Assassins and 4v4s

[Aragost]

A little eye opener for you: if you are AS good as Evolixe, Xinika and those 2-3 top universal 'sins then you will greatly enjoy it.

 

.

 

Would you kindly remove your head from their arses?

[JP_Legatus]

In PvP, nobody cares about the spec that reaches for the highest on the charts. Nobody cares about what does best in your mathematical equations.

 

What matters is that the target dies or that the objective is and stays under control. By whatever means necessary.

This instantly and completely shoots down your argument of how it is mathematically incorrect to play the Death Field hybrid. Because it isn't "DPS" I'm going for anyway.

 

At the same time, this "lost" single target pressure is actually really small. So small in fact that YOU had to unleash "mathematical" equations on it to see how small it even really is. While I gain an AoE attack every 12 seconds that can deal a total of more than 20k damage in a single GCD. Completely making up for that "lost" single target damage in an instant.

 

Not only does this create MORE pressure on the healer because all that damage has to be healed across various target.. it also comes INSTANTLY, which makes it more deadly than "sustained" damage that is done over a small period of time.

 

In reality, as a Sin, you have the highest single target burst in a small period of time. Meaning that you need to have full control of your enemies in order to get the most out of your class. Now this is something that goes beyond the capabilities of most players. Hence why it's mostly viewed as an imposseble class to play well in arena.

 

But that is nothing further from the truth. It just requires a LOT of work.. military precision and insane combat insight. And that, is why 99.9% of the players are incapable of making a Sin team successful.

 

TLDR; Marauders aren't "better" at anything we do. They are however "easier". But the playstyle is incomparible.

 

No.

The difference in damage is very significant. I've already outlined this in another thread. A significant portion of damage comes from surging charge in the new deception. In the past the difference was small, this is no longer the case. You are significantly lowering your damage by taking death field. The procs all work together to create damage for you.

 

And maras absolutely do better at everything, I've already showed you why right in the earlier post.

[Aragost]

No.

The difference in damage is very significant. I've already outlined this in another thread. A significant portion of damage comes from surging charge in the new deception. In the past the difference was small, this is no longer the case. You are significantly lowering your damage by taking death field. The procs all work together to create damage for you.

 

And maras absolutely do better at everything, I've already showed you why right in the earlier post.

 

Your post was so incredibly flawed I don't know where to begin, you seem to be under the impression that every player will just sit there and eat a full gore-ravage from you everytime its off cd? that noone is capable of countering a carnage maras burst?

 

Stop trying to compare them, they do very different things.

[gabrielluigi]

Just want to jump in here and let the OP know that playing an Assassin can be extremely fun. My first toon was an Infiltration Shadow ( Republic Mirror) and they are still competitive (although they do need some attention, it's not quite as bad as it seems). The burst spec doesn't fit most peoples play style (hence the hate) and the other spec is a little plain and doesn't really shine (I think they intended for this to be the spec for anyone who HAD to have a double-bladed lightsaber but lacked the skill to tank or master Infiltration -Darkness for 'sins?- )

 

just kidding! don't kill me!-

 

But seriously, you'll do fine as long as you take the time to learn you spec as you level up. Realize that it's not for everyone and there's no shame in that. But most of all ignore the people who hate the class or don't play it, they usually don't know better than those that are playing 'sins regularly. Listen to them, try to solo all you heroics (got spanked a lot but it taught me how to stealth and burst **** down real good)

Edited September 15, 2013 by gabrielluigi

[JP_Legatus]

Your post was so incredibly flawed I don't know where to begin, you seem to be under the impression that every player will just sit there and eat a full gore-ravage from you everytime its off cd? that noone is capable of countering a carnage maras burst?

 

Stop trying to compare them, they do very different things.

 

Every class can stop every other class from doing any action at any time, it's not only maras. I can stop another sin from exploding all his burst onto me same as I can stop a mara from ravaging.

I've been hearing this same ridiculous comment for months and it hasn't met the standard of common sense from the first time until now. Fail argument is fail.

