Do you agree with the "Redemption" petition?

[ScarletBlaze]

Nope, and it's clear that you're 100% against this petition. This thread should be closed as the poll can be manipulated without any clear indication of what's real or not. You're also not reaching out to the PvP community(I am not going to do that for you).

 

The fact is that I welcome anybody to sign the petition, and if some "Maniac" decides to create fake accounts, I'm sure BioWare could sort it out.

 

I looked at your petition and I found that you required an email as well. There is one thing about asking for a forum name but asking for someone's personal email? Don't think so.

 

People have used people email for various other things. For a petition such as this an email should not be used and I am taking about yours, not the one here asking if people agreed or not.

 

This one didn't ask for any information but yours did and a lot of my friends don't give out their emails because of various reasons to people they don't know.

 

There is no reason to ask for an email in a petition at all.

Edited September 24, 2013 by ScarletBlaze

[Sir-Coffee]

I looked at your petition and I found that you required an email as well. There is one thing about asking for a forum name but asking for someone's personal email? Don't think so.

 

People have used people email for various other things. For a petition such as this an email should not be used and I am taking about yours, not the one here asking if people agreed or not.

 

This one didn't ask for any information but yours did and a lot of my friends don't give out their emails because of various reasons to people they don't know.

 

There is no reason to ask for an email in a petition at all.

We didn't like that either. 100% valid reason not to sign it if you don't trust us. Sadly, we tried to remove it but couldn't.

 

*Edit* Although, BioWare stepped up security big time so if we had any malicious intent to hack your account, we would need to get your password/security key(If you have one), and security questions.

 

Still understandable if you don't want to sign it.

Edited September 24, 2013 by SithEBM

[Sir-Coffee]

Not at all. I was originally against the way the petition was worded, but for the most part that has been addressed

 

I have a difficult time believing you.

[The_Grand_Nagus]

I have a difficult time believing you.

 

If you look at every comment I have made about the petition, the only complaint I have had was with the way it was originally worded. I have never said one thing to disagree with the points being made in it. Feel free to check my post history for proof

[Sir-Coffee]

If you look at every comment I have made about the petition, the only complaint I have had was with the way it was originally worded. I have never said one thing to disagree with the points being made in it. Feel free to check my post history for proof

 

You're criticizing the thread passively.

I intentionally posted in the same board that the petition was posted in. If it had been posted in the PvP forum, I would have posted this thread there as well.

 

It was there, you just didn't bother to check.

 

That is certainly possible. In fact, I would say it is equally as likely as people signing fake names with junk email addresses to a petition. I'm not saying anyone actually did that, only that it is just as likely as what you suggested

 

^ Thread should have been deleted because this poll can be rigged. Thus, there is no proper way to measure actual votes(Without the PvPers too).

 

I see. So you do not actually know whether all of the names on the petition are valid or not. Thanks for clarifying

 

That gave me a bad vibe.

[The_Grand_Nagus]

That gave me a bad vibe.

 

Now that was genuinely funny. Thanks for the laugh

[HoloTweed]

If you look at every comment I have made about the petition, the only complaint I have had was with the way it was originally worded. I have never said one thing to disagree with the points being made in it. Feel free to check my post history for proof

 

Well that's the real clincher in this multi-thread discussion (well - argument for him since he whips out the fallacies right and left to anyone who disagrees with his methods or purely made up statistics). If his points were presented rationally and calmly, he would probably find a lot more supporters.

 

Instead, he is DEMANDING that Bioware acknowledge him and his Evil League of Evil on a deadline he has created or else they will ALL unsub. It's the method that has earned him ill will (and his non-logical arguments and attacks to any who call him on it). For one, Bioware will NEVER EVER cave to such an ultimatum. No business would. Secondly, his ultimatum has no teeth. By his own admission, the clear majority of co-conspirators in his league are ALREADY unsubbed. So there is no economic harm to Bioware even if they fail to meet the ransom demands.

 

I'm left with the only logical conclusion - this is a hoax/grandstand move by a Super Troll. I mean, good for him (I guess) since he got so many people to respond, with the clear majority against his "petition" and the way he has presented his demands.

 

It was pretty obvious when he said that it's "easy to PvE" - the elitist attitude woven throughout his thread finally came under the spotlight with that claim.

 

So cheers to him. His petition has no other power than to incite people to respond so he can get angry with them. Self-fulfilling post that was mildly amusing for a bit.

[Lunafox]

I agree well enough with a fair bit of it, but seeing as it seems to be pvp-centric, and I don't pvp, well draw your own conclusion.

 

I am more concerned with extending individual class and companion stories, and the OP of the petition didn't feel comfortable 'demanding' that from the powers that be, because I guess they didn't feel it was 'gettable' or maybe would diminish the importance of what they want, and I don't see the importance of extending individual class or companion stories being added to his list of demands.

