Wait a minute, faithful subscribers get a useless title we won't ever display..but

[carlbaratta]

I got no proof of course but I think recently released games have pulled off SWTOR subscribers, especially gamers that were on the fence about continuing SW due to lack of content.

 

In-game I've seen the opposite lately on Harbinger. Just joined a new guild that's 400+ members and keeps growing with new subs. I know because last night I was answering noob questions for over an hour with a huge pile of folks

[MillionsKNives]

I got no proof of course but I think recently released games have pulled off SWTOR subscribers, especially gamers that were on the fence about continuing SW due to lack of content.

 

I've got no proof of course but I think recently the tooth fairy has been coming in the night and killing SWTOR subscribers, especially those who make unfounded claims on the official forums.

[Andryah]

I've got no proof of course but I think recently the tooth fairy has been coming in the night and killing SWTOR subscribers, especially those who make unfounded claims on the official forums.

 

Hehe..... Definitely LOL worthy there MillionsKNives.

[islander]

In-game I've seen the opposite lately on Harbinger. Just joined a new guild that's 400+ members and keeps growing with new subs. I know because last night I was answering noob questions for over an hour with a huge pile of folks

 

I can only speak for POT5, a "PvP" server, but it's population level has gone down the toilet the past six weeks.

 

I certainly can't speak for other servers, especially carebear ones. Although let's be honest - if the game were healthy, or even growing, this wouldn't be happening. You can - of course- make a situational argument that "your server" is growing in population (and it could be) but overall? The game's in the tank again.

 

They've already blew their F2P wad...they are already talking about making normal warzones unlimited for F2P as well...again, another drastic step to stem the tide of unsubs...it is what it is. I wish it wasn't this way. I'm basically MMOless now. FFXIV is OK, Tera is OK, but nothing is actually fun compared to when THIS mmo was much less terrible.

Edited September 13, 2013 by islander

[TheLexinator]

Wait...what? And you think that butt hurt load of poison from that poster makes him cool?

 

I truly feel sorry for you

 

Newsflash....if BW told me 6 months ago, pay £5 now for Makeb or wait till September and have it for free....guess what? I would STILL have paid for it back then. For £5 Makeb represents excellent value imo and I have certainly had my money's worth.

 

The guy you quoted is probably one of those planks from 4chan who still thinks its hip to hate on every little thing and sling mindless hyperbole around the internet because it makes him feel e-tuff!! 2009 wants it's hipster hate trend back btw

 

Driz

 

Thank you for feeling sorry for me. It's appreciated.

 

I value your opinion, and you should value mine. If Bioware told me that I would get the expansion for free in a few months, I would have waited. I am guessing others would have as well. It's not like there is a lack of great F2P MMO's out there to occupy my time. LotRO is a prime example of F2P done right, combined with great gameplay/story.

 

I also don't appreciate being told that F2Pers are "appreciated" more than someone that has the CE and has been playing this game (paying for it) for a while.

Edited September 14, 2013 by TheLexinator

[LordArtemis]

I've got no proof of course but I think recently the tooth fairy has been coming in the night and killing SWTOR subscribers, especially those who make unfounded claims on the official forums.

 

I've got no proof of course but I think recently you received the award for the best reply in this thread.

 

...and there was much rejoicing

[LordArtemis]

I certainly can't speak for other servers, especially carebear ones.

 

You mean all the PVP servers?

[DrakeIsGod]

Why don't I have my title yet? When are we supposed to get it. If I'm getting nothing else, I at least want my 10 dollar title

[fire-breath]

Newcommers get an additoinal 1050 Cartel Coins? That's BS! I want the 1050 Cartel Coins, the h*ll with the useless title no one cares about. ***STEAMING***

 

Ask yourself the following question:

 

If you knew RotHC would be free 5 months after the release, would you still have bought it at release?

 

Set aside emotional responses, I think most people, at least the ones who take endgame PvE and PvP seriously, would still put down the 10 USD / 8 EUR.

If I could choose between paying 8 euro and play 55 content or waiting 5 months and get it for free I still would pay the 8 euro.

 

The reason why some people are getting coins is because they don't want to ripoff people who bought it 1 month ago and could only enjoy 55 content for that time. They need to draw a line at some place and they choose 1 month.

[Jeweledleah]

something that has just occurred to me.

 

this cartel coin grant, its essentially a store credit for recent purchasers, right? because they are legally obligated to do something about it.

 

but its only given to subscribers.

 

what about... people who are not subscribers but may have purchased expansion in the last 30 days, prior to announcement? not only would they have paid twice as much, but they also get no refund at all..

 

how does that work in terms of legality?

