Solutions to class stories?

[Dallayna]

Now I'm no game dev, but my impression is that when they release a new planet, class stories would more or less have to be planned with it from the ground up. You may have noticed while leveling that there is generally a good flow with quests leading to each other, a flow class quests match. So Bioware will need to set up class specific instances(locked out locations in the planet) in order to match this flow. Additionally, those 8 or 16 extra missions of work become 1 to 2 missions of actual game experience for the players. Now I think that the difference in quality makes such an exchange worthwhile(especially when taking into account how class stories promote alt rolling which contributes an enormous amount of additional play time and adds replay time to general questlines), but it remains to be seen whether Bioware is convinced of that.

 

Actually, that was my point- that it would be cheaper for the developers to build a couple of class missions into a new expansion from when they start developing the expansion since the expansion is going to happen anyway- after all in MMO's its release expansions or pretty much die off so, just how much more difficult would it be for them to toss a couple of extra people into the room when they start the development process?

 

So, for example, let's take Makeb: there had to be developers that were in control of the planet itself, then there were the folks in charge of the mobs, someone had to keep track of the overall plot-lines, and someone else had to take care of the voice recordings, and so on and so on and so on..... These people all had to be there in order for Makeb to be put together. They were going to be there, regardless. So, why not just toss a couple of people in charge of the one or two quests for the classes?

 

You'll note, of course that although this is a very slight difference from what other class content advocates are calling for- it is one that makes a huge difference for any company when it comes to their bottom-line because it's far cheaper to add an extra goal to a group already working on a project then it is to get a separate project together for a goal.

 

As for the flow and the experience and locked out areas- those all have to be considered for any expansion- again, regardless because all of that has to be considered for all missions: Class, planetary, daily, heroic, etc, etc, etc. So, effectively, all you're really doing is making a few more, and further by keeping that amount down to one or two, you are also making their impact fairly negligible as far as time, money, and effect while making a huge difference when it comes to players who are screaming "More Class Content or I Walk" and re-playability.

 

Now, granted, this would mean that players would have to reduce their expectations but that's what a compromise is: each party gives up a little something to get a little bit of what they want. The company's giving a little bit of extra production time and expense in exchange for a happier and more consistent player base and less grief from the players for concentrating the majority of their energies on faction-based content, the players are giving in by reducing their expectations and accepting that one or two missions are far better then none and are getting those one or two missions in exchange for backing down a little on their demands.

 

But, again, that's just my thought.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Dallayna

[ChillingFear]

Actually, that was my point- that it would be cheaper for the developers to build a couple of class missions into a new expansion from when they start developing the expansion since the expansion is going to happen anyway- after all in MMO's its release expansions or pretty much die off so, just how much more difficult would it be for them to toss a couple of extra people into the room when they start the development process?

 

So, for example, let's take Makeb: there had to be developers that were in control of the planet itself, then there were the folks in charge of the mobs, someone had to keep track of the overall plot-lines, and someone else had to take care of the voice recordings, and so on and so on and so on..... These people all had to be there in order for Makeb to be put together. They were going to be there, regardless. So, why not just toss a couple of people in charge of the one or two quests for the classes?

 

You'll note, of course that although this is a very slight difference from what other class content advocates are calling for- it is one that makes a huge difference for any company when it comes to their bottom-line because it's far cheaper to add an extra goal to a group already working on a project then it is to get a separate project together for a goal.

 

As for the flow and the experience and locked out areas- those all have to be considered for any expansion- again, regardless because all of that has to be considered for all missions: Class, planetary, daily, heroic, etc, etc, etc. So, effectively, all you're really doing is making a few more, and further by keeping that amount down to one or two, you are also making their impact fairly negligible as far as time, money, and effect while making a huge difference when it comes to players who are screaming "More Class Content or I Walk" and re-playability.

 

Now, granted, this would mean that players would have to reduce their expectations but that's what a compromise is: each party gives up a little something to get a little bit of what they want. The company's giving a little bit of extra production time and expense in exchange for a happier and more consistent player base and less grief from the players for concentrating the majority of their energies on faction-based content, the players are giving in by reducing their expectations and accepting that one or two missions are far better then none and are getting those one or two missions in exchange for backing down a little on their demands.

