20 bucks for a one use dye, REALLY?

[Brewski]

Would you mind answering these simple questions?

 

1. Do you think $20 for a single use dye is over priced?

 

2. Do you okay Bioware putting a 2000cc price tag on a single use dye?

 

Please refrain from using phrases such as "dont like it, dont play it" "it's optional" "no ones forcing you to buy it" etc... I'd just like to hear your own opinion on the price

 

Not directed at me, but I felt the need to answer anyway.

 

1) No, although it's more than I would pay. (But then I would not pay $5 either. Maybe not even $1.)

 

2) Yes, I think it's just fine.

 

Those who want it bad enough will buy it. Those who think it's over priced will not. At some point down the line people will stop buying it, and they will drop the price or provide an alternate way to get it. In the mean time, this cosmetic item will help fund the game I enjoy playing.

 

I am fine with cosmetic items being available in the game. I have more issues with items that affect play. The +41 crystals at level 10, for example, or to a lesser extent the space mission equipment. Those have neared (or maybe slightly crossed over) a line I prefer the game not go down. I understood the people who complained about those items more. This I just don't get, to be honest.

 

Dyes, cosmetic gear, convenience items and so on they can sell as much as they want, for whatever price people are willing to pay, and I'm perfectly content with it.

[Kurgun]

I don't find this to be a satisfactory answer. You seem to be saying "because it is". Is that really the reason? It's rare because it's rare because it's always been rare?

 

Also, just because I don't understand why something aesthetic need be rare, doesn't mean I'm a moron. You don't need to talk down to me like I'm a five year old.

 

You'll probably just get another smart *** condescending answer, it's the standard reply.

[ScarletBlaze]

Even though I disagree with the prices Bioware/EA has set on these two particular dyes people have asked for some dyes to be purchased through the cartel market. They gave them that option and I have read some posts that they didn't care about the price so I am guessing that is why they set the price so high.

 

The only way to show bioware the price is wrong is not to purchase it from the cartel market and they may see they need to adjust the price and hopefully add other ones that are in a better price range.

 

If I wanted a black/black or white/white I would wait till the GTN prices reflect a price I am willing to pay.

 

As someone once told me be careful how you word something, someone is going to take your word for what you said and you will have to deal with the outcome of what you said.

Edited September 6, 2013 by ScarletBlaze

[Andryah]

As stated before, your argument is just pure rubbish. You are trying to equate real life money to the economy in the game. It does not work. Bioware created artificial comparison and you are going right along with it and trying to convince everyone that your opinion on it is correct.

 

You are trying in vane to make Price = Value. They are separate and always will be in MMOs. They are relative to the views of the buyer. No matter how temperamental you get over it. There is no player consensus on what is a fair price (there is even a thread trying to get to the answer.. and it can't).

 

The only people that will pay the price of anything (real or virtual) are people who see value for what they spend. You don't.. that's fine.

 

This change drops the cost to acquire significantly from before it was put in. You just don't think it is cheap enough, which is fine. It will never be cheap enough for your personal value proposition. So.. you do without.. by your choice.

 

As for dyes being reusable or not.. totally separate discussion topic. NO dyes are part of Collections at this time. I think later on they may put a GUI similar to Collections for dyes (similar to what GW2 does) but only time will tell on that. Until then.. dyes are single use... suck it up.. or don's use them.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Andryah

[Andryah]

Even though I disagree with the prices Bioware/EA has set on these two particular dyes people have asked for some dyes to be purchased through the cartel market. They gave them that option and I have read some posts that they didn't care about the price so I am guessing that is why they set the price so high.

 

The only way to show bioware the price is wrong is not to purchase it from the cartel market and they may see they need to adjust the price and hopefully add other ones that are in a better price range.

 

If I wanted a black/black or white/white I would wait till the GTN prices reflect a price I am willing to pay.

 

As someone once told me be careful how you word something, someone is going to take your word for what you said and you will have to deal with the outcome of what you said.

 

Exactly.

[Andryah]

You'll probably just get another smart *** condescending answer, it's the standard reply.

 

Irony.

[Kurgun]

As I said.. many MMO players want and expect rare and difficult to acquire.

 

Or have you been ignoring all the complaints about this MMO that things are too easy to get these days.. especially with the CM in place?

