How do you kill a scoundrel?

[Evolixe]

According to OotiniCast, the class balancing team is mainly PvP-focused.

 

There is no "team" the guy is alone. And has more responsibilities than class balancing alone.

 

Which is why it takes so damn long for anything to happen.

[L-RANDLE]

DP..

 

/5char..

Edited September 5, 2013 by L-RANDLE

[Sathid]

Easily.

[Sathid]

Every few months someone posts "Nerf OP/Sc" thread and it is really becoming dumb.

 

I recall all the WZ's packed with purple lightning Sorc's and us Scoundrels were at best 3% of all players on any given server and we got batted not once,not twice but three times due to all the sniveling from a group of people that made up stuff even after two nerfs because yah know that just was not enough.

 

I think there is a group out there for what ever reason just do not like scoundrels/Op's.

[L-RANDLE]

Every few months someone posts "Nerf OP/Sc" thread and it is really becoming dumb.

 

I recall all the WZ's packed with purple lightning Sorc's and us Scoundrels were at best 3% of all players on any given server and we got batted not once,not twice but three times due to all the sniveling from a group of people that made up stuff even after two nerfs because yah know that just was not enough.

 

I think there is a group out there for what ever reason just do not like scoundrels/Op's.

 

Its not really a nerf when you consider the handful of buffs healing got from 1.7 til now.

 

And yes Ops DPS does need a slight buff. Overall, your class is not the discussion here, all specs are out of whack in some form or fashion, and part of it is because of the unwarranted nerfs previously.

[Yestreen]

Coordinated teams know how to hard switch and kill anything within a 4-second stun window.

 

Anything means anything. That includes operatives. The only requirements are good peels and choosing the right target i.e. the guy who is over-extended or out of position.

 

You will rarely find good operatives standing out of position so you if you want to score a kill on them you must cause them to be out of position by using knockbacks/pulls etc.

 

Overall, the key to killing anything, including operatives, is coordination and good cc.

[L-RANDLE]

Coordinated teams know how to hard switch and kill anything within a 4-second stun window.

 

Anything means anything. That includes operatives. The only requirements are good peels and choosing the right target i.e. the guy who is over-extended or out of position.

 

You will rarely find good operatives standing out of position so you if you want to score a kill on them you must cause them to be out of position by using knockbacks/pulls etc.

 

Overall, the key to killing anything, including operatives, is coordination and good cc.

This is why its not ideal. It shouldnt take a coordinated team to kill anything in a reasonable amount of time when timers, respawns, heals, cc, and resolve exists.

 

Healing should only be as strong as the tank standing with them, when approached by 1 DPS class, otherwise all bets are off. Their output needs to be lower than it currently is, especially when unguarded.

[Tankqull]

This is why its not ideal. It shouldnt take a coordinated team to kill anything in a reasonable amount of time when timers, respawns, heals, cc, and resolve exists.

 

Healing should only be as strong as the tank standing with them, when approached by 1 DPS class, otherwise all bets are off. Their output needs to be lower than it currently is, especially when unguarded.

 

thats rubbish

all you want them to be are walking deads that bend over and accept to be backfilling on your likings.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Tankqull

[NotAnyOldName]

Scoundrel healers by themselves aren't too hard, but with a competent tank on their side they are near impossible to kill without precise co-ordination from your team.

[L-RANDLE]

thats rubbish

all you want them to be are walking deads that bend over and accept to be backfilling on your likings.

 

So you are you saying tanks are better tanks than healers are?

I say rubbish to you good sir...

[Tankqull]

So you are you saying tanks are better tanks than healers are?

 

by a hughe margin, running around avoid beeing hit by losing an attacker, vanishing, staying behind the avarage mdps nowadays neglecting his dmg completly, etc. is not tanking in the slightest way. but thats what you have to do to be not killed as healer within 20sec vs a crap dps.

so no healer regaldless wich one you choose even the most tanky merc are as tanky as the crapiest tank out there.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Tankqull

[sithBracer]

by a hughe margin, running around avoid beeing hit by losing an attacker, vanishing, staying behind the avarage mdps nowadays neglecting his dmg completly, etc. is not tanking in the slightest way. but thats what you have to do to be not killed as healer within 20sec vs a crap dps.

so no healer regaldless wich one you choose even the most tanky merc are as tanky as the crapiest tank out there.

 

You are arguing with a brick wall, randle just fell in love with his weird theory based on one set of numbers and refuses to give it up. He hasn't played with a healer (even if he says he did, it's most likely a lie) and just blames them for absolutely everything, when in fact he just doesn't accept or agree with the whole mechanics of the game. Hell, he even thinks its the healers fault that a guarded healer is hard/impossible to kill while being under taunt. I suggest ignoring him.

[anwg]

1 well played lightning sorc can do it easily.