 

I'm a pve-er and tbh pvp needs aren't all that important to me. If they as pvpers were willing to support pve needs by adding the need for more individual class story to the list, then I'd be happy to support them in return.

[Bilirubin]

Dramas.

[GalacticKegger]

If you agree with what is on the petition, then it makes perfect sense to sign it. If you don't agree with what is on the petition, or don't think it accurately represents your opinions enough to warrant signing it, then don't sign it. Each has but one voice. So make sure the voice others hear is actually yours. Edited September 24, 2013 by GalacticKegger

[Kurin]

I'm sure the original poster has good intentions, but his poll is flawed as it doesn't describe what type of player the person signing the petition is.

 

A hardcore PVEr would likely NOT support the petition, as they want BW/EA to focus 100% of their efforts on PVE. Ummmm, is that really fair to people that actually care about and support the petition? I would say no.

 

A poll of end-game PVPers, people with toons that are in full Partisan gear would, however, be fair. It would express the opinion of those most clearly affected by the petition, and whether the petition truly speaks for end gamer pvpers or not. This is one reason why the facebook group has some merit by the petitioner. It (presumably) is comprised of this type of member, and thus it's collective vote bears serious consideration.

 

I'm not on the petitioner's server, and I don't consider myself a hardcore PVPer, so I would definitely say I'm abstaining. But for anyone that disagrees with the petitioner, I'd personally ignore their opinion, unless they were actually a hard core, end game PVPer.

[Kurin]

I do not like being spoken for at all.

 

The petitioner NEVER spoke for you, unless you signed the petition. That's what it means to sign a petition...that you agree. By NOT signing the petition, it neither means you agree, nor that you disagree...simply that you haven't signed. A petition, with no signatures means NO ONE is being spoken for.

 

Interesting that this concept is so poorly understood by forum trolls.

[mmjarec]

It has both pve and pvp problems adressed so i see the only reason to not agree with it as elitist snobbery. " oh its for pvp i dont pvp". I dot suppose you care about balance or ability lag then either. Nothing is perfect maybe he can reword it would it get get carebear support. Im sure if you are pure pve you dont understand the hostility cause they didnt shaft the pve community like they did pvp. I understand it perfectly sometimes its hard to not get emotional about it Edited September 24, 2013 by mmjarec
Sndj

[Celise]

i am guessing by strict interpretation as far as gamer rights goes between countries, they follow that and their own rules they set down, in otherwords any polls are invalid before they begin, doesnt matter if it is for yes or no. so i fail to see the reason in and around this topic.

 

i am also from sto as well, occasionally play it between months but thats it since lor.

my opinion on the pvp aspect? its dull and unimaginative, seriously lacking balance. that wont change and only occasionally i play pvp on tor mostly to fill in the lack of interest on grouping finding early in the level progression. if there was any other good way of bypassing this for quick and easy leveling without the pvp i would take it without thinking about it.

[Michalrajtar]

I am totally against it. I am against tone of this petition not changes. I am mainly PvEr but I take interest in PvP and play on PVP server. I want you to remember that Pvp changes have impact on PvE experience. One of biggest for me changes for PvP that had negative impact on PvE were changes of Force Wave and Project animations. Yeah it decreased my PvE experience on Sage cause new animations are awful and too fast. Old ones were perfect. This petition tone is wrong. Petitions should be way to communicate with devs not make demands with time limits and threats to unsub If they don't do what ppl want. Edited September 24, 2013 by Michalrajtar

[CrazyOldMystic]

First if this is really the real Grand nagus, who fought to improve sto over several threads, welcome to swtor. Secondly the main and fundamental problem with pvp is this, players seek to make their class op. Devs despite their hard work over nerf a class, and over buff a class. Example this coming patch they are nerfing the trooper gut ability again, but leaving the shanking operative fully intact. Like I tried to say in another thread, and was ignored. The only thing that will solve the pvp problem is eliminating crowd control, by crowd control I mean locking a player in place. The other problem I found in swtor/wow is unless you are a tank with a healer who has got your back you do not last long. My theory after pvping for years in wow, and for a long time in pvp. The answer to this is simply making armor more resistant to certain types of damage, depending on the armor.

 

People will continue to get upset in pvp, continue to post rage threads, and continue to rage quit so long as they can get locked into place by another class. Then have to watch their toon get killed without so much as being able to lift a finger to stop it. Increasing the ability of a class to be more resistant to damage is a good thing. Both ideas would have to be implemented, otherwise you would have serious balance issues arise.