[Jeweledleah]

bringing this back up, because I'm genuinely curious about situation described above.

 

it is entirely plausible that someone playing as preferred (or even f2p, choosing it as their method to go preferred) - bought expansion, for $20 right before or inside that 30 day window... (thinking its cheaper then $25 they would have paid for getting subscription and buying it for $10, understandably) but they are getting nothing, because they are not subscribers

 

so is this still a glorified "store credit" masquerading as a reward, or poorly thought out reward, or what? talk to me, people, explain it away!

Edited September 14, 2013 by Jeweledleah

[Eillack]

I'm lovin' how BW is hiding in the PTS forums and pretending to fix bugs that people are posting.

[DmdShiva]

Why is it "failed"?

When is it hinted that a specific movie will be available for free in the near future? TV stations don't normally announce that X movie will be broadcasted 8 months after its theatrical release, either.

 

There are very few TV stations that show the movie without interrupting it every twelve minutes for three minutes of advertising, too, so even if you have a huge TV to get a 'theatre' experience, it's not the same as being able to watch it straight through without interruptions.

[Thylbanus]

OMG! You mean that I'm only going to get $1000 for my 2002 Ford F-150 trade in and the guy who bought his last year is going to get $10,000?! Mine should be more!

[Jeweledleah]

OMG! You mean that I'm only going to get $1000 for my 2002 Ford F-150 trade in and the guy who bought his last year is going to get $10,000?! Mine should be more!

 

except this is more like you and that other guy bought the same exact car, not a different year's model, not to mention unlike cars, software doesn't degrade with use.

 

either way... people have yet to answer my question. what about non subscribers that bought expansion after cutoff date for twice the price, yet aren't getting cartel coins? if this IS in fact a refund (or rather store credit), then how come these people are not getting it? as far as I know, legally - they are entitled to a full refund. and not a sale price either, whatever they themselves paid.

 

and if its not in fact a refund but rather a subscriber appreciation, then how come those who have been supporting the game for less time get appreciated more than those who have been early adopters?

 

so which is it?

[Andryah]

either way... people have yet to answer my question. what about non subscribers that bought expansion after cutoff date for twice the price, yet aren't getting cartel coins? if this IS in fact a refund (or rather store credit), then how come these people are not getting it? as far as I know, legally - they are entitled to a full refund. and not a sale price either, whatever they themselves paid.

 

and if its not in fact a refund but rather a subscriber appreciation, then how come those who have been supporting the game for less time get appreciated more than those who have been early adopters?

 

so which is it?

 

This has all been asked and answered multiple times in the forum this week.

 

It is not a refund.. it is an incentive to not ask for a refund. Understand the difference? If not.. then take your time.. re-read it until you do understand the difference.

 

As for nonsubs who pay twice as much and do not get the incentive.. tough cookie crumble.. subscribers are given preferential treatment.

 

It's also in compliance with reasonable and customary goodwill in the market for similar products.. and by following reasonable and customary (or better) they inoculate themselves for any valid consumer claim of harm. Which leaves us with the usual invalid consumer claims of harm in a gaming forum.

 

As to the matter of players who have been playing the expac longer and think they deserve incentives to not refund as well.. guess... what.. you are well outside the reasonable and customary practice in the market place. And if you want to spin is as an appreciation demand.. appreciation awards for subscribers is a completely separate discussion from the nonsense in this thread.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Andryah

[Jeweledleah]

This has all been asked and answered multiple times in the forum this week.

 

It is not a refund.. it is an incentive to not ask for a refund. Understand the difference? If not.. then take your time.. re-read it until you do understand the difference.

 

It's also in compliance with reasonable and customary in the market for similar products.. and by following reasonable and customary (or better) they inoculate themselves for any valid consumer claim of harm.

 

first time I'm seeing this explanation, wasn't anywhere in this thread at least and the few others I skimmed through

 

sounds pretty fishy to me regardless.

 

or in other words. bioware really didn't think that one through. like.. at all.

 

P.S. I'm not calling it a refund, I'm calling it a "store credit"

Edited September 14, 2013 by Jeweledleah

[Thylbanus]

except this is more like you and that other guy bought the same exact car, not a different year's model, not to mention unlike cars, software doesn't degrade with use.

Except it is a factor of use. You got to use it for a long time, now it's a used product. As you point out, it's a program, it's not gold or ocean side real estate. When you cancel your ISP, are you going to demand a credit for all the time you used their service?

either way... people have yet to answer my question. what about non subscribers that bought expansion after cutoff date for twice the price, yet aren't getting cartel coins? if this IS in fact a refund (or rather store credit), then how come these people are not getting it? as far as I know, legally - they are entitled to a full refund. and not a sale price either, whatever they themselves paid.

