Kaggath Tournament - Droid Supremacy vs Undying Brotherhood

[marcelo_sdk]

I see a lot of arguments in the first 10 pages, saying that the Commerce Guild only produces utility droids, and that HK-01 would subvert them easily.

 

First, I already showed that my supplier can provide me with a fairly strong droid army. Second, HK-01 capabilities are being highly overestimated. He's not like IG-88, who could hack droids in a direct and quick approach. HK's rebellion was produced via encrypted messages, which took some time to arrive, and even them, these messages were easily deciphered by the Republic, which eneded the rebellion. So no, HK don't have this power and this won't come to play.

 

And I really fail to see how the Black Sun Navy could outnumber Revan's Navy, who had an almost unlimited production and possessed an overwhelming majority over the republic, at it's height.

Edited September 1, 2013 by marcelo_sdk

[Canino]

I see G0-T0 playing defensively, while slowly working PROXY and Guri into the UB. Then he can assassinate, or do whatever needs to be done. He will know however, that offensive warfare will, for the most part, fail.

 

The DS's main strength is its numbers. G0-T0 will know that Malgus will attempt to destroy that advantage, and will calculate accordingly. All G0-T0 has to do is fight Malgus off, and then produce, slowly whittling down the UB while he grows stronger.

 

EDIT: G0-T0 will go to any lengths to destroy the UB. G0-T0 hunted down Jedi and Sith alike, as they where the key reasons, in his mind, that the republic would fall. Now his is fighting against an army that is made entirely of Sith.....

Edited September 1, 2013 by Canino

[Beniboybling]

Now to Beni- 4 days for 500+ rather large ships to travel the smaller hyperspace lanes through Hutt space? Doubtful, easily a 6-10 days at minimum, more if they coordinate with the Kamino fleet. And how in the hell wouldn't G0-T0 know about it ahead of time anyway? (heck they pass 2 of his planets on the way) Also, I'd like to see those strike teams (assuming imperial forces on hoth sized) land only to find their own heavy weapons turn on them while they're outnumber and outranged by the defenders while fighting on Geonosis. On Kamino the terror units will rip them a new one.

 

Also, in a few days it does take I see the plants on Geonosis producing 8-13 thousand droids easily all from scratch so Grievous would have to make an all out assault and couldn't split his forces nearly as much.

 

Regardless of how long it takes, I still say Mon Cal will the be prime fight location due to its proximity and importance. If UB can take total space dominance then it'll be up to G0-T0 and the Black Sun blockade runners to get the job done.

You make a point, that navigating through Hutt Space will be slow and painful. However that would only lead them to take an alternate route. Take a look at this map. Lianna and Sith Space are closely adjacent to a super-hyperoute, the Permelian Trade Route. Which will take them to Lantillies, taking a left there will eventually take them all the way to the Coreillian Run and then their at Geonosis.

 

Now while this does force them to navigate through the Mid Rim they are still travelling on fast hyperlanes and if uninterrupted will likely reach Geonosis within 6 days of departure. However for G0-T0 it will be a top priority to slow there progress, and with the Exchange and the Black Sun Navy at his disposal we can be sure he will attempt to intercept and ambush the fleet - however he'll have to predict its path first.

 

And on top of this G0-T0 would not know at which planet Malgus would strike, and therefore have no choice but to spread his forces thin, however his piracy network might tip him off as to their destination.

 

Concerning strike teams, don't underestimate the resolve of Lord Vindicaa and Durge - combined these are a deadly and devastating pair. Malgus himself is worth at least a thousand battle droids and each Sith Warrior probably one hundred. And no strike team is going to be lugging heavy walkers along with them. Despite this I expect an all out assault on Geonosis is most likely. Mon Cal has shipyards but the Brotherhood is already aware they have grossly superior firepower, and are also aware that Mon Cal can't churn out powerful capital ships and clone troops at as a rapid rate as the foundries on Geonosis. Which after thought can probably produce 50,000 battle droids a day. Take out those foundries, and the Supremacy may as well kiss its ground forces goodbye, and even after a few weeks of production time the Brotherhood will still have a superior naval force.

