[Rep] State of the Guardian Address

[Dragonexadon]

Back on topic

 

The main issue being threat management. Due to the Guardian's limited range, holding threat on multiple targets can be an issue. DPS.

.

 

For me, when saber reflect is up, AOE threat is pretty manageable (so long as your group lets you jump in first). Saberthrow, forceleap, force sweep, reflect , guardian slash. At this point you can fill in the space with either single target attacks or cyclone slashes until your sweep is back up. As soon as a single mob pulls off of you AOE taunt to build more threat.

 

Which is why I prefer if they left reflect as is. The AOE threat makes it wonderful. I am not really concerned about the logic behind reflecting force attacks. I could go into many aspects of lore in the extended universe where Jedi did much more amazing feats than simply reflecting force attacks (like a Jeedai using force alchemy to repair a fist sized wound in her chest, or using a force shield to protect herself from a bomb that detonated right next to her) but these arguments are pointless. Lore and mechanics will never , and should never, be in sync.

[GalenMourne]

 

I'm quite curious how I'm asking for too much as part of that. It's actually not all that difficult to calculate the proper contributions of Shield and Absorb when you've got a given end point of mitigation. Currently, a Guardian in full UW gear is going to manage 69.97% mitigation outside of Blade Barrier (1 - (1 - 0.3) * (1 - 0.395 * 0.3307) * (1 - 0.5067)). Pull the DR contibution down to .4553 rather than .5067 (removing the Guardian Slash's DR and Guard Stance's armor contribution), do some algebra to find the equivalence, and you'll find that, if you add 5% Shield through Guard Stance, you need only add 14.66% Absorb to achieve the same level of mitigation as is there currently. Pull that up to 15% flat and you've got a pretty damned simple solution: Guard Stance provides 5% Shield and Guardian Slash (or some other source) provides 15% Absorb.

 

And it took me all of 5 minutes.

 

So how is *that* asking for too much?

 

I am curious about a few things.

1. What would the equivalent of the 3% damage reduction on guardian slash be as shield and absorb.

2. What would the equivalent of the 15% armor on guard stance be as shield and absorb.

3. Would some combination of what we currently have and what you suggest still make shield and absorb a more attractive stats for guardian to invest in, and what would that combination look like

4. Would some combination of Defense, shield and absorb, leaning more towards shield and absorb, still make shield and absorb a more attractive stats to invest in, and what would that combination look like.

 

I am not versed in the equations used to figure these out, but i wished to discuss this further with you as i like where you are going with it. I ask only so i can have some solid understanding in the discussion.

[Kitru]

1. What would the equivalent of the 3% damage reduction on guardian slash be as shield and absorb.

2. What would the equivalent of the 15% armor on guard stance be as shield and absorb.

 

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking here, unless you're just asking for the numbers as if *only* Guardian Slash or Guard Stance were changed from DR to some combination of Shield/Absorb.

 

Something that needs to be remembered about Shield and Absorb is that the value of them is based upon the listed percentages. 5% additional Shield means next to nothing when you're a starting character without any Shield or Absorb rating (20% and 20% equate to only 4% multiplicative damage reduction; pulling one of those up to 25% equates to all of 5%; if it were 50% and 50%, on the other hand, a 5% increase would push it up from 25% to 27.5%). The only way to find a given equivalence is to look at a certain gear level and go from there, which is why I specifically stated a full UW Guardian as the baseline for my calcs.

 

Now, if your questions are based around the previously mentioned assumption of only one or the other being changed, to account for only the 3% from Guardian Slash being removed, you could add 12.53% Absorb, 14.96% Shield, or a combination of both such as 5% Shield and 7.40% Absorb , 2.31% Shield and 10% Absorb, or 6.27% to both.

 

To account for the 15% loss in armor (equates to 2.14% DR), you could add 10.81% Shield, 9.05% Absorb, or a combination of both such as 5% Shield and 4.32% Absorb, 4.20% Shield and 5% Absorb, or 4.63% to both.

