A Plea for cross server flashpoint queues.

[Greggo]

Hey guys,

I know you have probably heard this many many times before, but I would like to share my situation. I am an APAC player, who has subsequently moved to the Bastion from Dalborra. All of my characters are in a PvP guild with friends from my old server. I love pvp, and open world pvp, but I have gotten to a stage where I would like to experience all different parts of this great game.

I am currently gearing my marauder and mercenary through flashpoints with a view to getting an opportunity to run some of the top level operations this game has to offer. I am finding this very difficult to do via the group finder. Each night I queue, and the wait time is generally between 30 mins and an hour. This makes it almost impossible to run more than one flashpoint a night. I understand I am on a PvP server, but for me transferring is out of the question, and I don't have the time or the inclination to level more characters elsewhere (especially with all my crafters on Bastion. Also, with the closing of the APAC servers, alot of the Aus timezone players have moved to all different servers.

Over the past six months or so I have found a lot of new friends in the swtor community via twitter, who I would love to run flashpoints and operations with, but they are scattered among various servers. In other games I have played, there were mechanics in place where you could add friends via their email, then queue with them, regardless of what server they were on. This would be an amazing addition, and I can't see any negatives to it. I'll admit, I don't know how hard it is to program something like this, but surely cross server queues can be implemented, you have been talking about them since 1.2 if I remember correctly.

I love playing this game, all parts of it, but I am struggling to find things to do on my marauder while I wait ridiculous amounts of time for a flashpoint to pop.

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this.

 

TL;DR Please implement cross server queues, the wait time as DPS in Aus times is too long.

[MaudibSevenup]

/signed

I'd really like to see this implemented.

[UberLord]

Don't like LFG queues? Roll a tank, instant in.

Shorter queue, roll a healer (I believe you have a merc that can do this)

 

Want to be a DPS all the time? Well, so does everyone else, wait your turn.

 

LFG doesn't magically invent tanks or healers, and I doubt cross server LFG would help as I would imagine most servers are starved of tanks and healers in LFG.

 

Of course the best solution to your problem is join a guid, or make one, and make friends with a tank who will queue with you.

[Greggo]

More than happy to wait for a DPS queue, although I think that waiting up to an hour is excessive. I understand there are other solutions, I just think this one would be effective, as it is in other, similar games.

[sithBracer]

Sorry, cross server queues would do nothing for this problem as all servers are short on tanks and healers (mostly tanks). If anything your queue would in some cases be longer as some servers have so many dps and so few tanks that the queue is over 2 hours.

 

To make matters worse a lot of tanks are queueing with friends/guildies because they are so sick and tired of wiping because of bad pugs and because, you know they want to help their friends get a shorter queue.

 

Sadly bioware can't force people to play tank. So either roll a tank or get a tank friend to queue with you.

[Jimvinny]

I don't solo queue on my tanks or healers unless I'm feeling particularly masochistic that night. Just not worth the headaches. As has already been mentioned, cross-server Q's won't help DPS gets queue pops, because this mentality of non solo-queuing exists among tanks and healers across all servers.

[Jeweledleah]

pretty much what the last two posters said. cross server queue will not fix dps queues. but it will make the atmosphere in flashpoints even worse because ignore will lose its effectiveness as a bad behavior deterrent.

 

on queueing with a friend though, and this was kind of hilarious. queued on one of my healers with a tank friend I made.... no pop. what the heck? I mean... shouldn't we be getting insta queue in this case? on a hunch, he switches his role from tank, to tank/dps - bam insta pop. got ourselves a tank/dps pair. looks like queue with your friendly tank/healer is a default now at least on my server.

 

that anecdote aside, I personally think that the biggest problem with dps queues are due to the fact that you only need 2 to form a group, while ratios of tanks/healers to dps are much smaller than that. just adding another dps slot to the group would do more to fix the problem of long wait, then cross server finder ever could.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Jeweledleah

[sithBracer]

that anecdote aside, I personally think that the biggest problem with dps queues are due to the fact that you only need 2 to form a group, while ratios of tanks/healers to dps are much smaller than that. just adding another dps slot to the group would do more to fix the problem of long wait, then cross server finder ever could.

 

5 member groups would be a short term solution because in the long run it would cause more people to pick dps classes (as you need 3 of them) and the discrepancy would only grow that much. All MMOs seem to have this problem no matter what size the party is.

