Vigilance or Focus

[Baron_Blackhack]

Hi Everyone!!!

 

I just rolled a dps guardian and would like to ask for your inputs as to what skill tree is ok for pve content? I read the vigilance guide however there is none for focus.

 

Many thanks

[Riivan]

Either spec works but for maximum single target pve dps you want to go vigilance.

[Vecte]

Either spec works but for maximum single target pve dps you want to go vigilance.

 

In a perfect world Vigilance will out perform Focus on single target. However, Focus is every bit Vigilance's equal. Vigilance gets the upper hand from MS procs, which can be a roll of the dice sometimes. Vigilance also has a lot more procs to manage, and a slightly more involved rotation. It also requires a bit of focus management. I'm not downing the spec, just pointing out the truths.

 

On the other hand, Focus is much more forgiving. It's one of the simplest rotations in the game, and you will find yourself with an abundance of focus at times. There is no dot management or proc management with Focus. You have two procs and both are guaranteed. Focus easily matches Vigilance DPS, and is capable of outperforming it. The big thing that will determine which is better for you is player skill and PvE setting.

[Dragonexadon]

Hi Everyone!!!

 

I just rolled a dps guardian and would like to ask for your inputs as to what skill tree is ok for pve content? I read the vigilance guide however there is none for focus.

 

Many thanks

There is no guide for Focus because, as stated above, it's so simple! Build up singularity and sweep. I really enjoy Focus for PVP. High output aoe damage on demand.

 

I still believe vigilance is your best bet for PVE. The rotation, while more complex, is not bad at all. It's a nice cross between a burn and proc spec. I believe on the leader boards Vigilant spec DPS are outputing more on boss fights than sweep spec.

 

That said it is always fun to switch back and forth. Doing adds is a blast on focus spec.

[wadecounty]

Focus is competitive with Vigilance. That said, I'd highly suggest if you're serious about PvEing with your Guardian that you at least learn how to play well in Vigilance, as it has the higher damage potential of the 2 specs.

 

Also, if changes are made to either spec, I would imagine Vigilance has a better chance to be buffed, while Focus may see a slight nerf thanks to PvP.

[Vecte]

Focus is competitive with Vigilance. That said, I'd highly suggest if you're serious about PvEing with your Guardian that you at least learn how to play well in Vigilance, as it has the higher damage potential of the 2 specs.

 

Also, if changes are made to either spec, I would imagine Vigilance has a better chance to be buffed, while Focus may see a slight nerf thanks to PvP.

 

I'm sorry, but I despise posts like this. Telling someone to use one spec over another if they want to be serious is just stupid. Some of the best PvE DPS Guardians run as Focus. The actual difference in damage between Vigilance and Focus is less than 100 DPS. This is LESS than 1%. That difference is also determined purely by RNG. This means that Vigilance may not always be consistently better than Focus.

 

Another huge factor are the encounters one will face. Vigilance is hindered by high movement fights, and fights that require a good bit of target switching, such as Operator IX for example. In fights like this, the raw damage from Focus always comes out on top. Vigilance's true power comes from being able to sit and beat on a target for an extended period, without too much interruption.

 

Lastly, your final comment about buffs/nerfs is completely unfounded. Guardians aren't even being considered until October, so everything at this point is blind speculation.

 

To the OP: Try both specs out, you may find you like one better than the other. Also, no matter which spec you choose, you WILL be competitive in PvE.

Edited August 29, 2013 by Vecte

[wadecounty]

I'm sorry, but I despise posts like this. Telling someone to use one spec over another if they want to be serious is just stupid. Some of the best PvE DPS Guardians run as Focus. The actual difference in damage between Vigilance and Focus is less than 100 DPS. This is LESS than 1%. That difference is also determined purely by RNG. This means that Vigilance may not always be consistently better than Focus.

 

Another huge factor are the encounters one will face. Vigilance is hindered by high movement fights, and fights that require a good bit of target switching, such as Operator IX for example. In fights like this, the raw damage from Focus always comes out on top. Vigilance's true power comes from being able to sit and beat on a target for an extended period, without too much interruption.

 

Lastly, your final comment about buffs/nerfs is completely unfounded. Guardians aren't even being considered until October, so everything at this point is blind speculation.

 

To the OP: Try both specs out, you may find you like one better than the other. Also, no matter which spec you choose, you WILL be competitive in PvE.

 

I didn't tell OP to use one or the other, I said to learn Vigilance, as Focus is very intuitive while Vigilance takes practice to get an optimal rotation down. It generally takes people very little time to learn Focus as a spec. I'm a proponent of being well rounded, simply stating that it will take more work to get the Vigilance part of the combo down, I've never met someone who couldn't figure out Focus in a day or two.

 

So I despise your gross overreaction to my comment.

 

Also, the buff/nerf comment is made in reference to where the class balance may eventually shift, there's no reason not to at least consider that. Atm, Focus is a little too good in PvP and probably too good in PvE as well compared to where Vigilance sits (even beating out a well played Vigilance Guardian that has bad luck on Zen Strike procs in single target damage), and the Guardian/Juggernaut questions are going to address this balance issue.

