Darth Marr is the only smart Sith around.

[Ashuranrx]

Emperor: cares only for himself. Wants to sacrifce the entire galaxy to empower himself, so that he can conquer other galaxies,

 

Darth Malgus: cares only for himself. Undermines and weakens the Dark Council, so that he can stage a coup.

 

Darth Jadus: cares only for himself. LOL at his fail schemes to obtain power.

 

Darth Baras: cares only for himself. Pretended to be emperor and failed. At least Malgus didn't pretend and actually tried to become one.

 

Darth Thanaton: Mad and obsessive with power, and tried to kill everyone in his way. Doesn't give a crab about everything else.

 

Darth Zash: Same as Thanaton, but failed more.

 

Did I miss any more major failed Darths? Darth Marr is the only that actually cares for the empire. He wants the empire to take Voidstar; he realizes the Sith is screwing the empire over with their endless bickering and undermining each other for power; he realizes the stupidity of the Sith is destroying the empire from within; he plots to steal Isotope-5 from right under the Hutts and the Republic's nose; he is the only that actually wants to empire to win.

 

Empire needs more Darths like Darth Marr.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Ashuranrx

[Euphrosyne]

It seems faintly ridiculous to criticize Sith for "only thinking about themselves". That's, like, the whole point.

[captaincr]

Darth Marr is an unusual Sith to say the least.

 

The whole concept of the Dark Side and the Sith is that it values personal power over everything else and revenge is a virtue to the dark side.

 

Each individual Sith's goal is based around domination and to gain understanding through the acquisition of power. If you don't see yourself subjugating your rivals who are weaker then you then you are never going to live up to your potential. If you don't see yourself craving the power of the Emperor then you will eventually fall to someone who does and will climb over you to get there.

 

The Empire, the soldiers of the empire and the citizens of the Empire are just a tool to a Sith to not only gain control of the galaxy, but get that final revenge on the Jedi.

 

All of the Sith walking around goveling to the Emperor are either weak (big problem in TOR empire) or lying and biding their time until they can gather their resources and over throw the Empire.

 

Remember Darth Vader really only obeyed the Empeor until he could over throw him and take his place. But the ships, soldiers, the citizens of the Empire really meant nothing to him unless they could help him achieve his goal.

 

Darth Marr was a powerful Sith, but he had a powerful weakness, he cared about the success of serving the Empire.

[Ashuranrx]

That is what I thought too, until I completed Scourge's background quests. Scourge describes the ancient Sith, the true Sith, as more of a warrior culture society. I guess the closest comparison to the ancient Sith in real life is the Spartan. The ancient Sith values strength and abhors weakness, but they still build their communities around families and working together. They would conquer lesser planets and races, but they don't go at each other's throat at every chance just to prove that they are the top dog. I think the emperor screwed everything up by being absent and left a vacuum of power, which destabilize the hierarchy. I hope the Jedi Knight kills him eventually and then the Sith Warrior takes the chance to become the new emperior. That would be awesome.

[Bleeters]

I'm not sure I'd describe Malgus as stupid, much of what he tried to accomplish was for the percieved good of the Empire. Greater diversity and acknowledgement of strength in other species than humans and purebloods, for one. He's also not wrong in his assessement of the dark council - much of the Empire's deteriorating state can be blamed on their infighting. I do find it somewhat ironic that much of what he tries to accomplish, Marr puts into motion afterwards anyway, though.

 

Marr is... I don't know what to make of him yet. I'm not convinced he isn't ultimately thinking of his own ambitions - I mean, he's Sith - but he at least seems canny enough to recognise that his power is meaningless if the Empire crumbles around him, which is more than I can say for most others in his position.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Bleeters

[BacaWicket]

Emperor: cares only for himself. Wants to sacrifce the entire galaxy to empower himself, so that he can conquer other galaxies,

 

Darth Malgus: cares only for himself. Undermines and weakens the Dark Council, so that he can stage a coup.

 

Darth Jadus: cares only for himself. LOL at his fail schemes to obtain power.

 

Darth Baras: cares only for himself. Pretended to be emperor and failed. At least Malgus didn't pretend and actually tried to become one.

 

Darth Thanaton: Mad and obsessive with power, and tried to kill everyone in his way. Doesn't give a crab about everything else.

 

Darth Zash: Same as Thanaton, but failed more.