 

But, again, that's just my thought.

 

Well said

[Lunafox]

I support and whole heartedly desire extensions of individual class and companion stories. I also think that the voice overs are imperative for the success of these.

 

If cost is an issue, I think it would suffice if only the class and companion stories were voice. Generic quests where you have to kill '20' of something, could be text, if that helps.

 

I think it's sad that our toons, got married in this game, and there is nothing to even reflect that...no more letters...or gifts. Even a monthly 'love' letter from our companions would help. Atleast it would be something.

 

How hard is it for someone on the staff to write and send out some letters? I'd do it....hell I'd do it for free lol. I just want some of the joy brought back to the game for people who love story.

[Dallayna]

I support and whole heartedly desire extensions of individual class and companion stories. I also think that the voice overs are imperative for the success of these.

 

If cost is an issue, I think it would suffice if only the class and companion stories were voice. Generic quests where you have to kill '20' of something, could be text, if that helps.

 

I think it's sad that our toons, got married in this game, and there is nothing to even reflect that...no more letters...or gifts. Even a monthly 'love' letter from our companions would help. Atleast it would be something.

 

How hard is it for someone on the staff to write and send out some letters? I'd do it....hell I'd do it for free lol. I just want some of the joy brought back to the game for people who love story.

 

I adored the love letters from the companions! It also always puzzled me that a specific comment from "the peanut gallery" during certain scenes from love interest companions who were romanced, like Corso's remarks on Voss about the female smuggler being "so taken. Very taken. Highly taken." (or something to that effect) weren't more common because, as you observed, neither one would have taken nor would take very much beyond an extra line or two from a VA during production and/or, as you said, someone to just type up the letters and it really did make that romance between them actually seem much more realistic to me while I was playing my smuggy during that scene. But, then again, when it comes to specific comments, I also have to admit that not all companions would be so vocal, I mean, Vector, for example was weirdly a-okay with "sharing" while going through that same planet on my female Agent making me wonder if he would have said anything even with a bigger budget so, it may not have all been a cost decision when it came to companions and their comments.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Dallayna

[Laris_Rai]

Try and show some self restraint, or at the very least some common sense when responding, clearly the title of the post itself ends with a question mark. So I'm not sure if you are missing the point of the post itself or not, but let me shed some light on it for you, this post is supposed to be a collaboration of thoughts for solutions and ideas to improve and add to class story. If your able to read that, then try reading the rest where I talk about people who moan and groan about things yet offer no solutions

 

Oh, I understood what you were going for. I just don't what you think you're going to accomplish. Do you really think the forum is going to come up with some solution that people who actually make the game haven't thought of? If they even consider this a problem.

[Lunafox]

I adored the love letters from the companions! It also always puzzled me that a specific comment from "the peanut gallery" during certain scenes from love interest companions who were romanced, like Corso's remarks on Voss about the female smuggler being "so taken. Very taken. Highly taken." (or something to that effect) weren't more common because, as you observed, neither one would have taken nor would take very much beyond an extra line or two from a VA during production and/or, as you said, someone to just type up the letters and it really did make that romance between them actually seem much more realistic to me while I was playing my smuggy during that scene. But, then again, when it comes to specific comments, I also have to admit that not all companions would be so vocal, I mean, Vector, for example was weirdly a-okay with "sharing" while going through that same planet on my female Agent making me wonder if he would have said anything even with a bigger budget so, it may not have all been a cost decision when it came to companions and their comments.

 

I think I hear the electrons singing! He hee, I understand what you're saying. I was amused by Corso's possessiveness. I know some weren't, but I kinda liked it. Vector ties with Quinn to me for favorite romance, and like you, I was like...'dayum Vector, stand up and say something. Don't let that business on Voss go down!' I do think his collective buggy nature is responsible for this, but he did have an understanding that some things are just for him and the agent only. *wink*

 

I was reading somewhere that when humans are exposed to killicks for an extended period of time, they start to take on their qualities a bit. I think it would fascinating to see if Agent does that...and in turn being away from his buggy friends would make Vector more humanized...they would definitely then be closer together I think...