 

Also, further expansion on Bothawui's status. While G0-T0 does not have access to the Bothan Spynet, the planet remains an information hub - which I'm sure G0-T0 is capable of tapping into - effectively setting on his own network.

[Beniboybling]

On planets, I feel like you misunderstand. My planets have metal. Your planets have no metal. Even if you could create more ships, where are your metals coming from? Geonosis and Bothawui have minerals. Nar Shaddaa's black market has metals. But where is the Commerce Guild going to buy or mine their needed materials?

Trade, your Majesty. Trade.

My space force has already been nerfed to make it only twice as large as yours. And that's quite a nerf.

Don't look at me. Take it up with the developers at Petroglyph.

[Canino]

Trade, your Majesty. Trade.

 

Than pirating will be most effective.....

[Beniboybling]

Than pirating will be most effective.....

Arrr!

[Canino]

The problem with trade is that the UB will be using the KT-400 military droid carrier as its freighter (it is one). It was used by traders, the Republic, and Revan, and it has a 40 ton cargo bay, along with dual laser cannons. However, it doesn't seem to have shields, making it a nice target for bounty hunters, the Exchange, or even ships from the Navy.

[Warren-Stride]

Second, HK-01 capabilities are being highly overestimated. He's not like IG-88, who could hack droids in a direct and quick approach. HK's rebellion was produced via encrypted messages, which took some time to arrive... So no, HK don't have this power and this won't come to play.

 

You're right, he's not like IG-88. IG-88 had to download his programming into other droids, which limited his ability to droids he had direct access to. HK-01, with his messages, can corrupt virtually any droid.

 

Messages take some time to arrive? What? Remember how people can talk to each other via hologram through REAL TIME while being half a galaxy apart?

 

As for the Republic tracking the messages, so what? They'll known that he's sending them from Nar Shaddaa, or know that the messages tell droids to kill them all. Even if the UB then stops using droids all together, that will seriously hinder their army, infrastructure, production capacity, repair times, the list goes on.

[Warren-Stride]

And I really fail to see how the Black Sun Navy could outnumber Revan's Navy, who had an almost unlimited production and possessed an overwhelming majority over the republic, at it's height.

 

I'm pulling the numbers argument. No WAY is the Black Sun Navy outnumbered. The Black Sun was the most rich criminal organization ever seen, and it was spread across the galaxy. There were nine Black Sun Vigos, and each controlled a sector of about 40 systems. Assuming that each system the Black Sun controlled had only 10 ships over it, that's already 3,600 ships. More realistically, if the planets had 20 over them, that would be 7,200 ships. And so on and so forth. That's not counting all of the ships that are constantly on pirating runs and smuggling.

 

But, alas, instead of having seven thousand I only have two thousand. Frigates. Which is fine because I'm almost positive that two of the Black Sun's frigates, plus vastly superior fighter support, can take on one of Revan's Navy's capital ships.

[Wolfninjajedi]

You're right, he's not like IG-88. IG-88 had to download his programming into other droids, which limited his ability to droids he had direct access to. HK-01, with his messages, can corrupt virtually any droid.

 

? How did it limit his ability hm? IG-88 took over a planet without stepping foot on it and was about to take over the whole galaxy, with millions of produced droids with his sentience if it weren't for dem pesky Rebels.

 

Also how do you know HK could do so? All it says is that he reprogrammed some droids, doesn't say how just that he did.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Warren-Stride]

? How did it limit his ability hm? IG-88 took over a planet without stepping foot on it and was about to take over the whole galaxy, with millions of produced droids with his sentience if it weren't for dem pesky Rebels.

 

I'm not trying to belittle IG-88's accomplishments. All I'm saying is that IG-88 could only influence droids that he produced, whereas HK-01 can corrupt many more.

Also how do you know HK could do so? All it says is that he reprogrammed some droids, doesn't say how just that he did.

 

I'm doing the best I can with little information. I chose HK-01 as one of my two allies because of this ability.

