PT DPS Changes live on PTS and in 2.4 Patch Notes

[OnlyNameNotTaken]

Goodnight, sweet prince.

 

Dead class is dead. Move on. Roll a Sin. That's obviously what they want you to do.

[Rafe_Vidar]

Goodnight, sweet prince.

 

Dead class is dead. Move on. Roll a Sin. That's obviously what they want you to do.

 

I was going to hear your QQ out but then you said to roll a Sin. Are you oblivious to their current state as worst XX for XX? Seriously. Sure Pyro just added another nail to its coffin, but AP is presentable in OPS and situational via damage support for WZs and the tanking position this class is in is leagues better than the RNG death that Sins have. I've been playing both classes for some time, Assassin is pretty much a dead class. In pvp IF they get lucky RNG deception can deliver substantial damage, if they don't any new player with half a brain can take them out. Sadness (Madness) is worse off than your "sky-is-falling" pyro. So don't over dramatize.

 

In closing, I'm quite excited to see how AP was made better, since I'm a big fan of 36 AP but currently strolling in 2/22/22. I hope to swap back to full AP soon as soon as the ap/hybrid gap closes a bit.

[Melon_Lord]

AP

Immolate did receive a fairly substantial buff, criticals on the Ops Dummy went from about 7k to around 8.2.

I have to say though I don't like how RB does about 700 damage less and now ticks every 3 seconds instead of every second, sure we have bigger numbers now but should it get cleansed during pvp you might not do any damage at all.

Lastly, I'm happy with flamethrower, sure it does about 150 less at 3 stacks, but it does so much more.

 

Pyro

What were they thinking? Yay TD buff but the other two changes are baffling and don't help at all. Any pure pyro shouldn't have trouble using IM as the dot wears off so the nerf to damage was just uncalled for.

Fist of catch people on fire when an actual fireball doesn't = fail

 

It's clear they want Pyro to do more fluff damage with the heat reduction to IM in addition to reducing the damage. I admit RB is rather strong at 16 heat and far surpasses IM in damage to heat ratio, so it probably needed a slight nerf; but instead of reducing the heat and damge of IM they should have upped the damage by 30-40% to make its damage in line with the cost. This could have been done through talents higher up to reduce the use of hybrids. Honestly I if they would just restore CGC, Rail Shot armor pen and TD (which they kind of did) this whole mess wouldn't be nearly as bad. The only thing pyro would complain about is lack of survivability.

 

We need a petition to give Pyro dots range of 30m. Why does the other hybrid melee/range class Lethality Operatives get 30m on their dots when they are more of a melee class than Pyro? They absolutely must be within 4m to shiv and proc TA so thay can Cull, while us PT, a more reliable ranged class can't dot people from further than 10m. Does this make sense?

Edited August 18, 2013 by Melon_Lord

[Yngow]

From what I can tell they are trying to make pyro the one and only pvp spec for the class, and failing miserably at it and also making it even worse for pve.

After seeing the reply for the sentinel class questions it came clear to me that the devs doesn't really design specs to be viable for anything, but each to be good at one thing (and bad at the other), the case here apparently is middle tree pve and pyro pvp, I guess anyone that likes pyro in pve should start learning prototype.

I want to check though how big is the improvement on burst for thermal detonator because that would be really useful in pvp, but the bursting flame change really seem to hurt pvp, not really because of the dot dmg since that is crappy dmg on pvp (specially before target gets to 30%) but because of the slow it inflicts on targets

[Ottoattack]

From what I can tell they are trying to make pyro the one and only pvp spec for the class, and failing miserably at it and also making it even worse for pve.

After seeing the reply for the sentinel class questions it came clear to me that the devs doesn't really design specs to be viable for anything, but each to be good at one thing (and bad at the other), the case here apparently is middle tree pve and pyro pvp, I guess anyone that likes pyro in pve should start learning prototype.

I want to check though how big is the improvement on burst for thermal detonator because that would be really useful in pvp, but the bursting flame change really seem to hurt pvp, not really because of the dot dmg since that is crappy dmg on pvp (specially before target gets to 30%) but because of the slow it inflicts on targets

 

The improvement is about 650 damage in the front damage. The dot was weakened by by about 500 damage. Pyro is currently not a PvP spec or a PvE spec (it can't compete in either). AP is much better in both. AP might be much more competitive in PvE but still the same for PvP, relying on a clunky channel that will 100% get stunned through.