 

Healers although less common than dps are still a dime a dozen so they are not the problem. But tanks are still very rare, and horrible dps and fake healers (dps ops/sorcs/mercs who can't heal to save their life queueing as healers for a quicker queue) have overall alienated many good tanks from soloing the group finder. I have 2 heals as my mains and a tank friend who absolutely hates queueing without me because of all the horrible healers and dps he got in the past-he even gets mad when I queue alone sometimes instead of waiting for him to sign on. And if you read the "weird people I met in GF" thread you will see many other horror stories that tanks have to face everyday-I honestly didn't believe many of them until my tank friend pretty much confirmed them and I started tanking myself.

 

The only solution that might help (even a little) is to give people more incentive to tank. Maybe give them 3 times as much money as a healer/dps (although this might alienate people from healing), a special weekly where if they tank for 10 fps in GF solo they get a special prize that only they can get. Maybe if they tank 100 times in a certain matter of months they get early access to a new fp for them and their friends or something.

 

Anything to make tanking more popular because right now (speaking as a tank) it sucks. It's not easy, you take a lot of abuse, guilds don't need that many tanks for endgame (only need 2 for even 16 mans), you need to know every op mechanic forwards and backwards, not that much fun node guarding, just switching guard and taunting in PvP-many would rather kill, and you need to keep an entirely separate set of armor if you want to dps. To many it's not worth it, and many are just scared off of it.

[Powerrmongerr]

As a tank, I get an instant pop. To the hordes of folks rolling DPS, you are not owed a tank. And, to be blunt, most of us see little incentive in queuing in groupfinder as we can always find folks we know will not suck who are eager to join us. As a matter of fact, my last two runs of the new Czerka flashpoints, in HM, we brought a dps companion rather than queue for a second dps at my request. I just don't want to deal with groupfinder I've become so soured on it, and more loot for us.

 

Expanding the queue to multiple servers is not going to make more tanks appear. In particularly, it will not make more COMPETENT tanks who aren't just tossing on random garbage suddenly start queuing. There are three solutions to the lack of tanks:

 

1.)Bribe tanks. Get another dps, get a healer, everyone chip in 50k. That will probably get it done. *shrug* Yeah, that sucks. But, it works.

 

2.)Roll a tank. Let me guess, you want to be a sniper/gunslinger or marauder/sentinel?

 

3.)Bioware implements a reward that actually encourages a tank to join the RANDOM groupfinder (as opposed to queueing with four people). Call it "tanking comms." If you complete a flashpoint with a full RANDOM group as a tank, you get a tanking comm. Get 20 tanking comms, or something like that, and you can purchase one rank 75 (or whatever the highest rank at the moment is) mod/enhancement/armoring. Tanks love gear. We LOVE gear. And we don't mind working at improving our toons, that's why we're tanks. If such a system was implemented, you would see tanks flooding groupfinder.

 

If not gear, maybe unique titles, unique mounts, unique pets, something. SOMETHING. Cause right now, I see absolutely zero incentive to enter the random groupfinder queue.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Powerrmongerr

[Jeweledleah]

@ Sithbracer

oh I hear you. I currently have 2 tanks at lvl 55 and I don't pug alone on them. ever. I pug alone on my healers sometimes (3 at 55, a few more still leveling), but rarely nowadays.

 

I'm not sure if people will be encouraged to play dps more if groups include more dps. people who want to play dps already do. and forcing people to play tank/healers just to get groups results directly on those nightmarish pugs where people don't know/don't want to know how to play their roles, because they didn't do it out of genuine want.

 

rewards for tanks? I don't know what could POSSIBLY entice me personally to deal with the kind of pugs you can sometimes get regularly. I don't think even free subscription could do that.

 

but I do think that reducing the number of tanks/healers needed per dps population - could work not just short term.

/shrug.

in the reality, the solution that I would prefer? is impossible. because it involves attitude adjustment and people no longer making it so unpleasant to tank (and heal)

Edited August 14, 2013 by Jeweledleah

[Powerrmongerr]

 

rewards for tanks? I don't know what could POSSIBLY entice me personally to deal with the kind of pugs you can sometimes get regularly. I don't think even free subscription could do that.

 

Oh, I don't know. I'd think you'd do it for a rancor mount, an all black glossy version of the Desler, or the chance to earn rank 75 gear mods. I could be wrong.

 

I would love to see stats on the tank population right now versus pre 2.0. It must have dropped precipitously, right? Pre 2.0, even bad tanks could get by in HM flashpoints and the HM/NiM variations of two of the four raids. Post 2.0? All of the new HM FPs and the the new raid (even at SM) have noticeable tanking mechanic checks.