Edited August 29, 2013 by wadecounty

[Riivan]

Play whichever for sure, but you're deluding yourself if you think focus is better single target. Even in ops. Op IX works just as well as vigi if not better because you don't have to deal with the core sweep bug.

 

Not appreciative of your tone either.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Riivan

[Draqsko]

I'm sorry, but I despise posts like this. Telling someone to use one spec over another if they want to be serious is just stupid. Some of the best PvE DPS Guardians run as Focus. The actual difference in damage between Vigilance and Focus is less than 100 DPS. This is LESS than 1%. That difference is also determined purely by RNG. This means that Vigilance may not always be consistently better than Focus.

 

Another huge factor are the encounters one will face. Vigilance is hindered by high movement fights, and fights that require a good bit of target switching, such as Operator IX for example. In fights like this, the raw damage from Focus always comes out on top. Vigilance's true power comes from being able to sit and beat on a target for an extended period, without too much interruption.

 

Lastly, your final comment about buffs/nerfs is completely unfounded. Guardians aren't even being considered until October, so everything at this point is blind speculation.

 

To the OP: Try both specs out, you may find you like one better than the other. Also, no matter which spec you choose, you WILL be competitive in PvE.

 

Not true, Focus really only becomes better with lots of adds, that Vigilance cannot handle as well since Vig is basically single target while Focus can down adds like crazy but is limited in actual boss fight. Vigilance also has way better focus management than Focus does. Everything that costs focus costs 1 less focus than normal, sweep is a focus generator, your big hitter is focus free on a reset proc that adds focus, and for movement intensive fights your dots keep ticking away even after you move away from your target. The dots can also proc Dispatch to use for free at any health level, which Focus never gets until <30% hp remaining, and proc instant crit on Bladestorm.

 

So when there's a single target that absolutely must be downed quickly, Vigilance is the spec to do it. When there's lots of adds or trash to kill, Focus is the spec to do it. Both will suffer nearly equally on fights where you have to move away from the target, though Vigilance may get a Dispatch proc from previously applied burns. Don't know where you get that movement hinders Vigilance, it doesn't since there is no setup involved. In fact, Op IX fight is one of those that I score top DPS in the raid because it's just a string of single targets, switching targets is never an issue.

 

To OP, honestly, I'd say learn both, buy the field respec, and use appropriately for what you will be fighting. Add heavy fights or trash pulls, use Focus, where there is basically one target, use Vigilance. On boss fights, you'll mostly be using Vigilance unless your raid group is seriously lacking in AOEs to deal with adds in a timely fashion.

[Marb]

Not true, Focus really only becomes better with lots of adds, that Vigilance cannot handle as well since Vig is basically single target while Focus can down adds like crazy but is limited in actual boss fight. Vigilance also has way better focus management than Focus does. Everything that costs focus costs 1 less focus than normal, sweep is a focus generator, your big hitter is focus free on a reset proc that adds focus, and for movement intensive fights your dots keep ticking away even after you move away from your target. The dots can also proc Dispatch to use for free at any health level, which Focus never gets until <30% hp remaining, and proc instant crit on Bladestorm.

 

So when there's a single target that absolutely must be downed quickly, Vigilance is the spec to do it. When there's lots of adds or trash to kill, Focus is the spec to do it. Both will suffer nearly equally on fights where you have to move away from the target, though Vigilance may get a Dispatch proc from previously applied burns. Don't know where you get that movement hinders Vigilance, it doesn't since there is no setup involved. In fact, Op IX fight is one of those that I score top DPS in the raid because it's just a string of single targets, switching targets is never an issue.

 

To OP, honestly, I'd say learn both, buy the field respec, and use appropriately for what you will be fighting. Add heavy fights or trash pulls, use Focus, where there is basically one target, use Vigilance. On boss fights, you'll mostly be using Vigilance unless your raid group is seriously lacking in AOEs to deal with adds in a timely fashion.

The point is that focus is competitive with vigilance even on a single target.

 

Vigi requires you to use ravage and apply your bleeds up front. This is where it falls down with heavy movement or target switching. If vigi wasn't so reliable on RnG and wasn't punished so much for target switching and moving, focus wouldn't even be considered for operations. Focus requires no set up, has no bleeds, and can ignore ravage if movement or multiple targets are a priority.

 

Focus just provides reliable and consistent damage with full mobility, which means in an actual boss fight, focus can often outperform vigilance regardless of the number of targets involved.

 

But keeping that in mind, I agree that you should still learn and feel comfortable with both specs, so you can respec on the spot to best match the encounter type. Operator being a prime example.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Marb

[Vecte]

Not true, Focus really only becomes better with lots of adds, that Vigilance cannot handle as well since Vig is basically single target while Focus can down adds like crazy but is limited in actual boss fight. Vigilance also has way better focus management than Focus does. Everything that costs focus costs 1 less focus than normal, sweep is a focus generator, your big hitter is focus free on a reset proc that adds focus, and for movement intensive fights your dots keep ticking away even after you move away from your target. The dots can also proc Dispatch to use for free at any health level, which Focus never gets until <30% hp remaining, and proc instant crit on Bladestorm.