 

Did I miss any more major failed Darths? Darth Marr is the only that actually cares for the empire. He wants the empire to take Voidstar; he realizes the Sith is screwing the empire over with their endless bickering and undermining each other for power; he realizes the stupidity of the Sith is destroying the empire from within; he plots to steal Isotope-5 from right under the Hutts and the Republic's nose; he is the only that actually wants to empire to win.

 

Empire needs more Darths like Darth Marr.

 

I aggree with 2 sith malgus and marr the rest care only for themselves and dont actually care for the empire

[Ausstig]

I disagree about Jadus being stupid and only thinking of himself. He wants to change the Empire, reshape it into a place where all species are equal. He believes in the democratization of fear. Also his plan to gain power is very smart and well thought out, him and Darth Marr are the two Sith I feel would be most likely to reform the Empire and working together they could make it work.

[_biddan_]

I disagree about Jadus being stupid and only thinking of himself. He wants to change the Empire, reshape it into a place where all species are equal. He believes in the democratization of fear. Also his plan to gain power is very smart and well thought out, him and Darth Marr are the two Sith I feel would be most likely to reform the Empire and working together they could make it work.

 

so smart that a single agent obliterated it.

[Bleeters]

I disagree about Jadus being stupid and only thinking of himself. He wants to change the Empire, reshape it into a place where all species are equal. He believes in the democratization of fear. Also his plan to gain power is very smart and well thought out, him and Darth Marr are the two Sith I feel would be most likely to reform the Empire and working together they could make it work.

If by "equal" you mean "reducing everyone but himself to jittering, ferak husks living in a constant state of terror", then yes.

 

I mean, sure. If everyone in the entire galaxy is like that, then that's a curious kind of equality. The Empire would also disintegrate and be reduced to pre-historic barbarism within a week. Much as he thinks perpetual fear is really cool and everybody should get to experience it all day erry day, it's not exactly the foundation on which stable societies operate.

Edited August 3, 2013 by Bleeters

[Frenesi]

Darth Marr is an unusual Sith to say the least.

 

The whole concept of the Dark Side and the Sith is that it values personal power over everything else and revenge is a virtue to the dark side.

 

Each individual Sith's goal is based around domination and to gain understanding through the acquisition of power. If you don't see yourself subjugating your rivals who are weaker then you then you are never going to live up to your potential. If you don't see yourself craving the power of the Emperor then you will eventually fall to someone who does and will climb over you to get there.

 

The Empire, the soldiers of the empire and the citizens of the Empire are just a tool to a Sith to not only gain control of the galaxy, but get that final revenge on the Jedi.

 

All of the Sith walking around goveling to the Emperor are either weak (big problem in TOR empire) or lying and biding their time until they can gather their resources and over throw the Empire.

 

Remember Darth Vader really only obeyed the Empeor until he could over throw him and take his place. But the ships, soldiers, the citizens of the Empire really meant nothing to him unless they could help him achieve his goal.

 

Darth Marr was a powerful Sith, but he had a powerful weakness, he cared about the success of serving the Empire.

 

Can't say he is unusual. I believe he just cares more about personal power: in force, combat mastery etc. He cares for Empire as long as it gives him opportunity to fight. After Makeb sith warrior can accuse him in making power grab. And he answers something like "Leave politics to the Dark Council, my place is on the battlefield". He's just what sith are supposed to be - warrior, not backstabbing idiot.

[ApostleThirst]

Malgus's actions are part of a gambit to reform the Empire. If he had won, then he would have been able to reshape the Empire to be accepting of all species, thus vastly increasing its numbers and ensuring it won the war with the Galactic Republic. If he lost, he still did enough damage to force the Empire to accept aliens into their ranks to be able to survive.

 

Thanaton heavily disapproves of infighting amongst the Sith, which is why he wants to purge the Inquisitor in the first place. Zash, as you know, had you kill Skotia so she could get her position, and then you kill her. Thanaton sees you as sabotaging the Empire for this and thus a liability that must be removed. (He's also a traditionalist of humans and Purebloods only, so if you're an alien that also factors in).

 

Zash is just trying to survive. Why she didn't just capture a Jedi and use their body, I don't know. Perhaps she feared Republic trying to reclaim her victim, especially during the ritual.

 

Baras was the Sith representative at the Treaty of Coruscant. He also had you pretty much taking out a number of Republic generals in a huge preemptive strike.

