Kaggath Tournament - Felonious Empire vs Dark Imperium

[Wolfninjajedi]

Yes, Paranoia can make people do crazy things, however we've already discussed it, we've already came up with a few solutions and it was dead.

 

Ah...well I kinda just been skimming really, so may have missed that bit...either that or I just forgot about it.

[Selenial]

Ah...well I kinda just been skimming really, so may have missed that bit...either that or I just forgot about it.

 

It's mainly just Traya's inept abilities with manipulation, her ability to flat out Invade minds, and her ability to control people to her whim...

 

Basically.

[Selenial]

Beni, what was the Outcome of your Vaders Suit vs Force Lightning thread?

 

I've just been thinking, that Vader has an easy escape in space, and the only way Traya could be caught on the ground is Malachor... So this either means Vaders ship has to somehow be boarded and either sabotaged or Destroyed, or Vader has to go to Malachor to kill Traya... I know we stopped this argument already, but I keep seeing it in even my own Scenarios...

 

So, I'd like to know what side people ended up going on in that thread...

I'd also like to know what you guys think of Vader and his Dark Side Nexus... The Nexus wouldn't affect him, as much as Traya and Cronal, would it? It was said the sheer amount of cybernetics he had limited the force's ability to flow through him, and that's basically what Malachor does... While it'd flow freely through Traya, bringing her damn closer to Vader in terms of Power, and It would also flow through Cronal...

 

Both are very proficient in Force Lightning, amplified By the Trayus Core.... Could they short circuit vaders suit? Cause without his prosthetic limbs working, he can't really do much now can he

[Canino]

Beni, what was the Outcome of your Vaders Suit vs Force Lightning thread?

 

I've just been thinking, that Vader has an easy escape in space, and the only way Traya could be caught on the ground is Malachor... So this either means Vaders ship has to somehow be boarded and either sabotaged or Destroyed, or Vader has to go to Malachor to kill Traya... I know we stopped this argument already, but I keep seeing it in even my own Scenarios...

 

So, I'd like to know what side people ended up going on in that thread...

I'd also like to know what you guys think of Vader and his Dark Side Nexus... The Nexus wouldn't affect him, as much as Traya and Cronal, would it? It was said the sheer amount of cybernetics he had limited the force's ability to flow through him, and that's basically what Malachor does... While it'd flow freely through Traya, bringing her damn closer to Vader in terms of Power, and It would also flow through Cronal...

 

Both are very proficient in Force Lightning, amplified By the Trayus Core.... Could they short circuit vaders suit? Cause without his prosthetic limbs working, he can't really do much now can he

 

Vader's power was augmented A. LOT. when he is near dark side relics and amulets. I see him only growing stronger with a nexus than a relic. Hell, he can turn people into rakghouls with a relic. That says something.

[Warren-Stride]

My thought process:

 

What Are They Doing?

 

Darth Vader: Leading the FE on the front lines

Aruk the Great: Recruiting Underworld contacts and hiding out on Bastion

Kir Kanos: Leading the Royal Guard, potentially in special ops

Aurra Sing: Working independently as an assassin, most likely targeting Trench

 

IGBC: Supplying endless credits to the FE

 

Sun Guard: The muscle of the FE, the ground troops specializing in close combat

Royal Guard: Defensive unit, defending important people and places

 

Zann Consortium Navy: Moving discreetly across the galaxy and engaging in major battles

 

 

Darth Traya: Sitting on Malachor V, meditating and coordinating

Trench: Leading the DI’s forces with great tactics and overconfidence

Cronal: On Malachor V, using Dark Sight

HK-47: Assassinating independently, potentially targeting Aruk

 

Santhe/Sienar Technologies: Pumping out ships

 

Shadow Stormtroopers: Main force, using stealth to assault terrain

Sith Assassins: Infiltration and psychological warfare, possibly targeting Aruk

 

Open Circle Fleet: Defensive force, using fighters and power to shield worlds

Malgus’ Stealth Fleet: Offensive fleet used to attack FE worlds without warning

 

 

Things to point out:

 

Aruk and the Zann Consortium Fleet are a good combo. In Force of Corruption, the Zann Consotium was able to move fleets, undetected, through systems which it had corrupted, effectively by bribing the officials and staff monitoring who enters and leaves the system. The same could be done here. While it may not work on any of the five DI's planets, Aruk could bribe the beings on other planets near the DI's planets to let them pass through undetected. This would allow the FE to strike at any one of the DI's worlds without warning.