It's like when all the people kept saying smash was bad because you just had to move out of the aoe but yet smash mara was a cornerstone of rated teams for months even after people learned how to counter it. Sorry, sometimes things don't work the way you plan them to, and when that happens carnage will kill you faster than rage or deception. It still won't matter because people are still going to use rage, so I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

 

You are exactly right that they do different things, maras do rated better and sins do fun better.

Edited September 15, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[Vaerah]

Would you kindly remove your head from their arses?

 

I have no issue admitting people I played with are better than me. Is it so hard on your ego?

[HBMalachorfive]

Every class can stop every other class from doing any action at any time, it's not only maras. I can stop another sin from exploding all his burst onto me same as I can stop a mara from ravaging.

I've been hearing this same ridiculous comment for months and it hasn't met the standard of common sense from the first time until now. Fail argument is fail.

It's like when all the people kept saying smash was bad because you just had to move out of the aoe but yet smash mara was a cornerstone of rated teams for months even after people learned how to counter it. Sorry, sometimes things don't work the way you plan them to, and when that happens carnage will kill you faster than rage or deception. It still won't matter because people are still going to use rage, so I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

 

You are exactly right that they do different things, maras do rated better and sins do fun better.

 

So A) Your going to argue with the class rep who was funnily enough chosen for a reason and is one of the best at playing their class

B) Comparing Carnage Mara's to Deception Sins is like saying 'Oh look you have a boat and I have a car'. They both get you from point at to point b but they way they do it is incomparable.

 

Carnage has a 4.5 sec window to do their damage with the Gore > Ravage > Scream combo or any other combo for that matter. This limits their ability to do as much successful single target damage because as soon as you interrupt Gore bye bye burst.

Sins on the other hand will wait out your 4s stun, mez, etc. because recklessness lasts through the stun and they'll just come straight back at you stabbing your sorry *** again. Spike > Maul cannot be avoided unless you are cc'd from another source. So pop recklessness after your stunned hello 6k+ Discharge into a 5k+ Shock and then with the hybrid boom death field crit. So by this stage your probably crying going 'ow my face' and if the RNG gods smiled upon your lowly sin they got a Duplicity proc so Maul again into assassinate. Dead.

Yes maul is a big part of our rotation but sins aren't a one trick pony while carnage mara's are

[bbalky]

Just want to jump in here and let the OP know that playing an Assassin can be extremely fun. My first toon was an Infiltration Shadow ( Republic Mirror) and they are still competitive (although they do need some attention, it's not quite as bad as it seems). The burst spec doesn't fit most peoples play style (hence the hate) and the other spec is a little plain and doesn't really shine (I think they intended for this to be the spec for anyone who HAD to have a double-bladed lightsaber but lacked the skill to tank or master Infiltration -Darkness for 'sins?- )

 

just kidding! don't kill me!-

 

But seriously, you'll do fine as long as you take the time to learn you spec as you level up. Realize that it's not for everyone and there's no shame in that. But most of all ignore the people who hate the class or don't play it, they usually don't know better than those that are playing 'sins regularly. Listen to them, try to solo all you heroics (got spanked a lot but it taught me how to stealth and burst **** down real good)

 

Thanks for your time dude. What spec do/ did you run?!

[Evolixe]

No.

The difference in damage is very significant. I've already outlined this in another thread. A significant portion of damage comes from surging charge in the new deception. In the past the difference was small, this is no longer the case. You are significantly lowering your damage by taking death field. The procs all work together to create damage for you.

 

And maras absolutely do better at everything, I've already showed you why right in the earlier post.

 

Howmany *********** times do I have to tell you that nobody in PvP cares about this "consistent" damage. It has no significance there. What you want is burst. Unless your class is capable of doing so much damage over a long period of time that the healer just can't take it anymore. But we can't. So that's not even part of the discussion here.

 

Mara's do different, not better. Stop talking nonsense and if you would actually be remotely good at sin you would understand my PoV.

