cub-lover Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 im so sick an tired of seeing posts and in genral chat about dps ops/scoudnrels are not viable for pvp, how are they not viable, yeah their not as flashy as smash monkies or as much in your face as a shadow is Dirty fighting best spe for ops/scoun sharp bomb/corrosive grenade hits 5 people and dots them, vital shot/ corrosive dart can be applied to as many people as you want and better yet when both of these end they leave a slightly weaker version fo them selves on the targets dealing even more damage, Cull/ wounding shot deals damage per bleed/poison effect on the target Hemraging shot/ weakenign blast deals how ever much damage and increases the damage delt by your dots so long as you keep sharp bomb and corrosive grenade up your doing more sustained damage than a smash monky or a shadow/sin scrapper/ concealment is a bit more burst but harder to do well on since most of the damage revovles around lacerate/sucker punch so long as your able to keep your combat stealth free, youll be fine in most 1v1 and even 1v2 situations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterFeign Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 im so sick an tired of seeing posts and in genral chat about dps ops/scoudnrels are not viable for pvp, how are they not viable, yeah their not as flashy as smash monkies or as much in your face as a shadow is Dirty fighting best spe for ops/scoun sharp bomb/corrosive grenade hits 5 people and dots them, vital shot/ corrosive dart can be applied to as many people as you want and better yet when both of these end they leave a slightly weaker version fo them selves on the targets dealing even more damage, Cull/ wounding shot deals damage per bleed/poison effect on the target Hemraging shot/ weakenign blast deals how ever much damage and increases the damage delt by your dots so long as you keep sharp bomb and corrosive grenade up your doing more sustained damage than a smash monky or a shadow/sin scrapper/ concealment is a bit more burst but harder to do well on since most of the damage revovles around lacerate/sucker punch so long as your able to keep your combat stealth free, youll be fine in most 1v1 and even 1v2 situations The issue with leathality however is not the dps, but being able to mez the enemy. Unlike madness, the DOTs cannot be controlled. So another teammate tries to mez the healer, but the healer is dotted so they break out of their mez anyway. With that being said however, yesterday I ran a tankassin (with dps gear), deception assassin, ops healer and leathality ops group, and we won a good majority of our games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cub-lover Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 The issue with leathality however is not the dps, but being able to mez the enemy. Unlike madness, the DOTs cannot be controlled. So another teammate tries to mez the healer, but the healer is dotted so they break out of their mez anyway. With that being said however, yesterday I ran a tankassin (with dps gear), deception assassin, ops healer and leathality ops group, and we won a good majority of our games. well theirs a talanti n the tree witch alot of people dont take wich stops the dots from ticking on people under CC's alot of peopel dont take it and go for extra CD reduction:rak_01: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterFeign Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 well theirs a talanti n the tree witch alot of people dont take wich stops the dots from ticking on people under CC's alot of peopel dont take it and go for extra CD reduction:rak_01: Ah that's true, I forgot about that talent. For the sake of it, I also want to test out assassin madness in the arenas, heh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godlymuppet Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 well theirs a talanti n the tree witch alot of people dont take wich stops the dots from ticking on people under CC's alot of peopel dont take it and go for extra CD reduction:rak_01: That only applies to your own cc. Not other people's. I agree that dirty fighting scoundrels can do huge Dps though, I break 700k (with most killing blows) on mine quite a lot. Very few do more damage than me in a wz. But shhhhh, no one expects the back end burst, keep it that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupidsyrup Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Can't speak as a 55 but my level 26 Concealment Op kicks major *** in PvP. Top 3 even in losing games on the board overall. I really enjoy and as a sorta mirror, on my Marksman (both Concealment and Marksman are bursty) I will out damage a Lethality/Dirty Fighter. It's so FOTM right now it makes me NOT want to play it. And who in the hell doesn't put those points into your DoT's not breaking a Mez?? That's insane! Even I would do that! Too many people want to see fluff damage on the charts. I consider it the cheaters way to DPS'ing, right under smasher. tldr: Concealment is boss, anyone who disagrees just can't play that class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SajPl Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Can't speak as a 55 but my level 26 Concealment Op kicks major *** in PvP. Top 3 even in losing games on the board overall. I really enjoy and as a sorta mirror, on my Marksman (both Concealment and Marksman are bursty) I will out damage a Lethality/Dirty Fighter. It's so FOTM right now it makes me NOT want to play it. And who in the hell doesn't put those points into your DoT's not breaking a Mez?? That's insane! Even I would do that! Too many people want to see fluff damage on the charts. I consider it the cheaters way to DPS'ing, right under smasher. tldr: Concealment is boss, anyone who disagrees just can't play that class. There is no way a concealment ops can outdps a lethality one, unless the lethality guy is licking his monitor i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter_Mathis Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Survivability /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravashakk Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 (edited) Can't speak as a 55 but my level 26 Concealment Op kicks major *** in PvP. Top 3 even in losing games on the board overall. I really enjoy and as a sorta mirror, on my Marksman (both Concealment and Marksman are bursty) I will out damage a Lethality/Dirty Fighter. It's so FOTM right now it makes me NOT want to play it. And who in the hell doesn't put those