Smash balance idea

[HexDecimalUK]

As we all know smash is fine against a single target but in warzones the damage it pulls overall is just not fair (why i play the spec instead of VG and why wouldn't I) so here is a fix idea i had while playing and wondering how it could be controlled better without taking the damage that the jug or mara wants to be doing to his respective target.

 

Mechanic, Smash now knocks back all surround players not effected by force leap's root effect or force crush 3 meters before immediately producing an after shock wave that deals the damage.

 

This would still make smashing a group possible but harder to do damage to all of the warrior would need to exploit situational opportunities and players would have to balled up tighter to be damaged. As a fair trade off the knock back would give the warrior some defense from other warriors or bubble stuns and such even reveal stealthers and still break other CCs. and naturally anyone fully resolved, entrenched, has hydros up wont be knocked out of the damage radius so a clever warrior might still be able to grab those massive points.

 

Anyway that's my only real constructive input i wanted to throw in while the pvp patch is being developed hopefully i kept it short enough

[KamujinKravshera]

Better yet, give smash a cast time so it can be constantly interrupted by the kind of effect that you are trying to buf it with.

[Joesixxpack]

Refreshing to see a thoughtful suggestion instead of just 'NERF IT'.

 

I play a rage mara and a VG to minimize self-loathing.

[gblXsw]

Better yet, give smash a cast time so it can be constantly interrupted by the kind of effect that you are trying to buf it with.

 

Smash with a cast time would probably be the most useless ability in the game.

[HexDecimalUK]

i think smash serving as an AOE interrupt as apposed to damage would be a fair trade off and dont forget its adding resolve to

[sithBracer]

i think smash serving as an AOE interrupt as apposed to damage would be a fair trade off and dont forget its adding resolve to

 

Yes, because the one thing we need is an overpowered attack adding to our resolve, I mean resolve is so useful to absolutely everyone, thank god they came up with it. I love watching my resolve gauge stay in one place when I am rooted like 4 times in a row, then tick a bit when I am hard stunned and finally get filled up on their killing blow only to completely disappear during that time I am in the penalty box. Yup that tradeoff is absolutely perfect. A hard hitting, always criticalling, AOE interrupting ability with a low CD is completely fine, because it adds to your extremely wonderful, well thought out and tested resolve. I can already see the sorc users tears.

Edited August 30, 2013 by sithBracer

[anwg]

i think smash serving as an AOE interrupt as apposed to damage would be a fair trade off and dont forget its adding resolve to

 

1. turn most of its damage into a DOT, like what they did to TD.

2. smash puts down a ground AoE similar to the Jedi NPCs for Poisonous Strategy mission on Ilum

3. take away the auto crit.

4. diminished return for power.

[Rhyn]

Leave it the way it is just change how singularity works. Here is an example

 

1) Singularity now stacks on a targeted player and not the smasher.

 

2) Force sweep now hits a player with stacks of singularity for 10-11k. Force sweep hits all remaining targets, up to 5 total, within 5M for 3500-4500 base damage

 

 

This way 3 smashers hitting you at the same times could only hit you for 10.5-13.5k at max level. That is less than half of most player’s health at 55, and would IMO reduce the amount we see in WZ groups. It will still play the same; still an AOE spec, brings their damage in line with other classes, and fixes the issue with multiple smashers’ ridiculous damage that is impossible to absorb or heal through.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Rhyn

[ErikGW]

Smash is really fine the way it is if 8 people don't stand on top of eachother.

 

The other day we had a team with 3 snipers, 2 tank sins, 1 op healer, 1 sorc healer, and arsenal merc (me) completely destroy a team with 5 smashers, a tank guard and 2 scoundrel healers.

 

Smash mobs are devastating against unaware pugs. Against a team of 8 players that know how to not get smashed, it's laughable.

[JackNader]

I'd like to see smash changed so that its AOE does environmental damage over time. Is anyone familiar with the "jedi fighters" heroic 4 on nar shaddaa. The end bonus boss that you kill in that heroic does a smash environmental AOE attack. Basically it does a lot of damage if you stand in it.

[Rhyn]

Smash is really fine the way it is if 8 people don't stand on top of eachother.

 

The other day we had a team with 3 snipers, 2 tank sins, 1 op healer, 1 sorc healer, and arsenal merc (me) completely destroy a team with 5 smashers, a tank guard and 2 scoundrel healers.