 

Trench is a weak link. He's mortal, and he's also the DI's only strategist. If he dies, they will be without any coordination or organized military movements. That makes him a prime target for Aurra Sing and Kir Kanos, who would want to assassinate him as soon as possible. Being on a ship and in lots of ship battles, I don't expect Trench to last long against the FE with these two assassins on his tail.

 

Credits make the galaxy go 'round. And the DI has none. The FE has the IGBC and Muunilist, meaning it will pretty much NEVER run out of credits, allowing it to fund whatever production it needs. The DI, on the other hand, has no way of making credits. It has no economy. In fact, most of its worlds are barren with no resources left. Although the DI has access to the ships of Santhe/Sienar Technologies, it has no way of paying for those ships and the production of them. Even if the DI has more production, it's only so long until it can no longer afford that production.

 

The FE has an extremely important advantage: the Royal Guard. The reason they're important is because they dramatically reduce the likelihood that an assassination attempt, be it from the Sith Assassins or HK-47, will succeed. These guys guarded the Emperor, the most hated being in the galaxy. There's a reason. They are the perfect bodyguards for Vader and Aruk, and can also form a strike team with Kir Kanos or Aurra Sing. In contrast, the DI does not have such impressive defenses for their leaders. Unless, that is, they use Sith Assassins. As already pointed out, these guys are kinda freaky, and I would venture to say that Trench would refuse their creepiness in favor of feeling secure on his ship, via his overconfidence.

 

Speaking of overconfidence, that's the DI in a nutshell. Trench dives into things, thinking he's invincible. HK-47 never hesitates to execute an objective. And with Traya's forsight and Cronal's Darksight, the DI will be left feeling like they know the future and what is going to happen. Unfortunately, always in motion, the future is. The DI, or at least Trench, will feel as if it has the entire situation under control, and therefor take more risks that will end up changing whatever visions the two Sith received. If the DI feels that it is going to win, it most likely won't. Future-seeing abilities could actually work against it.

 

Okay, that's enough for one post. But I think I'm finally getting a handle on this debate and how it'll play out. Might make a scenario soon.

[LadyKulvax]

I doubt Vader would be unable to draw on the Dark Side Nexus, given that he could use kinetite or whatever it's called when he had the Muur talisman(?) and couldn't use any lightning at all otherwise.

[Canino]

I doubt Vader would be unable to draw on the Dark Side Nexus, given that he could use kinetite or whatever it's called when he had the Muur talisman(?) and couldn't use any lightning at all otherwise.

 

This is correct.

[Selenial]

I doubt Vader would be unable to draw on the Dark Side Nexus, given that he could use kinetite or whatever it's called when he had the Muur talisman(?) and couldn't use any lightning at all otherwise.

 

The Question was more, Can vader draw on it as Much as other Sith... And it seems like no, to me...

[Canino]

My thought process:

 

What Are They Doing?

 

Darth Vader: Leading the FE on the front lines

Aruk the Great: Recruiting Underworld contacts and hiding out on Bastion

Kir Kanos: Leading the Royal Guard, potentially in special ops

Aurra Sing: Working independently as an assassin, most likely targeting Trench

 

IGBC: Supplying endless credits to the FE

 

Sun Guard: The muscle of the FE, the ground troops specializing in close combat

Royal Guard: Defensive unit, defending important people and places

 

Zann Consortium Navy: Moving discreetly across the galaxy and engaging in major battles

 

 

Darth Traya: Sitting on Malachor V, meditating and coordinating

Trench: Leading the DI’s forces with great tactics and overconfidence

Cronal: On Malachor V, using Dark Sight

HK-47: Assassinating independently, potentially targeting Aruk

 

Santhe/Sienar Technologies: Pumping out ships

 

Shadow Stormtroopers: Main force, using stealth to assault terrain

Sith Assassins: Infiltration and psychological warfare, possibly targeting Aruk

 

Open Circle Fleet: Defensive force, using fighters and power to shield worlds

Malgus’ Stealth Fleet: Offensive fleet used to attack FE worlds without warning

 

 

Things to point out:

 

Aruk and the Zann Consortium Fleet are a good combo. In Force of Corruption, the Zann Consotium was able to move fleets, undetected, through systems which it had corrupted, effectively by bribing the officials and staff monitoring who enters and leaves the system. The same could be done here. While it may not work on any of the five DI's planets, Aruk could bribe the beings on other planets near the DI's planets to let them pass through undetected. This would allow the FE to strike at any one of the DI's worlds without warning.