 

Believe it or not.. there ARE players that want the B/B and W/W dyes to be behind end game ops bosses as rare drops that can be bragged about having.. or sold for 10M credits on the GTN. It's a "old school" belief system which is still quite popular inside MMOs.

 

I get it, you're one of those players that demands certain things be practically unobtainable to those who do not put in the "hard work" you and other like minded gaming elitist think you alone are entitled to. You are the type that can not stand to see casual players obtaining the best gear because their lives don't revolve around eight hours plus of gaming per day. You all just can not stand to see others acquire something if you come to the conclusion they did not do enough "hard work" as you THINK you did.

[Ayelinna]

Even though I disagree with the prices Bioware/EA has set on these two particular dyes people have asked for some dyes to be purchased through the cartel market. They gave them that option and I have read some posts that they didn't care about the price so I am guessing that is why they set the price so high.

 

The only way to show bioware the price is wrong is not to purchase it from the cartel market and they may see they need to adjust the price and hopefully add other ones that are in a better price range.

 

If I wanted a black/black or white/white I would wait till the GTN prices reflect a price I am willing to pay.

 

As someone once told me be careful how you word something, someone is going to take your word for what you said and you will have to deal with the outcome of what you said.

 

Pretty much this...but the fact they put it on for such an absurd price for a small group of people who "would pay anything" is ridiculous. They should have just put it on for 500cc or something, and untradeable, it would have appealed to more people that way. Not everyone can give 2000cc for that.

[Kurgun]

Irony.

 

Thanks for proving my point....again.

[Andryah]

Why are you even on this crusade to defend them when you have clearly stated you don't care for either of these dyes? Does this give you some sort of ego boost by pretending to be some higher form of intelligence?

 

1) I'm not defending anything. I am discussing the topic, and I am not following the sheeples off the edge of the cliff over the price of something completely optional in the game. I'm able to clearly see that this move represents progress in the availability of these dyes to players both in terms of more of them, and at lower prices to acquire.

 

2) stop playing intellectual victim. Be an adult and have an adult discussion, rather then resorting to faux indignation over "intelligence". Discuss the topic, not me.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Andryah

[SammuelSK]

The original dye system was anti-consumer in the first place and both the players and EA know it. This is why it ultimately failed. Nobody likes spending 200cc for 2 random primary/secondary dye kits that will most likely look terrible and sell for less than 10-20k credits on the GTN. Not when you can buy a similarly priced item, say a 160cc cartel pack and sell it for roughly 200k depending on your server. The chances of getting something worthwhile from a 200cc kit are just too small.

 

Now if they actually implemented a system that allowed us to pick our own primary, secondary, and tertiary colors, people would most likely be willing to buy those - provided the color palette was appealing, and you could possibly buy the colors directly, or just got more than 2 random colors from cartel market.

 

In my opinion, they should just add all the colors to the cartel market directly, and allow us to add them to collections. Charge anywhere from 500cc to 1.2k and standard rates to unlock them legacy wide. Separating Primary and secondary dye slots would be wonderful too.

 

This x100. The system as implemented is broken and does not work. Their 'fix' doesn't actually fix a single thing. Are dyes now more accessable? No. Is customization now a more viable option for players who like to change armors? Nope, in the end you are still being forced to go out and buy the same colour you've already purchased before. All these things remain as before, not a single thing has been improved or updated. As said before, there are plenty of games who have a exceedingly better implemented system.

 

Lets come out and call this what it is. Adding a $20.00 dye to the cash shop isn't 'giving players more options' its ripping off the player base because you know they'll buy it and you want a piece of the market.

[CosmicKat]

Everytime you bring this point up (games fail cause they're not hard) I can't help but wonder if you thought WOW was a difficult to play game.

 

It would certainly explain a lot if you did.

 

I played about 15 minutes of WoW when it launched, realized it was a kid's version of EQ and never went back. From what I understand, it gradually became less of an EQ clone, but that's what it was at launch. WoW is an anomaly though. Other games are near exactly like it and have failed spectacularly.

 

It's not just about a game being "hard". It's about being compelling. One of the best ways to make any game compelling is to make it a challenge. It instills a sense of accomplishment in the player for "beating" it. Any successful game should be easy to play and hard to master, which is why chess is still played centuries after it was invented.

[Andryah]

Lets come out and call this what it is. Adding a $20.00 dye to the cash shop isn't 'giving players more options' its ripping off the player base because you know they'll buy it and you want a piece of the market.