 

I have not played the Agent storyline, so I cannot speak for Darth Jadus, but using Imperial Intelligence as your primary tool seems like a pretty good idea to me.

 

 

I don't understand the need to automatically assume that people were idiots. Most of these characters had pretty good reasons to do what they needed to do.

[ZirusZero]

Malgus's actions are part of a gambit to reform the Empire. If he had won, then he would have been able to reshape the Empire to be accepting of all species, thus vastly increasing its numbers and ensuring it won the war with the Galactic Republic. If he lost, he still did enough damage to force the Empire to accept aliens into their ranks to be able to survive.

 

Thanaton heavily disapproves of infighting amongst the Sith, which is why he wants to purge the Inquisitor in the first place. Zash, as you know, had you kill Skotia so she could get her position, and then you kill her. Thanaton sees you as sabotaging the Empire for this and thus a liability that must be removed. (He's also a traditionalist of humans and Purebloods only, so if you're an alien that also factors in).

 

Zash is just trying to survive. Why she didn't just capture a Jedi and use their body, I don't know. Perhaps she feared Republic trying to reclaim her victim, especially during the ritual.

 

Baras was the Sith representative at the Treaty of Coruscant. He also had you pretty much taking out a number of Republic generals in a huge preemptive strike.

 

I have not played the Agent storyline, so I cannot speak for Darth Jadus, but using Imperial Intelligence as your primary tool seems like a pretty good idea to me.

 

 

I don't understand the need to automatically assume that people were idiots. Most of these characters had pretty good reasons to do what they needed to do.

Jadus is a very competent sith lord. He does many things to secure his goals in ways you I cannot discuss unless you play the IA story.

[Bleeters]

Zash is just trying to survive. Why she didn't just capture a Jedi and use their body, I don't know. Perhaps she feared Republic trying to reclaim her victim, especially during the ritual.

I assumed for the same reason Zash elevates the Inquisitor to the status of a full sith lord and kickstarts their power base: she wants to live, yes, but she wants to live under specific circumstances. Taking over a jedi would sacrifice her power and position.

 

Jadus is a very competent sith lord. He does many things to secure his goals in ways you I cannot discuss unless you play the IA story.

Perhaps, but his goals are moronic and ultimately self destructive.

Edited August 3, 2013 by Bleeters

[BacaWicket]

jadus makes you his hand if you help him use the eradicators but after you kill zhorrid (most of you probably killed zhorrid) the storyline is pretty much the same as if lets say you mocked Jadus for being a big coward

[Ausstig]

Perhaps, but his goals are moronic and ultimately self destructive.

 

How do you figure that?

 

Don't get me wrong I feel he is a bit insane, but I don't see how his goal is self destructive

[Bleeters]

How do you figure that?

 

Don't get me wrong I feel he is a bit insane, but I don't see how his goal is self destructive

Because he sees fear as a gift that the Sith have hoarded from the rest of the galaxy, and wants to share it. With everybody, everywhere, all the time.

 

The problem with that we can see on his ship: it reduces effectively everyone to feral savages. You can't have everyone literally afraid for their lives at all times and expect the galaxy to actually function.

[VigDiath]

I'm not sure I'd describe Malgus as stupid, much of what he tried to accomplish was for the percieved good of the Empire. Greater diversity and acknowledgement of strength in other species than humans and purebloods, for one. He's also not wrong in his assessement of the dark council - much of the Empire's deteriorating state can be blamed on their infighting. I do find it somewhat ironic that much of what he tries to accomplish, Marr puts into motion afterwards anyway, though.

 

Marr is... I don't know what to make of him yet. I'm not convinced he isn't ultimately thinking of his own ambitions - I mean, he's Sith - but he at least seems canny enough to recognise that his power is meaningless if the Empire crumbles around him, which is more than I can say for most others in his position.

 

So it really only sounds like the difference between Marr and Malgus is that Marr waited until he was sure the Emperor was dead while Malgus made a power play before it was confirmed. This, coupled with the Councils own suspicious nature cause Malgus to fail. I would consider both Malgus and Marr to be patriots of the Empire seeing as they were the only Sith who acted to ensure it's survival. Malgus just went about it wrong.

[Jaigen]

Because he sees fear as a gift that the Sith have hoarded from the rest of the galaxy, and wants to share it. With everybody, everywhere, all the time.