Well then you are still getting what you paid for as you would not have it anyway, since you are not a subscriber. If you subscribed after purchasing RotHC, that's your bad.

and if its not in fact a refund but rather a subscriber appreciation, then how come those who have been supporting the game for less time get appreciated more than those who have been early adopters?

so which is it?

Because the plan was put in place and they didn't get to enjoy the content for as long as you did.

 

It's funny that people, both within and without, don't understand that MMOs are a service. The service is entertainment. Just like an actor, singer, or sports figure. Do your DVDs and BluRays appreciate? I bought "Alexander" right when it came out. Paid $20. Now it's in the $5 bin. Brand new! It is basically data, it doesn't degrade. Yet it costs less than it did.

 

When you figure out why that happens, you will be much happier.

[Jeweledleah]

Thy, you are trying to compare apples and oranges.

 

still.

 

but that's ok. you are happy with how bioware is handling things - more power to you.

 

I'm not incidentally looking for a refund myself. would I like some cartel coin incentive? sure, wouldn't you? but I'm not demanding one. even if I will probably wait to buy next expansion. seems like pre-order items are not really worth it as they have in game alternatives (and it might not be the same exact titles, but hell.. I don't use 90% of the titles I have anyways) as for ops? /shrug I'll get to them when I'll get to them.

 

I'm merely pointing out how bad the whole thing is looking for bioware (and no, purchasers didn't get their money's worth because they could have just waited and subscribed for a month, so at the very least - they should be getting $5 in cartel coins as a difference and incentive).

 

P.S. I tend to wait for games to go on sale. dvd's too. but unlike what bioware did - there's precedent and warning for games and dvd's to go on sale at a certain rate. how quickly and with how little warning bioware did it when it comes to Hutt cartel? was 1. unexpected 2. set a new precedent

Edited September 14, 2013 by Jeweledleah

[Thylbanus]

Thy, you are trying to compare apples and oranges.

 

still.

 

but that's ok. you are happy with how bioware is handling things - more power to you.

 

I'm not incidentally looking for a refund myself. would I like some cartel coin incentive? sure, wouldn't you?

No. I understand that I got what I paid for. I don't and shouldn't get something back for a service I paid for. It's that simple.

but I'm not demanding one.

Then why are you going on about it?

even if I will probably wait to buy next expansion. seems like pre-order items are not really worth it as they have in game alternatives (and it might not be the same exact titles, but hell.. I don't use 90% of the titles I have anyways) as for ops? /shrug I'll get to them when I'll get to them.

 

I'm merely pointing out how bad the whole thing is looking for bioware (and no, purchasers didn't get their money's worth because they could have just waited and subscribed for a month, so at the very least - they should be getting $5 in cartel coins as a difference and incentive).

Except that they purchased it in good faith that it wouldn't be free in the next month. They didn't get to enjoy it for five months like the rest of us did.

[Andryah]

first time I'm seeing this explanation, wasn't anywhere in this thread at least and the few others I skimmed through

 

sounds pretty fishy to me regardless.

 

or in other words. bioware really didn't think that one through. like.. at all.

 

P.S. I'm not calling it a refund, I'm calling it a "store credit"

 

sounds fishy =/= fishy. You just don't like it.

 

The opposite is true.. they actually thought this one through pretty well. Again, you just don't like it is all.

 

You can call it Fredrick J. Ziffle for all I care. All that matters is it's function.. not what it is actually called. It's an incentive to players to not request a refund. I'm sure some players will reject it and ask for one anyway... which is their choice. Whether they get it or not. different discussion entirely. Most software is non-refundable once opened.. and when you load the expac and then log in.. you opened it.

[Jeweledleah]

No. I understand that I got what I paid for. I don't and shouldn't get something back for a service I paid for. It's that simple.

Then why are you going on about it?

 

Except that they purchased it in good faith that it wouldn't be free in the next month. They didn't get to enjoy it for five months like the rest of us did.

 

not everyone got to enjoy it for 5 months. some bought it JUST before cutoff date.

 

moreover - people who are not subscribers ALSO purchased it in good faith that it wouldn't be free/cheaper next month. how come they don't get an incentive?

last but not least - calling it subscriber appreciation? while excluding subscribers? who the hell does their PR, Heimlich? (sorry, I was rewatching Hunger games, so that seemed appropriate)

 

see, thing is, usually bioware gives a warning in advance, when changes like this are happening. in advance.

 

except with dyes in cartel market, when they forgot. and expansion that they gave people 4 day's warning about. and refer a friend program that is completely broken right now, but are they telling people to wait to use it before they fix it? nope.