[Michalrajtar]

First if this is really the real Grand nagus, who fought to improve sto over several threads, welcome to swtor. Secondly the main and fundamental problem with pvp is this, players seek to make their class op. Devs despite their hard work over nerf a class, and over buff a class. Example this coming patch they are nerfing the trooper gut ability again, but leaving the shanking operative fully intact. Like I tried to say in another thread, and was ignored. The only thing that will solve the pvp problem is eliminating crowd control, by crowd control I mean locking a player in place. The other problem I found in swtor/wow is unless you are a tank with a healer who has got your back you do not last long. My theory after pvping for years in wow, and for a long time in pvp. The answer to this is simply making armor more resistant to certain types of damage, depending on the armor.

 

People will continue to get upset in pvp, continue to post rage threads, and continue to rage quit so long as they can get locked into place by another class. Then have to watch their toon get killed without so much as being able to lift a finger to stop it. Increasing the ability of a class to be more resistant to damage is a good thing. Both ideas would have to be implemented, otherwise you would have serious balance issues arise.

 

a bit offtop. They're nerfing gut but improving overall damage and performance so Vanguard is getting buffed

[HoloTweed]

I am totally against it. I am against tone of this petition not changes. I am mainly PvEr but I take interest in PvP and play on PVP server. I want you to remember that Pvp changes have impact on PvE experience. One of biggest for me changes for PvP that had negative impact on PvE were changes of Force Wave and Project animations. Yeah it decreased my PvE experience on Sage cause new animations are awful and too fast. Old ones were perfect. This petition tone is wrong. Petitions should be way to communicate with devs not make demands with time limits and threats to unsub If they don't do what ppl want.

 

Some of the petition's points are quite valid. The presentation and ultimatum threat - not so much.

 

Ironic that the founders of that petition are trying to actively persuade people to NOT look at this thread and poll. Of course the real reason is that the results show that they don't have the support they want.

Edited September 24, 2013 by HoloTweed
typos

[branmakmuffin]

Hypothetically, although it is possible to quickly validate the list(BioWare could EASILY do it).

They're not going to. Why should they? It's not really a petition, just an opinion poll.

[Sir-Coffee]

They're not going to. Why should they? It's not really a petition, just an opinion poll.

 

I said hypothetically.... Control your anger please.

[branmakmuffin]

I said hypothetically.... Control your anger please.

That's like asking a snail to control it's ability to fly.

[HoloTweed]

That's like asking a snail to control it's ability to fly.

 

At this point, talking to him is like trying to herd cats. Anyone who disagrees with his stance and his petition is immediately labelled a troll or he repeats "Thank you for supporting my petition" even though the people he says that too clearly don't/

 

Shakespeare called that one centuries ago - Much Ado About Nothing. The petition will only succeed in generating a lot of forum hyperbole but the Devs are wisely not paying any attention to it - in the final analysis, their threat has no teeth because the majority of the people supporting the threat of "Do what we want when we say or we unsub!" have already unsubbed.

 

They've taken the attention away from the actual points of their petition and aren't helping their own cause. Bioware isn't going to be held hostage by a tiny group of people, the majority of which are already no longer contributing monetarily.

[Sir-Coffee]

At this point, talking to him is like trying to herd cats. Anyone who disagrees with his stance and his petition is immediately labelled a troll or he repeats "Thank you for supporting my petition" even though the people he says that too clearly don't/

 

Shakespeare called that one centuries ago - Much Ado About Nothing. The petition will only succeed in generating a lot of forum hyperbole but the Devs are wisely not paying any attention to it - in the final analysis, their threat has no teeth because the majority of the people supporting the threat of "Do what we want when we say or we unsub!" have already unsubbed.

 

They've taken the attention away from the actual points of their petition and aren't helping their own cause. Bioware isn't going to be held hostage by a tiny group of people, the majority of which are already no longer contributing monetarily.

 

Good theory, although many people who have disagreed with my petition, I haven't labeled trolls.

 

Your theory is wrong.

[TUXs]

The petition will only succeed in generating a lot of forum hyperbole but the Devs are wisely not paying any attention to it ...

 

Seems about right for the majority of forum feedback...the Devs don't pay it any attention.

[L-RANDLE]

The point of a petition is to create a unified document to show agreement that a particular subject needs to be addressed. So when you do sign it you are giving over your voice to the document to be unified. The document is speaking for everyone who signs it. Its not about who posted it, its about the issues contained within the doc..

 

If you don't agree, dont sign it. BW knows what its active population is. If you don't sign it, then its an autocrit "No". They can fully decipher how many players are in agreement and that something is very, very wrong when a boycott is called for.. There should be little to no opposition on the basis that it is asking for game improvement, and has gotten to the point that an entire server is threatening to pull subs. How can you say you are opposed to this and keep a straightface?

 

My gut tells me the people concerned with the counter protesting have little to no interest in PvP.