Why do assassins do higher burst OUT OF STEALTH?

[Sideblaze]

Well he was also pretty lucky with his crits on that video of they dont crit on they dont hit like a truck. crit on disharge (reckless off course) crit on shock and the extra shock it looks like, maul does hit hard almost no matter what but its white damage so armor/shield probe and more helps alot.

 

Problem with deception/infiltration is that they are to crit reliant and thus can hit like a monster truck or hit like a small toy car.

 

I play both classes in PVP and enjoy em both, but equally geared it will be a game of who gets to pull who out of stealth

 

Really? Because when I'M lucky with crits i don't hit for half as hard as that, and i have more right to.

[AGSThomas]

Assassins are in a really good place right now. Played right, they can be a major threat. Concealment Ops on the other hand are in a bad place. It used to be the other way around like a year ago. Operatives were hated for the amount of damage they did and Assassins were laughed at. I ASSUME that when the Class balance patch comes out concealment ops will get some sort of buff. If I had to guess it will be a crit buff or an execute buff.

[Ottoattack]

In 1v1 concealment operative can do major damage, but compared to deception sin, its just too difficult. Equally skilled and geared deception sin will win, due to the enormous amount of defensive capabilities compared to ops. Not to mention stronger burst. If the stars align and sin got critic on 2 mauls forget it.

[Yestreen]

Lol yeah that is only like 20k dmg. He probably got mauled again and assassinated and of course you don't believe it your an op healer, you have godmode.

 

Assassins have mind sap,lowslash,duplicity,electric ambush+discharge, and shroud. What does operative conceal have over assassin deception?

 

I am not exclusively heal spec. I play leth/conceal quite often.

[Ovanmaru]

A Star Wars MMO with devs that favor force users?! Who could of seen this coming???

 

I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying that I'm not surprised.

[Jimvinny]

As a shadow, I'm jealous that SF/HS hits for so much. You can take a quarter of someone's HP with your opener, and it's a knockdown. I have to kick, then wait a CD before I can actually start doing damage. Meanwhile, my scoundrel buddy has already done 14k with crits on SF and BB.

 

When I'm trolling nodes with him, he always opens first, then I kick. Before I even get my first SS off, the guy is usually half dead.

 

So, to the OP, we don't. Your knockdown hits way harder, and with crits, you've done way more damage in the first two blows than what we can do.

[jillun]

As a shadow, I'm jealous that SF/HS hits for so much. You can take a quarter of someone's HP with your opener, and it's a knockdown. I have to kick, then wait a CD before I can actually start doing damage. Meanwhile, my scoundrel buddy has already done 14k with crits on SF and BB.

 

When I'm trolling nodes with him, he always opens first, then I kick. Before I even get my first SS off, the guy is usually half dead.

 

So, to the OP, we don't. Your knockdown hits way harder, and with crits, you've done way more damage in the first two blows than what we can do.

 

You have an execute.

[Jimvinny]

You have an execute.

 

True, but that's really not what is being discussed here. Burst out of stealth however, is. And in that arena, operatives/ scoundrels have higher burst potential, in both the first attack, and when considering the second blow as well.

[JohnElias]

As a shadow, I'm jealous that SF/HS hits for so much. You can take a quarter of someone's HP with your opener, and it's a knockdown. I have to kick, then wait a CD before I can actually start doing damage. Meanwhile, my scoundrel buddy has already done 14k with crits on SF and BB.

 

When I'm trolling nodes with him, he always opens first, then I kick. Before I even get my first SS off, the guy is usually half dead.

 

So, to the OP, we don't. Your knockdown hits way harder, and with crits, you've done way more damage in the first two blows than what we can do.

 

With Recklessness both your DIscharge and Shock are sure to crit. Once you Spike, you can maul, and maul again, and then shock and discharge, AND you get a 4sec mezz every 15 secs. Please don't tell me Op burst is better than Sins, because within those same seconds, we can Hidden Strike, and shiv/lacerate for a 4k crit MAX. We can backstab right after Hidden Strike but than we lose on our Acid Blade dot.

 

AND our backstab is not a guaranteed crit. What about after our opening burst? It's laughable damage if you have cool downs up.

 

Maul - 9K / Hidden Strike - 7K

Discharge 7K (full stacks [3]) / Backstab - 6K

Shock - 6K / Shiv or Lacerate - 4K

 

(THese are crit numbers, a rough average of what I've seen and heard)

 

If you have trouble outbursting an Operative as a Sin, it's more of a l2p issue than anything else.

[JohnElias]

True, but that's really not what is being discussed here. Burst out of stealth however, is. And in that arena, operatives/ scoundrels have higher burst potential, in both the first attack, and when considering the second blow as well.

 

I don't know if serious or trolling

[kennethdale]

With Recklessness both your DIscharge and Shock are sure to crit. Once you Spike, you can maul, and maul again, and then shock and discharge, AND you get a 4sec mezz every 15 secs. Please don't tell me Op burst is better than Sins, because within those same seconds, we can Hidden Strike, and shiv/lacerate for a 4k crit MAX. We can backstab right after Hidden Strike but than we lose on our Acid Blade dot.