[Aragost]

Nevermind, the guy obviously doesnt know how to play a deception sin, waste of time arguing with him. Edited September 15, 2013 by Aragost
meh

[Aragost]

I have no issue admitting people I played with are better than me. Is it so hard on your ego?

 

My ego has nothing to do with anything, I'm confident enough in my sin to not worry about someone saying other people are good, especially when I agree in most cases. But the constant hero worship and arse licking over certain people on the forums gets old quickly.

 

Are they good? Yes,

Better than most? indeed

The best in the universe in their own league so far removed from the rest of us, that no one else should even try to play arena? ****

[Ugasonofuga]

Howmany *********** times do I have to tell you that nobody in PvP cares about this "consistent" damage. It has no significance there. What you want is burst. Unless your class is capable of doing so much damage over a long period of time that the healer just can't take it anymore. But we can't. So that's not even part of the discussion here.

 

Mara's do different, not better. Stop talking nonsense and if you would actually be remotely good at sin you would understand my PoV.

/sign

[bbalky]

*gets popcorn out*

 

Think I'm going to stick with the sin. Try some play styles. Try and hush some haters in the process too.

[Tankqull]

Howmany *********** times do I have to tell you that nobody in PvP cares about this "consistent" damage. It has no significance there. What you want is burst. Unless your class is capable of doing so much damage over a long period of time that the healer just can't take it anymore. But we can't. So that's not even part of the discussion here.

 

Mara's do different, not better. Stop talking nonsense and if you would actually be remotely good at sin you would understand my PoV.

 

i´ve to disagree slightly with you, you can make every class look great (your sig-vid is proof of that either you would have not been able to do so good with a commando heal ) but achieving similar with another class with alot less effort does make that class supereor especially as a newby when you are learning in every match (hopefully).

the main advantage of sent/maro in terms of dmg is there reliable and controllable spike phases either due to gore or smash while assasin/shade spikes are completly reling on the RNG (beside every 30-75sec recklessness/force potency) in combination with the by far best defensive toolset not by much when played by good players but still slightly ahead and that gap increases even further the more "unskilled" the player is in favour of the maro/sent.

[JP_Legatus]

So A) Your going to argue with the class rep who was funnily enough chosen for a reason and is one of the best at playing their class

B) Comparing Carnage Mara's to Deception Sins is like saying 'Oh look you have a boat and I have a car'. They both get you from point at to point b but they way they do it is incomparable.

 

Carnage has a 4.5 sec window to do their damage with the Gore > Ravage > Scream combo or any other combo for that matter. This limits their ability to do as much successful single target damage because as soon as you interrupt Gore bye bye burst.

Sins on the other hand will wait out your 4s stun, mez, etc. because recklessness lasts through the stun and they'll just come straight back at you stabbing your sorry *** again. Spike > Maul cannot be avoided unless you are cc'd from another source. So pop recklessness after your stunned hello 6k+ Discharge into a 5k+ Shock and then with the hybrid boom death field crit. So by this stage your probably crying going 'ow my face' and if the RNG gods smiled upon your lowly sin they got a Duplicity proc so Maul again into assassinate. Dead.

Yes maul is a big part of our rotation but sins aren't a one trick pony while carnage mara's are

 

Look I'm sorry but you people are wrong. And I couldn't care less who won the popularity contest and became a rep at something, a popularity contest has little to do with who's actually qualified.

 

If you used recklessness discharge and shock AND got your maul proc AND got your maul to crit in the first 3 globals, you're at 20k damage.

If you opened with spike then use maul then got another maul proc, you're at 5 globals to do roughly 29k, again assuming both mauls crit AND you got your second maul proc in 5 globals and assuming he doesn't have a high armor value. At this point an assassinate will kill him, assuming the healer has been afk for 6 consecutive globals and with all those other assumptions. Reality is that it probably won't work that way anyhow.

 

Now at any point during this "burst" phase, getting range from the sin (or simply keeping him in front of you) WILL prevent maul.

Even if the damage is still coming later on, it's delayed long enough to ensure the healer has time to heal, and it's already been more than 6 globals to begin with.