 

Trench is a weak link. He's mortal, and he's also the DI's only strategist. If he dies, they will be without any coordination or organized military movements. That makes him a prime target for Aurra Sing and Kir Kanos, who would want to assassinate him as soon as possible. Being on a ship and in lots of ship battles, I don't expect Trench to last long against the FE with these two assassins on his tail.

 

Credits make the galaxy go 'round. And the DI has none. The FE has the IGBC and Muunilist, meaning it will pretty much NEVER run out of credits, allowing it to fund whatever production it needs. The DI, on the other hand, has no way of making credits. It has no economy. In fact, most of its worlds are barren with no resources left. Although the DI has access to the ships of Santhe/Sienar Technologies, it has no way of paying for those ships and the production of them. Even if the DI has more production, it's only so long until it can no longer afford that production.

 

The FE has an extremely important advantage: the Royal Guard. The reason they're important is because they dramatically reduce the likelihood that an assassination attempt, be it from the Sith Assassins or HK-47, will succeed. These guys guarded the Emperor, the most hated being in the galaxy. There's a reason. They are the perfect bodyguards for Vader and Aruk, and can also form a strike team with Kir Kanos or Aurra Sing. In contrast, the DI does not have such impressive defenses for their leaders. Unless, that is, they use Sith Assassins. As already pointed out, these guys are kinda freaky, and I would venture to say that Trench would refuse their creepiness in favor of feeling secure on his ship, via his overconfidence.

 

Speaking of overconfidence, that's the DI in a nutshell. Trench dives into things, thinking he's invincible. HK-47 never hesitates to execute an objective. And with Traya's forsight and Cronal's Darksight, the DI will be left feeling like they know the future and what is going to happen. Unfortunately, always in motion, the future is. The DI, or at least Trench, will feel as if it has the entire situation under control, and therefor take more risks that will end up changing whatever visions the two Sith received. If the DI feels that it is going to win, it most likely won't. Future-seeing abilities could actually work against it.

 

Okay, that's enough for one post. But I think I'm finally getting a handle on this debate and how it'll play out. Might make a scenario soon.

 

I think this is actually really correct. It conveys how I feel this Kaggath will go. I also have been formulating a scenario for The Battle of Raxus, and will write/post it soon.

[Canino]

The Question was more, Can vader draw on it as Much as other Sith... And it seems like no, to me...

 

He doesn't need to draw on it more. He is already more powerful than Traya and Cronal. The nexus will make them all stronger, likely keeping the gap between them all the same.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I doubt Vader would be unable to draw on the Dark Side Nexus, given that he could use kinetite or whatever it's called when he had the Muur talisman(?) and couldn't use any lightning at all otherwise.

 

It wasn't the Murr talisman, it was the Kaiburr crystal. But yes no doubt he would be able to draw on the nexus.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Selenial]

My thought process:

Nicely put

Things to point out:

 

Aruk and the Zann Consortium Fleet are a good combo. In Force of Corruption, the Zann Consotium was able to move fleets, undetected, through systems which it had corrupted, effectively by bribing the officials and staff monitoring who enters and leaves the system. The same could be done here. While it may not work on any of the five DI's planets, Aruk could bribe the beings on other planets near the DI's planets to let them pass through undetected. This would allow the FE to strike at any one of the DI's worlds without warning.

 

Ehhh, Traya and Cronal

Besides, I have the exact same advantage, do I not? Just, that this time there's absolutely zero chance of being caught, whilst the DI have people actively scouring the future that could catch the FE...

 

Trench is a weak link. He's mortal, and he's also the DI's only strategist. If he dies, they will be without any coordination or organized military movements. That makes him a prime target for Aurra Sing and Kir Kanos, who would want to assassinate him as soon as possible. Being on a ship and in lots of ship battles, I don't expect Trench to last long against the FE with these two assassins on his tail.