 

The two raids that required essentially no tanking mechanics (except, I guess, Fabricator) stayed at level 50, and so did EC HM/NiM. You want to do level 55 content as a tank, you gotta have some idea of how to handle mechanics. And don't tell me SV SM and TFB SM are so easy even bad tanks can do them. As someone who attempted probably 15-20 SM SV and TFB raids through groupfinder for the ultimate comms, a significant percentage of people queuing as tanks could not handle the most simple of tanking mechanics.

[sithBracer]

What about for a chance at new rare color dyes (black and something or black and black)? How about for cartel coins? Or yeah, some rare 72 enhancements that only a tank can use? Or some rare phantom gear or the throne speeder?

 

Even if you don't I'm sure many tanks will and a lot more people will start rolling a tank instead of dps.

 

Healers will probably complain that they don't get anything but speaking as a healer: who the hell cares? You guys are still expendable.

[Jeweledleah]

I resent the implication that healers are expendable. the reason why I prefer to play healers rather than tanks (even while playing both) is because I get much more of a say in groups success as a healer, then as a tank. I metaphorically hold lives in my hands. from personal experience - good healer can pull a crappy tank through, but good tank just cannot compensate the same way for a crappy healer.

 

that said - rewards for tanks may entice some people to tank more. they will also most certainly entice people who are not really tanks to queue as one and hope to be carried through. so I'm not sure rewards would fix the situation either... even if you make it into a reward for whatever role is most lacking at the time, not just tank.

 

last but not least, I've seen healers be as much of a bottleneck as tanks. depends on time of the week/day. (hell like in my little anecdote, where my buddy tank had to switch to dps for us to get a group)

[sithBracer]

I resent the implication that healers are expendable. the reason why I prefer to play healers rather than tanks (even while playing both) is because I get much more of a say in groups success as a healer, then as a tank. I metaphorically hold lives in my hands. from personal experience - good healer can pull a crappy tank through, but good tank just cannot compensate the same way for a crappy healer.

 

Sorry but the truth hurts. If a healer leaves a queue or rage quits a group there is a whole line of healers waiting to take his/her place. It's not as big as the dps line of course and sometimes the group might have to wait 2-5 minutes but it will never be too long.

 

last but not least, I've seen healers be as much of a bottleneck as tanks. depends on time of the week/day. (hell like in my little anecdote, where my buddy tank had to switch to dps for us to get a group)

 

Yes, yes we all go through the monday night healer strike every once in a while-I found out the hard way when I found 2 tanks in 2 minutes and spent the next 45 minutes looking for a healer (and pretty much the entire group gave up on waiting and the group disbanded), but when it comes to GF, that is definitely not the norm. Do I get instapops on my 2 main healers? Of course I do, but they happen so rarely that I actually get annoyed when it happens. Since it's so rare, I usually queue then spend the next few minutes getting the daily/weekly, checking GTN, selling some stuff and traveling to a different planet to get ready for a daily.

 

Speaking of anecdotes, I remember when a tank friend queued on his dps with my healer once, after waiting for around 15 minutes he unqueued us and told me to switch to healer in GF. I told him I am in healer and this is a normal wait time for us and that now he just extended our wait time. He was like: ***?

[Powerrmongerr]

I resent the implication that healers are expendable. the reason why I prefer to play healers rather than tanks (even while playing both) is because I get much more of a say in groups success as a healer, then as a tank. I metaphorically hold lives in my hands. from personal experience - good healer can pull a crappy tank through, but good tank just cannot compensate the same way for a crappy healer.

 

that said - rewards for tanks may entice some people to tank more. they will also most certainly entice people who are not really tanks to queue as one and hope to be carried through. so I'm not sure rewards would fix the situation either... even if you make it into a reward for whatever role is most lacking at the time, not just tank.

 

last but not least, I've seen healers be as much of a bottleneck as tanks. depends on time of the week/day. (hell like in my little anecdote, where my buddy tank had to switch to dps for us to get a group)

 

I'm not sure how this is turning into a manhood measuring contest between healers and tanks, but I'd say my healing companion (admittedly, in full 72s) is significantly better at his job than a good chunk of pug healers (except meltdown and lost island, with their companion eating aoe, the flashpoints can be easily cleared with a companion healer).

 

Healers are never as scarce as tanks for the simple reason that respeccing from dps to heals is easy. With the exception of accuracy, there's really no stat changes to worry about. Respeccing from tank to dps? Many problems. Namely: none of the tanking classes have a popular dps spec at the moment, an entirely different set of gear is required, and the skillset gap between tanking and dps'ing is neither intuitive nor easily learned.