 

Carnage maras can be interrupted same as sins, but their 30k+ damage happens in 3 globals and requires little setup. And it can and does frequently kill the target from full in 3 globals. Full to dead, regardless of whether he's got 10k armor or 0 armor. And unlike the sin, this is available every 30s regardless of whether he was able to get into or out of stealth (IE, the frequency isn't reliant on bad opponents letting you out of combat).

Edited September 15, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[JP_Legatus]

Howmany *********** times do I have to tell you that nobody in PvP cares about this "consistent" damage. It has no significance there. What you want is burst. Unless your class is capable of doing so much damage over a long period of time that the healer just can't take it anymore. But we can't. So that's not even part of the discussion here.

 

Mara's do different, not better. Stop talking nonsense and if you would actually be remotely good at sin you would understand my PoV.

 

Nobody's talking about consistent damage, this directly involves your burst. I'm talking about your shocks critting a surging charge proc for 2500 internal damage in the "correct" spec while you spend an extra global firing off a 4.5k death field crit (cuz you know, you have no DF bonuses). Since you didn't even get a surging charge hit, I only have to do 2000 damage in that global to be beating your "burst", and we're not even talking about the extra stack of static charge which allows you to fire off a discharge earlier.

And acting like your opener is the only time you'll be fighting is frankly just not going to cut it in the real world. After the opener ends you begin to fall so far behind in damage with death field that you might as well just let an operative sit in for you because your damage and/or burst is going to be that bad.

 

I'm sorry that you think death field is the way to go for deception but it mathematically isn't, regardless of whether you're talking burst or sustained dps. There is no instance of arena play where death field will be superior to full deception in damage.

 

When you're talking about sin vs mara, death in 3 globals or death in 6-7 or maybe even 8 globals is a pretty significant difference my friend. And again, I'm talking about the "bad" mara spec vs the good sin spec.

 

And yes, I do know how to play my sin. I haven't even played this game really in weeks and I'm still up there on all the boards. Maybe you should brush up on your sin play. http://www.torbattles.net/profile/profile.php?&user=Plaje&toon=Plaje&server=The+Bastion&type=Tank

Edited September 15, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[Evolixe]

mathematically

 

/Face *********** palm.

 

You still don't get it do you? There is more to PvP than just getting the most out of your damage.

But clearly you either can't or just don't want to understand that.

 

DF does just as much overall damage because that death field crit in the middle of the team can not only account for all the damage lost by the non-proccing surging charges and discharges.. It comes instantly as a great burst move, forcing out tremendous pressure.

 

I seriously don't give a flying **** about your PvE parses/PvP scoreboard records. Nobody does.

Hell when I make a record I don't even upload it because thats how much I care.

They don't prove anything and they don't mean anything. PvP is so much more than medals damage or protection.

 

You clearly don't have much experience. I suggest that you learn the ways of PvP, and then come back to me.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Evolixe

[Aragost]

 

And yes, I do know how to play my sin. I haven't even played this game really in weeks and I'm still up there on all the boards. Maybe you should brush up on your sin play. http://www.torbattles.net/profile/profile.php?&user=Plaje&toon=Plaje&server=The+Bastion&type=Tank

 

 

The records on that site are utter *****, pretty much everyone has been beaten by almost half again on tofn records, not that it matters.

 

You clearly dont know how deception sins play in a warzone, and you want to show how good you are by... putting a screenshot of you doing damage as madness? lol...

 

 

Also, the pic that is linked through that link shows you to be a clicker. you have no valid opinion.

[JP_Legatus]

/Face *********** palm.

 

You still don't get it do you? There is more to PvP than just getting the most out of your damage.

But clearly you either can't or just don't want to understand that.

 

DF does just as much overall damage because that death field crit in the middle of the team can not only account for all the damage lost by the non-proccing surging charges and discharges.. It comes instantly as a great burst move, forcing out tremendous pressure.

 

I seriously don't give a flying **** about your PvE parses/PvP scoreboard records. Nobody does.

Hell when I make a record I don't even upload it because thats how much I care.