 

Keep in mind that neither of those assumptions is going to prove *exactly* true when added together. For example, adding the 5% Shield and 7.4% Absorb assumption from Guardian Slash to the 9.05% Absorb would render 5% Shield and 16.45% Absorb, which is ~2% over the actual equivalence when both Guardian Slash and Guard Stance are lost.

 

3. Would some combination of what we currently have and what you suggest still make shield and absorb a more attractive stats for guardian to invest in, and what would that combination look like

 

The biggest problem with Shield and Absorb is that, without some *serious* buffing, they're not really attractive outside of *exceptionally* high F/T damage scenarios. The numbers I suggested were given as such because Guardians would *still* have 45.53% DR (which is still a lot; they would only be ~10% spikier than VGs and ~20% less spikier than Shadows) while getting +9% Shield and +10% Absorb from talents, which is still a fair deal less than what Shadows get (+20% Shield, +10% Absorb) and slightly more than what VGs get (+2% Shield and +20.5% Absorb).

 

VGs really exist at the very bottom end of Shield/Absorb usefulness because, even with all of the Shield and Absorb they get, for times when F/T *isn't* the majority damage type (since, in those cases, Defense is functionally worthless so, even though it normally contributes more on a point for point basis, the fact that it contributes nothing means that it's effectively worthless), they *still* like a crapton of Defense. To make Shield/Absorb attractive, you really need to have the values set where I gave them. I'll ask KBN to throw out some budget distributions with his values for Guardians as if they had these Shield/Abs tweaks to show the comparative value.

 

4. Would some combination of Defense, shield and absorb, leaning more towards shield and absorb, still make shield and absorb a more attractive stats to invest in, and what would that combination look like.

 

Adding Defense wouldn't accomplish what the increases to armor were intended to accomplish. Defense doesn't work on F/T K/E attacks and the intent of the changes from Defense to armor/DR were intended to shift parts of said mitigation over to areas that *do* work on F/T K/E damage. As such, the only way to do it would be to not shift any to Defense and simply shift it to Shield and Absorb.

 

I am not versed in the equations used to figure these out, but i wished to discuss this further with you as i like where you are going with it. I ask only so i can have some solid understanding in the discussion.

 

The mitigation equation itself is relatively simple: 1 - (1 - Def) * (1 - Shield * Abs) * (1 - DR). This gives you the standard mitigation value for M/R attacks (you can find F/T K/E by removing the Defense portion). To calculate your baseline from which to alter, you plug in all of the given baseline assumed values: I used 30% Defense chance (25% from listed percentage, 5% from acc debuff), 39.53% Shield chance, 33.07% Absorb value, and 50.67% DR.

 

From there, you simply remove the desired value from one of those variables, add an unknown variable to one of the others, and then solve for the equation equal to the given baseline. The equation I used for the math I did was 1 - (1 - 0.3) * (1 - 0.4453 * (0.3307 + x)) * (1 - 0.4553) = .6997. If you don't want to do the math manually (gogo laziness!), you can just enter it into Wolfram Alpha and it'll solve it for you.

[GalenMourne]

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking here, unless you're just asking for the numbers as if *only* Guardian Slash or Guard Stance were changed from DR to some combination of Shield/Absorb.

 

Something that needs to be remembered about Shield and Absorb is that the value of them is based upon the listed percentages. 5% additional Shield means next to nothing when you're a starting character without any Shield or Absorb rating (20% and 20% equate to only 4% multiplicative damage reduction; pulling one of those up to 25% equates to all of 5%; if it were 50% and 50%, on the other hand, a 5% increase would push it up from 25% to 27.5%). The only way to find a given equivalence is to look at a certain gear level and go from there, which is why I specifically stated a full UW Guardian as the baseline for my calcs.

