If you go dps, learn both depending in the fight or situation. Bringing deception into Nefra or madness into Draxus (just 2 examples) will be a disservice to your group, imo.

[VitalityPrime]

DPS is always the easiest and most forgiving class.

 

Your success does not rely on others.

[Maudril]

Well, now Tank Sin for 2.5 is going to be complete trash, every Sin should swap to Deception unless they are already too deep into tanking.

 

Alright. Better mitigation than the other two tanks, with very comparable spikiness to Jug tanks. Keyboard Ninja says that the damage taken on assassin tanks will be much less than the other two tanks in any op content, and they have always had better threat generation than the other two along with the best DPS.

 

Assassin tanks will be trash after their massive buff?

What are you smoking? You should share.

[Vhyle]

Alright. Better mitigation than the other two tanks, with very comparable spikiness to Jug tanks. Keyboard Ninja says that the damage taken on assassin tanks will be much less than the other two tanks in any op content, and they have always had better threat generation than the other two along with the best DPS.

 

Assassin tanks will be trash after their massive buff?

What are you smoking? You should share.

 

No kidding. Although I'm reserving my own judgement until I can see it in action, but from how it sounds, the sin tank will be pretty good in 2.5.

 

We'll see though.

[mr_twopercent]

Tankassin's are going to be trash??! Far from it! Sure theyre losing their uniqueness with the self heal but they are gaining big time in the mitigation department. I have a deception assassin sitting at 50 for months but have changed him over to darkness since I heard about the class changes in 2.5. I think they'll definitely be on par with juggs and PT's.

 

As for the OP, I would recommend trying all trees out and seeing which one you prefer. Everyone's experience is different. Just stick to the one you enjoy playing.