points into your DoT's not breaking a Mez?? That's insane! Even I would do that! Too many people want to see fluff damage on the charts. I consider it the cheaters way to DPS'ing, right under smasher. tldr: Concealment is boss, anyone who disagrees just can't play that class. Lethality more Fotm than medicine? Lmao ok And for the record, concealment is the worst of the three specs. Edited August 17, 2013 by Ravashakk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godlymuppet Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Can't speak as a 55 but my level 26 Concealment Op kicks major *** in PvP. Top 3 even in losing games on the board overall. I really enjoy and as a sorta mirror, on my Marksman (both Concealment and Marksman are bursty) I will out damage a Lethality/Dirty Fighter. It's so FOTM right now it makes me NOT want to play it. And who in the hell doesn't put those points into your DoT's not breaking a Mez?? That's insane! Even I would do that! Too many people want to see fluff damage on the charts. I consider it the cheaters way to DPS'ing, right under smasher. tldr: Concealment is boss, anyone who disagrees just can't play that class. The only thing that you say that is relevant, is in the first sentence It all changes at max level. Observations pre max level don't tell you anything. My scoundrel has been my main so cs pre order, I would dearly like conceal to be good at max level, but it's not as good as DF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraaxusKun Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 My main is an operative. I love lethality, it has very good sustained damage, and 3 culls in a row are devastating, the free kolto infusion from roll is also very good. Concealment is also very good at bursting when you do it right. HOWEVER, deception assassin does the same thing and is even better. Concealment can off heal and throw down an orbital and flashbang, but it seriously needs a bit better survivability. Proof: http://www.twitch.tv/conejellos/c/2766647 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godlymuppet Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 My main is an operative. I love lethality, it has very good sustained damage, and 3 culls in a row are devastating, the free kolto infusion from roll is also very good. Concealment is also very good at bursting when you do it right. HOWEVER, deception assassin does the same thing and is even better. Concealment can off heal and throw down an orbital and flashbang, but it seriously needs a bit better survivability. Proof: http://www.twitch.tv/conejellos/c/2766647 With a pungency thrown in and pistol whip, it's five culls in six gcds. I think that's probably the highest burst in the game right now. One thing a lot of haters of lethality don't understand, is that backend burst is more useful than upfront, partially due to the free heal spam that heal scoundrels can do, at low hit points. Now the heal spec is defiantly fotm. So much so it feels like trolling. I can top all heal charts while not using a single cast time ability all game, never stopping running around, while getting quite a few killing blows with well timed back blasts. It's fun but oh so cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordnathanial Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Concealment is also very good at bursting when you do it right. HOWEVER, deception assassin does the same thing and is even better. Concealment can off heal and throw down an orbital and flashbang, but it seriously needs a bit better survivability. Proof: http://www.twitch.tv/conejellos/c/2766647 So the operatives can heal but need to be able to survive as good as the assassin who cannot heal? Could that be the tradeoff between the two. Perhaps the Sins initial burst is a bit better (debatable) but the Ops/Scounds have healing and better CCs with orbital. Just my opinion I think they are both equally good specs with different strengths and weaknesses. And yes I have a 50 scoundrel (I played him since launch and took a break before the level req went to 55 so I have played end game PvP on him) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godlymuppet Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 So the operatives can heal but need to be able to survive as good as the assassin who cannot heal? Could that be the tradeoff between the two. Perhaps the Sins initial burst is a bit better (debatable) but the Ops/Scounds have healing and better CCs with orbital. Just my opinion I think they are both equally good specs with different strengths and weaknesses. And yes I have a 50 scoundrel (I played him since launch and took a break before the level req went to 55 so I have played end game PvP on him) Pre 2.0 scrapper probably was the better Dps, but the buff to lethality, along with a large reduction in scrapers ability to crit, has switched that around at 55. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RougeBeaver Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Survivability /thread This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerogates Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Survivability /thread You are doing it wrong. /thread continued Godlymuppet is spot on with what I have noticed from a DF scoundrel as well. The wounding shots simply rips players apart and it is easy to maintain upperhand to use them as well. Surviving is simply a matter of mobility, and with the movement boost you should be faster than attackers and using your roll you can easily break LoS with players. You get a free heal from rolls occasionally, an effect which lasts a very long time, you have a good absorb buff with reduced cooldown, and you can keep players snared while using your main AOE tool. Utility, healing, survival, sustained damage, and burst damage. DoT scoundrel/Op is simply underrated and underplayed. Breaking mezzes on healers is not so much a concern, since the ones leaving the DoTs running on themselves are typically not very good or aware healers anyways, at which point I would simply burst him down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stupidsyrup Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 With a pungency thrown in and pistol whip, it's five culls in six gcds. I think that's probably the highest burst in the game right now. Yes let's see you get off a DoT to make Cull actually burst. And I'd also like to see you get off 5 Culls with no interruption. Op Lethality sucks. Sniper Lethality is much better, not being interrupted and not being Charged at. Now do