[Dallayna]

I think I hear the electrons singing! He hee, I understand what you're saying. I was amused by Corso's possessiveness. I know some weren't, but I kinda liked it. Vector ties with Quinn to me for favorite romance, and like you, I was like...'dayum Vector, stand up and say something. Don't let that business on Voss go down!' I do think his collective buggy nature is responsible for this, but he did have an understanding that some things are just for him and the agent only. *wink*

 

I was reading somewhere that when humans are exposed to killicks for an extended period of time, they start to take on their qualities a bit. I think it would fascinating to see if Agent does that...and in turn being away from his buggy friends would make Vector more humanized...they would definitely then be closer together I think...

 

Actually, if memory serves (I love the Vector romance which is why both of my Agents thusfar have been female- way better then Kailyo- love her like a sister but I just hear- well... Corso in the back of my head "Dear Lord, now that's the kinda ugly that glows in the dark! Ain't enough ale in all of Corrilia!" every time I try to roll a male- but not the point). the point is that:

 

 

Vector seems to be very careful about limiting the agent's exposure for that reason and even comments at least once as I recall. "I believe that we can return in time before you may become affected by the hive's influence" (or something like that when you get invited to the "party" for example.)

 

That always gave me the impression that he actually thinks the fact that the agent isn't joined to the hive is sexy because some of his letters do comment about how wonderful it is that he can't just automatically "know" the agent but has to "discover" her on his own. (I'm also pretty sure that our dear Vec ain't exactly "Killik Vanilla" as a result either for that exact reason- but again, I digress)

 

 

Point is that, I don't think that Vector would really be all that jazzed by the Agent Joining. As for Vector being away from the hive.

 

 

I also thought that his being away from the hive's influence was what allowed him to suppress it for that one scene where you get the choice of encouraging his redeveloping his humanity or encouraging him to be his buggy self by reassuring him that you really do love him just as he is.

 

 

Well, either that or our dear diplomat may have some Force Sensitivity that no one's ever been aware of before.

 

And, I thought the romance with Corso was funny as heck! Granted, the "drunk" scene ticked me off a little the first time around but after pondering it- yeah, it was keeping in line with the character's background and motivations. but that scene on Voss almost had me falling out my chair, I was laughing so hard.

 

But for sheer, absolute, no-hold's-bar Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?!!!! humor though:

Vette and the LS male Warrior. Gotta be, hands down Vette and the LS male warrior.

 

 

The shock collar comment just bowled me over and even as a player, my double-take must have been hilarious in and of itself: "Wait- WHAT?!!!!" before I started laughing: "OMG, she really just DID say that!!!!"

 

 

 

It was a beautiful way to end that romance imo.

 

And....

 

/ End Hijack

 

 

We now return you to your normally scheduled *****-fest

Edited October 10, 2013 by Dallayna

[Lunafox]

Actually, if memory serves (I love the Vector romance which is why both of my Agents thusfar have been female- way better then Kailyo- love her like a sister but I just hear- well... Corso in the back of my head "Dear Lord, now that's the kinda ugly that glows in the dark! Ain't enough ale in all of Corrilia!" every time I try to roll a male- but not the point). the point is that:

 

 

Vector seems to be very careful about limiting the agent's exposure for that reason and even comments at least once as I recall. "I believe that we can return in time before you may become affected by the hive's influence" (or something like that when you get invited to the "party" for example.)

 

That always gave me the impression that he actually thinks the fact that the agent isn't joined to the hive is sexy because some of his letters do comment about how wonderful it is that he can't just automatically "know" the agent but has to "discover" her on his own. (I'm also pretty sure that our dear Vec ain't exactly "Killik Vanilla" as a result either for that exact reason- but again, I digress)

 

 

Point is that, I don't think that Vector would really be all that jazzed by the Agent Joining. As for Vector being away from the hive.

 

 

I also thought that his being away from the hive's influence was what allowed him to suppress it for that one scene where you get the choice of encouraging his redeveloping his humanity or encouraging him to be his buggy self by reassuring him that you really do love him just as he is.

 

 

Well, either that or our dear diplomat may have some Force Sensitivity that no one's ever been aware of before.

 

And, I thought the romance with Corso was funny as heck! Granted, the "drunk" scene ticked me off a little the first time around but after pondering it- yeah, it was keeping in line with the character's background and motivations. but that scene on Voss almost had me falling out my chair, I was laughing so hard.