 

Now, if your questions are based around the previously mentioned assumption of only one or the other being changed, to account for only the 3% from Guardian Slash being removed, you could add 12.53% Absorb, 14.96% Shield, or a combination of both such as 5% Shield and 7.40% Absorb , 2.31% Shield and 10% Absorb, or 6.27% to both.

 

To account for the 15% loss in armor (equates to 2.14% DR), you could add 10.81% Shield, 9.05% Absorb, or a combination of both such as 5% Shield and 4.32% Absorb, 4.20% Shield and 5% Absorb, or 4.63% to both.

 

Keep in mind that neither of those assumptions is going to prove *exactly* true when added together. For example, adding the 5% Shield and 7.4% Absorb assumption from Guardian Slash to the 9.05% Absorb would render 5% Shield and 16.45% Absorb, which is ~2% over the actual equivalence when both Guardian Slash and Guard Stance are lost.

 

 

 

First let me say thank you for the equation, it will help me a lot.

 

With the first and second question i was looking at having shield and absorb on both talents, splitting the 5% and 15% to try to make the mitigation on each to be as equal as possible to what the talents already do. But i do realize there really is no way to make it 100% equal because of the way shield and absorb work.

 

And the i realize the defense question wouldn't work after thinking about.

 

One thought i had about this is if the DR was removed from guardian slash that the I/E damage reduction on inner peace should be increased to compensate. I know that previously Sin had the best I/E mitigation, and if that is to be returned perhaps just increases inner peace by 1% which still leaves SIn as tops, or perhaps making them equal by increasing it by 2%.

Edited August 2, 2013 by GalenMourne

[Kitru]

I was wondering if it would be something like 2%/6% on guard stance and 3%/9% on guardian strike.

 

While it would be a useful solution, I'm not entirely sure it would happen. There aren't any talents that add both Shield and Absorb simultaneously. It doesn't mean it *couldn't* happen, just that I doubt it will. If it *were* to happen, I would expect it to be something like 5% Shield and 5% Absorb on Guard Stance (since, at low levels, you don't have much Shield *or* Absorb so the addition of both would be more useful) and 10% Absorb on Guardian Strike (since, when you finally get Guardian Strike, you're finally seeing Shield rating on enhs), though that would make Guard Stance a *damned* powerful talent, especially at low levels.

 

Keep in mind, the whole "low level" issue isn't really one. Shadows are *abysmal* at low levels thanks to having terrible DR and not having *any* of the mitigation stats or and barely any self healing that they live or die by. Guardians and VGs are actually tankier at low levels than is really needed because they're not as reliant upon those selfsame tank stats. It's only when you get to end game performance than tank performance becomes an issue.

[GalenMourne]

While it would be a useful solution, I'm not entirely sure it would happen. There aren't any talents that add both Shield and Absorb simultaneously. It doesn't mean it *couldn't* happen, just that I doubt it will. If it *were* to happen, I would expect it to be something like 5% Shield and 5% Absorb on Guard Stance (since, at low levels, you don't have much Shield *or* Absorb so the addition of both would be more useful) and 10% Absorb on Guardian Strike (since, when you finally get Guardian Strike, you're finally seeing Shield rating on enhs), though that would make Guard Stance a *damned* powerful talent, especially at low levels.

 

Keep in mind, the whole "low level" issue isn't really one. Shadows are *abysmal* at low levels thanks to having terrible DR and not having *any* of the mitigation stats or and barely any self healing that they live or die by. Guardians and VGs are actually tankier at low levels than is really needed because they're not as reliant upon those selfsame tank stats. It's only when you get to end game performance than tank performance becomes an issue.

 

Sorry, i ended up editing my post. Didn't think you would respond so quick. I added an additional part about I/E damage mitigation.

 

And i can see your point about talents not really having both. Perhaps splitting this up between guard stance, shield specialization and guardian strike might be better.

[Kitru]

Sorry, i ended up editing my post. Didn't think you would respond so quick. I added an additional part about I/E damage mitigation.