 

Smash mobs are devastating against unaware pugs. Against a team of 8 players that know how to not get smashed, it's laughable.

Dam near your whole team was ranged DPS of course your going to destroy them. Secondly smash is not ok the way it is. When you have a class so simple to play with insane damage that encourages a class imbalance it is not ok. I am not saying kill the class just 1 change can bring it inline.

[ErikGW]

Dam near your whole team was ranged DPS of course your going to destroy them. Secondly smash is not ok the way it is. When you have a class so simple to play with insane damage that encourages a class imbalance it is not ok. I am not saying kill the class just 1 change can bring it inline.

 

So you want smashers to be nerfed to the point of the two melee stealth setups owning them? That's all i can conclude since every other class can be effective outside the smash radius.

 

Key point, melee STEALTH class. They arent intended to brawl it out with smashers.

[L-RANDLE]

Dam near your whole team was ranged DPS of course your going to destroy them. Secondly smash is not ok the way it is. When you have a class so simple to play with insane damage that encourages a class imbalance it is not ok. I am not saying kill the class just 1 change can bring it inline.

 

With healing the way it is right now, smash is fine. Other DPS classes have issues because they don't come close to countering healing. This is why there is imbalance...

[sithBracer]

With healing the way it is right now, smash is fine. Other DPS classes have issues because they don't come close to countering healing. This is why there is imbalance...

 

oh god, not another ops is OP QQ.

 

What exactly is wrong with healing now? Is it the 1300 heal per tick of kolto probes? Or is it the the 3k surgical probe which can only be spammed when a person is under 30% (how much does vicious throw take again?). Is it the channeled kolto infusion which heals for 5-6k? Oh wait it's that magic roll that heals for 1 bajillion, costs almost nothing., mezzes everyone around you for 1 hour unless they are hit during that time in which case they are turned into a chicken and must dance for the rest of the duel. Yup its the healing.

[HexDecimalUK]

oh god, not another ops is OP QQ.

 

What exactly is wrong with healing now? Is it the 1300 heal per tick of kolto probes? Or is it the the 3k surgical probe which can only be spammed when a person is under 30% (how much does vicious throw take again?). Is it the channeled kolto infusion which heals for 5-6k? Oh wait it's that magic roll that heals for 1 bajillion, costs almost nothing., mezzes everyone around you for 1 hour unless they are hit during that time in which case they are turned into a chicken and must dance for the rest of the duel. Yup its the healing.

 

lol i think my op is doing it wrong then XD

[L-RANDLE]

oh god, not another ops is OP QQ.

 

What exactly is wrong with healing now? Is it the 1300 heal per tick of kolto probes? Or is it the the 3k surgical probe which can only be spammed when a person is under 30% (how much does vicious throw take again?). Is it the channeled kolto infusion which heals for 5-6k? Oh wait it's that magic roll that heals for 1 bajillion, costs almost nothing., mezzes everyone around you for 1 hour unless they are hit during that time in which case they are turned into a chicken and must dance for the rest of the duel. Yup its the healing.

 

When HPS out paces DPS by 2:1. Its not limited to lolrollers either. The whole joke about heal to full is based on the fact that DPS Sages have NEVER had the the burst to make anyone pay. This is why there are only a few specs played in WZs, hence imbalance. And yes, OPs are OP'd against all but maybe two DPS specs, and those are in one AC.

Edited August 30, 2013 by L-RANDLE

[sithBracer]

When HPS out paces DPS by 2:1. Its not limited to lolrollers either. The whole joke about heal to full is based on the fact that DPS Sages have NEVER had the the burst to make anyone pay. This is why there are only a few specs played in WZs, hence imbalance. And yes, OPs are OP'd against all but maybe two DPS specs, and those are in one AC.

 

HPS is outpacing DPS by 2:1 ... ok keep dreaming. I don't know of any dps that do only 650 per tick (per TICK btw not per GCD), nor do I know any dps who only hurt for 1500 with their strongest moves. Vicious throw takes like 8k, smash takes over 9k, ravage takes ... a whole lot, then we have force scream, saber throw, force charge. Not enough? How about an AOE slow you can cast anytime you want no charge (to take care of the lolrollers), an AOE mezz, force choke, force push stun, force crush, obliterate. Yeah all those things must take like what? 600? Yup 2:1 right there (and yeah I l know I was talking about the jugg but that's the one I'm more familiar with ).

