SWTOR Game Redux. Opinions?

[TUXs]

TUX, you're a reasonable person.

 

You DO understand that is never going to happen and it would be end the of this game right?

The game would be offline for at least a year and killing a profitable MMO (arguably 2nd or 3rd most popular in NA) would be a disastrous mistake.

 

I don't understand these armchair development threads. Does no one else on the forum understand basic business? (Yes, many of you posted you know its not going to happen.)

 

FFXIV was a completely different story. It was literally UNFINISHED when it was launched. I'm not saying unfinished like "omg its missing a designer kiosk". It was utterly unfinished. Entire portions of the game didn't work. No one knew what to do when they logged on. It was NOT DONE. SWTOR was a functional product when it launched even if the fan-haters don't want you to believe that.

 

Of course I understand basic business...I realize it would take a miracle for it to happen...I know it would cost millions! I know the return would blow for that...but I like this game and there's no doubt that the engine is its demise...the engine is the entire reason we're getting ****** with 4v4 arenas for PvP. The engine is why we can't have bigger PvP fights. The engine is why we have ability delay. The engine is a HUGE FREAKING MISTAKE!!!

 

I realize it's not going to happen...but this was a hypothetical thread, not something I feel Bioware will even bother to read, no less act upon. In MY prefect world, they'd have shut it down prior to launch and fixed their ****.

 

I've been here since early beta...I know what the game was like at launch. It was obvious then that there were problems...they should have delayed release to address them but they refused to believe the obvious. They were arrogant...but they made $ so it's all good for them now...I'm not interested in EA's bottom line...I am interested in this game

[captpickles]

Basically what I mean is, rebuilding the game from the ground up like Final Fantasy 14 did. To fix issues and flaws. Now before anyone comments I DO know that this would be a time consuming process and we would not be able to play for the lengthy time required. This is completely HYPOTHETICAL, so keep flaming on this to a minimum please.

 

The reason I am bringing this up is because SWTOR does have a lot of faults. Not game breaking faults for the most part, but somewhat crippling faults. Like glitches from the graphics to key gameplay.

 

For one. The choice of game engine used was a REALLY bad idea. Beta testing started in 2008 and the game released in December 20 2011. The engine used is the "HeroEngine". The reason why the choice of engine was a bad idea was because the engine's first reported STABLE release was December 5 2012. Which was almost a full year after the game's release in the US and EU. This would explain the countless bugs that were seen at launch and are still seen today. Like the infamous pink shirt glitch. I don't know if it was confusion, giving benefit of the doubt or just lazy shortcuts to save funding, but the choice of engine is one of the most commonly used explanation the developers have used to explain issues. I also know it was modified by programmers but it was still a incomplete engine.

 

Common issues that have been answered with this explanation are.

 

Chat Bubbles which is a thought of as one of the first things to be implemented in most MMOs. The link provided below shows the high demand for it and multiple work arounds suggested with Forum Admins and Developers responding with engine limitations.

 

Usable chairs. Now this is a really infamous issue because it was flat out lied about. The game has usable chairs in personal starships since launch, it can even be linked to travel. Sitting in the chair closest to the starmap brings up the travel menu. So it is indeed programmable with additional features. Yet I'd assume difficult.

 

Low limit of active quest. This is a minor issue, but it was still answered with engine limitations.

 

Cross Server PvP. I am not a big PvPer but I know others have complained about this. Other MMOs have been able to do this, but apparently the game engine forbids it.

 

There are many more issues that the developers have dismissed with it simply being engine limitations, but you'd think with how often they default back on this excuse, they'd realize it was a bad choice.

 

There were also many features not included in launch that in today's time have been seen as standard for every MMO and when they were added, they were bugged to all hell. Notable features such as.

 

Again, chat bubbles.

 

Group finder.

 

Non-manual gear set switching.

 

These have been thought of as norms with MMOs. MMOs like RIFT, Guild Wars 2 and Tera had these at launch. With World of Warcraft adding them overtime.

 

A big issue that I am not sure is a engine limitation or a personal design choice is phasing, which most other MMOs handle 10x better. I have personally looked into this and see no reason for the area lock outs in this game. The areas you are locked out of are still 100% rendered and there have been glitches where people were able to get inside a locked out area and move around inside flawlessly. The only reason I would see these as locked out is for the sake of quest NPCs and environment damage. Yet games such as World of Warcraft which is a much older game and Guild Wars 2 is able to handle phasing with minimal issues in areas that are far larger than the ones locked out in this game.