 

You cannot be ripped off if they cannot force you to purchase something. You, the buyer, make the choice to buy/not_buy.

 

If you don't agree with the way something is offered to you.. do not acquire it. Show some impulse control.

 

You can debate/discuss the fairness of the price.. but to claim you are being ripped off requires you to actually pay the price charged.. which I assume as an intelligent adult you are able to decide if it's worth it to you or not. You can't have it both ways.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Andryah

[Cernow]

There are no rules about what a consumer's role is. The market is driven by supply and demand. Consumers demand things for thier daily lives. That demands drives prices up and down based on supply and consumer spending habits. In SWTOR the customer wants color packs and it is OBVIOUS they are willing to pay for them

 

You think you are being fleeced? BLAME THE CONSUMER. If the consumer didn't buy things at these prices then Bioware wouldn't charge for at that price. Why do you think they backed off the $20 tag? They realized consumers won't pay that.

 

The rules of supply and demand apply more to physical products where there is a quantifiable supply, due to cost or availability of raw materials, manufacturing output, labour availability etc etc. This doesn't apply for virtual goods which can be duplicated at little or no cost to the developer. So supply and demand is not driven by the usual market forces, it is manipulated purely by the supplier. And yes I realise this can happen with physical poducts too, but often someone will come in and offer a cheaper alternative. Most economies also have rules about monopolies, cartels and anti-competitive practices. But within the context of this discussion EA have a monopoly and total control over everything. There is no player driven economy here (whales offloading their purchases on the GTN is not a player driven economy).

 

At the time of writing no-one has bought any of these dyes anyway because they aren't yet available for direct purchase. So we can only speculate how well they will sell. I have a hunch they won't sell anywhere near as well as you think they will. Partly price, and partly because some of the potential customers won't want to look crass.

 

The problem with virtual goods is it is still a bit of a wild west. So companies like EA are seeing how far they can push things. Now this might be fine for the EA shareholders in the short term, no doubt there's fat profits to be made farming whales. But in the longer term, gouging the customers might do sufficient harm to their reputation that people walk away from EA titles in enough numbers to dent their profits and make shareholders sit up and ask questions. It's not exactly like EA have got a good track record, is it?

[Andryah]

Thanks for proving my point....again.

 

More Irony.

[SammuelSK]

You cannot be ripped off if they cannot force you to purchase something. You, the buyer, make the choice to buy/not_buy.

 

If you don't agree with the way something is offered to you.. do not acquire it. Show some impulse control.

 

You can debate/discuss the fairness of the price.. but to claim you are being ripped off requires you to actually pay the price charged.. which I assume as an intelligent adult you are able to decide if it's worth it to you or not. You can't have it both ways.

 

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/as+a+matter+of+principle

 

Look it up.

[Andryah]

The rules of supply and demand apply more to physical products where there is a quantifiable supply, due to cost or availability of raw materials, manufacturing output, labour availability etc etc. This doesn't apply for virtual goods which can be duplicated at little or no cost to the developer.

 

Supply and demand applies to virtual products.. any product really.. that any consumer can actually buy.. virtually or in reality. If there is a supply and there is a demand.. there is a supply/demand force in play. Price is set by supplier, value is determined by the demander... if the two match reasonably close.. a sale takes place.

 

Cost to deliver is what you are actually talking about.. and that has nothing to do with pricing. Virtual products have a sunk cost to design and a nominal cost to deliver clones.. but cost to clone is essentially zero.

 

I get the point you are trying for ----> that since it costs them nothing to produce digital clones.. they should charge almost nothing for it. HOWEVEr that simply is not how licensing of intellectual property works in the world. And at the end of the day.. what your CC buys when you purchase an item in the CM is ------> is a license to one copy of the item to do with what you want. You don't own it, you cannot take it out of the game and apply it to your car, you cannot sell it or in any other manner legally deliver it to a 3rd party outside the game.

[Vis-Tecum]

Pretty much this...but the fact they put it on for such an absurd price for a small group of people who "would pay anything" is ridiculous. They should have just put it on for 500cc or something, and untradeable, it would have appealed to more people that way. Not everyone can give 2000cc for that.

