Hazed Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) Due to recent revelations about imposed limits on CC purchases, I am inclined to believe EA has done no wrongdoing. However, the reasoning behind the imposition of these limits still remains very unclear.. and they do highlight the real problem which is not only gambling addiction but a combination of both gaming and gambling. I will let the thread continue to decide what is right and wrong given the current information. [Redacted] as per Merriam Webster's gam·ble verb \ˈgam-bəl\ : to play a game in which you can win or lose money or possessions : to bet money or other valuable things : to risk losing (an amount of money) in a game or bet : to risk losing (something valuable or important) in order to do or achieve something [Redacted] Edited October 4, 2013 by Hazed Revising due revelation of imposed limits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNahash Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 You get something. Just not what you were looking for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 You get something. Just not what you were looking for. Hence you are gambling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedip_enguin Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 So by your logic, Pokemon card packs et al are gambling? Better alert the gaming commissions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNahash Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 gam·ble verb \ˈgam-bəl\ : to play a game in which you can win or lose money or possessions : to bet money or other valuable things You can't win money. You also can't lose money, because you're getting something in return. : to risk losing (an amount of money) in a game or bet You're not losing money. You buy something (a pack) knowing that the contents vary, but there is ALWAYS something in that pack. It's never empty. : to risk losing (something valuable or important) in order to do or achieve something I'm sorry, but I don't get this. So, if we are to define gambling as "the risk of losing something in order to do or achieve something" isn't playing the game gambling? I risk losing money trying to kill a Boss that I can't (because I'm undergeared, don't know tactics etc.). Am I gambling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidatwood Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Umm I believe that what makes gambling illegal is that the government don't get taxes on it. So I think BW is safe ... But you could see a lawyer to see where you stand on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illgot Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 by your loose definition (ok the dictionaries) you gamble every time you queue up for something. never know what you are going to get, but you get something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bstr Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) Gambling would be if you could give up CC in order to have a chance at winning CC. Or it would be giving up some CM item in order to have a chance at some other CM item. You have the risk of losing what you gave up and not getting anything. The CM packs are more like Trading Card Packs: you have a certain chance of getting a certain card, but you are guaranteed to get something. EDIT: OP mentions on pg 2 that he just wants the odds posted. This is fine: post something in the Suggestion box. Edited October 3, 2013 by Bstr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorAndy Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Gambling is illegal? Quick! Someone tell Las Vegas. With regard to the RNG packs, they are not gambling. You are spending money for a package which has rare items. It's like any trading card game pack in the last 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laiov Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Cartel Coins are not money and have no value. When you buy them, you are not converting from one currency to another. You're buying Monopoly paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 Well I would simply like the odds posted somewhere i.e. chance at "item A" = .0035% This would allow the consumer to determine roughly how many packs they should expect to buy when chasing a specific item. I know I wont spend all my cartel coins till its listed somewhere, I simply buy the stuff I want off the GTN with credits.. Anyone can make money all day taking advantage of people who simply don't understand the chances of getting something. Post the odds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 Gambling is illegal? Quick! Someone tell Las Vegas. With regard to the RNG packs, they are not gambling. You are spending money for a package which has rare items. It's like any trading card game pack in the last 20 years. The trading cards have a separate purpose i.e. MTG cards are used for constructed play Contents of a cartel pack are by and large useless.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bstr Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 The trading cards have a separate purpose i.e. MTG cards are used for constructed play Contents of a cartel pack are by and large useless.. What about sport trading cards? Do those have a purpose? Most do not, except to look cool. Most of the contents of a cartel pack are just aesthetics to look cool. Posting the odds of getting a certain item might be good. Post something in the CM Suggestion Forum above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNahash Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Well I would simply like the odds posted somewhere Then why didn't you say that instead of giving us the dictionary's definition of gambling, by which a hundred other stuff could also be labeled "illegal gambling"? I'll never understand why people choose slander over reason to get something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Grand_Nagus Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) Sorry OP, but you are technically incorrect. You see, the actual money that you pay is used to buy CARTEL COINS. And you know the EXACT odds of whether you will get those coins... 