[Moricthian]

You know what would solve this problem? Duel Spec and a quick gear swap option. We need a feature that allows players to switch between two specs at a push of a button (rather than have to respec each and ever time) and we also need to quick button that allows a player to switch between two sets of gear. This will make PvP easier as a player can switch between PvP and PvE gear easier but it would really go a long way to solving long FP queues. Why you ask? Because leveling as a tank is a pain and its boring (yes I know you love it but for everyone else its slow and boring. This way they can still level as DPS, do dailies as DPS and switch to Tank stuff on the fly when queuing for a FP. This would incentivize more people to tank FP because they don't have to sacrifice daily and leveling efficiency to do it.

 

Now let me address some of the counter arguments:

 

1. We already have a respec option. We do but its not enough. Having to reset up your spec trees and keybinds every time you enter a flashpoint is a pain in the rear. You can even argue it only takes two minutes. But that's two minutes people don't want to spend fighting with their UI. If we want more tanks, we should make the transition between tanking and DPS as streamlined as possible. This would also include some kind of option to switch between two sets of gear on the fly.

 

2. Implementing these features is too difficult. I find that hard to believe. WoW has features just like it and their devs figured it out just fine. BW shouldn't find it too much more difficult.

 

3. I personally don't like these features/think they are unneeded. Good for you. Enjoy not using them.

 

4. Such a streamlined interface makes this game too easy/noob friendly. Some people find some sick twisted pleasure in combing through their menu screens, adjusting spec trees, key-binds and gear. That's not most people. This game should be hard and difficult but the difficulty should be found within the content itself. This argument confuses nerfing with accessibility. The above features would make content more accessible (easier to access and enjoy) while not necessarily making the content itself face roll (nerfing). You can do the former without the later.

 

5. The overall quality of tanks and healers will decrease. I think this objection is a fair one. With DPS being able to access tank gear/specs easier, they will probably not be as good. However this is where you have to weigh the good with the bad. If I'm a good DPS who puts out decent dmg and has good awareness (thinks to offtank mobs off healer, cc's appropriately etc...) then I should be able to make up for a lackluster tank. Even if overall tank quality does go down, cutting the queue times significantly will be worth it.

 

So here you have it BW. Duel spec/duel gear equip is a MUCH NEEDED FEATURE simply because it will ultimately make queue time shorter. People will spend more time playing the game and less time sitting around. That will keep people playing which is what we all want.

[Powerrmongerr]

You know what would solve this problem? Duel Spec and a quick gear swap option ... .

 

The game does need this. Badly. However, I think it will result in MORE healers to a far greater extent than tanks for the simple reason that it will not solve the problem of needing a separate dps and tanking gear set. This is a larger barrier to entry than skill. Nobody in their right mind is going to build up a dps and tanking set between levels 50-54, that would be utterly tedious.

 

So what's the quick fix for this problem? Hand out a "recruit" type tanking set that's equivalent to campaign, with no set bonus, to anyone who reaches level 55? Ugh. Not so sure that's a good idea.

Edited August 14, 2013 by Powerrmongerr

[sithBracer]

Yes you are right, I am 100% sure the reason people aren't playing with tanks and only as dps is because of those 2 minutes they need to respec their skill tree. It has nothing to do with tanking being harder, more reliant on team members, a need for a separate set of gear, constantly being blamed for losses even when the dps had no idea what they were doing, a need a remember every single mechanic in the game and boring to level up in the beginning. Nope, it's that 2 minutes that they need to respec in the skill tree. Well I think a solution is to let us save specs for quicker access. So if I make a spec I can save it and then when I want to go back to it I just click on that saved spec and I have the exact spec I want, not just the full tank tree.

 

Do you honestly want to know what I think will get more people to tank? Give them a second lightsaber. A lot of people only choose the sentinel/marauder because they have 2 lightsabers, no other reason, and by the time they get to level 55 they realize they can only dps. Give the juggs a second lightsaber and boom you will see a spike in tanks ... they will all probably be ****** tanks but at least the queues will be faster.

 

Edit-And give the sorcs a second lightsaber and you will see very few assassins and nothing but sorc healers in queues.

Edited August 14, 2013 by sithBracer

[MidichIorian]

The OP really hasnt thought this through. X-server is only increasing the volume of the player pool when the real problem is the concentration of certain specs. There's no significant difference between the tank:dps and healer:dps ratios on PvE and PvP servers, or atleast not in the PvE servers favor, so it wouldnt solve anything. Edited August 15, 2013 by MidichIorian

[Greggo]

The OP really hasnt thought this through. X-server is only increasing the volume of the player pool when the real problem is the concentration of certain specs. There's no significant difference between the tank:dps and healer:dps ratios on PvE and PvP servers, or atleast not in the PvE servers favor, so it wouldnt solve anything.