 

The areas are locked out for story purposes. Yet the game Guild Wars 2 does the exact same thing. Personal areas that allow isolation for story quest, though in that game they create temporary instances separated from other players not in your group. Again this could be up to engine limitations, but I fail to see how that's a reasonable excuse when they knowingly chose the engine.

 

In World of Warcraft almost entire regions are phased due to normal quest. Such changes include entirely different landscaping and NPC placement, removal, ect.

 

I could go on and on about simple faults and poor design choices, and even compare this game to Star Wars Galaxies which was a much older game.

 

Now I know a lot of you are probably preparing to tell me to shut up with comparing SWTOR to other MMOs or to go play those if I like them so much, but here's the thing, if you don't compare your product to other items that are similar, you are unable to make improvements to make sure your product is up to date let alone better. So comparing is truly the best way to figure out improvements.

 

As for why I don't go and play those other games. Some reasons have to do with personal opinions and experiences that I rather not explain, but I will inform you SWTOR is my MMO of choice when looking at the ones available, and I already have friends who play SWTOR.

 

In conclusion. If it could be done and not have us screwed over, would you be up for a game redux?

 

As for myself, I would be curious to see what would be done with a better game engine which even the developers seem to complain about as much if not more than players. Though I am hesitant because I suspect that a lot of our progress would be deleted and I would not be cool with that due to the amount of money I have spent on random pack rolls on the cartel market and the game itself.

 

Well, thoughts and opinions? I'd like to hear them.

 

I shall also be waiting for the many people who will be calling me whiner, using "Q.Q" to inhumane levels and I'm pretty sure there will be name calling and many censored words in comments, but responses like those tend to come hand in hand with post like these.

 

Related Links

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars:_The_Old_Republic#Development

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HeroEngine

 

(Chat Bubble Discussion) http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=41864

 

(Engine Limitation Dicussion) http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=538107

 

Edit 1

"Why does this game receive so much hate?"

A VERY good and not flame filled discussion involving faults, design mistakes and player/developer interactions along with clear explanations from players. It touches on subjects that would make this post to big if I added it or that are not directly related to the game engine.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=681352

 

Edit 2

A rather anger inducing comment made by the devs that I was lead to on the thread above. Do not read if you are easily angered.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-07-25-bioware-sw-tor-to-last-for-decades

 

Edit 3

If you see a bunch of post from me, I am just responding to comments that I feel that I can. I'd like to be part of this discussion.

 

Edit 4

I would like to make clear that I am not complaining over the lack of chat bubbles, chairs ect. I can live without both because they are not required to play. I am stating that the developers have said the reason we do not have these features is because the engine's limitations make it impossible or hard to do. The engine was not fully stabilized when they chose it. This is fact.

 

Honestly the thing that is a complaint is the phasing due to the area locked off being fully rendered.

 

Cannot EVER happen. the don't have the money.

[hadoken]

Unless FF14 blows up spectacularly and ends up being the bread winner for Square over all their other games, there's no way EA would even consider dumping that kind of money on this game. And rightly so. I'm obviously pretty unconvinced that idea is really a valid or effective business strategy.

[TUXs]

Unless FF14 blows up spectacularly and ends up being the bread winner for Square over all their other games, there's no way EA would even consider dumping that kind of money on this game. And rightly so. I'm obviously pretty unconvinced that idea is really a valid or effective business strategy.

 

Even then...the bigger problem is EA. SWTOR is peanuts to EA. FF14 DEFINES Square Enix...it IS their brand. SWTOR is just another minor title for EA.

[Andryah]

Cannot EVER happen. the don't have the money.

 

Oh.. they have the money. What they do not have is the time.

 

As to the OP reference to Square Enix move on FFXIV being a good move to try on this game. Um.. no. SE either did what they did.. or they bury their decade long franchise and it's installed customer base. SWTOR carries no such baggage and is free to continue to evolve and develop for as long as it wishes. It's a poor business comparison.

 

SWTOR has it's issues and challenges with the player base, but it's not completely broken and dysfunctional. If it was, they would just cut their losses and shut it down. There would be no redux because EAs entire business is not staked to any one game franchise. Besides, Bioware has established a track record of being able to address both key issues and key wishes of the player base....just not as fast as the rampant ADHD in the forum demands.

 

And there is a larger strategic consideration for EA. EA holds the licenses for Star Wars Gaming from Disney. They have every incentive to continue to invest in and improve SWTOR (to prove they can and will) and a redux effort (which effectively withdraws the IP from the players) is a stupid move to make in the context of their long term agreement with Disney.