 

Cronal's a Decent strategist, not fantastic, but decent. Besides, you missed one rather Important aspect... Trench doesn't go down with his ship. He was wary enough to keep an Andoan armour onboard should his ship go down, and he's survived the Vaporisation of two cruisers... He also has an incredible touch Harch hide.

 

Credits make the galaxy go 'round. And the DI has none. The FE has the IGBC and Muunilist, meaning it will pretty much NEVER run out of credits, allowing it to fund whatever production it needs. The DI, on the other hand, has no way of making credits. It has no economy. In fact, most of its worlds are barren with no resources left. Although the DI has access to the ships of Santhe/Sienar Technologies, it has no way of paying for those ships and the production of them. Even if the DI has more production, it's only so long until it can no longer afford that production.

 

That's a point, but S/ST has credits themselves too, and we're pretty sure Beni called it and said the IGBC couldn't shut down my funds (Though he said it in a confusing manner )

 

The FE has an extremely important advantage: the Royal Guard. The reason they're important is because they dramatically reduce the likelihood that an assassination attempt, be it from the Sith Assassins or HK-47, will succeed. These guys guarded the Emperor, the most hated being in the galaxy. There's a reason. They are the perfect bodyguards for Vader and Aruk, and can also form a strike team with Kir Kanos or Aurra Sing. In contrast, the DI does not have such impressive defenses for their leaders. Unless, that is, they use Sith Assassins. As already pointed out, these guys are kinda freaky, and I would venture to say that Trench would refuse their creepiness in favor of feeling secure on his ship, via his overconfidence.

That is a good point, but there are ways around everything.... One way, was the fact that HK could pose as a Protocall droid, and I'm pretty sure that in the first Kaggath Heats round Beni revived the rule that the Enemy doesn't know of your allies until they've made an appearance... Also the Scarabs, and the Stealth.... There's always alternatives

 

Speaking of overconfidence, that's the DI in a nutshell. Trench dives into things, thinking he's invincible. HK-47 never hesitates to execute an objective. And with Traya's forsight and Cronal's Darksight, the DI will be left feeling like they know the future and what is going to happen. Unfortunately, always in motion, the future is. The DI, or at least Trench, will feel as if it has the entire situation under control, and therefor take more risks that will end up changing whatever visions the two Sith received. If the DI feels that it is going to win, it most likely won't. Future-seeing abilities could actually work against it.

I don't know why everyone thinks Trench is overconfident. Sure, one time he got outmanoeuvred, but really, it would have happened to any tactician. Trench stayed and blockaded Crystophsis, instead of chasing Skywalkers fleet, because he was wary of a trap, and he's not really been shown to be a cocky character in any other case.

 

Traya always scolded people for not being cautious, and being overconfident in their abilities, I'm not sure she'd be too overconfident... You make a good point about HK though, however he still knows how to be deceptive and devious, he's not a complete wrecking ball...

 

Okay, that's enough for one post. But I think I'm finally getting a handle on this debate and how it'll play out. Might make a scenario soon.

 

I look forward to it, I haven't had many thrown my way for me to counter, I expect good things from you Your Majesty

[Selenial]

He doesn't need to draw on it more. He is already more powerful than Traya and Cronal. The nexus will make them all stronger, likely keeping the gap between them all the same.

 

Not really. If he can't draw on it as much as Traya/Cronal can, which i believe to be the case, the gap between them just got smaller.

 

And what about the force lightning question?

[marcelo_sdk]

I'm leaning towards FE here, simply put, because their forces seem more consistent. DI success depends too much on relative situations, and withou controlling Lianna, Santhe/Sienar won't be able to provide it's assets with total eficiency. The difference between Bonadan and Lianna's shipyards is too great to disconsider that.

[Canino]

Not really. If he can't draw on it as much as Traya/Cronal can, which i believe to be the case, the gap between them just got smaller.

 

And what about the force lightning question?

 

Yes, but as you said, the gap. There is a gap and even with Malachor, it is sizable. Coupled with Vader's own growth from the nexus, Vader is still much more powerful.

[Selenial]

I'm leaning towards FE here, simply put, because their forces seem more consistent. DI success depends too much on relative situations, and withou controlling Lianna, Santhe/Sienar won't be able to provide it's assets with total eficiency. The difference between Bonadan and Lianna's shipyards is too great to disconsider that.