They don't prove anything and they don't mean anything. PvP is so much more than medals damage or protection.

 

You clearly don't have much experience. I suggest that you learn the ways of PvP, and then come back to me.

 

You're right dude, pvp isn't about numbers. That's why you want to damage 4 different targets who are all probably at full health, 3 people who aren't the guy you're trying to kill with death field, with an ability balanced around hitting 5 people while losing damage on the real target. You're giving up more frequent discharges and up to 2.5k damage added onto your shocks which occur roughly every 4 globals to do 4.5k "aoe" "pressure" and tout it as somehow being a bonus while condemning tab-dotting (which I don't even do) in the same post. I'm honestly not even sure how you looked at that link and came out of it with tab-dotting. Obviously I got 1.7m protection by tab dotting.

Do you even think about what you're saying?

 

In arenas you are there as dps for one reason: to kill enemies. There is no node to guard, no huttball to carry, no caps to interrupt and nothing to capture yourself. You're there to kill someone, and when you lower your damage on your target to MAYBE hit 3 other randoms with MAYBE 4.5k damage, well I don't what can be done for you since you clearly are off in lala land somewhere and not living in reality where you are being brought to the team to kill a key target before you die.

 

THEN you're going to start talking about my experience, a guy who has been playing deception primarily since release while also having 5 other 55's with multiple other records between the 6 classes and tell me I don't have experience. You might be the most ignorant guy I've ever encountered on these forums.

Edited September 16, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[JP_Legatus]

The records on that site are utter *****, pretty much everyone has been beaten by almost half again on tofn records, not that it matters.

 

You clearly dont know how deception sins play in a warzone, and you want to show how good you are by... putting a screenshot of you doing damage as madness? lol...

 

 

Also, the pic that is linked through that link shows you to be a clicker. you have no valid opinion.

 

I've got twitch video of my play linked right in my sig Einstein. I don't claim to be the assassin god even if the numbers supported it, but I sure as hell don't click ROFL.

 

If you can't even write without making a fool of yourself you probably shouldn't be here.

Edited September 16, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[Aragost]

Watching your stream looks like far too much effort, the pictures show most of your important skills unbound, and you're making it obvious you dont know how assasin should be played from what you're saying.

 

No reason to get into a drawn out argument with you, just keep telling yourself you're good, it wont help.

[JP_Legatus]

Watching your stream looks like far too much effort, the pictures show most of your important skills unbound, and you're making it obvious you dont know how assasin should be played from what you're saying.

 

No reason to get into a drawn out argument with you, just keep telling yourself you're good, it wont help.

 

Uhh yeah, what skill do I not have bound again?

It's pretty clear you didn't watch it at all, and the drawn out argument would only put you deeper into the hole you cluelessly dug for yourself. Let me know when you've got something that you didn't completely fabricate to contribute to this discussion. Also, next time I recommend you keep quiet when you don't know what you're talking about. You've embarrassed yourself like 5 times in 3 posts.

Edited September 16, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[ErikGW]

I play mara (all 3 builds) and sin (the 2 viable builds lol).

 

To say either is more viable than the other is just ignorant really.

 

A mara is more of consistent sustainable damage with a few burst options. A sin is more burst damage with a few sustainable options.

 

Mara is an ezmode dull class. Completely unchallenging leap > gore > massacre/scream/throw. You basically just follow what your procs do for you. You have less ways to cripple an enemy (healer) to set up the kill. You get an aoe daze and a channeled stun.

 

As a sin, you have more control over when your burst happens because you have the low cut > maul, recklessness, assassinate. Low cut can also be an interrupt, and you have a knockback. Your stun is not channeled and increases incoming damage.

 

To win as an assassin requires a thorough understanding of what you can trigger intentionally. To win as a marauder you could pretty much mash 4 buttons and hit two others when they happen to light up.

 

As to which is better in pvp, that's about the player. People say assassin isnt sustainable and Its not compared to mara. It has a huge burst every minute or so, mara is every 20 seconds a lesser burst.