 

But for sheer, absolute, no-hold's-bar Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?!!!! humor though:

Vette and the LS male Warrior. Gotta be, hands down Vette and the LS male warrior.

 

 

The shock collar comment just bowled me over and even as a player, my double-take must have been hilarious in and of itself: "Wait- WHAT?!!!!" before I started laughing: "OMG, she really just DID say that!!!!"

 

 

 

It was a beautiful way to end that romance imo.

 

And....

 

/ End Hijack

 

 

We now return you to your normally scheduled *****-fest

 

Do we have to go back to the normally scheduled *****-fest? LOL. I'm rather enjoying this. You bring up a lot of valid points about Vector. I had forgotten about the point you brought up about the letter. I suppose discovery is more interesting than being joined. I just thought that being together for as long as they have been, that they'd take on some of each other's qualities. I do love the variety they have in the companions personalities, some like Corso and Doc are really funny, and they you get sweet and tender like Vector, and then the prim, intelligence of Malavai.

 

Only toons I wish had more choices were SI and Trooper. I think I'm going to have to give LS SW a shot though...that's about the only angle I haven't tried yet.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Lunafox

[ShiningKnights]

Sell expansion class stories on the CC. We know it's a proven way to make Bioware money.

[Lunafox]

Sell expansion class stories on the CC. We know it's a proven way to make Bioware money.

 

I would buy them. It would be nice if they gave them for free, but I would rather have stories and pay then not have them at all.

[Ghostius]

No people here definitely understand that this is SWTOR and not KOTOR 3, SWTOR was built from the foundation of story driven content (at least initially). They advertised it as such and pushed the product out stating that this "MMO" was based on a 4th pillar of content which was story.

 

I think there is no use of giving BW any ideas. They said there wont be any new class stories.

As much as I would like to see more stories, fact is that class stories last too short for the time it needs to be developed.

Even if they make new class stories, lets face it- we will finish it in a day. And then what? Cost is just much larger than benefit.

[ChillingFear]

Oh, I understood what you were going for. I just don't what you think you're going to accomplish. Do you really think the forum is going to come up with some solution that people who actually make the game haven't thought of? If they even consider this a problem.

 

 

Whether the forum does or doesn't come up with ideas what is it to you if you obviously dont care? So like I told you before, this post IS about coming up with possible solutions or ideas to character class story in some way shape or form. Seems pretty simple to me if you dont want to contribute, then find a different post to lurk in.

[ChillingFear]

I think there is no use of giving BW any ideas. They said there wont be any new class stories.

As much as I would like to see more stories, fact is that class stories last too short for the time it needs to be developed.

Even if they make new class stories, lets face it- we will finish it in a day. And then what? Cost is just much larger than benefit.

 

All realistic points but then again if you reading the full length of posts made by both myself and others you'd see that people have been coming up with ideas that would be both cost efficient and still contribute to individual classes in some way. Bioware has stated a lot of things that they ended up either not following through with, or doing after they said they wouldn't. Your right people might finish things in a day, this is an MMO, and unfortunately content gets ran through on a very quick basis that's the nature of the beast. I still don't think that's a good reason to not at least explore the idea (which is what this post is about).

[RaiderMid]

To me the solution is simple. Add to the individual class stories or lose my money. There are other MMO's coming out that I want to try and the only thing that seperates this game from other MMO's is the class stories.

[Laris_Rai]

Whether the forum does or doesn't come up with ideas what is it to you if you obviously dont care? So like I told you before, this post IS about coming up with possible solutions or ideas to character class story in some way shape or form. Seems pretty simple to me if you dont want to contribute, then find a different post to lurk in.

 

I do care that you still haven't explained what good you think this will actually do.

[ChillingFear]

I do care that you still haven't explained what good you think this will actually do.