 

And the joke about the heal to full has nothing to do with burst damage. The original request was for some better defensive abilities. The biggest complaint about the sorc dps/healer is that they are too squishy and their moves require cast time making them easy to interrupt. When a sorc is left to free cast they actually do very heavy damage if not interrupted.

[Heal-To-Full]

What exactly is wrong with healing now? Is it the 1300 heal per tick of kolto probes? Or is it the the 3k surgical probe which can only be spammed when a person is under 30% (how much does vicious throw take again?). Is it the channeled kolto infusion which heals for 5-6k?

All of the above, when spread around the team and cross-heals are used, making the team virtually invulnerable.

 

I kinda enjoy playing tank or DPS with three healers on my team, it's just like a story mode raid: you DPS away and don't worry about damage.

 

Someone shooting missiles at me? Go overheat, I'll get back to you later. Orbital Strike? Oh I'm so gonna cry. Sin swinging his stick around? Hey, cheerleader squad has arrived. Smasher? Well, as long as I'm not standing next to anyone.

 

But it's no fun on the other end of this, when you and your buddy keep hitting someone and he's just not getting hurt. Unless you're both smashers, they you can at least make them react defensively to your twin AOE.

At the end of the match, you read 1 million in damage and 1 kill.

Edited August 30, 2013 by B-Dick

[Heal-To-Full]

HPS is outpacing DPS by 2:1 ... ok keep dreaming. I don't know of any dps that do only 650 per tick (per TICK btw not per GCD), nor do I know any dps who only hurt for 1500 with their strongest moves. Vicious throw takes like 8k, smash takes over 9k, ravage takes ... a whole lot, then we have force scream, saber throw, force charge. Not enough? How about an AOE slow you can cast anytime you want no charge (to take care of the lolrollers), an AOE mezz, force choke, force push stun, force crush, obliterate. Yeah all those things must take like what? 600? Yup 2:1 right there (and yeah I l know I was talking about the jugg but that's the one I'm more familiar with ).

 

And the joke about the heal to full has nothing to do with burst damage. The original request was for some better defensive abilities. The biggest complaint about the sorc dps/healer is that they are too squishy and their moves require cast time making them easy to interrupt. When a sorc is left to free cast they actually do very heavy damage if not interrupted.

Don't look at the abilities, look at the match leaderboard.

 

For DPS, 600k is considered just right and 1M+ is good DPS in a good match. Healers are over 1M normally and 2M+ in good matches.

[sithBracer]

All of the above, when spread around the team and cross-heals are used, making the team virtually invulnerable.

 

I kinda enjoy playing tank or DPS with two healers on my team, it's just like a story mode raid: you DPS away and don't worry about damage.

 

Someone shooting missiles at me? Go overheat, I'll get back to you later. Orbital Strike? Oh I'm so gonna cry. Sin swinging his stick around? Hey, cheerleader squad has arrived. Smasher? Well, as long as I'm not standing next to anyone.

 

But it's no fun on the other end of this, when you and your buddy keep hitting someone and he's just not getting hurt. Unless you're both smashers, they you can at least make them react defensively to your twin AOE.

 

You must be facing the pugs I keep getting o my team who only have 2100 main stat and 1600 expertise, who keep forgetting to buff up after they are killed. Or you are facing a team of tanks/healers.

 

Try facing against someone in full conquerors left side, full partisan right side, fully augmented and with a prototype nano stim, you probably will not say the same things (unless you have decent tanks properly taunting). Don't even get me started on a full min/maxed conqueror.

 

And if they are attacking you instead of the the healer, then I can see the problem (unless you are tank and guarding one of them).

[L-RANDLE]

HPS is outpacing DPS by 2:1 ... ok keep dreaming. I don't know of any dps that do only 650 per tick (per TICK btw not per GCD), nor do I know any dps who only hurt for 1500 with their strongest moves. Vicious throw takes like 8k, smash takes over 9k, ravage takes ... a whole lot, then we have force scream, saber throw, force charge. Not enough? How about an AOE slow you can cast anytime you want no charge (to take care of the lolrollers), an AOE mezz, force choke, force push stun, force crush, obliterate. Yeah all those things must take like what? 600? Yup 2:1 right there (and yeah I l know I was talking about the jugg but that's the one I'm more familiar with ).

 

And the joke about the heal to full has nothing to do with burst damage. The original request was for some better defensive abilities. The biggest complaint about the sorc dps/healer is that they are too squishy and their moves require cast time making them easy to interrupt. When a sorc is left to free cast they actually do very heavy damage if not interrupted.