I agree, the problem during prime time (US) probably has more to do with class balance, or more specifically, the amount of tanks willing to queue solo using LFG tool. But in off peak times (AUS Prime time) I truly believe that the more people I have an opportunity of grouping with the better. Particularly with all of the aussie players now spread amongst the US servers, instead of being in one place.

[DarkJediMage]

most players i know are converting to healers for quick queue times

[sithBracer]

most players i know are converting to healers for quick queue times

 

And those players probably don't heal, cleanse and AOE attack as much as they can. They make queues for real healers longer and alienate tanks from queueing in GF.

 

Please bioware, do not let them queue as healers unless they are in healer spec (for 55s)!!!!!

Edited August 15, 2013 by sithBracer

[Prototypemind]

Honestly, the reasons mentioned are why whenever possible I'm seeing who in my guild needs a 55HM or Op run before I queue. I like to enjoy the game and learn mechanics instead of googling every FP fight--Ops I most certainly read up on or watch vids to at leas have an overview, not fair to everyone else otherwise--and at times it can be a near thing. I need a healer and often times at least one guildie DPS that I know will actually communicate with me and fight in an organized manner. There's no reason to have to wipe because of ignored strategy, and while I accept that sometimes I'm just going to have a sizable repair bill, what I absolutely hate to no end is having to take the blame for any and everything that goes wrong.

 

DPS isn't geared and enrage pops: tank's fault

Kiting the boss and can't stand in one place for heals: tank's fault

Have to hold boss in one location meaning healer has to *gasp* move to get LoS but healer is lazy: tank's fault

Someone else claims to know mechanics of a fight, everyone follows that strategy and wipes: tank's fault

 

The ONLY satisfaction I get during the blame game is when someone quits the group because they died from their own actions or when I get kicked--only happened once, but it was completely out of sorts--and I know that it will firstly take them forever to get a new tank and secondly that if they continue as they have been they're in for a slog to the end.

 

When I first started and ran DPS as most do, I always made it a point to compliment good tanks and heals on a job well done. As a tank I am always appreciative when I get to see good DPS at work and thankful for a healer that knows what the hell a shield is or doesn't claim that kolto shell, etc, isn't available for his class and keeps me from having to pop everything I can every five seconds.

 

Honestly as you get to endgame no role is easy because if your role doesn't call for extremely precise tactics then what it does call for is very good situational awareness, and for all classes competent gearing and knowledge of how to roll your attacks and buffs for maximum effect. Everyone contributes in endgame and one person being off definitely means everyone else is picking up the slack, so I freaking love when everyone else is on point and we're all working as a team.

 

Tangent over. Bottom-line, while praise isn't expected, basic respect is. No biggie though, cause if you can't respect your tank, good luck getting through more than one run a day or ever completing Ops. Better treatment would definitely go a long way towards getting more people to roll tanks though. It is a very fun role, but outside of ze guild it is always a crapshoot as to how things will go down in-game.

 

And cross-server queues will do no one any good.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Prototypemind

[uniz]

having a higher number of players with the same ratio of dps to tanks to healers is exactly what you are asking for. obviously your solution will not work.

 

also I would NOT ever want a pvp server AGAIN in my lfd cross server queueing group. aside from the lack of any etiquette most are specced wrong while the rest think pvp gear will suffice in higher end content.

 

having cross server lfd in rift I will NEVER ever support a cross server anything again after all of the childish antics that I have seen happen to myself and guildies from such players who know they will never see me again.

 

you are not solving your queueing issue but rather will create more problems than we have now.

[sithBracer]

having a higher number of players with the same ratio of dps to tanks to healers is exactly what you are asking for. obviously your solution will not work.

 

also I would NOT ever want a pvp server AGAIN in my lfd cross server queueing group. aside from the lack of any etiquette most are specced wrong while the rest think pvp gear will suffice in higher end content.

 

having cross server lfd in rift I will NEVER ever support a cross server anything again after all of the childish antics that I have seen happen to myself and guildies from such players who know they will never see me again.

 

you are not solving your queueing issue but rather will create more problems than we have now.

 

To add to that I don't want anyone from an rp server in the same queue as me either. From what others have told me they roleplay on the borderline of stupid there.