100%. So that is a straight up purchase, no gambling involved. What you choose to spend those coins on, whether it is a specific item, unlock, or even a hypercrate is completely up to you. But at that point, you are no longer spending money. And furthermore, you "win" every time you open a hypercrate. You may not get the specific item you wanted, but you still get something. You can call that gambling if you want, but you are gambling with cartel coins, not with actual money. Edited October 3, 2013 by The_Grand_Nagus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) Then why didn't you say that instead of giving us the dictionary's definition of gambling, by which a hundred other stuff could also be labeled "illegal gambling"? I'll never understand why people choose slander over reason to get something. I never understood some people's incessant need to argue in circles around what they really want. "This is illegal gambling and they should stop it...Well I just wanted them to list the odds." "PVE is stupid and everyone who plays it is stupid...Well I just wanted more warzones." "The GTN is terrible and unusable...Well I just want to sort by unit price." Edited October 3, 2013 by MillionsKNives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Cartel Coins are not money and have no value. When you buy them, you are not converting from one currency to another. You're buying Monopoly paper. But but you are gambling with the mon... Oh, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 The dictionary definition of gambling is not the same as the legal definition of gambling, which will vary from place to place. Under the dictionary definition of gambling everyone who opens a business is gambling(which is not the type of gambling the law is concerned with). If you believe your country has a specific prohibition against things like trading card packs and cartel packs, by all means go ahead and try to sue. Otherwise you're just wasting everyone's time, just like everyone else who doesn't understand that the law is not concerned with the dictionary definition of gambling, but rather specific types of gambling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 The dictionary definition of gambling is not the same as the legal definition of gambling, which will vary from place to place. Under the dictionary definition of gambling everyone who opens a business is gambling(which is not the type of gambling the law is concerned with). If you believe your country has a specific prohibition against things like trading card packs and cartel packs, by all means go ahead and try to sue. Otherwise you're just wasting everyone's time, just like everyone else who doesn't understand that the law is not concerned with the dictionary definition of gambling, but rather specific types of gambling. here you go haus, a legal definition c/p from: http://definitions.uslegal.com/g/gambling/ (Sources beneath) Gambling Law & Legal Definition A person engages in gambling if he stakes or risks something of value upon the outcome of a contest of chance or a future contingent event not under his control or influence, upon an agreement or understanding that he or someone else will receive something of value in the event of a certain outcome. Gambling does not include bona fide business transactions valid under the law of contracts, such as the purchase or sale at a future date of securities or commodities, contracts of indemnity or guaranty and life, health or accident insurance. Federal law defines illegal gambling activity as: Is a violation of the law of the state in which it is conducted; and (Involves five or more persons who conduct, finance, manage, supervise, direct or own all or part of such business; and Has been or remains in substantially continuous operation for a period in excess of thirty days, or has a gross revenue of $2,000 in any single day. State laws on illegal gambling activity vary by state and often include offenses for possessing illegal gambling devices and promoting illegal gambling activity. An illegal gambling device is any device, machine, paraphernalia or equipment that is normally used or usable in the playing phases of any gambling activity, whether that activity consists of gambling between persons or gambling by a person involving the playing of a machine. However, lottery tickets, policy slips and other items used in the playing phases of lottery and policy schemes are not gambling devices within this definition. Gambling is accepting, recording, or registering bets, or carrying on a policy game or any other lottery, or playing any game of chance, for money or other thing of value. Title 18, U.S.C., Sec. 1955, makes it a federal crime or offense for anyone to conduct an 'illegal gambling business.' An 'illegal gambling business' is defined to be a gambling business which: Is a violation of the law of the state in which it is conducted; and Involves five or more persons who conduct, finance, manage, supervise, direct or own all or part of such business; and Has been or remains in substantially continuous operation for a period in excess of thirty days, or has a gross revenue of $2,000 in any single day. State laws also govern gambling. Some states prohibit public wagers or betting by minors, while others allow wagering up to a certain amount. In some states parimutuel betting on horse races at the tracks is legal and most states operate or participate in daily and weekly lotteries. Some states, however, particularly those along the Mississippi River, restrict casino gambling to riverboats. Since passage of the federal Indian Gaming Regulatory Act of 1988, states have been required to permit on reservations any type of gambling that is permitted off-reservation. Gambling is a significant source of revenue in their respective states and the subject of controversy due to the social ills which have been argued to be connected to it, such as organized crime and gambling addiction. Relevant legal forms include: Jury Instruction - Illegal Gambling Business (Bookmaking) Jury Instruction - Transmission Of Wagering Information Jury Instruction - Interstate Transportation Of Wagering Paraphernalia (Bookmaking) ------------------------------------------------------------- Note it states something of value not only money.. since money in the U.S. is nothing more than an I.O.U. in the first place. Cartel Coins have an inherent value.. same as any currency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oaceen Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Contents of a cartel pack are by and large useless.. then why is this even an issue? just don't buy them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazed Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 then why is this even an issue? just don't buy them Because people with legitimate gambling addictions are playing this game.. and we do them no justice by allowing someone to profit off their inability to make smart decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 here you go haus, a legal definition <snip>. So you have only confirmed what I stated. The law is only concerned with specific types of gambling, and the law is subject to location. If you believe your state laws make cartel packs an illegal activity, by all means sue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 (edited) Note it states something of value not only money.. since money in the U.S. is nothing more than an I.O.U. in the first place. Cartel Coins have an inherent value.. same as any currency. You gain something of value every single time. You can't lose. Edited October 3, 2013 by MillionsKNives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yukonsnow Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Besides, it's on the internet. If it is gambling, it's in cyberspace. good luck with applying your local laws to cyberspace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laiov Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 Gambling involves the chance risking of money or objects having asset value. Again, CC is neither. They have no asset value. When you submit your yearly taxes, you don't include your cartel coin subscriber bonuses. The argument is completely ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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