Why do assassins do higher burst OUT OF STEALTH?

[Sideblaze]

I find this completely retarded, Plus, the fact we don't get a autocrit cooldown that instantly recharges a ranged version of backstab.

 

Call it QQ, But i find this kinda stupid, As a concealment operative, my burst should be better, and the assassins should have better sustained damage.

 

Got the jump on an assassin, Acid HS>Shiv>Debil>Explosive probe> Laceratex3 , Not dead yet, Turns around, leg slashes me, and proceeds to hit me with a 9k crit maul followed by a force potency+Discharge + Shock, that kills me outright. Needless to say, i raged.

 

Thoughts? Is this a gear issue? I find this really stupid otherwise.

 

Optimized partisian. 1970 Expertise, 75 surge 817(Currently) power.

[BraaxusKun]

The only way you're gonna beat an assassin in concealment is by pulling some fancy tactics like sapping them and dropping an orbital on them, then proceding to hidden strike the exact moment orbital hits them, root them and roll away (or sneak for 50% movement increase) and heal whatever damage you take

[Sideblaze]

So basically, what you are saying is, Assassins are able to outdamage the one class that should be able to be on-par with them, Grand.

[BraaxusKun]

So basically, what you are saying is, Assassins are able to outdamage the one class that should be able to be on-par with them, Grand.

 

in most cases if you get the opener on an assassin you should be able to kill them fairly easily, you have just as much burst as they do except you're far squishier - try popping shield probe before they come out of your stun, when u take some dmg cc and heal up

[ManCandy]

Beating a Sin is all about who pulls who out of stealth first. Your opener has as much potential damage as a sins. You just have to play smarter as a concealment operative mostly with when to burn defensive cd's.

[jillun]

None of you read the op. And none of you play concealment.

 

Answer to the op : they got glowstick, we don't. End of the story.

[Azarai]

Best tactic is most Assassins don't know how to react to being flattened on their face so the first thing they do, like in your case, is low slash as they get up. I ALWAYS pop dodge once the knockdown wears off because of that so its forces them to use all force attacks or most of the time they low slash anyway and blow it. That leaves just their hard-stun left which you can CC break and finish the job.

 

But in all honesty they don't need all their CD's to kill us, but we need all our CD's to kill them which is absolutely retarded indeed.

[JohnElias]

Agreed. Way too much work to do as opposed to what they have to do in order to achieve a kill.

[TheSeanJ]

That leaves just their hard-stun left which you can CC break and finish the job.

 

 

If you break their hard stun, all they have to do is vanish/sap and seethe.....game over.

 

1v1 against a good player, you have to eat their entire burst and they have to eat yours to prevent the vanish/sap and regen.

[Sideblaze]

I just find it really mind boggling that people consider us OP when the Assassin has way more tools than us (Tools we should have ourselves, like the energy out of stealth, but i digress.) and are able to outdamage us out of stealth. Hell, they even got multiple damage types.

[Werdan]

This is why the devs need to look at the Deception tree to see how to fix Concealment. They have a ton of great tools for both damage and mitigation.

 

My Op is fairly well geared but I don't think I've ever hit for much more than 8k and that was against an undergeared Sage or Sorc. Those hits are few and far between. My HS normally crits for 6.5-7.3k while my Sins Maul (with proc) can crit up to 10k in similar gear (Op has higher main stat, sin has higher HP).

 

Op was the last Imp AC for me (done all 8). I probably won't make any more toons (I'm actually out of slots). I like Op and want to keep playing it but damn if it isn't frustrating going up against some of these FOTM classes.

[Azarai]

If you break their hard stun, all they have to do is vanish/sap and seethe.....game over.

 

1v1 against a good player, you have to eat their entire burst and they have to eat yours to prevent the vanish/sap and regen.

 

Not necessarily because most of them love to use their Force Shroud since they know all of our attacks are tech attacks, which gives them 3 secs of God mode against us. Everything is situational, you just have to be mindful of what CD's they use, and if they do vanish without force shroud up and sap you and they aren't dotted that's a huge fail on the operative's fault.

[Yestreen]

 

Got the jump on an assassin, Acid HS>Shiv>Debil>Explosive probe> Laceratex3 , Not dead yet, Turns around, leg slashes me, and proceeds to hit me with a 9k crit maul followed by a force potency+Discharge + Shock, that kills me outright. Needless to say, i raged.