 

Guardians would still have an advantage in having 5% Resist chance whereas VGs and Shadows only have 2%. I still can't comprehend why it was seen fit to increase Guardian I/E DR to be equal to Shadow's while leaving VG's completely alone. It kind of made me do a double take because it's not like I/E is common enough to really make a difference. It's like it was increased *solely* to increase it to the same value that Shadow's get for no other reason than to *be* equal (while making Guardians better at tanking I/E thanks to the higher Resist chance they got as well).

 

Honestly, I/E DR means next to nothing. It's so low that it really doesn't matter. The tanks have, functionally, 20% I/E DR for any kind of balance purpose: 19%, 23% and 23%. The difference between the damage taken on those is all of 5%. I'm not even sure *why* Guardian Slash is added to I/E DR (though I'm also not sure why Blade Barricade gets added to Resist as well as Defense chance when, before, it only added to Defense). They could remove it and, thanks to the absurd rarity of I/E damage, no one would notice in the least.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Kitru

[GalenMourne]

Guardians would still have an advantage in having 5% Resist chance whereas VGs and Shadows only have 2%. Honestly, I/E DR means next to nothing. It's so low that it really doesn't matter. The tanks have, functionally, 20% I/E DR for any kind of balance purpose: 19%, 23% and 23%. The difference between the damage taken on those is all of 5%. I'm not even sure *why* Guardian Slash is added to I/E DR (though I'm also not sure why Blade Barricade gets added to Resist as well as Defense chance when, before, it only added to Defense). They could remove it and, thanks to the absurd rarity of I/E damage, no one would notice in the least.

 

Because previously i believe jugg/guardian was the only tank class that had an accuracy debuff that affected all attacks, and thus the resistance chance it created applied to the the entire raid. I'm pretty sure the SIns didn't do this because they got resistance in their tree. They changed the debuff to be equal the sin tanks, and added the effective resistance they had into blade barricade.

 

Additionally since juggs/guardians had no actual resistance they had no chance at all the build revenge stacks off F/T I/E attacks. Now they do, even if it is a very small % chance

Edited August 2, 2013 by GalenMourne

[Kitru]

Because previously i believe jugg/guardian was the only tank class that had an accuracy debuff that affected all attacks, and thus the resistance chance it created applied to the the entire raid. I'm pretty sure the SIns didn't do this because they got resistance in their tree. They changed the debuff to be equal the sin tanks, and added the effective resistance they had into blade barricade.

 

The acc debuff never affected F/T attacks in the least. It was the exact same as the Shadow one from Force Breach.

 

The closest bit of logic that *I* can come up with is that it was part of the same "we need to change Guardians so that they have more stuff to use against F/T K/E since they don't have Shield". The 5% Resist chance would have been added on as a mechanism to that effect, though it doesn't make much sense to me since it's such an absurdly *small* contribution (I don't even really reference the 2% chance on Shadows or VGs since it's so completely pointless) to make when balancing out incoming K/E damage. It could be completely ignored and Guardians would still be golden thanks to their DR.

 

The tiny resist chances have always irked me to some extent because I really don't see the point. They're an absolutely *tiny* chance to completely avoid an attack. It can't be relied upon and, when it *does* happen, it's pretty much *never* on an attack that matters. *Maybe* if Defense rating adding to Resist chance as well as Defense chance, I could see a point but, as it stands, without any ability to augment them, I've felt it's kind of pointless.

[GalenMourne]

The acc debuff never affected F/T attacks in the least. It was the exact same as the Shadow one from Force Breach.

 

The closest bit of logic that *I* can come up with is that it was part of the same "we need to change Guardians so that they have more stuff to use against F/T K/E since they don't have Shield". The 5% Resist chance would have been added on as a mechanism to that effect, though it doesn't make much sense to me since it's such an absurdly *small* contribution (I don't even really reference the 2% chance on Shadows or VGs since it's so completely pointless) to make when balancing out incoming K/E damage. It could be completely ignored and Guardians would still be golden thanks to their DR.

