Riot Gas - accuracy debuff nearly useless in PVP

[FourPawnBenoni]

The slow is awesome in pvp...but the accuracy buff seems useless. I lay down riot gas and consistently get killed by dispatch, assassinate, quick draw, etc. Seems to me that for this to be a useful skill the accuracy debuff needs an additional 20% increase.

[ekimmak]

Keep in mind, that it's one of the few accuracy debuffs that can be used on operation bosses. Smoke Grenade from Sniper, or Pacify from Sentinel? Those are very explicitly NOT able to be used on OP bosses. I think it's balanced more around that.

[FourPawnBenoni]

This thread is for pvp purposes. If Operation Bosses was a factor they could easily change it so that the tooltip says something along the lines of "suffers a 50% accuracy loss. Note this is limited to 30% in operations"

[KeyboardNinja]

It's fairly strong even at 25%. People will still kill you, but you're reducing damage dealt by a LOT. Don't use it as an emergency cooldown. Rather, use it as a way to debuff a clumped group of players, especially sentinels and gunslingers. In PvP, it's a utility more than a CD.

[FourPawnBenoni]

It's fairly strong even at 25%. People will still kill you, but you're reducing damage dealt by a LOT. Don't use it as an emergency cooldown. Rather, use it as a way to debuff a clumped group of players, especially sentinels and gunslingers. In PvP, it's a utility more than a CD.

 

What I'm trying to explain is that it doesn't work. The debuff doesn't actually reduce their accuracy in a meaningful way.

[ekimmak]

What I'm trying to explain is that it doesn't work. The debuff doesn't actually reduce their accuracy in a meaningful way.

 

25% from 100% accuracy is 1 in 4, so that's one miss every four attacks. I won't pretend to understand PVP gearing, and assume that they get their basic attack stat up to 100%, which means that skill accuracy is 110%, leaving them with only a 15% chance of missing, or 3 attacks out of every 20.

 

Rather than using it as an emergency skill at the last second, you should use it in a way that it gets the maximum amount of people debuffed at once. Because recall, this isn't a single target attack. If it debuffed by a significant amount AND affected groups, then it would be called OP (come to think of it, Smash and Sweeping Slash have a similar effect. But I don't think it's as potent, which makes up for their longer uptime).

[ezrafetch]

The slow is awesome in pvp...but the accuracy buff seems useless. I lay down riot gas and consistently get killed by dispatch, assassinate, quick draw, etc. Seems to me that for this to be a useful skill the accuracy debuff needs an additional 20% increase.

 

Well, if you're only using it as an emergency when you're in execute range, you're not going to get the maximum effect. Given that it's an accuracy debuff, you're only going to realize the damage avoided over a period of time. They can hit 3/4 executes and still kill you if the 3 hits are the first 3.

 

Personally, if I see a pack of Snipers/Mercs bunch up, I'll group taunt, run/jump in, drop a Riot Gas, and hope that my team gets the idea picks up the slack and dominates them since you're lowering their output by a huge, huge amount (30% from the taunt and then the -25% accuracy). Of course, if they're smart, they'll try to burn you down, but you can always just hit HtL and hightail it out of there and/or use Reactive Shield. It's easiest on Hypergates in mid, but you can do it if they clump up nicely on CW/NC.

 

I don't see Riot Gas as something useful as a reactive tool. You have to be very very proactive with its usage.

[Aetideus]

Well, if you're only using it as an emergency when you're in execute range, you're not going to get the maximum effect. Given that it's an accuracy debuff, you're only going to realize the damage avoided over a period of time. They can hit 3/4 executes and still kill you if the 3 hits are the first 3.

 

Personally, if I see a pack of Snipers/Mercs bunch up, I'll group taunt, run/jump in, drop a Riot Gas, and hope that my team gets the idea picks up the slack and dominates them since you're lowering their output by a huge, huge amount (30% from the taunt and then the -25% accuracy). Of course, if they're smart, they'll try to burn you down, but you can always just hit HtL and hightail it out of there and/or use Reactive Shield. It's easiest on Hypergates in mid, but you can do it if they clump up nicely on CW/NC.

 

I don't see Riot Gas as something useful as a reactive tool. You have to be very very proactive with its usage.

 

^ ...And 1 vs1 to Snipers on node caps. And arenas....

[Zoom_VI]

25% from 100% accuracy is 1 in 4, so that's one miss every four attacks. I won't pretend to understand PVP gearing, and assume that they get their basic attack stat up to 100%, which means that skill accuracy is 110%, leaving them with only a 15% chance of missing, or 3 attacks out of every 20.

 

Rather than using it as an emergency skill at the last second, you should use it in a way that it gets the maximum amount of people debuffed at once. Because recall, this isn't a single target attack. If it debuffed by a significant amount AND affected groups, then it would be called OP (come to think of it, Smash and Sweeping Slash have a similar effect. But I don't think it's as potent, which makes up for their longer uptime).

 

In PvP you can assume opposing dps will have 95% accuracy, so raoit puts them at 70%, it also only effects M/R attacks not F/T.

 

No its not a god cooldown but, then again no AoE debuff in the game is more effective.

[Aetideus]

In PvP you can assume opposing dps will have 95% accuracy, so raoit puts them at 70%, it also only effects M/R attacks not F/T.

 

No its not a god cooldown but, then again no AoE debuff in the game is more effective.

 

A whole team maybe stopped in Void, HB and several node caps. M/R attacks are needed for procs. It is top debuff.