 

OMG, guys, HK-01 is in the SWTOR codex! This next quote makes me really happy:

Did droids deserve the same treatment as organic beings, and was owning droids tantamount to slavery? This question was rendered moot when a Czerka-built assassin droid, HK-01, went rogue and began reprogramming other droids to rise up against their masters, in what would be called the Great Droid Revolution. Republic citizens, surrounded by thousands of rogue droids–every model, from protocol to sanitation to battle units–found themselves at the mercy of their former servants. Several planets were subjugated in the name of the droid rebellion, until the signal controlling the droids was traced. Following the signal, a team of Jedi destroyed HK-01, returning the rogue droids to their original programming. The relieved Republic returned to normal, and the issue of droid rights was not raised again.

 

So it looks like HK-01 did, indeed, control the droids by signal, which he could easily broadcast throughout the galaxy ( he's apparently already done in the past ), with the help of G0-T0 and his resources.

[Beniboybling]

I fear we are underestimating the power of the Brotherhood's ground troops a little, so I'll pitch in for Marcelo again and elaborate. In a general sense, the defining nature of the Brotherhood's ground forces is devastating power.

 

Darth Malgus: this man is likely going to leading all major ground invasions, as he did typically. Alongside being an excellent military tactician with a string of victories to show for it he is an incredibly powerful warrior capable of "single-handedly shattering fortifications" and crushing "even the strongest resistance with his unorthodox methods and powerful anger." He is extremely powerful in the dark side and incredibly difficult to kill, capable of withstanding point-blank grenade explosions and missile fire with practiced ease.

 

Asajj Ventress: Ventress or rather Lord Vindicaa as well has being an excellent lightsaber duelist is also a skilled military tactician. However her primary role will likely be infiltration which she displayed remarkable ability in when sent to rescue Nute Gunray, easily infiltrating the vessel undetected and evading even droids with incredible agility. I fully expect she'd be able to move deep behind enemy lines undetected.

 

Durge: is an immortal powerhouse, he is incredibly strong and extremely difficult to kill. His armor and body are practically impervious to standard blaster fire and I'm sure he can recover from tank fire. On top of this he has an array of weaponry at his disposal making him capable of going toe-to-toe even with Jedi. I expect he will be best used alongside a strike team of Sith Warriors, carving a path through more lightly defended enemy lines while the main force is distracted elsewhere, and then doing serious damage with explosives and the like.

 

The Brotherhood holds all the cards concerning tactical ability, which will only bolster the capabilities and effectiveness of the equally deadly forces that these individuals will be leading:

 

Sith Warriors: To quote the Old Republic Encyclopedia:

 

Millions strive to become Sith, but many prove too weak to earn the honor. Among the powerful survivors, only the most stalwart and aggressive warriors possess the relentless tenacity to lead the forefront of the Empire's war. Charging into the fray with fearsome battle cries and deadly lightsabers, Sith warriors break their enemies with sheer dominating will and crush any foe that doesn't flee from their unforgiving march. The most triumphant warriors inspire legions of allies with fear and reverence. Under Sith command, bolstered armies fight with roused passion and pride, often decimating superior numbers with their indomitable assaults. Whether striking for the Empire's glory or for personal renown, there is no more dominating force than the Sith warrior.

 

These warriors will be at the forefront of advancing forces and a combination of saber shields and durasteel armor will protect them and the forces behind them from any kind of hailfire the Supremacy can throw at them, effectively eliminating any ranged advantage they might have. And when they get in close they will decimate the flimsy B1 battle droids and their tank support who will be incapable of firing at close range.

 

Massassi Warriors: these creatures have been born and bred for battle and are all Force sensitive in varying extents, and along with being larger and stronger than an average humanoid they have extremely tough hides. They are fearsome, ruthless and efficient soldiers and are incredibly loyal to their Sith masters. They use armour hardened through alchemy. And are armed with deadly battle axes which when swung release a spray of lethal metal disks like this, which they were capable of guiding through the Force. And despite their brutish nature they are capable of carrying out complex battle plans. And those transformed by Naga Sadow make up for lack of intelligence through sheer power, becoming even larger and stronger and more powerful in the dark side than their predecessors.