 

The problem with that we can see on his ship: it reduces effectively everyone to feral savages. You can't have everyone literally afraid for their lives at all times and expect the galaxy to actually function.

 

You need to look at the holorecordings to understand whats going on their. the weak members succumb to the fear while the strong ones grow stronger by it. they refuse to let fear dominate them. Jadus seeks to empower non force users . The question is if can he pull it of. That said i greatly respect marr , jadus and malgus by putting the empires survival above personal power gain. no idea what vowran mortis and ravage are doing however

[Sith-Viscera]

Has anyone gave a thought that, Darth Marr is the Emperor doing an (Undercover BOSS thing)?

That way he can guide things along as he gains strength back, i mean the republic thinks he is dead, So let them believe as such. It would be like the 2nd coming, would it not?

[Darth_Omega]

Marr interests me greatly. I feel he is hiding something.

 

Zash, I think she was actually trying to empower Darth Nox. Her other two apprentices said she had a vision of Nox achieving great power, so its possible that when she fought to take over his body, It was test similar to Bane vs Zannah

[Bleeters]

You need to look at the holorecordings to understand whats going on their. the weak members succumb to the fear while the strong ones grow stronger by it. they refuse to let fear dominate them. Jadus seeks to empower non force users . The question is if can he pull it of.

I remember those, and how in I believe the last one, the person making the recording vows to take revenge on Jadus for what he did to them. And yet, the entire ship is full of people who've lost their minds out of constant fear and attack you on sight. His daughter certainly wasn't made any stronger by him, either.

 

I know he thinks he's doing everyone a favour by granting them the 'gift' of fear. I'm saying that's neither a) actually a good thing for anybody, and b) wildly impractical.

 

So it really only sounds like the difference between Marr and Malgus is that Marr waited until he was sure the Emperor was dead while Malgus made a power play before it was confirmed. This, coupled with the Councils own suspicious nature cause Malgus to fail. I would consider both Malgus and Marr to be patriots of the Empire seeing as they were the only Sith who acted to ensure it's survival. Malgus just went about it wrong.

Pretty much, though Malgus was more... pro-active, I suppose. His ambition for a new Empire had been in affect long before he actually went ahead with it, but it was still my impression that it was done out of dissatisfaction with Sith traditions and policy towards alien races that he'd come to respect more than 'mwhaha I want to be Emperor'. I don't really know why he failed, but aggravating both the Republic and Empire at the same time whilst both have got their war faces on probably didn't do him any favours.

 

Marr seems like more of a pragmatist. He's well aware the Empire is doomed on it's current path, and I feel like his relaxing of the strict 'no aliens allowed' policies seem to be motivated more out of necessity than anything else. But I don't know, I need to see more of the guy

Edited August 4, 2013 by Bleeters

[Yria]

So it really only sounds like the difference between Marr and Malgus is that Marr waited until he was sure the Emperor was dead while Malgus made a power play before it was confirmed.

I'd also say the difference is that Marr doesn't actually claim the ruling spot for himself. Malgus was pretty obvious about becoming the Emperor, the ultimate ruler, while Marr stays more or less equal to the rest of the Dark Council. Like it was already mentioned, if you accuse him of making a grab for power, he denies it saying: "Let another claim the throne, my place is on the battlefield". And I think it's a bit wiser than going all like "The Emperor is dead. Glory to the new Emperor!".

Edited August 12, 2013 by Yria

[Mercurial_Harpy]

I pretty much agree with all points about defeated Sith being meh at the end. They had the chops to gain their position at one point, but that point in time has passed. But it's not their lack of smarts that did them in...

 

I think what is easy to forget (especially in playing Sith as your own character) is that most Sith go completely insane. This is true for both Dark Side force users and their minions. The Dark Side is degenerative, and touches every thing exposed to it. In fact, we see so many instances of NPC "mad Sith" pacing back and forth and talking to themselves, and nutty Imperial military/civilians, we forget that with rare exception, that's what the future holds. The Sith Inquisitor story illustrates this point with very little subtlety. Take a close look at the SI's crew and tell me their ship isn't a glorified padded room.