 

You talk about class story and what good it will do as if there is some kind of explanation that is owed to you. Just like any other feature or piece of content in the game, this is something that individuals (including myself) would like to see continued. And if you read in some of the past posts made by both myself and a few other individuals here you would see there are some ideas with slight compromises that were thought of to keep a cost effective way of possibly adding to individual character classes in some way. So AGAIN (and for the last time) I'll repeat not only the purpose of the post, but I'll further break it down for you and explain why you dont need to an explanation on what this post may or may not do. So AGAIN, this post's purpose is for individuals who care to contribute (which you have still not done yet continue to sit back and pretend to critique everything) to any relevant ideas on possible ways to add additions to character class story in some way, people in this thread understand that making individualized class story content may not be a financially easy thing for Bioware to do, but alternatives were brought up that could minimize costs and still contribute to story in some way. Now as for your stance on why you feel you need an explanation on why a simple post, will or will not make a difference doesn't hold relevance here for 2 reasons. 1) because this a general post from players (just like any other post here in these forums) who are using this to voice OPINIONS and desires for certain things they would either like to see in-game or have improved in-game. And 2) I'm not sure how highly you think of yourself but nobody here owes you anything including myself. Now I'm done entertaining your irrelevant comments seeing as this post isn't about pleasing you or giving you satisfactory explanations that you aren't entitled to seeing as this is a general discussion (on the topic at hand) for other players in the community/Bioware staff alike. So I'll say it again, if you don't have any ideas or contributions to be made to this post then go find a different one that suits both your taste and interests.

Edited October 11, 2013 by ChillingFear

[ChillingFear]

So I'll now take the opportunity to put the conversation back on track and hopefully continue discussion on any possible solutions to class stories being brought back into game seeing as the topic has been pulled into a different direction. Possible ideas were having Bioware continue with their normal routine of planet stories but "peppering" in some individualized class story as an alternative that may be more cost efficient yet still add to overall class story arcs. A few examples of this that people were mentioning, were to have a Makeb style storyline, where each class has 1-2 unique quest-lines individual and unique to them (making the necessary "story content" around 8-16 pieces of different content that would be developed and in turn would cost less than doing something on a bigger scale). Another idea that was thrown around, that I thought could add not only to the replayability of planet story arcs such as Makeb (and doing it with alts and help with the overall repetitiveness of it) would be to have the shared quests and their mechanics be slightly modified depending on what class your playing. It would give players a way to see and experience something different with multiple characters, and at the same time make some type of contribution to individual classes that we haven't seen since the initial content. For example, if you have an assassin, you will be doing something stealthed etc. Another idea that I threw out there would be to change overall objectives within these shared quests and change the conversations that take place between them for each class. For example, your mercenary is supposed to steal "some plans" at whatever objective point it may be, and you get to see it play out from that perspective, vs your sorceror is to blow up those plans and you see different conversations take place with the same NPC's and experience it differently that way. What I think this new "model" might do is not only as I stated increase replayability on these planet story arcs, but also create someway of bridging the gap of individual class content for each class. I think players will look forward to future planet story content (not that they may not at the moment) and be excited to see what will happen next seeing as different outcomes and things happened differently for each class. They could then continue those stories and unique conversations with the next bit of content. I think ideas such as this, would be a way of making a compromise to having individual class story, and keep a similar model and direction of content that Bioware seems to be developing for the game up to this point. It may also serve as a measurement or tool to gauge their audience and see how much people still enjoy the somewhat individualized content, before exploring the idea of a "chapter 4" story arc of sorts.

 

Either way I think that going this route doesnt effectively change the type of content that is being developed (from a player perspective) a whole lot, so if your a fan of the normal story arcs and the way they have been going at the current moment, then it will function and play pretty much the same, but will serve as something less repetitive, and also meet the individual class story lovers like myself in the middle. At the very least it would make things less repetitive running through these quests and content with alts. Bioware developed the Legacy system etc and made the game revolve around individual class story which really encourages rolling alts, I think starting to make some type of content (however big or small) unique or slightly different to classes will continue to reinforce the idea in the future.

[KnighteStar]

I'd release overarching stories. I'd say that the main storyarc is the same for a better sense that something BIG is happening. That is one thing that I missed with the class stories, that I never felt connected with anyone else's story and everyone was just doing their own thing. I'd like for the story to be a place to cooperate with other players. At the same time, more individuality would make me happy and a little more companion interaction throughout the story. I definitely would like some missions where there would be "report to this person" if you're a trooper and another for the Jedi Knight, where you are pursuing different objectives and different sides of a massive assault on a planet. That would be, I think, great. Or, y'know, just mix up the order of missions to make it more unique.