[Heroe]

I pop it as often as I can. I stack defense so I got almost 20% chance to dodge. With this on I get hit less often. Plus in lots of situations riot gas and hold the line will help u get away from trouble quick.

[Zoom_VI]

A whole team maybe stopped in Void, HB and several node caps. M/R attacks are needed for procs. It is top debuff.

 

I was reffering to it as a defensive measure standpoint, it still remains a very potent utility. Also having targets missing on M/R does not do anything for your procs as they require shielding.

[Zoom_VI]

I pop it as often as I can. I stack defense so I got almost 20% chance to dodge. With this on I get hit less often. Plus in lots of situations riot gas and hold the line will help u get away from trouble quick.

 

Stacking defense for PVP?!

Dude no, shield and absorb all the way. Defense stacking is only effective against a small handful of specs and even them shield will get you much better return

[Heroe]

Just on my augments.

[Zoom_VI]

Just on my augments.

 

Endurance dude, Endurance augs

Endurance is the single most useful points for a PvP (never stack this for ops) In PvP it brings the highest TTK by a wide margin over all other stats.

 

Defense is crap, if you insist on mitigation augs go for a mixture of shield and absorb

[Aetideus]

I was reffering to it as a defensive measure standpoint, it still remains a very potent utility. Also having targets missing on M/R does not do anything for your procs as they require shielding.

 

To their procs.

[unluckyperson]

I pop it as often as I can. I stack defense so I got almost 20% chance to dodge. With this on I get hit less often. Plus in lots of situations riot gas and hold the line will help u get away from trouble quick.

 

So the problem with this tactic is that you're great when it comes to dealing with a sniper/gunslinger in the left tree. Since defense doesn't affect force or tech attacks, it will only affect melee or ranged attacks, so that Sniper's 100% accuracy is immediately dropped down to 80% since your 20% dodge pushes that accuracy off the table. However when it comes to say a Vanguard/Powertech, or a Sage/Sorc you're in trouble. Since a lot of their attacks are Force or Tech.

 

Stacking defense in PvP is great if you know you're up against mostly non-tech and non-force attacking people, if not (which most specs are skewed heavier in force or tech attacks) you're in trouble.

[Zoom_VI]

To their procs.

 

So like its only good against like two specs in the game. You don't ever gear or spec on the assumption its better against two classes.

[Aetideus]

So like its only good against like two specs in the game. You don't ever gear or spec on the assumption its better against two classes.

 

It is good against any spec that relies on m/r to proc spec hits. Snipers and Warriors are no1. And guess who are no1 opponents also. Surely not operative dps in arenas or mercs. Although even for a merc or a powertech to lose a RS after TM or autocrit proc it is a gain.

[Zoom_VI]

It is good against any spec that relies on m/r to proc spec hits. Snipers and Warriors are no1. And guess who are no1 opponents also. Surely not operative dps in arenas or mercs. Although even for a merc or a powertech to lose a RS after TM or autocrit proc it is a gain.

 

Snipers don't have procs.

The only warrior tree with melee procs is carnage, in fact most procs ingame opccur on ability activation not ability hit. Besides murdering your mitigation just so you can deny one spec a couple procs is beyond sucide. There is simply no good reason to gimp yourself in such a manner.

 

And PT and mercs don't have autocrits either.

 

Shield and absorb. Your there to mitigate damage not to have an additional 7% chance dodge someone's proc

Edited October 28, 2013 by Zoom_VI

[Aetideus]

Snipers don't have procs.

The only warrior tree with melee procs is carnage, in fact most procs ingame opccur on ability activation not ability hit. Besides murdering your mitigation just so you can deny one spec a couple procs is beyond sucide. There is simply no good reason to gimp yourself in such a manner.

 

And PT and mercs don't have autocrits either.

 

Shield and absorb. Your there to mitigate damage not to have an additional 7% chance dodge someone's proc

 

Sniper attacks are ranged and all warrior specs rely to melee to build rage so both classes get out of the picture.

Even assins cannot rely to their melee attacks.

PT AP has autocrit and mercs have range bonus on RS respectively.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Aetideus

[Zoom_VI]

Sniper attacks are ranged and all warrior specs rely to melee to build rage so both classes get out of the picture.

Even assins cannot rely to their melee attacks.

PT AP has autocrit and mercs have range bonus on RS respectively.

 

The return on defense isn't worth it. You would have to have upwards of 30% defense to have anything approaching noticeable. You take shield and absorb and you live, you take defense and you are squishy as all get out.

 

Also AP's autocrat is nothing more than a glorified filler

[Aetideus]

The return on defense isn't worth it. You would have to have upwards of 30% defense to have anything approaching noticeable. You take shield and absorb and you live, you take defense and you are squishy as all get out.

 

Also AP's autocrat is nothing more than a glorified filler

 

Use of Riot Gas. No reference to Def rate.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Aetideus

[Zoom_VI]

Use of Riot Gas. No reference to Def rate.

 

Oh oops, had you confused with that other guy on the last page talking about augmenting with defense rating.

 

Well yes dumping raoit gas on a a few class does muck with them. Although I wouldn't list AP as one of those because RS really is just a filler, their immolate and PFT are what are their heavy hitters.

[PhatMcMuffins]

Accuracy is such a negligible stat in pvp and this is why the debuff is not strong enough. Smoke grenade/pacify put on much more of an accuracy debuff (enough to actually work in pvp)

 

While I as a healer find riot gas/oil slick so useful, I do agree that its accuracy debuff is nearly pointless in pvp because it is not enough considering anything other than a tank is not going to have a very high defense chance without a dcd popped.