 

The tiny resist chances have always irked me to some extent because I really don't see the point. They're an absolutely *tiny* chance to completely avoid an attack. It can't be relied upon and, when it *does* happen, it's pretty much *never* on an attack that matters. *Maybe* if Defense rating adding to Resist chance as well as Defense chance, I could see a point but, as it stands, without any ability to augment them, I've felt it's kind of pointless.

 

Actually i remember quite clearly the talent reading lowers opponents accuracy by 5%, while on the SIn it said M/R specially. When 2.0 was on the pts i scanned every detail of the difference, now this doesn't mean it actually worked this way and may just be a typo.

 

And i agree with you on it mostly being pointless, i would like to see defense rating to a much smaller extent increase resistance chance as well. Maybe a 1 to 3 ratio

Edited August 2, 2013 by GalenMourne

[Kitru]

Actually i remember quite clearly the talent reading lowers opponents accuracy by 5%, while on the SIn it said M/R specially. When 2.0 was on the pts i scanned every detail of the difference, now this doesn't mean it actually worked this way and may just be a typo.

 

Just because the tooltip stated that it affected accuracy rather than melee/ranged accuracy doesn't meant that it did so. It was tested a few times, and it didn't do anything to F/T accuracy. The acc debuffs were just that: reductions to melee/ranged accuracy. The "change" was just fixing the tooltip on Dust Storm.

[GalenMourne]

Just because the tooltip stated that it affected accuracy rather than melee/ranged accuracy doesn't meant that it did so. It was tested a few times, and it didn't do anything to F/T accuracy. The acc debuffs were just that: reductions to melee/ranged accuracy. The "change" was just fixing the tooltip on Dust Storm.

 

Then the change was just to give a small chance to proc courage stacks on F/T I/E attacks. Still doesn't really do much though.

[Kitru]

I'll ask KBN to throw out some budget distributions with his values for Guardians as if they had these Shield/Abs tweaks to show the comparative value.

 

KBN just got back to me. These are the changes to the distribution based upon adding 5% Shield and 15% Absorb:

 

{2000,{defense->724,shield->729,absorb->547}}
{2050,{defense->730,shield->748,absorb->572}}
{2100,{defense->737,shield->766,absorb->597}}
{2150,{defense->743,shield->784,absorb->623}}
{2200,{defense->750,shield->802,absorb->647}}
{2250,{defense->757,shield->821,absorb->672}}
{2300,{defense->764,shield->839,absorb->697}}
{2350,{defense->771,shield->857,absorb->722}}
{2400,{defense->778,shield->876,absorb->746}}
{2450,{defense->785,shield->894,absorb->771}}
{2500,{defense->792,shield->913,absorb->795}}

 

And this the current distribution, for comparison.

 

{2000,{defense->977,shield->729,absorb->294}}
{2050,{defense->983,shield->748,absorb->319}}
{2100,{defense->990,shield->766,absorb->344}}
{2150,{defense->997,shield->784,absorb->369}}
{2200,{defense->1004,shield->802,absorb->393}}
{2250,{defense->1012,shield->820,absorb->418}}
{2300,{defense->1019,shield->839,absorb->442}}
{2350,{defense->1027,shield->857,absorb->466}}
{2400,{defense->1034,shield->875,absorb->491}}
{2450,{defense->1042,shield->893,absorb->515}}
{2500,{defense->1050,shield->912,absorb->539}}

 

Those changes alone move Defense from twice as much as Absorb to an essentially even distribution between the two.

[GalenMourne]

KBN just got back to me. These are the changes to the distribution based upon adding 5% Shield and 15% Absorb:

 

Those changes alone move Defense from twice as much as Absorb to an essentially even distribution between the two.

 

Interesting, definitely an improvement.

 

Really the only thing i think would need to be worked out is how to divide up the shield and absorb. Personally i believe at least 2%(if not all) of that shield and at least 1/3 of that absorb should be passive, perhaps creating some stacking buffs between 2 abilities for the remainder.