[Dallayna]

So I'll now take the opportunity to put the conversation back on track and hopefully continue discussion on any possible solutions to class stories being brought back into game seeing as the topic has been pulled into a different direction. Possible ideas were having Bioware continue with their normal routine of planet stories but "peppering" in some individualized class story as an alternative that may be more cost efficient yet still add to overall class story arcs. A few examples of this that people were mentioning, were to have a Makeb style storyline, where each class has 1-2 unique quest-lines individual and unique to them (making the necessary "story content" around 8-16 pieces of different content that would be developed and in turn would cost less than doing something on a bigger scale).

 

Actually, it would be one quest-"line" (If two missions could be called that) and about 2 missions. So going back to Makeb for example:

 

Your Smuggy shows up on the planet and gets a holo from one of your contacts or maybe they're even there on the docking ring or space station: "Yo Boss, we got a serious problem. Thank goodness you're on the planet, here's what we need....."

 

So the conversation tells you that some idiot's trying to threaten your very carefully developed network or whatever and they happen to be on Makeb. Well, first you have to find them so, hack the network so your contact can find this guy. That's mission #1.

 

So you hack the network and find the guy. You either holocom your contact or go back and talk to him to get the location. He tells you where the guy is so you can perform the necessary beat-down. That would be mission #2.

 

You turn that in with one last conversation and that's it, you're done. Peppered with a couple of comments from your companions and if it was interesting enough, I honestly don't think anyone would mind too much if that was it and it seems highly doable cost-wise for the devs to put in while they're making the expansion.

 

So. 2 missions * 8 Classes would be 16 missions per planet total.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Dallayna

[ImpactHound]

And fully voiced cut scenes is what sets TOR apart from many other MMOs. So it's irrelevant even if it's true that that feature is more "single player."

 

Age of Wushu uses factionless, classless character design to set itself apart from other MMOs. Neither drive subscriptions to make either game anything other than a niche title.

 

My comment was steered toward implying that if that was the main feature he liked about the game, he would probably be happier playing single-player games; He is not being excluded from MMO opportunities, but the genre as a whole favors gameplay and mechanics over story, which is in conflict to his likes.

[Desolaytore]

I would love to see more class specific, but do not see it coming anytime soon. There are a few main barriers to class specific content.

 

1. Voice Acting

-This is a very expensive thing to do on such a large level, and would require a day or two at least per class in the recording room.

 

They've already said a hundred times the voice acting isn't expensive.

[VitalityPrime]

I will say this...

 

...as much as I would love more class stories...I would NEVER want them to come out with story content with no voice-over.

 

I would rather wait three years for voice-over content then get story content with no voice-over twice a year.

Edited October 11, 2013 by VitalityPrime

[chuixupu]

Sell expansion class stories on the CC. We know it's a proven way to make Bioware money.

 

When people put those datacubes in the packs people had a fit. So much so that they said they would not put even the most tiny insignificant story content on the CM ever again.

 

I think they could find ways to compromise somewhat with class stories if they could at least give us some minor quest chains that linked up to the main storyline. Like on Makeb, rather than everyone in the faction talking to all the same exact people, we could have talked with people familiar to our storyline, even if just at the beginning or the end. I would have also liked it if they could have at least had our companions respond to conversations like they do in the class stories. Or at least give us a unique side quest that is completely class specific.

[ChillingFear]

I will say this...

 

...as much as I would love more class stories...I would NEVER want them to come out with story content with no voice-over.

 

I would rather wait three years for voice-over content then get story content with no voice-over twice a year.

 

I agree that I would rather have voice-overed story content than any type of text based alternative, however I think its pretty safe to say that Bioware will be doing continued content (somewhat voiced) either way.

[Laris_Rai]

You talk about class story and what good it will do as if there is some kind of explanation that is owed to you. Just like any other feature or piece of content in the game, this is something that individuals (including myself) would like to see continued. And if you read in some of the past posts made by both myself and a few other individuals here you would see there are some ideas with slight compromises that were thought of to keep a cost effective way of possibly adding to individual character classes in some way.

 

So yes, you think that SOMEHOW random people on the forum are going to come up with a solution that the people who actually make game haven't thought of. You could have said that in the first place when I asked.