[L-RANDLE]

Brick wall? No.. Do you know why the crit nerf was a buff for healers? Do you know why the DR on EXP was a buff for healers? Do you know why the shield change was a buff for healers? You two are the nubs that think the healing buffs were warranted because you are focused all the time, when I am telling you the problem is......

 

You shouldnt be focused.

 

 

Of course neither of you could fathom this notion and automatically assumed I "want to kill healers in a few globals". Its the typical comback for the "don't nerf me bro" crowd, even though I said, point blank, that tank guard should buff your healing output to accompany a 10% healing nerf. So is that really a nerf? Would you still be focused by DPS if the guard mechanic was changed?

Nope and Nope, and yeah I know a 10% nerf is so damn class breaking....

 

 

Tanking and kiting does similar things in PvP. Guess what? "Running around, and doing all the lolrolling" is just as effective as a tank absorbing damage, if not more. The reason you have to run around all the time is because DPS is focused on, what is, easily the squishiest classes in the game.

 

Disagree all you want. BW has made a point in adding role ques to PvP. Your nerf will follow..

Edited September 6, 2013 by L-RANDLE

[Tankqull]

Brick wall? No.. Do you know why the crit nerf was a buff for healers? Do you know why the DR on EXP was a buff for healers? Do you know why the shield change was a buff for healers? You two are the nubs that think the healing buffs were warranted because you are focused all the time, when I am telling you the problem is......

 

You shouldnt be focused.

 

lol?

why is increasing the gap between trauma debuff and heal-increasment by expertise a buff?

why - when relying heavily on crits as healers do especially ops/scound as a 1.7k insta doesnt help anyone - is a 35% reduction in my crit ratio a buff?

sure the changes to tank shield ability and the implementation of his mitigation towards transferred guard dmg did alot for healers to keep the tank and the guarded one, aslong as its not the healer himself, alive. bujt its not a buff to healing per se.

 

and why shouldn´t healer beeing focused? thats what happening in every mmo since 1997. only terribads refuse to do that.

 

edit:

Of course neither of you could fathom this notion and automatically assumed I "want to kill healers in a few globals". Its the typical comback for the "don't nerf me bro" crowd, even though I said, point blank, that tank guard should buff your healing output to accompany a 10% healing nerf. So is that really a nerf? Would you still be focused by DPS if the guard mechanic was changed?

Nope and Nope, and yeah I know a 10% nerf is so damn class breaking....

as long as healing is worthwhile aka the TTK increasement by healing is bigger than the TTK decreasement by an additional DD - healer will be focused regardless of the guard mechanics to get rid of them. the moment the TTK increasement drops below that point they will simply be substituted by an additional DD.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Tankqull

[L-RANDLE]

lol?

why is increasing the gap between trauma debuff and heal-increasment by expertise a buff?

why - when relying heavily on crits as healers do especially ops/scound as a 1.7k insta doesnt help anyone - is a 35% reduction in my crit ratio a buff?

sure the changes to tank shield ability and the implementation of his mitigation towards transferred guard dmg did alot for healers to keep the tank and the guarded one, aslong as its not the healer himself, alive. bujt its not a buff to healing per se.

 

and why shouldn´t healer beeing focused? thats what happening in every mmo 1997. only terribads refuse to do that.

so because it was always done like this means we should just accept a god awful approach to class/role balancing?

 

Sounds like a good option....

 

Shield don't work on crit attacks, crit was nerfed.

Shield mechanics changed in general to increase tank uptime....

The DR was removed from EXP, which resulted in a net 5% EXP healing buff.

Various QoL changes to enable various escapes and immunities.. -meh

 

Healers shouldn't be focused because they don't have the hard mitigation. Instead, they are given heals that are disproportionatly high when not under focus. Instead of doing this, change the focus. Make tanks stronger, nerf smash. More tanks less smashers=healing buff. Better class balance..

 

You could swallow this nerf.

Edited September 6, 2013 by L-RANDLE

[sithBracer]

See what I mean. He's upset at the mechanics of this game, he refuses to accept facts, he refuses to even have one duel as an op healer, he pulls stuff out of his *** and blames the healer for his lack of skill and the current game composition. And when his argument goes all over the place he just says we are making a "don't nerf me bro" thread when in reality I personally am ok with some of the nerfs suggested as it will not change anything, and I know that bioware is not even reading this "don't nerf me bro" thread, nor would they give a crap if they did. Let him go on QQing, if more people stop directly responding to his QQs and call them out for what they are, it will end faster.

[Tankqull]

you can change what ever you want - aslong as healing is worthwhile healer will be focused.

the only option to avoid that is by having heavy drawbacks on focussing, sth like you do 100% of your dmg when attacking someone solo, but it will drop to <<<50% the moment someone else does dmg to your target aswell.