 

As for:

Edit 2

A rather anger inducing comment made by the devs that I was lead to on the thread above. Do not read if you are easily angered.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...st-for-decades

 

Why on earth would that induce anger? First.. people cannot read and comprehend very well, nor embrace context. They said "hope it will" not "it will". They also said it pre-launch... and they were stating their desires and ambitions for the property. You guys need to chill. If you are going to get angry over everything a company says.. you should not consume the companies products IMO.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Andryah

[TriggerBlade]

If they were to take the game down to rebuild it, I know I wouldn't come back. I wouldn't be happy about losing all I've earned and bought, just so some people can enjoy chat bubbles and more chairs.

 

It's been shown that they can make chairs for us to sit on, and I'm quite satisfied with that, and see no reason, why they couldn't make more poses or styles of chairs.

 

I've played in games before, where they decide to do a wipe and revamp and I want no part of that.

 

I think it would be money better spent to get us extensions on individual class stories, or even just extensions on our companion stories, it would be nice to speak to them again, beyond 50, and have conversations with choices again with them.

 

I don't think it's all right to take an established game and turn it on it's head to make it better. You either made it as good and right as it can be, and expect a few tweaks over the years, or you don't bother to put it out.

 

No disrespect to your idea or thoughts OP, it's just not for me. I don't approve.

 

No feeling of disrespect received. I asked for your opinion and you gave it. Thank you for giving it.

[TriggerBlade]

I get it OP, I've seen too many threads just like this in too many games and if we could change something about the games we love then we would. This game works fine and too many people get caught up in wishing it was like those other chicken mount games and lose sight of how good of a game this is today. Generally speaking, all those who don't like a game the way it is needs to go build a better one, play something else, or just enjoy what we have cause I assure you, it's a great game.

 

Actually you don't get it, just like some other people I had to explain. This was a hypothetical question to see if you are for or against it. I at no point said that this was the plan we had to go for and I at no point said that we should go for it. It is all capitalized at the top of my post "HYPOTHETICAL". All I did was state fact, that the developers used an incomplete engine and that they say that is the reason for the problems. I am actually fine with how things are as well for the most part. Yet multiple people have responded to me like this is a petition. Which I in no way said it was. Though I shall take your response as a no. That you are not open to a redux.

[TriggerBlade]

I would love to see it happen. The games engine is 99% of the problems with this game...it needs to be replaced for this game to have long term viability imo.

 

Of course I understand basic business...I realize it would take a miracle for it to happen...I know it would cost millions! I know the return would blow for that...but I like this game and there's no doubt that the engine is its demise...the engine is the entire reason we're getting ****** with 4v4 arenas for PvP. The engine is why we can't have bigger PvP fights. The engine is why we have ability delay. The engine is a HUGE FREAKING MISTAKE!!!

 

I realize it's not going to happen...but this was a hypothetical thread, not something I feel Bioware will even bother to read, no less act upon. In MY prefect world, they'd have shut it down prior to launch and fixed their ****.

 

I've been here since early beta...I know what the game was like at launch. It was obvious then that there were problems...they should have delayed release to address them but they refused to believe the obvious. They were arrogant...but they made $ so it's all good for them now...I'm not interested in EA's bottom line...I am interested in this game

 

THANK YOU!!! See people? This guy gets it! "but this was a hypothetical thread". Thank you TUXS for paying attention before responding.

[Ottoattack]

The engine defiantly has its issues and limitations, of which some can be mitigated, but others can't. The problem is for better or worse, we are stuck with it. That also does not mean that it can't be improved, it can. Did not we just have an upgrade in the game visuals? We use more upgrades like this to tackle many of the in game issues. Also, in the last 1-2 month, I have been seeing much less bugs and issues. The real problem in my point of view for any on going game with sub is content.

 

For ver 3.0, if there is not enough new content added, the game will kind of die. You need new blood in the game right now. I think 3-4 planets, class individual stores and a new tree for each advanced class (total of 8 new trees), with renovation of the PvP system is minimum. If we get another Makeb kind of expansion, the game is bound to die due to the lack of content. Does it need to be costly? I would think the most players would rather pay $30-40 for a good chunk of content, instead of $10 to get one planet, with mediocre story line. WOW had large expansions, with new classes. If the EA is not willing to invest in a big expansion, the game will get old and eventually die.