 

THAT's why I'm going on about it. because maybe just maybe they look at it and next time? PLAN better. and if they don't? then we just have to keep telling them that they have done wrong.

 

edited to add

 

@ Adryah - there's very little they can do it seems that you don't like, oh the stanch defender of Bioware. but the fact that that doesn't bother you and you keep finding excuses for their action? doesn't make those actions thought out. the very fact that YOU have to keep inventing those excuses? shows that no, they didn't quite think it through. otherwise, there would be no need for them.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Jeweledleah

[Thylbanus]

not everyone got to enjoy it for 5 months. some bought it JUST before cutoff date.

Well that is what BioWare believes the service is worth then. It had to have a cutoff date.

 

moreover - people who are not subscribers ALSO purchased it in good faith that it wouldn't be free/cheaper next month. how come they don't get an incentive?

Because they have something for it. Access. If they are not subscribers, they wouldn't have access.

last but not least - calling it subscriber appreciation? while excluding subscribers? who the hell does their PR, Heimlich? (sorry, I was rewatching Hunger games, so that seemed appropriate)

I can tell. It's part of why you don't understand that you got what you paid for. How much does it cost to get the Burning Crusade or Wrath of the Lich King expansion in WoW? Oh, really? It's free? Huh.

see, thing is, usually bioware gives a warning in advance, when changes like this are happening. in advance.

So this happened already? I didn't notice. My guildmate must be lying to me then, he said he was going to wait for the RotHC to go free before he could join my new 50. I should boot him.

except with dyes in cartel market, when they forgot. and expansion that they gave people 4 day's warning about. and refer a friend program that is completely broken right now, but are they telling people to wait to use it before they fix it? nope.

Classic! Change the subject when you are losing. Always good form.

THAT's why I'm going on about it. because maybe just maybe they look at it and next time? PLAN better. and if they don't? then we just have to keep telling them that they have done wrong.

 

edited to add

 

@ Adryah - there's very little they can do it seems that you don't like, oh the stanch defender of Bioware. but the fact that that doesn't bother you and you keep finding excuses for their action? doesn't make those actions thought out. the very fact that YOU have to keep inventing those excuses? shows that no, they didn't quite think it through. otherwise, there would be no need for them.

And this IS classic. You are just flailing now. Attack people personally when you can't substantiate your position.

[Jeweledleah]

Well that is what BioWare believes the service is worth then. It had to have a cutoff date.

 

Because they have something for it. Access. If they are not subscribers, they wouldn't have access.

 

I can tell. It's part of why you don't understand that you got what you paid for. How much does it cost to get the Burning Crusade or Wrath of the Lich King expansion in WoW? Oh, really? It's free? Huh.

 

So this happened already? I didn't notice. My guildmate must be lying to me then, he said he was going to wait for the RotHC to go free before he could join my new 50. I should boot him.

 

Classic! Change the subject when you are losing. Always good form.

 

And this IS classic. You are just flailing now. Attack people personally when you can't substantiate your position.

 

1. burning crusade didn't go free until release of Cataclysm. 4 years. wrath didn't go free, until pandaria. 4 years. they would go on occasional holiday sales, but that's about it. do you see the precedent? it goes free, once new content is released. not before.

 

2. i didn't change the subject I brought in MORE examples of Bioware mishandling situation recently and not being transparent and/or prompt.

 

3. I'm not attacking her. I'm not calling her names. she defends bioware's decisions 99.9% of the time. its a fact. she comes up with excuses for their actions. its a fact. I know nothing of her as a person, all I know is what she does on the forums. its not attacking the person. I'm sorry you cannot see the distinction.

 

4. they overpaid for access because bioware neglected to give a fair prompt warning, unlike the way they used to before.

 

5. you guildmate is lying to you. if he's a subscriber, he should have had Hutt cartel since 2 days ago, as it went free on september 12.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Jeweledleah

[Andryah]

@ Adryah - there's very little they can do it seems that you don't like, oh the stanch defender of Bioware. but the fact that that doesn't bother you and you keep finding excuses for their action? doesn't make those actions thought out. the very fact that YOU have to keep inventing those excuses? shows that no, they didn't quite think it through. otherwise, there would be no need for them.

 

LOL.. right.

 

I'm quite critical about a number of things the devs have done, and they way they approach some things. This is not one of them.. no matter how much you want it to be. I have made no excuses here, only pointed out objective facts with regard to how a company typically does business in the real world. You don't like it when people do not agree with you on a crusade against the company. That's fine.. have at it.. but don't expect to get a free pass on statements that are ill informed and biased to your own personal dislike.

Edited September 14, 2013 by Andryah