Edited August 18, 2013 by Ottoattack

[ScytheEleven]

My proposed changes for Pyro/Assault:

 

1). Add Thermal Detonator/Assault Plastique to the list for Rain of Fire. This will increase it's base kinetic damage by 9% to burning targets, though it's DoT damage will NOT be affected by this.

 

2). Add a 6% critical chance to Thermal Detonator/Assault Plastique to Power Bracer/Riot Augs.

 

3). For every critical hit via a DoT, Automated Defenses/Adrenaline Fueled now heals the player for 1% of their total health. Still reduces the cooldown of Kolto Overload/Adrenaline Rush by 6 seconds every time you are attacked.

 

4). Incendiary Missile/Round now buffs the armor penetration of Rail Shot/High Impact Bolt by 15%, thus reaching pre-2.0 levels of 90% armor penetration.

 

5). Revert the changes to Bursting Flame/Ionized Ignition, but keep Rocket Punch/Stockstrike in the mix, albeit at the 45% chance to trigger your cell. So basically, Flameburst/Ion Pulse is a 100.02% proc chance, and Rocket Punch/Stockstrike is at 45%.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6671841#post6671841

[Chickensevil]

Based on my testing on a target dummy AP has the best burst, then 31 point pyro, then 36 point (TD) pyro. Why is it that going full tree STILL does not have the best burst? Pyro is SUPPOSED to be the burst spec... or at least... it used to be...

 

Part of what is helping AP burst (if you can get everything perfect) is the shoulder cannon. My basic opener is RB > 3stack FT > spam shoulder cannon while going through the rest of the rotation > Immolate > RP > RS > FB > FB

 

I mean sure that is 8 GCDs, but that is a TON of damage... compare that with the damage on pyro 36 points

 

IM > ED > TD > RS > RP > RS > FB > FB (with of course spamming shoulder cannon throughout)

 

There just isn't any comparison... the only real benefit to possibly running pyro at this point is that you are not as restricted down to be in melee range. But with the inherit speed gains for AP, I think mobility is still likely better. Course you also have to consider that you could be stopped mid FT cast or that IM gets cleansed... But because of the other points you pick up other trees for only going 31 points (or possibly 28) the IM > RS > RP > RS > FB combo hits much harder than ED and TD do making you actually do more damage in less GCDs... go figure...

[Brunner_Venda]

I see what you're saying. Problem is shoulder cannon is on a two minute CD. It's not a regular part of your rotation, and can't be, because it's down over 90% of the time.

 

I usually just use it to keep steady DPS while stunned. Heaven knows there is a silly amount of CC in this game as it is.

[Chickensevil]

I see what you're saying. Problem is shoulder cannon is on a two minute CD. It's not a regular part of your rotation, and can't be, because it's down over 90% of the time.

 

I usually just use it to keep steady DPS while stunned. Heaven knows there is a silly amount of CC in this game as it is.

 

Hrmmm perhaps you are right, I will try to check the burst minus shoulder cannon tonight if I get the time. I still think that FT is still just that strong, and at the very least, TD is NOT where it should be for burst since I do slightly better burst without taking it in the spec (sticking points elsewhere).

 

Still, for the spec that is *supposed* to be the burst spec... you would think they would give the shoulder cannon buffs to the pyro tree....

[Brunner_Venda]

Hrmmm perhaps you are right, I will try to check the burst minus shoulder cannon tonight if I get the time. I still think that FT is still just that strong, and at the very least, TD is NOT where it should be for burst since I do slightly better burst without taking it in the spec (sticking points elsewhere).

 

Still, for the spec that is *supposed* to be the burst spec... you would think they would give the shoulder cannon buffs to the pyro tree....

 

I'm stuck at work all night, would you mind checking out the new PFT damage numbers?

 

With the 30% surge bonus, it's going to hurt. It used to do 3-4k on a crit per tick. It runs for three (seconds/ticks), including the GCD right? It should hit now (total) as high as 14K-15K, or the equivalent of two regular 7K hits (separated by one GCD).

 

And it's a cone AOE.

 

And it has a ten meter range.

 

And it slows the victims by 90% instead of 70%.

 

And it has a what, a 7.5 sec CD, so setting the next one up is easy if you are CC'ed out of one.

 

And it's elemental, so armor mitigation doesn't help.

 

And it should hit and damage people for more than smash, even when a tick doesn't crit.

 

Don't tell the devs, but this ability migh lt just kick serious behind now. It hits hard enough now to keep trying to set it up, even if you fail at it a few times it's actually worth the effort to keep trying.

[Skinnychalk]

Good game my class since launch.

 

2600 wz rating 4k+ wins 193 rated wins all gone cya.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Skinnychalk

[Brunner_Venda]

If you haven't seen it yet, we got a post from David from the dev team about the pyro spec in the PTS forum.

 

Basically: They nerfed bursting flame and buffed the nerf to sweltering heat.

 

We're still down a nerf, but a 6 second sweltering heat snare at 40% sounds nice. (Instead of two seconds at 30%).

 

I'll take it. Now if they would address the top of our tree we might be viable.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Brunner_Venda

[OlosBC]

Its a buff to the nerf to bursting flame. RP will still 100% crock cylinder, and FB will 60% proc (up from the nerf to 45%)

 

I think this change largely makes the bursting flame change a wash, and a minor burst buff (now apply cell when fishing for first PPA proc with punch instead of FB, this is a minor concern though)

[ceelaniri]

I just tilted on the new change from the dev post but would Luxidenstore be correct?

 

EDIT: So sweltering heat now only procs from IP and we can't hammer shot for it to proc? Shouldn't we have a proper gap closer then?

 

here are the change to sweltering heat:

-Sweltering Heat has been redesigned: While Plasma Cell is active, damage dealt by Ion Pulse has a 50/100% chance to reduce the target's movement speed by 40% for 6 seconds.

 

if this is correct, it is an even bigger nerf, we ll just be sitting duck.

Edited August 20, 2013 by ceelaniri

[Luxidenstore]

Just feeling like putting some changes out there, that I think would help us in our current situation. Posting the Powertech abilities, since I'm posting it in this sub forum. Feel free to shoot me down if you think it's OP or just dumb. I have a PvP bias.

 

Bursting Flame has been reverted to it's live functionality.

 

Incendiary Missile PTS change is kept.

 

Degauss has been redesigned. Chaff Flare now reduces damage taken by 7.5/15% for 6(8?) seconds

 

Burnout: The following has been added: Rail Shot ignores 5/10/15% of the targets armor, if the target is affected by Incendiary Missile. (Idea stolen from ScytheEleven)

 

Power Bracer: Elemental Damage added to the list, but talent reduced to 5% Does not stack with Hot Iron or Hyper Fuel.

 

Rapid Venting: Something besides the alacrity? Maybe smallish reduction on Explosive fuel? Something else?

 

Automated Defenses: For every critical hit via a DoT, Automated Defenses now heals the player for 1% of their total health. Still reduces the cooldown. (Again stolen from ScytheEleven)

 

Thermal Detonator change from the PTS is being kept.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Luxidenstore

[ScytheEleven]

Just feeling like putting some changes out there, that I think would help us in our current situation. Posting the Powertech abilities, since I'm posting it in this sub forum. Feel free to shoot me down if you think it's OP or just dumb. I have a PvP bias.

 

Bursting Flame has been reverted to it's live functionality.

 

Incendiary Missile PTS change is kept.

 

Degauss has been redesigned. Chaff Flare now reduces damage taken by 7.5/15% for 6(8?) seconds

 

Burnout: The following has been added: Rail Shot ignores 5/10/15% of the targets armor, if the target is affected by Incendiary Missile. (Idea stolen from ScytheEleven)

 

Power Bracer: Elemental Damage added to the list, but talent reduced to 5% Does not stack with Hot Iron or Hyper Fuel.

 

Rapid Venting: Something besides the alacrity? Maybe smallish reduction on Explosive fuel? Something else?

 

Automated Defenses: For every critical hit via a DoT, Automated Defenses now heals the player for 1% of their total health. Still reduces the cooldown. (Again stolen from ScytheEleven)

 

Thermal Detonator change from the PTS is being kept.

 

I bet you know which two I like the most

 

I like the idea about Chaff Flare. Some added survivability there.

 

The elemental damage to Power Bracer doesn't really make sense when you stop to think about the name of the talent...and if it doesn't stack with Hyper Fuel or Hot Iron, what's the point really?

 

The reduction of Explosive Fuel would be great, but only if we didn't already have minus 15 seconds from the set bonus...which lets be real, no one cares about since if you're smart, you time up Explosive Fuel to line up with your Boundless Ages relic.

 

I would say:

 

Power Bracer: additionally increases the critical strike chance of TD by 6%. You could also make this a skill that benefits TD a lot by putting in "After using Rocket Punch, your next Thermal Detonator costs 4 less heat. Lasts 15 seconds".

 

Rapid Venting: Keep the 30 second bonus to THO and Vent Heat, but have Vent Heat immediately dissipate 8 heat, and then proceed to vent 50 heat over 3 seconds.

Edited August 21, 2013 by ScytheEleven

[Luxidenstore]

 

The elemental damage to Power Bracer doesn't really make sense when you stop to think about the name of the talent...and if it doesn't stack with Hyper Fuel or Hot Iron, what's the point really?

 

 

I'm not an english speaker, so I have honestly no idea what the name of the talent is refering to. Since Flame burst is elemental, I was trying to disincentivize something like this(Or similar variants) http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hMbZMsMZfhMrzRrfcz.3 for PvP, where you'd go for constant hard hitting IP's instead of going full spec.

 

EDIT: Similar reasons is why I added the IM ArP on RS to burnout instead of baking it into the IM talent itself. Didn't really look for all kinds of possible uses if it was just standard, but felt it was best kept in the higher end of the tree.

 

 

The reduction of Explosive Fuel would be great, but only if we didn't already have minus 15 seconds from the set bonus...which lets be real, no one cares about since if you're smart, you time up Explosive Fuel to line up with your Boundless Ages relic.

 

 

As I said it's from a heavy PvP bias. I don't use that bonus so my knowledge of it's usability in PvE is limited. Furthermore Explosive fuel was just speculation, the idea is more that they should stop shoving alacrity down our collective throats

Edited August 21, 2013 by Luxidenstore

[Kooziejr]

Go to the end if you CBF'd reading my rant.

 

A have a massive PvP bias but what I am about to say hopefully is applicable to PvE as well (as I have played a fair bit of that in this game early on). As mentioned earlier PTs probably have the best mobility in the game (particularly AP). However, as mentioned previously THIS IS NOT A GAP CLOSER! We are for the most part a melee class....Rocket Punch and Retractable blade are probably 2 of the most important moves for AP (I know what I'm talking about so don't even try and argue this with me), further, Rocket Punch is the 100% proc now for Pyro making it extremely important as well. Therefore if you are playing either class you do need to close a gap at some stage in order to proc/apply dots/do heavy damage. Thus, my question like so many other hardcore PT's is:

 

ARE WE A MELEE CLASS OR A MIDDLE DISTANCE CLASS when we DPS?

 

Stop with this ******** 4m ability if we have no gap closer. I'm not asking for a leap, and I do think it is a little OP is rocket punch and retractable blade had a 10m range in PvP so I don't know how to fix it but I do know it is broken....I don't play pyro but a 4 second stun can negate 66% of your gap closer....ahhh LOL...so stupid. I know I'm not to make suggestions but I think chaff flare should be a second CC breaker when HO is active when you are in Combustible and High energy cylinder. This can someone fix the gap closer issue. I don't think AP needs more survivability (a debuff like obfuscate would be nice but we can't all be OP as fk like maras)..but pyro probably does need something a little extra if they will be valuable in PvP.

 

A leap is not the answer to PT DPS problems. It makes it too mobile and too unfair. I want the class to be balanced and to have a fighting chance...further why would you want to leap into a jug/mara and still it doesn't help you with snipers and it will probably just pop lightening sorc bubbles....so no...that will not help. Something equivalent to an operative roll that engages the jetpack 12m forward every 30 seconds would be nice. not specifically aiming at the target.

 

Question: Are powertech DPS suppose to be a melee or middle ranged class and if you are indeed happy with how it is working then how do you suppose PTs close the gap on more skilled ranged opponents in PvP and how do they close the gap on bosses in operations while sustaining DPS?

 

My solution: NOT A CHARGE - that would be stupid and OP and will NEVER happen so stop suggesting it. Perhaps a move called "Jetpack Ignition" - Engages the jetpack to hoist the player 12 meters forward. Cannot be used while holding the huttball. Cooldown 30 seconds. While this probably solves a lot of gap closing abilities it still doesn't help pyro survival. I don't even know why I started this post...the class is seriously broken and ****...BW go fk urself.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Kooziejr

[JediMasterSLC]

it almost makes you think they ****ed up with the talents and wanted to give Rocket Punch a 100% chance to proc RS while keeping FB at 45%...

 

That's what I thought it was for a minute too! What they actually did makes no sense whatsoever.

[stringcat]

Stop with this ******** 4m ability if we have no gap closer. I'm not asking for a leap, and I do think it is a little OP is rocket punch and retractable blade had a 10m range in PvP so I don't know how to fix it but I do know it is broken.lf.

 

I'm confused. Why is the pull NOT a gap closer? It's on a longer cooldown (45s vs. 30s), but it's also much better, because you don't have to go where the enemy is - surrounded by his friends. Instead, you put the enemy where you want him, right next to YOUR friends, without exposing yourself.

[ceelaniri]

I'm confused. Why is the pull NOT a gap closer? It's on a longer cooldown (45s vs. 30s), but it's also much better, because you don't have to go where the enemy is - surrounded by his friends. Instead, you put the enemy where you want him, right next to YOUR friends, without exposing yourself.

 

Unlike Leaps, Graps are subject to resolve and also fill in the resolve bar. The CD for force leap is 15 sec (pretty sure jetcharge is on a CD similar to 15sec).

 

On top of that you could argue that leaps damage target while throwing a harpoon at someone and bringing them back is harmless..

 

You can also use Leap as a defensive move, like moving on another target closer to your backline and healer if you find yourself in a difficult situation.

Edited August 23, 2013 by ceelaniri

[Ottoattack]

Unlike Leaps, Graps are subject to resolve and also fill in the resolve bar. The CD for force leap is 15 sec (pretty sure jetcharge is on a CD similar to 15sec).

 

On top of that you could argue that leaps damage target while throwing a harpoon at someone and bringing them back is harmless..

 

You can also use Leap as a defensive move, like moving on another target closer to your backline and healer if you find yourself in a difficult situation.

 

As a PvP player, gap closer was never a real issue for PT. I am not sure why people are so stuck on trying to resolve something that was not a problem. The problem is damage output. I do not care what dps tree you are playing in PvP, wither its AP, pyro or a hybrid, damage output is terrible. I have not played AP on PTS, but pyro changes are beyond dumb. TD still has no punch. IM is nerfed, considering that the heat was relatively not an issue in PvP. Then removing making CGC not 100% will result in even more dps loss, considering cleanse.

 

The devs are have taken incompetent to a whole new level.

[ceelaniri]

As a PvP player, gap closer was never a real issue for PT. I am not sure why people are so stuck on trying to resolve something that was not a problem. The problem is damage output. I do not care what dps tree you are playing in PvP, wither its AP, pyro or a hybrid, damage output is terrible. I have not played AP on PTS, but pyro changes are beyond dumb. TD still has no punch. IM is nerfed, considering that the heat was relatively not an issue in PvP. Then removing making CGC not 100% will result in even more dps loss, considering cleanse.

 

The devs are have taken incompetent to a whole new level.

 

i dont care that much about a gap closer, personnally i d just be happy if we could have kept our snare on rapid shots as it was a decent way to catch up with people, it was also nice to use flame sweep to snare group of people.

 

I do agree with you that none of the change on the PTS address Pyro's issues and just show that this current balance team has no clue about how this class work. The current bugs on the PTS tend to further this idea.

[Chickensevil]

I'm confused. Why is the pull NOT a gap closer? It's on a longer cooldown (45s vs. 30s), but it's also much better, because you don't have to go where the enemy is - surrounded by his friends. Instead, you put the enemy where you want him, right next to YOUR friends, without exposing yourself.

 

And let's not forget PVE... can you pull a boss? Even if you *could* pull him, would the raid even let you? Not a gap closer. Staying in 4m in PVE combat can be challenging on many different fights.

[Chickensevil]

Regarding Grapple. I have always liked the idea of making it so if you can't pull the target to you, it should pull you to the target... I mean look at the Batman Grapple. It is basically the same idea. (Yes I did just reference Batman).

 

Basically on any target which would be immune to your pull for whatever reason (rooted, full resolve, boss immunity) it pulls the player to the target location, and could even be made as such that you land on top of them with like an elbow strike to the face.

 

This would make that ability the most interresting one in the game, since, especially in a PVP scenerio, could cause interresting results. Accidentally leaping into a group of enemy players instead of pulling the one guy out like you intended. Would make this a very double edged ability that would take a little bit of skill to use to its fullest extent.