 

that's the point. its a luxury item for the few who will and can pay, not for everyone

 

its obvious bioware still wants the dyes to be random drops and the market to be player driven based off of the supply of these drops, or else why not put all the dyes up for direct purchase, and why didn't they do it from day 1

 

for a game that everything is supposedly a cash grab they do a really piss poor job of making me have to spend real money on anything with it all being on the gtn

 

I know everyone is against the analogies but you don't make a luxury sports car and price it so high for "everyone" that's what the Toyota corolla is for. you make a luxury sports car for the people who want something more and price it so that you get top dollar out of that small customer base. and yes in the context of dyes the black / black and white / white are the luxury sports cars of the dyes

Edited September 6, 2013 by Vis-Tecum

[Andryah]

It's certainly possible, but not a very useful way to spend money(especially when people will do it on their own for free).

 

There are plenty people on both sides of discussion in the forum, some very passionate, some very casual, some persistent, some transient.

 

There is absolutely no need for anyone/anybody to pay anything for the activity. But it is a popular urban legend that people like to pull out when they find it difficult to actually discuss the topic rather then the players.

 

I'm used to it.. and it's generally a good indicator that someone feels they are losing their points in a discussion through lack of merit when they resort to accusing others of being paid shills.

[ImperialSun]

that's the point. its a luxury item for the few who will and can pay, not for everyone

 

its obvious bioware still wants the dyes to be random drops and the market to be player driven based off of the supply of these drops, or else why not put all the dyes up for direct purchase, and why didn't they do it from day 1

 

I know everyone is against the analogies but you don't make a luxury sports car and price it so high for "everyone" that's what the Toyota corolla is for. you make a luxury sports car for the people who want something more and price it so that you get top dollar out of that small customer base. and yes in the context of dyes the black / black and white / white are the luxury sports cars of the dyes

 

Exactly....

 

And those that cant or wont pay the rl dollars will very soon be able to buy the dyes at a reduced price on the GTN as they will be more common

 

Its win / win...

 

If these dyes sell like hotcakes on the CM I am sure we can trust the integrity of the hate squad to post admittimg that the price is not therefore ridiculous...

 

Driz

[mikebevo]

If people are willing to spend the money on it, then more power to BioWare for offering it. I will not however be spending $10 or $20 for a dye pack, but not going to ridicule a company for being in business or the people that buy it.

 

When do I get my check for being postive to BioWare? I will just take $10.00 worth of CC for the white/white dye pack.

[Andryah]

that's the point. its a luxury item for the few who will and can pay, not for everyone

 

its obvious bioware still wants the dyes to be random drops and the market to be player driven based off of the supply of these drops, or else why not put all the dyes up for direct purchase, and why didn't they do it from day 1

 

for a game that everything is supposedly a cash grab they do a really piss poor job of making me have to spend real money on anything with it all being on the gtn

 

I know everyone is against the analogies but you don't make a luxury sports car and price it so high for "everyone" that's what the Toyota corolla is for. you make a luxury sports car for the people who want something more and price it so that you get top dollar out of that small customer base. and yes in the context of dyes the black / black and white / white are the luxury sports cars of the dyes

 

The point missed by many is that rare things in demand on the CM is an excellent way to draw down free coins from the subscriber pool. They assume it's a cash grab, but it's not really. Sure they will get revenue from some players, but the unspoken market is subscribers looking for easy ways to convert free CCs into in game credits. Cartel Packs have often been the easy preference for this. Now.. these dyes represent another choice.

 

There are players that spend their free CCs on very specific things in the CM they want. There are players that save them and almost never spend them (or only spend them on non-CM things like Collections). There are players that like to convert them to in game credits. There are all types of players and it is this last category that is often overlooked.

[Andryah]

pft internet + passion and a healthy dose of sarcasm.

 

Simple solution, reduce the price of the dyes, remove the "unify colors" option problem solved

 

Heh.. remove dyes completely along with unify colors.. and then watch the horrific melt downs.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Andryah

[Reno_Tarshil]

This would fall into the "spinning reality to match the corporate view" point.

 

50% off something that should not cost extra is not a deal, no matter how much it is spun.

 

So the truth is just "spinning reality to match the corporate view"? You sound upset, may I offer you a hug?

[DOHboy]

Heh.. remove dyes completely along with unify colors.. and then watch the horrific melt downs.

 

$20 to buy it outright...

$5 but only lasts 30 days at which point will be replaced by hot pink and neon green with a mix of pastel purple

Edited September 6, 2013 by DOHboy