[L-RANDLE]

All over the place? Lol what.. I have said the same damn thing over and over again... I can't help it you can't read or comprehend..

 

No wonder PvP is going to hell in a hand-basket. People arguing against balance changes. LOL DON'T SAY **** ABOUT SMASH ANYMORE THEN TROLLFACE HYPOCRITE ..

 

You know what? Bruck it. I'm done talking about it..

[Tankqull]

The DR was removed from EXP, which resulted in a net 5% EXP healing buff.

you should get your numbers right. that was the first PTS version of 2.0 in later versions the healing curve has been lowered leading to a net LOSS of 5+% vs pre 2.0.

not to mention the changes of healing setbonis to absolut horrible ones forcing you to use pve set lowering your EXP even further.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Tankqull

[sithBracer]

All over the place? Lol what.. I have said the same damn thing over and over again... I can't help it you can't read or comprehend..

 

No wonder PvP is going to hell in a hand-basket. People arguing against balance changes. LOL DON'T SAY **** ABOUT SMASH ANYMORE THEN TROLLFACE HYPOCRITE ..

 

You know what? Bruck it. I'm done talking about it..

 

Please point me to my QQ about smash. The only thing remotely bad I said about smash was "put a guard on the healer and smash monkeys will scratch their butts". Unlike you I don't QQ about classes/specs I don't know much about. I never played a rage marauder (I chose a jugg) so I don't complain about marauders at all.

 

But thanks for not talking about it.

[Ottoattack]

you should get your numbers right. that was the first PTS version of 2.0 in later versions the healing curve has been lowered leading to a net LOSS of 5+% vs pre 2.0.

not to mention the changes of healing setbonis to absolut horrible ones forcing you to use pve set lowering your EXP even further.

 

To be honest, no one can calculate exactly how effective are healers currently compared to pre-expansion, because expertise and bolster now kind of work in mysterious ways, considering that the difference between a 154 hilt and 168 hilt is about 3 bonus damage.. Also healing debuff was reduced from 40% to 35%. I tried doing the math on healing before, and I have very strong in math back ground, and still can not figure what exactly changed, because of the bolster of main and off hand weapons. What we know for fact is that critic was dropped by approximately 10% and surge by 5%. We also can tell from experience, that healing output has increased by 15% to 20%.

 

Is it a result of expertise change, bolster on mh and oh weapons, reduction of healing debuff, reduction in critic and surge and/or a combination of all this junk? No one knows exactly and that includes BW devs. The result is the same. WZs are stalemates because no one dies.

 

Now, as a comparison of healers, there are 3 criteria impact healer performance in PvP:

 

1- Output under pressure.

2- Mobility.

3- Survivability.

 

Sorc? Turret healer, with long casts that are highly prone to interruption. Can only cast hot and barrier while moving. Have okay survivability. Merc? Same as above, with lower output and slightly better survivability? Ops? Best healer under pressure, best mobility and best survivability. The main weakness of Ops pre expansion was mobility. They had little options to quickly change position, so they can be very easily cornered if snared, then BW in their infinite wisdom gave them the ability to change position instantly, with no CD, become immune on the process and remove all debuffs, among defensive CDs that were regarded strongest among all healers.

 

How do you kill a competent healing ops? Aside from chain CC, where half your dps is targeted to him/her its almost impossible. As dps they can't be soloed unless you luck out on a bunch of ctitcs in a row, otherwise, all you can do is to lower there output.

 

The PvP stats currently is really sad.. We went from an understandable system that is relatively balanced, where all class (except merc) had at least one optimal spec to an ambiguous system, with most games end being a stalemate with one optimal tank, one optimal healer and 2-3 dps. Truly sad.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Ottoattack

[sithBracer]

They had little options to quickly change position, so they can be very easily cornered if snared, then BW in their infinite wisdom gave them the ability to change position instantly, with no CD, become immune on the process and remove all debuffs, among defensive CDs that were regarded strongest among all healers.

 

Ok, either tell me how to do that (so I can do it), or tell me what you are smoking (because I want some of that). Which BEST defensive CD is that? Because there is no way it could be that defensive orb.

[Zoom_VI]

Personally I think guard should get a talent high in the tank tree where its makes healers uninterruptable, with infinite range (on the immunity not on the DR) that way when going after teams using mandos or sages they have to focus the tank in order the be able to shut down the healer. However since scoundrels don't rely on casts this doesn't affect their performance.

[Evolixe]

Personally I think guard should get a talent high in the tank tree where its makes healers uninterruptable, with infinite range (on the immunity not on the DR) that way when going after teams using mandos or sages they have to focus the tank in order the be able to shut down the healer. However since scoundrels don't rely on casts this doesn't affect their performance.

 

What.... I don't even..

 

What you are suggesting is outrageously OP.

Edited September 6, 2013 by Evolixe