 

AND our backstab is not a guaranteed crit. What about after our opening burst? It's laughable damage if you have cool downs up.

 

Maul - 9K / Hidden Strike - 7K

Discharge 7K (full stacks [3]) / Backstab - 6K

Shock - 6K / Shiv or Lacerate - 4K

 

(THese are crit numbers, a rough average of what I've seen and heard)

 

If you have trouble outbursting an Operative as a Sin, it's more of a l2p issue than anything else.

 

Lawlwut? Guaranteed a crit eh? Wasn't aware 60% was the same as 100%. Can't tell you how many times I've popped recklessness and had it fade without ever losing a stack. As for the rest, where else are we guaranteed crits? Sure our stuff hits like a truck IF it crits but non-crit maul is a joke. Its really not comparable in terms of anything because they are different classes. I have had good ops pop me and just wreck me, and I've had bad ones who barely even dent my hp. Comparing cc is a bit silly too since ops get a ton of mezz, including AoE which sins do not.

[Chiltonium]

As a shadow, I'm jealous that SF/HS hits for so much. You can take a quarter of someone's HP with your opener, and it's a knockdown. I have to kick, then wait a CD before I can actually start doing damage. Meanwhile, my scoundrel buddy has already done 14k with crits on SF and BB.

 

When I'm trolling nodes with him, he always opens first, then I kick. Before I even get my first SS off, the guy is usually half dead.

 

So, to the OP, we don't. Your knockdown hits way harder, and with crits, you've done way more damage in the first two blows than what we can do.

 

you also only need to get someone to 30% hp. You can also maul multiple times in a row for more than our backstab (our second hardest hitter next to hidden stirke) while we have to wait 12 seconds. And with recklessness you are garaunteed to crit. Nothing like a poor operative coming out of stealth and hidden strike AND backstab -not- critting. The enemy dusts himself off, turns to glare at us, and we cry.

 

The thing about operatives is we are -capable- of doing higher sustained burst, in that IF all of our abilities crit every single time, an assassin or shadow would not hold a candle to us. But they do not. In fact, less than half the time. No one wants to play a class based on luck. We need some garauntees in our life. And I have a 55 sin AND operative. The sin just got 10x better in 1.7 (major surviability increase) and 2.0 (huge huge burst and sustained increase)

 

We went from being ridiculous bursty monsters who'd kill you before you ever stood up then laugh at you, to the forgotten step children who everyone hates but cant remember why. We got nerfed, then everyone else got buffed, and we got nerfed some more.

 

One example I like to use for anyone who plays League of Legends, ops are the Teemo's of SWTOR. We are -not- as strong as people try to make us sound, we're just REALLY, REALLY annoying. We're opportunistic bastards who will take advantage of situations you dont want us to.

 

Example: Oh hey, im a sorc, im at 50% hp and im spamming lighting on this dude, theres no one in sight, I dont need to bubble. AHAHAHAHAH EAT LIGHTNING SUCKER!!! *operative pops out with a hidden strike, backstab, shiv, sorc is dead before they can move* OMG OMG OMG OPERATIVE IS OP KILLED ME IN ONE HIT.

 

They tend to forget they were standing there at half hp unbubbled and ignoring their surroundings, but since they werent expecting it and didnt want to die, their memory becomes altered and Arnold Schwartzanegger popped out behind them with a tree and beat them into the ground with it. It didnt happen, but since they're so annoyed and pissed off about THEIR F*CK up, they'll claim OP till the end of their days.

[Chiltonium]

Lawlwut? Guaranteed a crit eh? Wasn't aware 60% was the same as 100%. Can't tell you how many times I've popped recklessness and had it fade without ever losing a stack. As for the rest, where else are we guaranteed crits? Sure our stuff hits like a truck IF it crits but non-crit maul is a joke. Its really not comparable in terms of anything because they are different classes. I have had good ops pop me and just wreck me, and I've had bad ones who barely even dent my hp. Comparing cc is a bit silly too since ops get a ton of , including AoE which sins do not.

 

your base crit rate must blow. 60% + 35% is 95%, which is what my sin gets when I pop recklessness on force abilites.

[Jimvinny]

your base crit rate must blow. 60% + 35% is 95%, which is what my sin gets when I pop recklessness on force abilites.

 

NO one has 35% chance, especially in PVP gear.

 

Also, in regards to the earlier posts, hidden strike is on a much shorter cd than spike, so you can vanish out and knock someone down again rather quickly. both classes have their advantages, but OUT OF STEALTH, Operative burst is still better.

[IronmanSS]

your base crit rate must blow. 60% + 35% is 95%, which is what my sin gets when I pop recklessness on force abilites.

 

If you have 35% base crit post 2.0 on PvE or PvP gear - you're doing it wrong. Just assume that BW is trolling everyone with the default mods in the gear they hand you (WTS Crit mods, also... Alacrity for Tanks???).

Edited August 30, 2013 by IronmanSS

[Chiltonium]

NO one has 35% chance, especially in PVP gear.

 

Also, in regards to the earlier posts, hidden strike is on a much shorter cd than spike, so you can vanish out and knock someone down again rather quickly. both classes have their advantages, but OUT OF STEALTH, Operative burst is still better.