 

Combined, and with Malgus, Durge and Vindicaa at the helm these forces will cut a devastating swathe through an all droid army whose primary weakness is melee attacks and powerful assaults. There will be no blaster wielding opponents to be flanked and overwhelmed, but a wall of deadly warriors moving in to flatten their enemies. Literally a 15,000 strong cascading force of death. The Supremacy is going to be hard pressed to hold off such an assault.

Edited September 2, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

The problem with trade is that the UB will be using the KT-400 military droid carrier as its freighter (it is one). It was used by traders, the Republic, and Revan, and it has a 40 ton cargo bay, along with dual laser cannons. However, it doesn't seem to have shields, making it a nice target for bounty hunters, the Exchange, or even ships from the Navy.

We should however always consider how much damage can actually be done.

 

The Brotherhood's droids are soon going to prove ineffective on several fronts, so production will be limited, and even then they are merely secondary support to the organic warriors, and not really necessary. The Massassai warriors are a nomadic people and have a variety of prey to hunt and kill to provide them with food. Which will limit the need for food supplies down to 1,000 Sith Warriors. And I'm sure what they already have stocked up will suffice.

 

In addition they have no need for weapon resupply, only fuel.

[Warren-Stride]

*Sigh*

 

I should have known my ground force would be belittled to merely B1s.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[Wolfninjajedi]

I'm not trying to belittle IG-88's accomplishments. All I'm saying is that IG-88 could only influence droids that he produced, whereas HK-01 can corrupt many more.

 

 

I'm doing the best I can with little information. I chose HK-01 as one of my two allies because of this ability.

 

OMG, guys, HK-01 is in the SWTOR codex! This next quote makes me really happy:

 

 

So it looks like HK-01 did, indeed, control the droids by signal, which he could easily broadcast throughout the galaxy ( he's apparently already done in the past ), with the help of G0-T0 and his resources.

 

Who says IG-88 could only control droids that he put his sentience into? Maybe he only did this, to ensure that none of the droids failed on him or w/e...if earlier models can just control other droids without such then IG-88 would more than likely be able to do the same, he just preferred his sentience. Though that quote doesn't really say anything new for HK, on his profile it says pretty much the same thing, a bit different but still, HK still needed to reprogram the droids he sent out too. XD

Edited September 1, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Warren-Stride]

Though that quote doesn't really say anything new for HK, on his profile it says pretty much the same thing, a bit different but still, HK still needed to reprogram the droids he sent out too. XD

 

Reprogramming can be done through the messages.

 

That's evidenced by the fact that once the messages stopped, the droids stopped rebelling. If HK-01 had made hardware adjustments to them, rather than software, the stopping of the signal would not have altered their rebellious qualities.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[Warren-Stride]

I'd like to see the UB army take on the guys shown here at 39:00:

 

And the PROXY droids that look exactly like them who will make it Sith vs. Sith and then who knows who's on your side? Could end up fighting a real Sith. Oops.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[marcelo_sdk]

First, differently from what most think, the droids the Commerce Guild will provide me will be pivotal. Combine some ranged power, especially the OG-9, whose laser could scramble enemy lines easily, the Sith and the Massassi will have the perfect time to get close enough to decimate DS ranks. And really, we're assuming too much about HK-01, what we know is that he needed an encrypted signal to control droids. Even if he could wield such command, Ventress could easily track him down and destroy him. And your forget the Gossam Commandos.

 

Also, PROXY units are being incredibly overestimated. He could'nt use any Force abilities, as some here believe, and his fighting skills are not even near the individuals they repplicated. Any Sith or Massassi would be enough to scrap him in a matter of seconds.

 

Also, you seem to forget that my supplier will provide me with corvettes, cruisers and bombers, so the fighters from the Navy will be only, as Beni said, to produce more targets than your ships can aim, opening the way for all the firepower behind them.

[Warren-Stride]

First, differently from what most think, the droids the Commerce Guild will provide me will be pivotal.

 

Not exactly the best argument to make.