tell, oh wise one, how a class can get worse the farther along it goes. Oh sure there's Bolster to "help" me, but like that really helps survivability. It might slightly gimp my DPS, but my I'll still be hitting 13+ Medals a game with 3- deaths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Godlymuppet Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 (edited) Yes let's see you get off a DoT to make Cull actually burst. And I'd also like to see you get off 5 Culls with no interruption. Op Lethality sucks. Sniper Lethality is much better, not being interrupted and not being Charged at. Now do tell, oh wise one, how a class can get worse the farther along it goes. Oh sure there's Bolster to "help" me, but like that really helps survivability. It might slightly gimp my DPS, but my I'll still be hitting 13+ Medals a game with 3- deaths. Not sure what your issue is mate. I PVP extensively on 2 characters, the other being my slinger, which is also frequently DF also, so I know how they compare better than anyone. We were discussing what is the best Dps spec for PVP for scoundrel, not slinger. For the record my slinger is normally about 100k ahead of my scoundrel. But I'm quite sure that I have frequently gotten off that many culls in a row before. I'd even go so far as to say DF is more fun on the scoundrel than the GS. Just to help you understand. The reason we loose power as scrapper is the steep dr curve on crit at max level. Added to all classes getting all their abilities, quite a few improve dramatically at later levels, which puts scrappers effective performance back massively. Edited August 17, 2013 by Godlymuppet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevMeup Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Lethality is pretty amazing. It's just a different playstyle then people are used to. Apply pressure to the whole team, then focus the heals that are messing up your good work It's a balance between the both. I think people just don't understand how to play it. It's also very different in pvp. In pve cull is 90% of your damage, in pvp it should be more like 30-40% in most matches. Lethality also works great with alacrity instead of accuracy. 2700 parse pve in heal set, usually top dps in wz with heal set. I'd be happy if they added a bit more survivability to lethality so I could get in there and cull all the time, but overall I can't dis the output I get right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerogates Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Yes let's see you get off a DoT to make Cull actually burst. And I'd also like to see you get off 5 Culls with no interruption. Op Lethality sucks. Sniper Lethality is much better, not being interrupted and not being Charged at. Now do tell, oh wise one, how a class can get worse the farther along it goes. Oh sure there's Bolster to "help" me, but like that really helps survivability. It might slightly gimp my DPS, but my I'll still be hitting 13+ Medals a game with 3- deaths. How do you interrupt Operative culls considering they are instant and only limited by a global cooldown? I have done DoT spec on my sniper and my scoundrel and I'm thinking you are not exactly sure how Op/scoundrel works in DoT spec. Not that it matters, if you are terrible at playing DoT spec builds then it's simply one less player using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gren-Aluren Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 OP is right. Survivability isn't that bad on DF because you aren't locked to 4m. In 4v4 I see no reason this spec won't be viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snave Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 I sincerely look forward to you all getting spots on arena teams and showing us how viable the class is. Simple fact, without some buffs and adjustments there is zero reason to bring an operative of either DPS spec over another class (assuming skill is equal). Making a fight 4v4 rather than 8v8 doesn't change that, seriously the amount of non 55 characters and people with no idea on how competitive PvP works in this thread is amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racter Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 So the operatives can heal but need to be able to survive as good as the assassin who cannot heal? Could that be the tradeoff between the two. Perhaps the Sins initial burst is a bit better (debatable) but the Ops/Scounds have healing and better CCs with orbital. Just my opinion I think they are both equally good specs with different strengths and weaknesses. And yes I have a 50 scoundrel (I played him since launch and took a break before the level req went to 55 so I have played end game PvP on him) Please, tell me more about how often you can get those 2.5s cast heals off. Even if they don't interrupt you and the heal crits you take more damage than the heal was worth. Can't flash bang and heal because everyone else is aoe/aoe dotting people constantly and your two defensive CDs melt immediately under any sort of ff. DPS ops won't be any more viable in arenas than 8v8s IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cub-lover Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 OP is right. Survivability isn't that bad on DF because you aren't locked to 4m. In 4v4 I see no reason this spec won't be viable. thank you, everyone is too conearned with seeing a pair of glowing *****s to notice an opertive /scoundril has pretty much wiped them out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cub-lover Posted August 17, 2013 Author Share Posted August 17, 2013 I sincerely look forward to you all getting spots on arena teams and showing us how viable the class is. Simple fact, without some buffs and adjustments there is zero reason to bring an operative of either DPS spec over another class (assuming skill is equal). Making a fight 4v4 rather than 8v8 doesn't change that, seriously the amount of non 55 characters and people with no idea on how competitive PvP works in this thread is amazing. i have three level 55 chearcters an anilation mara (yeah i know ani sucks) a healer merc (i out heal most sorcs n op/ soundrel healers) and i have a level 55 sin tank. im not saying the overall AC couldnt use some extra utility like a knock back or an AOE slow but other than that the dps of the op an scoundrel is fine its jsut people dont know how to play it properly nor want to learn how to, most only care about swinging around a pair of glow sticks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts