madmarttigann Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Personally I don't care if people want to abuse it. It at least gives us an option to get ranked coms when you don't have guildies on. As for the person saying arenas won't have that much increased participation due to group specs being more stringent..... Yes there might be more powerful combinations, but if you think that is going to prevent talented people from queuing that is ridiculous. The arena scene will be significantly better than 8v8. I know starsider could put together an arena team every night where as we can't get an 8 man group on ANY night. The only way they would make arenas less active is if they made the mistake of locking people into teams like Wow to keep your rating. I hope they make it an individual team rating like it stands with 8v8 so you can queue with different people as needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) It'But now my concern is that people will queue for arenas as something other than their actual role just to get a game. they handled this part very well. in order to enter the arena as a given role, the majority of your talent points must be in a tree for that role. once in the arena, you will not be able to add talent points. if there is an equal number of points in two different trees, then you will default to dps. this has all been verified by alex mooney in the QA thread. I'm not going to bother linking, but it's there if you wanna dig it up. Edited August 16, 2013 by foxmob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dego-harmonium Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) if they made ranked the only way to obtain ranked coms people might force to que up, or increased the ratio of unranked you needed to earn ranked. IDK They just need to figure out a reward system that will draw players to 4vs4, over regs That being said, imagine the rage a bad pug will endure in a solo que rated hah, they almost have to formulate games to give you a bonus to rating even in a loss Edited August 16, 2013 by dego-harmonium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 The only way they would make arenas less active is if they made the mistake of locking people into teams like Wow to keep your rating. I hope they make it an individual team rating like it stands with 8v8 so you can queue with different people as needed. grp rating will operate just as it does in 8v8. that's neither good nor bad, imo. you'll notice that just one new member in your 8v8 messes up your grp rating (in terms of matchmaking AND in terms of rating you gain/lose in a WZ with them). translation: it's in your best interest to queue with the same ppl or ppl with similar rating when you grp queue. solo queue is a completely different rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmarttigann Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Well at that point you just have to make sure you have no friends that are pvp scrubs to set your matchmaking to a lower rating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galaxivurse Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 The arena scene will be significantly better than 8v8. I know starsider could put together an arena team every night where as we can't get an 8 man group on ANY night. Def looking forward to this. Will be great to have the rated scene more accessible for those who can't put together 8 ppl consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Well at that point you just have to make sure you have no friends that are pvp scrubs to set your matchmaking to a lower rating my only complaint along those lines is that my main for rated was a mando. when BL needed dps and had better heals, I hopped on my VG and did very well. however, he gained very little rating despite winning a very high percentage. He started out like 16-3. it's because I was grp'd with players who were in <BL> from the beginning of rated, and their ratings were up in the high teens. TL; DR: it punishes you if you bring in alts/change toons. otherwise, not a big deal imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqgarvis Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 This is the best thing since sliced bread, no matter how you slice it 4v4 arena with solo queue option caters to a much larger demographic than 8v8. For instance I couldn't do ranked, it took to much time to form at specific times which wasn't conducive to my play times. This new change puts me back into the PvP scene when and how I want it on my own terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmarttigann Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Yep basically.... I R excite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
galaxivurse Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 Yep basically.... I R excite Mad, r u logging to pts tonight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flem Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 (edited) no matter how you slice it 4v4 arena with solo queue option caters to a much larger demographic than 8v8You have it quite backwards. Kracks is right: 4v4 makes ranked accessible to anyone... who's willing to play the FOTM spec and comp. It will also be just as brutal as 8v8 in terms of skill and preparation stomping any deficiency of either. Everyone is giddy about it, just like in the early days before ranked (haha, yes, before the delay), because everyone thinks he's the one who's going to do the stomping this time. But illusions will be shattered, again, and this time PvP guilds themselves will disintegrate because you don't need guilds and guild drama to support a four-man infrastructure. Bioware's solution? They're going to let in a bunch of F2P folks to be farmed, so the mass of average players aren't going to be suffering beatdowns 24/7. But they'll probably be gated from ranked, so that will be just as discouraging as ever. You won't have seven other people to organize... but you won't have seven other people to soften the blow of losing, either. Anyway, I find TDM itself to be almost as pointless and boring as the trogs who clog the PvP forum with complaints about objectives being "PvE". Not sure how much I'll q if I can't select WZ only. But that's another story. Edited August 16, 2013 by flem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnirl Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 ranked 8v8 has no pvp capping nodes is not "pvp" deathmatch is PvP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter_Mathis Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 ranked 8v8 has no pvp capping nodes is not "pvp" deathmatch is a form of PvP fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsin Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 (edited) Ranked warzones will be back... I promise nearly every big change in this game like that they reverse eventually. really looking forward to 4v4's tho Edited August 17, 2013 by Corsin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flem Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 nearly every big change in this game like that they reverse eventually.Where's my Ilum? Noob rock ain't the same with just some Gree crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MandFlurry Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 (edited) They have a thread in the PvP section for signing against the removing of 8v8 man ranked system which I /signed to. I know it will be harder for guys like me that are not in any Guilds. Edited August 17, 2013 by MandFlurry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 They have a thread in the PvP section for signing against the removing of 8v8 man ranked system which I /signed to. I know it will be harder for guys like me that are not in any Guilds. from what I understand, solo rated queue is a completely separate queue from grp rated. if that's true, then you should be fine. what I do know is true is that reg queues are fuct. you cannot specify between arenas and WZs in the reg queue. however, if you limit yourself to rated, then you can (obviously because there's no more RWZ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randiesel Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 what I do know is true is that reg queues are fuct. you cannot specify between arenas and WZs in the reg queue. however, if you limit yourself to rated, then you can (obviously because there's no more RWZ). Yeah, that should be changed. I haven't tried the solo normal queue option on the pts yet, but you are guaranteed arena with the ranked queue obviously. Since you can't respec while even in queue anymore, I'm guessing ppl won't be happy if they are running a build that is not optimal for arena when they get force into arena. That is, of course, if the reg queue arbitrarily dumps you into one or the other. Is this actually confirmed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 That is, of course, if the reg queue arbitrarily dumps you into one or the other. Is this actually confirmed? it's on the blog and alex mooney's discussion/ QA. I don't know if it's on pts or live. but from what I hear, pts queue is screwed up atm anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
randiesel Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 it's on the blog and alex mooney's discussion/ QA. I don't know if it's on pts or live. but from what I hear, pts queue is screwed up atm anyway. Aah ok, thx. Yeah, the queue AFAIK is messed up b/c of the deserter bug. You get the deserter debuff and it randomly has too short a value, so you are flagged as a deserter before the gates even open for the match. I've had it happen 1st rounds, I've had it happen 2nd rounds, it's completely random it seems. Puts a damper on testing for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqgarvis Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 You have it quite backwards. Kracks is right: 4v4 makes ranked accessible to anyone... who's willing to play the FOTM spec and comp. It will also be just as brutal as 8v8 in terms of skill and preparation stomping any deficiency of either. Everyone is giddy about it, just like in the early days before ranked (haha, yes, before the delay), because everyone thinks he's the one who's going to do the stomping this time. But illusions will be shattered, again, and this time PvP guilds themselves will disintegrate because you don't need guilds and guild drama to support a four-man infrastructure. Bioware's solution? They're going to let in a bunch of F2P folks to be farmed, so the mass of average players aren't going to be suffering beatdowns 24/7. But they'll probably be gated from ranked, so that will be just as discouraging as ever. You won't have seven other people to organize... but you won't have seven other people to soften the blow of losing, either. Anyway, I find TDM itself to be almost as pointless and boring as the trogs who clog the PvP forum with complaints about objectives being "PvE". Not sure how much I'll q if I can't select WZ only. But that's another story. When more than 1% of the server population plays rank arena I will be correct. I believe they will be using player and group ratings to determine matchups, with that said the 24/7 beat downs theory is incorrect, unless of course the team truly does suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MandFlurry Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I guess I need to get into a Guild, even though I don't a real schedule of doing things, because I got kicked for not having Conqeurer armor, and only having only 28k health, as some of my mods didn't crossover tp PTS. I have all kinds of other gear though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 When more than 1% of the server population plays rank arena I will be correct. I believe they will be using player and group ratings to determine matchups, with that said the 24/7 beat downs theory is incorrect, unless of course the team truly does suck. RWZ use grp ratings to determine matchups too. Players of average skill and below, who make up the vast majority of the game -- even those in WZs (hence the term "average") -- will dwindle away over the course of a month or two as they continue to get stepped on by their betters. contrary to popular (forum) belief, one does not improve dramatically over the course of a few months when one has been doing essentially the same thing for X years. the years > the month. most ppl aren't that good. they're going to get stepped on and stop queueing or start queue dodging. 4v4 and faster matching will be better than 8v8 in terms of matchmaking because the matches themselves are faster, thus, rating will be established faster, and the same number of players effectively doubles the number of teams in the pool. Those are good things, but the only lasting advantage to the new system, I think, will be the fact that there's a separate solo pool (if I understand things correctly, but if they play in the same pool as premades, then that will die very quickly). what sucks? they're all TDM maps. 4v4 makes every individual much more important, thus pushing role players and most ACs out of good teams. For example, each team can afford only one healer, and there's no chance that a sage or mando will perform as well as an equally talented scoundrel. so unless the other team miraculously operates with the same healing handicap, your team will be screwed. in 8v8, with 2-3 heals, this is not a problem. in 4v4, it's a huge factor. I've seen sorcs get singled out and fried in every PTS stream I've watched. If they weren't the first to die, then it was their dire straights that caused one of their teammates to die. Those are just 2 examples. I haven't seen melee heavy streams, but I'm sure PT dps is in trouble whereas it could pass in 8m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pqgarvis Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 That's the whole problem with 8v8 there was never a high enough pool of teams for rating and matching to work, hence you played against who ever was in queue with your team. With a higher pool of players running ranked and solo arena, then rating will for the first time come into play. The rating system worked in WoW, however they did have much higher population and cross server queues. The long term success for arena in Star Wars will come down to the amount of people who will queue over time creating proper rating brackets for joe "not skilled" and joe "skilled". At the end of the day people want to enjoy pvp, and playing against people of similar skill level will accomplish this, so if that works out, arena will be a success. Class balance inside arena and team composition is whole other issue, I will say this cream always rises to the top, and I have seen many players take a bottom rung pvp class and make them excel. With 4v4 arena there is going to be less room for error and the players skill is going to matter much more than 8v8. Arena will also open up a lot more build variations and they can be more team synergy driven, by that I mean builds that maybe are not successful in 8v8 can shine with the proper team makeup in 4v4. Guaranteed many people will run into an interesting team makeup with class builds which will leave people going, "What the hell build is that guy running? I can believe how good that worked with his team." While there will be popular team compositions, there is going to be plenty of variation that one combination will not dominate all. Time will tell but for the first time since Star Wars was released I am very excited about the pvp being fun again (not that I didn't like it as is, but death matching is a much higher level of adrenalin and competition). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dego-harmonium Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 (edited) i think a merc will almost be essential for electro net , so Im thinking an ideal group would be op/merc/tank/marauder I dont have a jugg tank so idk first hand how they play but both PT and assassin tanks have their advantages. Edited August 19, 2013 by dego-harmonium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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