 

And really, we're assuming too much about HK-01, what we know is that he needed an encrypted signal to control droids. Even if he could wield such command, Ventress could easily track him down and destroy him. And your forget the Gossam Commandos.

 

Assuming too much? You mean where you assume it'll be easy for Ventress to track him down AND destroy him? He's an HK unit. He's also not in plain sight. In fact, he might be, oh I don't know, on a stealthed ship?

 

Also, PROXY units are being incredibly overestimated. He could'nt use any Force abilities, as some here believe, and his fighting skills are not even near the individuals they repplicated. Any Sith or Massassi would be enough to scrap him in a matter of seconds.

 

Please, don't be insulting.

 

PROXY can't use force powers, you're right. But he can replicate them by using repulors in his frame, enabling him to replicate Force Push, Force Pull, and Throw Lightsaber. Please, please, go research PROXY. His fighting skills were exactly that of the individuals he replicated. That's the whole point.

Thanks to his onboard tactical computers, his combat training and programming, and the abundance of reference material provided by his access to the classified levels of Imperial records, PROXY was able to develop combat modules that accurately recreated numerous Force-using duelists.

But I wasn't talking about PROXY, I was talking about PROXY droids. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/PROXY_droid If these are mixed in with the B1s and then suddenly turn into Sith Warriors, it'll cause chaos for the UB forces. Heck, what if they all turned into Malgus-es? THAT would be fun.

 

Also, you seem to forget that my supplier will provide me with corvettes, cruisers and bombers, so the fighters from the Navy will be only, as Beni said, to produce more targets than your ships can aim, opening the way for all the firepower behind them.

 

Your supplier has nowhere to make ships.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[marcelo_sdk]

Question: If HK-01 gets Rebellious and takes Over G0-T0, does G0-T0 automatically lose? 'Cause if at any point HK thinks he can do a better job...........

 

Just read that, and dont' know it was thrown away. Hk-01 wanted to dominate every droid to do his bidding, why GO-TO would be any different?

[Selenial]

Wasn't Kuat the Capital Shipyard of the Imperial Fleet?

 

I was talking about Santhe/Sienar, who's Battle ships and Large vessels were produced at Raxus Prime, along with fighters. Lianna was just a huge Fighter hub, could be refitted (would be before the kaggath) to make a few Large Vessels, but nothing anywhere near Mon Calamari.

[Selenial]

Just thought I'd point out.... As the Geonosian Droid Foundries and the Kaminoan clone Factories were not controlled by Warren's supplier or allies, she cannot use them.

 

According to Beni anyway.

[Warren-Stride]

Just read that, and dont' know it was thrown away. Hk-01 wanted to dominate every droid to do his bidding, why GO-TO would be any different?

 

Because it's not true.

HK-01 began secretly reprogramming his fellow droids, aiming to liberate his automaton brethren from their sentient masters.

He didn't want to rule over all droids. He wanted droids to rule over all biological beings. And G0-T0, as lead of the Droid Supremacy, wants the same thing, and is on his way to accomplishing it.

Edited September 1, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[Warren-Stride]

Just thought I'd point out.... As the Geonosian Droid Foundries and the Kaminoan clone Factories were not controlled by Warren's supplier or allies, she cannot use them.

 

According to Beni anyway.

 

Which is why Beni has been saying that I can use them this whole Kaggath.

 

By that logic, Lianna shipyards aren't controlled by the Commerce Guild so the UB can't use that. The Sith Academy isn't controlled by the Commerce Guild, so the UB can't use that. The Dark Temple isn't controlled by the Commerce Guild so the UB can't use that. So on and so forth.

[marcelo_sdk]

Because it's not true.

 

He didn't want to rule over all droids. He wanted droids to rule over all biological beings. And G0-T0, as lead of the Droid Supremacy, wants the same thing, and is on his way to accomplishing it.

 

GO-TO wanted the Republic to strive, droids dominating organics are hardly the wa he would choose. And about HK, he's doing the same thing Mentor did, subverting the droids personalities to what he thinks is right. He'll do the same to GO-TO, no matter what you think.