 

 

So he killed you with 3 moves within a 4 second stun? I dont believe it.

 

Even if he did, there were several things you could have done to avoid it:

1) Kite with sever tendon + Blaster, Dots and heals (Yes this actually works - I do it all the time against other melee)

2) pop evasion/shield probe when you see his maul buff

3) Vanish to reset the fight when you see his maul buff, then wait for it to wear off.

4) Wait for his buffs to disappear before you open on him

[MarkXXIV]

This is why the devs need to look at the Deception tree to see how to fix Concealment. They have a ton of great tools for both damage and mitigation.

 

My Op is fairly well geared but I don't think I've ever hit for much more than 8k and that was against an undergeared Sage or Sorc. Those hits are few and far between. My HS normally crits for 6.5-7.3k while my Sins Maul (with proc) can crit up to 10k in similar gear (Op has higher main stat, sin has higher HP).

 

Op was the last Imp AC for me (done all 8). I probably won't make any more toons (I'm actually out of slots). I like Op and want to keep playing it but damn if it isn't frustrating going up against some of these FOTM classes.

 

Assassin isn't fotm it is just popular because its an assassin. Assassin has a ton of issues but so does dps operative. At least operative has the most overpowered spec in the game in heals.

Edited August 6, 2013 by MarkXXIV

[MarkXXIV]

So he killed you with 3 moves within a 4 second stun? I dont believe it.

 

Even if he did, there were several things you could have done to avoid it:

1) Kite with sever tendon + Blaster, Dots and heals (Yes this actually works - I do it all the time against other melee)

2) pop evasion/shield probe when you see his maul buff

3) Vanish to reset the fight when you see his maul buff, then wait for it to wear off.

4) Wait for his buffs to disappear before you open on him

 

Lol yeah that is only like 20k dmg. He probably got mauled again and assassinated and of course you don't believe it your an op healer, you have godmode.

 

Assassins have mind sap,lowslash,duplicity,electric ambush+discharge, and shroud. What does operative conceal have over assassin deception?

Edited August 6, 2013 by MarkXXIV

[Werdan]

Assassin isn't fotm it is just popular because its an assassin. Assassin has a ton of issues but so does dps operative. At least operative has the most overpowered spec in the game in heals.

 

There are more Deception Sins (and mirrors) than the other 2 Sin specs combined. Hell, there are more Deception Sins than Conceal and Lethality Ops combined. They arguably have the best opening and closing burst in the game. Before 2.0 all you saw we're Darkness Sins in DPS gear. I think it's fair to call DecSins FOTM.

 

As far as Heal Ops are concerned, I agree. They are the best healers in the game and even I would call for some nerfs to their tree (and have).

[snave]

So he killed you with 3 moves within a 4 second stun? I dont believe it.

 

Even if he did, there were several things you could have done to avoid it:

1) Kite with sever tendon + Blaster, Dots and heals (Yes this actually works - I do it all the time against other melee)

2) pop evasion/shield probe when you see his maul buff

3) Vanish to reset the fight when you see his maul buff, then wait for it to wear off.

4) Wait for his buffs to disappear before you open on him

 

I'm not suggesting that assassins can kill people in 4 seconds exactly but I'd like you to look at the video below and consider it

 

http://youtu.be/mRu9s0YK7Oc

 

In 7 seconds I was taken from 29725 health down to 3324 health, that's 26401 damage done to me in about 5 GCDs. I have 2018 expertise and full level 65 pvp hilts / mods / etc ....

 

Granted I could have popped my breaker and vanished, I could have just avoided a 1v1 with the assassin I'm just submitting the video to highlight the rather insane burst the class has. The only way I'm going to get burst anywhere near that is on a 23k sorc who just turned 55 and doesn't know what they're doing.

[Griad]

Well he was also pretty lucky with his crits on that video of they dont crit on they dont hit like a truck. crit on disharge (reckless off course) crit on shock and the extra shock it looks like, maul does hit hard almost no matter what but its white damage so armor/shield probe and more helps alot.

 

Problem with deception/infiltration is that they are to crit reliant and thus can hit like a monster truck or hit like a small toy car.

 

I play both classes in PVP and enjoy em both, but equally geared it will be a game of who gets to pull who out of stealth

[jillun]

I play both classes in PVP and enjoy em both, but equally geared it will be a game of who gets to pull who out of stealth

 

 

As much as i would like it to be true, it unfortunately isn't.