 

Example:

5% shield on guard stance

5% absorb added to inner peace.

And then cyclonic sweeps makes guardian slash and blade storm add 5% absorb stacking to 10% and lasting 20 seconds.

This would give us the 5% more passive shield and absorb, and 10% absorb gained between 2 ability uses.

 

If your wondering why i split the extra absorb buff between Guardian Slash and Blade Storm, i was trying to not lump all the eggs in one basket so to speak. Blade Storm gives a little more flexibility in maintenance, especially in situations like the mine field in EC where you have to wait for the mobs to get to you, or having to move away from the tentacle because of close adds on TFB. That slight range increase could help in those situations.

 

 

But all in all it would bring the guardian/jugg back into its original niche along with the powertech.

Edited August 3, 2013 by GalenMourne

[Lahsbee]

Depends upon whether you're using the English or German longsword tradition. The German tradition preferred the high guard whereas the English was much more defensive and kept the blade close to the chest.

 

Of course, the lightsaber forms have actually been explained pretty explicitly with the relative stances, guards, and techniques in LucasArts published content. I recall that Soresu form is the only one that keeps the blade very close to themself, which is part of the "complete defense" idea behind it (create a tight circle around yourself that nothing can penetrate), but none of the others do, which would indicate that the "default" stance, as far as the animations are concerned, is actually Soresu's.

 

All of this is largely arbitrary because the devs weren't attempting to transcribe the actual forms into the game's animations so it's not like it's really an issue. It's also pretty unlikely that the devs would go out and make a bunch of new animations for the different stances simply because it would be a *crapton* of work with only tangential value since it's for a single class and specific specs within it.

 

Indeed - it's close to to a real longsword guard, not necessarily close to an optimal longsword guard! One could make the case that the Sith Warrior stance is close to Dooku's Makashi stance, with a bold invitation to the entire left side of the -

 

...anyway, this is waffle, I agree. So! Yeah! Absorb is not so exciting these days, right?

[Andrew_Past]

I've been having a lot of unexpected things come up within the last couple days. I will be delaying the Focus tree rebalance until either tomorrow or Sunday. I also want to comment on a the tanking debate. Edited August 3, 2013 by Andrew_Past

[Aelaias]

I have a feeling that the discussion is getting more into the fantasy game design territory than it should. We need to formulate 3 specific concerns per class (or is it spec?) which leaves space for the biggest pet peeves. For vengeance in pvp I feel there are 2 top concerns, mobility and usually lackluster burst due to low crit chance. For focus it is the extreme convenience of high instant aoe damage (although this is arguably not an in issue for people who like the spec) and relatively lower durability. Edited August 3, 2013 by Aelaias

[Alec_Fortescue]

I agree with majority of your points. The other ones I just don't care. So good job - you do love your class! And well, about focus... It's not even close to what Marauder does so pls... If you really want to change aoe dmg then it should be reflected in improved single target damage. Edited August 3, 2013 by Alec_Fortescue

[ArenCordial]

Just thought I'd share some of my thoughts in regards to Andrew's posts.

 

 

-Defense-

Quite frankly I don't think much needs to be done here. Guardians are finally in a good place as tanks and its actually fun to tank again. Who would have thought? Unlike some people with class envy right now I don't think they need any nerfs. They are in a good place and I'd rather those people go to their own threads and bring suggestions to how to improve their class.

 

-Vigilance-

Accuracy talent-Your point here is very good. Most classes with Accuracy talents do something in addition to the +acc. Personally I think armor pen for Master Strike would be the way I go, but other ideas I'd definitely like to here also.

 

Gather Strength-Yeah this talent is almost pointless, it either needs to go back to its old level (which frankly was not that great either) or be redesigned.

 

Preparation-What a worthless talent. I took it to try it out in PvP and I barely ever got any use out of it. In PvE its completely useless. This talent needs to be redesigned, especially for so high a tier.