 

I'm not saying that crazy Sith are unintelligent; quite the opposite. Intelligence and cunning allowed Sith like Malgus, The Emperor, Jadus, Zash, Decimus and a bunch more (that didn't make it to Makeb) to last as long as they did. But every single one of them, at their core, is a broken person, and as their grip on reality fades, so does their power. We see too many examples of Sith descending into maniacal rage, extreme paranoia, random, unexplained cruelty and plain lunacy to come to any other conclusion. And that is what gets them all in the end. I mean damn, even the Force Ghosts in the SI story are dead, yet STILL nuts and ranting about crazy stuff all over the Dark Temple. Geez, what a place to spend eternity; at least they serve cocktails in Hell...

 

That said, Darth Marr is the most interesting Sith in the game at the moment, and I'm curious and excited to see what Bioware will do with him. He's interesting because as someone pointed out, he's acting decidedly un-Sith like by putting the Empire first, and basically deciding to ignore any on the Dark Council who aren't on-board his plan. If there are any cracks in his mental armor, it's that his dedication to the Empire itself (rather than the Emperor) is fanatical, & he's made comments that he didn't expect to live this long anyway, implying that on a personal level, he has little to lose and little interest in hanging on to old accolades. THAT makes him a dangerous guy. He also asked for help (Makeb) and made allies of 4 more dangerous and effective killers (the 4 Imperial classes), which is unheard of for a Sith.

 

And if certain members of the Council decide to bark at him and the Inquisitor later for handling Makeb themselves, well, I don't see Marr having a problem aiming some Isotope 5 droids at the dissenters to prove a point in the name of not-screwing-the-war-up-any-more-than-they-already-have. Then, as per usual, the remaining members will elect to save their own skins, keep their mouths shut and wait for further instruction.

 

I love Marr as a character, and here's hoping we get to see a lot more of him.

[Ashuranrx]

That is the thing about Marr, he has wisdom that the other Sith seem to commonly lack.

 

Marr knows himself well and the limits of his own power. When he realizes that he can’t handle something, he is not ashamed or afraid to ask for help. And he has the wisdom to select the right help for the right job. Marr tried to lead, guide, and work with others in the empire, instead of subjugating them for a personal power base. He also has spies to keeps eyes on targets with potential gain or threat. The fact that he figured out the importance of Isotope-5 and devised a plan on how to steal them proves that he is way ahead of everyone in the Empire and the Republic. He is subtle, yet effective.

 

I disagree that Malgus did what he did for the empire. He could have accepted aliens under his own wing, build his stealth armada, disguise his fleet, and attack republic forces to help the empire. He didn’t have to plot to kill Darth Arho and declare himself emperor. He did what he did because he wanted to be emperor. He accepted aliens into his empire because he had the wisdom to at least recognize the power of other races and add them to further his own power base. But his intention was always to become the emperor, with the “be with me, or be my enemy and die” attitude. In the end, everything he did was for himself.

 

Another Darth that is worthy of honorable mention is Darth Angral. His plan to infiltrate the Republic and steal their top secret weapons was genius. He spends his time fighting the Republic for the Empire with cunning schemes and relentless effort. Yes, he got beat by the Jedi Knight in the end, but he went down honorably for the empire and died fighting for the empire. He didn’t waste his time bickering with other Sith and trying to backstab them for power that would hurt the empire internally. The major mistake he made was that he lost his cool when his son died. Had he bid his time and mass produce his Desolators for an entire fleet, instead of rushing to kill the Jedi Knight for revenge, he probably would have been able to won the war for the Empire by destroying multiple Republic core worlds with multiple Desolators simultaneously.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Ashuranrx

[Forgon]

Snip.

 

I agree. What I like the most about Marr is that he seems to have a far more lasting desire than other Sith, and you can still tie it to his own self-conceit. He is famed on the battlefield. He has achieved the rank of Dark Councilor. He commands the others as if he were their better. Why be Emperor when he already he can be the most influential in his current position of power? He is there, at the heart of where all affairs in the Empire are decided.

 

I think his only concern is that he knows his life is finite and he has seen what power grabbing to desperately try to live longer has done. I think he fears that and instead wants a more lasting immortality, a more Shakespearean kind of living: letting his name and legacy forever be remembered as long as the Empire exists. In essence, I think Marr wants the Empire to never forget what he has done and be a paragon among Sith.

 

I could be wrong, but that is what makes him so fascinating. He is a Sith with a very unique way of acting it and a very different viewpoint from the others.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Forgon