 

So when there's a single target that absolutely must be downed quickly, Vigilance is the spec to do it. When there's lots of adds or trash to kill, Focus is the spec to do it. Both will suffer nearly equally on fights where you have to move away from the target, though Vigilance may get a Dispatch proc from previously applied burns. Don't know where you get that movement hinders Vigilance, it doesn't since there is no setup involved. In fact, Op IX fight is one of those that I score top DPS in the raid because it's just a string of single targets, switching targets is never an issue.

 

To OP, honestly, I'd say learn both, buy the field respec, and use appropriately for what you will be fighting. Add heavy fights or trash pulls, use Focus, where there is basically one target, use Vigilance. On boss fights, you'll mostly be using Vigilance unless your raid group is seriously lacking in AOEs to deal with adds in a timely fashion.

 

Vigilance does NOT manage focus better than the actual Focus spec. Vigilance uses much more focus overall, despite the procs. With a proper rotation in Focus, you will always have an abundance of focus.

 

What makes Vigilance such a damaging spec are the Master Strike and Dispatch procs, both of which are RNG. Dispatch has to proc off the burns, which means you need a 100% up time if possible. Master Strike also requires you to be stationary to perform. Vigilance is not forgiving on heavy movement and target switching fights, no matter how you look at it.

 

There also seems to be some misconception that Focus is only competitive when AoE is involved. This is NOT true by any means. Focus matches Vigilance in single target damage, all day long. When AoE is involved, Focus skyrockets ahead. The only time Vigilance is able to eek out that less than 1% advantage is if the RNG stars align, and you are able to stay stationary for a good amount of time. A good fight for Vigilance is Styrak. There is a lot going on, but there is not much movement overall, and there is enough time for a Vigilance Guardian to proc ahead. Golden Fury is another great example where a Vigilance Guardian can have the advantage. Even if you do choose Focus for a fight like Styrak or Golden Fury, you are going to see a less than 1% difference.

 

The OP needs to play both and see what he/she likes. Both specs are nearly identical in DPS. Choosing one over the other will never hinder them.

Edited August 30, 2013 by Vecte

[Dragonexadon]

The OP needs to play both and see what he/she likes. Both specs are nearly identical in DPS. Choosing one over the other will never hinder them.

 

It really depends on the fight clearly. Overall though I agree. After looking more in depth at torparse.com the numbers are pretty close.

 

I would say with bosses that allow you to stand still more, like TC, vigilance has a clear edge.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/359579/13

[Pyymm]

Ahhh the age old question. I prefer Vig. Great animations. But really, it's up to you.

[OlosBC]

It really depends on the fight clearly. Overall though I agree. After looking more in depth at torparse.com the numbers are pretty close.

 

I would say with bosses that allow you to stand still more, like TC, vigilance has a clear edge.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/359579/13

 

On tc you can just put focus on adds. Movement to boss after adds die is not an issue with leap, and when (not much if about it) you pull agro, saber reflect gives time for tank to get it back. plus gleap if you need to get out of mid in a hurry.D

 

My main question with focus regards set bonuses. On a stationary fight, 2pc sent set makes sense. On heavy movement, 4 PC vindi makes sense. I've never felt the need to use saber throw in melee range as focus though, just swimming in focus for days. Is there any other set bonus worth picking up?

[Vecte]

On tc you can just put focus on adds. Movement to boss after adds die is not an issue with leap, and when (not much if about it) you pull agro, saber reflect gives time for tank to get it back. plus gleap if you need to get out of mid in a hurry.D

 

My main question with focus regards set bonuses. On a stationary fight, 2pc sent set makes sense. On heavy movement, 4 PC vindi makes sense. I've never felt the need to use saber throw in melee range as focus though, just swimming in focus for days. Is there any other set bonus worth picking up?

 

As Focus,Saber Throw should always be first priority. It does high damage and generates free focus. It always needs to be on cool down.

 

You have it right about the set bonuses. Good majority of fights you will use the 4pc. You can even choose to use it on all fights and it be beneficial. However, on the stationary ones like GF and Styrak, where DPS is a race, 2pc/2pc is the way to go.

[OlosBC]

As Focus,Saber Throw should always be first priority. It does high damage and generates free focus. It always needs to be on cool down.

 

You have it right about the set bonuses. Good majority of fights you will use the 4pc. You can even choose to use it on all fights and it be beneficial However, on the stationary ones like GF and Styrak, where DPS is a race, 2pc/2pc is the way to go.

 

Im still sorta new to focus, but I really don't have resource problems at all. I think I've used strike all of like 3 times, and each was because of using enraged defense. Extra focus is really not an issue. I can use slash basically at will to fill in vetween everything else, and it does more damage than throw.