 

Not sure why anyone would waste their cloaking screen like that. Just stun em. Lasts longer, you dont blow your cloaking screen, and either way you white bar them. You only vanish and hidden strike again if you're getting your *** beat.

[JohnElias]

Lawlwut? Guaranteed a crit eh? Wasn't aware 60% was the same as 100%. Can't tell you how many times I've popped recklessness and had it fade without ever losing a stack. As for the rest, where else are we guaranteed crits? Sure our stuff hits like a truck IF it crits but non-crit maul is a joke. Its really not comparable in terms of anything because they are different classes. I have had good ops pop me and just wreck me, and I've had bad ones who barely even dent my hp. Comparing cc is a bit silly too since ops get a ton of mezz, including AoE which sins do not.

 

I know man, but a Sin with Recklessness is in its own right more likely to crit than an Operative.

 

Operatives don't have abilities that increase their crit chances significantly. (PvE set bonus only for PvEers unless we want to lose expertise.)

 

But the same can be said about Operatives too, when we do crit, the highest I've hit for was 8ishK (Hidden Strike, NOT backstab. Backstab does slightly less damage.), whereas my Sin friend mauled for over 10K! Get this, I even heard him yell out, "10K discharge baby!" once lmao, priceless.

 

The point is, if both classes don't crit, it's similar damage, but if both classes do crit, the Sin wins the burst fight. (Of course due to the multiple skill tree abilities that increase damage of maul if it crits)

[Ravashakk]

There is a reason the less loyal ops rerolled assassin...and it wasn't cuz operative dmg is better lol. Better defensive CDs, cc/utility out the ***, being able to mitigate more dmg > spot healing in a LOT of situations.

 

The ONLY reason ppl play ops over assassins aside from playstyle fun is to heal as an op.

[Chiltonium]

There is a reason the less loyal ops rerolled assassin...and it wasn't cuz operative dmg is better lol. Better defensive CDs, cc/utility out the ***, being able to mitigate more dmg > spot healing in a LOT of situations.

 

The ONLY reason ppl play ops over assassins aside from playstyle fun is to heal as an op.

 

yep, I have both a sin and an op, I only swap back to the op because I miss the sounds and animations of the stabbings. If I'm going to pvp, I do it on the assassin. Operative has far too little survivability for the damage it does.

 

Snipers, maras,, sins, and juggs popping numbers that make us look like little girls while having some ridiculous survival. Snipers and maras more than sins, but a good sin can still keep his damage reduction at 50% for 24 sec straight.

[cycao]

With Recklessness both your DIscharge and Shock are sure to crit.

 

You would be surprised how often recklessness doesn't allow a crit.

[Sideblaze]

True, but that's really not what is being discussed here. Burst out of stealth however, is. And in that arena, operatives/ scoundrels have higher burst potential, in both the first attack, and when considering the second blow as well.

 

You are so full of **** my friend.

[Kourage]

Cause Assassins don't have heals.

[ripamorame]

Also i don't think i have seen it mentioned but sins have a easier energy management system. So not alone having less burst and less cd's we have a a more unforgiving resource with Ta's compared to force which regen which means you can dump all your force with no down time.

 

 

 

Also why do our set bonuses suck for dps.

[WilliamMarshal]

Uh no they dont. Assassins run out of energy after 2 mauls. Ive never played a sin past a certain point because OP is much more fun but I seen lvl 55 gameplay and pvp, they do 2 mauls, and have to wait a few secs to do it again before they are completely out and gotta rely on free shocks. I run out of energy after a backstab, hidden strike, explosive probe, corrosive dart, stun, tons of lacerates, and then I adren probe and go again. You guys throw out numbers like 7k backstabs vs their 10k mauls, yet you obviously forget to mention acid blades damage and darts damage. If you actually do a rotation properly you can keep acide blade going for 10-12 secs for 6-7k + damage as well as potentially 13k frontload damage from hidden strike and backstab, and if you use probe another potential 5-6k damage, all the while corrosive dart is ticking for 800 each hit. Also idk about you guys but my lacerations hit for average of 4k and when they proc the extra hit its an additional 1k+.

[lordnathanial]

Uh no they dont. Assassins run out of energy after 2 mauls. Ive never played a sin past a certain point because OP is much more fun but I seen lvl 55 gameplay and pvp, they do 2 mauls, and have to wait a few secs to do it again before they are completely out and gotta rely on free shocks. I run out of energy after a backstab, hidden strike, explosive probe, corrosive dart, stun, tons of lacerates, and then I adren probe and go again. You guys throw out numbers like 7k backstabs vs their 10k mauls, yet you obviously forget to mention acid blades damage and darts damage. If you actually do a rotation properly you can keep acide blade going for 10-12 secs for 6-7k + damage as well as potentially 13k frontload damage from hidden strike and backstab, and if you use probe another potential 5-6k damage, all the while corrosive dart is ticking for 800 each hit. Also idk about you guys but my lacerations hit for average of 4k and when they proc the extra hit its an additional 1k+.

 

Well said sir...