Its a pretty simple concept. Take a look at leaderboards see where top DPS and top HPS is. It will give you a general idea where it is falling. No DPS classes are topping 3M. So stick ur head in the sand all you want, when you factor in the healing pace in an average WZ, Smash is REQUIRED because other DPS sucks that bad. Smash is a easymode spec to counter easymode healing...

Edited August 30, 2013 by L-RANDLE

[sithBracer]

Don't look at the abilities, look at the match leaderboard.

 

For DPS, 600k is considered just right and 1M+ is good DPS in a good match. Healers are over 1M normally and 2M+ in good matches.

 

What leaderboard are you talking about? 2M+ is a good match? 2M+ means the other team completely ignored healers and let them free cast-if that is what you call a "good match". When I'm left to free cast I average close to or over 1M as well (while doing objectives even-with both sorc and op btw. I usually get more on my sorc than with my op mostly because I play around too much on my op in free cast situations). When I am targetted properly unless I have a good tank to guard me .... its not even close to that much.

 

Also I watch quite a few streams and I rarely see 1M heals and I never saw 2M.

 

Also remember that there will probably be more dps than healers to spit the damage.

 

You guys take that stupid leader board too seriously.

Edited August 30, 2013 by sithBracer

[L-RANDLE]

What leaderboard are you talking about? 2M+ is a good match? 2M+ means the other team completely ignored healers and let them free cast-if that is what you call a "good match". When I'm left to free cast I average close to or over 1M as well (while doing objectives even-with both sorc and op btw. I usually get more on my sorc than with my op mostly because I play around too much on my op in free cast situations). When I am targetted properly unless I have a good tank to guard me .... its not even close to that much.

 

Also I watch quite a few streams and I rarely see 1M heals and I never saw 2M.

 

You guys take that stupid leader board too seriously.

Are we playing the same game? Yes the board does matter.. It shows output... That is what we are talking about here OUTPUT.

 

You have a problem with Smash output, but not healing output? LOL ok..

Edited August 30, 2013 by L-RANDLE

[Heal-To-Full]

Also I watch quite a few streams and I rarely see 1M heals and I never saw 2M.

Have you considered less watching and more playing?

1M heals happens almost every match.

 

As for what healers can pull in a long match, see this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsLo_LlxDqQ

This is 3.4 million legitimate heals, although at only 2k hps.

 

You guys take that stupid leader board too seriously.

We know exactly what it means. With regard to player skill, very little. But with regard to numbers, everything.

 

 

Let me remind you how it used to be.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=271614

He broke 1 million? Must be a cheater... Wait, he was a cheater - actually had to run in fire and heal himself with extra help from the environment.

[sithBracer]

Have you considered less watching and more playing?

1M heals happens almost every match.

 

I play more than enough with more than one character.

 

Have you considered less watching and more playing?

As for what healers can pull in a long match, see this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsLo_LlxDqQ

This is 3.4 million legitimate heals, although at only 2k hps.

 

That video made me laugh. He wasn't guarded the the highest damage he took on average was 3.5k. I wish I faced that team every day. unfortunately the teams I face either let us cap in the first 10 seconds or target healers for roots and mutliple attacks. If I'm not rooted at least 3 times in a row (In a row, not in a match) and attacked by at least 2 melee and 1 ranged it's a good day for me. And the reason he got so much is because it was basically a death match. No one was range capping, no on stealth capped the others node. They were all just fighting in the middle for what seemed like forever.

 

We know exactly what it means. With regard to player skill, very little. But with regard to numbers, everything.

 

Good for you, you can count (had to get you back for that playing remark), but what do you mean everything? So in your video's case, the damage dealers were pretty cr*ppy, and the healer was easily able to keep up with damage, no one capped and he got a high number and somehow this proves what? That the dps need to augment? that they need better gear? that they need to stim up? that they need to focus target? that they need to target the healer? Cause it definitely doesn't prove that healing is overpowered.

 

Let me remind you how it used to be.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=271614

He broke 1 million? Must be a cheater... Wait, he was a cheater - actually had to run in fire and heal himself with extra help from the environment.

 

Yeah back when players had what? 15-20k hp? when 2000 main stat was considered awesome? Nowadays tanks can have over 40k hp and its normal for decently geared players to have 3000+ main stat; not exactly the same as it used to be. I'm sure dps numbers are higher as well.