 

Ya, someone took Lianna

[Warren-Stride]

Besides, you missed one rather Important aspect... Trench doesn't go down with his ship. He was wary enough to keep an Andoan armour onboard should his ship go down, and he's survived the Vaporisation of two cruisers... He also has an incredible touch Harch hide.

 

I don't know why everyone thinks Trench is overconfident. Sure, one time he got outmanoeuvred, but really, it would have happened to any tactician. Trench stayed and blockaded Crystophsis, instead of chasing Skywalkers fleet, because he was wary of a trap, and he's not really been shown to be a cocky character in any other case.

 

Trench doesn't go down with his ship? What? When he was about to be killed by the missile Anakin directed back at his ship, he just stood there, closed his eyes, and accepted he was going to die. He didn't make a mad dash for any armor or escape pod. Any assassin would definitely ensure that he's dead.

 

I say he's over confident because he is.

Having won many victories in war, Trench had developed an overconfident personality and prided himself on always being one step ahead of his opponents. However, this overconfidence led to his own demise. Even when his death drew near, Trench did not panic or show distress; he simply accepted his fate.

 

I mean, his ship was literally named: The Invincible.

[Selenial]

Yes, but as you said, the gap. There is a gap and even with Malachor, it is sizable. Coupled with Vader's own growth from the nexus, Vader is still much more powerful.

 

The Gap between Vader and Traya isn't as big as you make it out to be, especially not at the Trayus core. Also given the fact that the constant sapping of his strength at the hands of the Assassins (He can't stay immune to it for long periods of time) would reduce him too... The Assassins alone would have wittled the Exile down to nothing if it wasn't for her Wound, the Assassins would weaken vader a lot before he got to the core, and Given Malachors nature, most of his other troops wouldn't even survive when they got to the surface.

 

Not to mention, on the Surface they'd face Cronal's Sith Spawn, in the forms of Mutated Malachor Storm Beasts. They'd annihilate most of Vaders forces before he even got to the Academy.

 

So yeh, the Assassins would weaken Vader, Traya would simply grow stronger from the Core, and her and Cronal would make quick work of Vader by using lightning to Short Circuit his Suit, and then feeding off his Essence until there's nothing less but a Husk of what once was a man, and his machines.

 

 

Simply Put. Malachor is not a battle Vader can win, but it's one he has to win, to, you know.... Win.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Selenial

[Selenial]

Trench doesn't go down with his ship? What? When he was about to be killed by the missile Anakin directed back at his ship, he just stood there, closed his eyes, and accepted he was going to die. He didn't make a mad dash for any armor or escape pod. Any assassin would definitely ensure that he's dead.

 

Trench Survived that battle, and he Survived the destruction of the Same-Class of Vessel at the Battle of Malastare Narrows.

[Warren-Stride]

I don't understand why we even need to debate Vader vs. Traya + Cronal at the Trayus Core. It's not gonna happen. If the FE gets to Malachor they'd just send the energy weapon attached to the Aggressor-class straight down that giant hole over the core.

[Selenial]

I don't understand why we even need to debate Vader vs. Traya + Cronal at the Trayus Core. It's not gonna happen. If the FE gets to Malachor they'd just send the energy weapon attached to the Aggressor-class straight down that giant hole over the core.

 

They wouldn't even get close enough, the ship would be dragged down into Malachor.

[Wolfninjajedi]

They wouldn't even get close enough, the ship would be dragged down into Malachor.

 

Dat strong gravity!

[Selenial]

Dat strong gravity!

 

[Beniboybling]

They wouldn't even get close enough, the ship would be dragged down into Malachor.

This pretty much. A confrontation on Malachor may be inevitable.

 

Just think, if Vader loses the battle, he'll go to Malachor, if Vader wins the battle, he'll go to Malachor.

 

However such a confrontation won't just be Leadership vs Leadership. Vader is going to land a full invasion force. And Traya will have her own army waiting. Battle of Malachor V! Go!

[Warren-Stride]

They wouldn't even get close enough, the ship would be dragged down into Malachor.

 

Malachor V wookiee:

The gravity of the planet was unstable, which made it dangerous for starships to stay there for very long.

Edited August 15, 2013 by Warren-Stride