 

-Focus-

Focus is also in a very good place right now. I really wouldn't change much. Sure it could use some extra defenses but quite frankly it has some if not the best burst in PvP and parses pretty well compared to Vigilance give that its AoE focus. I think being a bit squisher than folks would like is a fair trade off. Oddly enough I think its the Sentinel's more resilient version that's more a question mark.

Edited August 3, 2013 by ArenCordial

[GalenMourne]

 

Accuracy:

This talent is fairly straightforward and does help Vigilance out. However, it is very lackluster when you compare it to the accuracy talents of most other classes. For example, a Commando's accuracy talent not only increases accuracy by 3%, but it increases armor penetration of Full Auto and High Impact Bolt by 30%. Vanguards, Shadows, Sages, and Scoundrels also have extra effects on their accuracy talents.

 

Therefore, I propose that Vigilance's accuracy talent also receive additional effects. However, I'm not exactly sure what it should be. Some suggestions would be: 30% increased armor penetration for Masterstrike, 3% alacrity (I'd prefer something else, but it's an idea,) 6% increased melee critical chance, etc.

 

 

I can agree with this, all though i am going to take it a step further: All other classes have their 3% accuracy talent on the bottom row, many of them have it tied into a talent that everyone is going to take anyway. Shadows have the accuracy talent tied in with technique mastery, the talent that improves each of its stances. All of the other AC's can easily take the accuracy talent no matter what their build is, guardian/juggernaut is the only AC that isn't built that way.

 

I believe the 3% accuracy should be tied in with single saber mastery. We can then replace the accuracy talent with a cool down reduction of master strike by 1/2/3 seconds and 2/4/6% alacrity to MS while in shien form, giving it a 27 second cool down and 2.82 channel time. This would mitigate some of the dps loss to bad rng in vigilance and seems like an appropriate power level for a second tier talent. If you combine this with a 45% chance for plasma brand to proc zen strike bad rng becomes much less of an issue.

Edited August 4, 2013 by GalenMourne

[UncleOst]

I have a feeling that the discussion is getting more into the fantasy game design territory than it should. We need to formulate 3 specific concerns per class (or is it spec?) which leaves space for the biggest pet peeves. For vengeance in pvp I feel there are 2 top concerns, mobility and usually lackluster burst due to low crit chance. For focus it is the extreme convenience of high instant aoe damage (although this is arguably not an in issue for people who like the spec) and relatively lower durability.

 

Aelaias(lots of vowels hehe)....baby..

 

I humbly invite you to the juggernaut forums, where we are actively discussing options for all of your points in this regard. Please enlighten us with some insight, or at least a thumbs up.

[Riivan]

I don't know if reducing the CD on MS is the fix we need. I'd like to see us maybe moving closer to watchmen sents in that Plasma Brand has an increased chance to reset MS. Even then I don't think that will fix the disparity between the other dps classes and guards.

[GalenMourne]

I don't know if reducing the CD on MS is the fix we need. I'd like to see us maybe moving closer to watchmen sents in that Plasma Brand has an increased chance to reset MS. Even then I don't think that will fix the disparity between the other dps classes and guards.

 

I actually suggested both in my post. Accuracy moved to single saber, 3 second reduction to MS(0ld ravager effect) while in shien in place of accuracy and increase plasma brand chance reset to 45%. MS reduction slightly mitigates when bad rng happens and plasma brand increases rng chance.

Edited August 4, 2013 by GalenMourne

[Riivan]

Ah gotcha, my apologies. I still think that only fixes part of the problem. I think we'll need something else.

 

So what raid utility would you (the forums at large including yourself) like to see guards bring? ATM we have nothing aside from we can help taunt/off tank adds and reduce someone's threat. I've heard alacrity being tossed around which baffles my brain considering how worthless it is for most classes, guards included.

Edited August 4, 2013 by Riivan

[ScruffyWhite]

................ Edited November 23, 2018 by ScruffyWhite