[TheSeanJ]

Not necessarily because most of them love to use their Force Shroud since they know all of our attacks are tech attacks, which gives them 3 secs of God mode against us. Everything is situational, you just have to be mindful of what CD's they use, and if they do vanish without force shroud up and sap you and they aren't dotted that's a huge fail on the operative's fault.

 

 

Well if you try to vanish/sap regen when they have a dot on them because you are trying to prevent them from doing it to you that's a fail on the operatives part, cause once it ticks breaks CC and back in combat.

 

Exhibit A: http://www.twitch.tv/darkyoda11/c/2708226

Assassin vs Operative....No contest.....lucky crits though too

Edited August 7, 2013 by TheSeanJ

[JohnElias]

Problem with deception/infiltration is that they are to crit reliant and thus can hit like a monster truck or hit like a small toy car.

 

What about Operatives? Even with crits we hit like a small toy truck. God forbid if our Hidden Strike doesn't crit.

 

7Kish Hidden Strikes are "meh" at best. Especially since it is our hardest hitting ability ONLY in stealth.

 

I've seen other main abilities hit for more.

 

As much as I'd appreciate a burst buff to Operatives, I doubt it will happen. The least the devs can do is give us some survival buffs to even the playing field a little. I do fine on my Op, only because I've been playing it for so long, but I'd really appreciate it if we could become viable for Rateds. Giving up my DPS spot to smashtards and snipers just because they are the viable classes in Ranked really sucks.

[Azarai]

http://www.torhead.com/ability/cAzQA13/recklessness

 

Gives them a full stack of discharge and nearly guarantees a crit for shock. Easily can take off over half of anybody's health, so then all they have to 'hope' for is one crit on maul to get you into assassinate level, which as you can see with Yoda's fight against Spitta, isn't difficult at all. If any class is absolutely reliant on crits, its ops/scoundrels. An assassin has damn near guaranteed crits for their force attacks, which is reset for them every time they go back into stealth. Why Ops aren't given the same treatment is beyond me. Well, I know why. It's because people QQ'd and cried so much about us at the start of the game, our class alone is what broke PvP and made the million + users that left the game after a few months unsub /saracasm

[Griad]

http://www.torhead.com/ability/cAzQA13/recklessness

 

Gives them a full stack of discharge and nearly guarantees a crit for shock. Easily can take off over half of anybody's health, so then all they have to 'hope' for is one crit on maul to get you into assassinate level, which as you can see with Yoda's fight against Spitta, isn't difficult at all. If any class is absolutely reliant on crits, its ops/scoundrels. An assassin has damn near guaranteed crits for their force attacks, which is reset for them every time they go back into stealth. Why Ops aren't given the same treatment is beyond me. Well, I know why. It's because people QQ'd and cried so much about us at the start of the game, our class alone is what broke PvP and made the million + users that left the game after a few months unsub /saracasm

 

Its not completly reset everytime, but close cd for reckless is 1.30 min cloaking will take of 1 min but then again it is close.

 

I still think that we should be able to use HS out off stealth just without the KD, would enable us to deal some more damage, would be nice if we could get a crit/surge bonus to HS when used from stealth, but then it might be OP.

[Azarai]

Its not completly reset everytime, but close cd for reckless is 1.30 min cloaking will take of 1 min but then again it is close.

 

I still think that we should be able to use HS out off stealth just without the KD, would enable us to deal some more damage, would be nice if we could get a crit/surge bonus to HS when used from stealth, but then it might be OP.

 

Set bonus is what gives them the third stack of recklessness plus lowers the CD by 15 secs. So they only have to be out of stealth for 15 secs before it will be reset. I don't see why we can't have a talent like that for tech attacks but leave it at two charges since all of our attacks are tech. Make it have like an internal proc CD of like 10 secs so you can't HS/BS out of stealth and do 15k in damage before somebody gets up cause then we'd be back to square one with ppl and their torches and pitchforks calling for the nerfbat again.

[Griad]

Set bonus is what gives them the third stack of recklessness plus lowers the CD by 15 secs. So they only have to be out of stealth for 15 secs before it will be reset. I don't see why we can't have a talent like that for tech attacks but leave it at two charges since all of our attacks are tech. Make it have like an internal proc CD of like 10 secs so you can't HS/BS out of stealth and do 15k in damage before somebody gets up cause then we'd be back to square one with ppl and their torches and pitchforks calling for the nerfbat again.

 

Dont want the angry mob back again.