PvP in this game is miserable

[Savej]

If you have heals on you then it can take 100k - 500k+ to kill you.

If you don't have heals on you then 2 or 3 characters can do the 25k - 45k needed to drop you (depending if you have buffs/defs/potions) in <10 seconds (which seems like <3 seconds to people like the OP who make up a large percentage of the people on these forums if not in the game).

 

While I can definitely get behind complaints about cc and healing right now, anyone who complains about damage and ttk right now loses most of their internet points with me.

[DarthRaika]

This game has the best pvp class balance of any current mmo imo (and yes I have all 8 classes and they aren't even very geared). Your problems are most likely 2 fold.

 

First you are likely not very good (at least not yet) if you think class balance is so messed up.

 

Secondly, most matches are either easy wins and easy losses and so if you have a bad luck chain of several stompings then it is easy to think it was because of class balance.

 

The real issue was the player playing the class you are referring to had a team that was taunting/guarding/healing/crosshealing while your team was a bunch of special needs children.

[Gren-Aluren]

Over tuned? It's actually the most stupidly unbalanced game mechanics I ever saw in such a game's PvP.

The tank guards the healer who then heals the tank back to full HP with one instant... come on! This is an endless feedback loop, a perpetuum mobile.

You can't kill the healer without killing the tank and you can't kill the tank without killing the healer, so where do you start? To kill both at the same time requires more than half of your team. To CC one and then kill the other looks good on paper, but tanks and healers have more CC than any DPS out there, so at the end it's rather you who will be perma CCed.

This issue will destroy PvP if it's not fixed very soon.

 

Absolutely true. 55 PvP is nothing but stun fest stalemates (with proper compositions.) Tanks shouldn't have the ability to lock down targets the way they do, they copied that from WoW. It's not just their ability to mitigate damage from the healer but their ability to shut anyone down who touches them. Perhaps if they actually made the rogue archtypes do the jobs they were intended to do originally (ie. lock down targets) instead of the tank classes, Healing/Tank combo wouldn't be so over powered and classes like Scoundrel and Shadow would be viable once again.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Gren-Aluren

[kweassa]

I don't understand what doesn't play well means? There is nothing daunting about reading a guide on how to spec and gear your character. There is no skill involved in using you abilities in a priority or rotation. There is no skill involved in charging and hitting someone for 1/3 of there bar just because you can. I leave the notion of "skill" for things like playing objectives, not following the 6 other people to help the 1inc snow. Things like that are skillful imo.The game in not balanced for pvp, it's a horrible pvp environment and im telling you adding 4v4 arenas w/o balancing pvp is a horrid idea.

 

So in your theory, you can read a book called "How to Box - for Dummies", and then go challenge a middleweight for full 10 rounds and you'll be able to beat him... and then, after you wake up from the mat after your face turns into a pulp, you're going to file a complaint to the WBO and tell them the game is unbalanced.

[kweassa]

Absolutely true. 55 PvP is nothing but stun fest stalemates (with proper compositions.) Tanks shouldn't have the ability to lock down targets the way they do, they copied that from WoW. It's not just their ability to mitigate damage from the healer but their ability to shut anyone down who touches them. Perhaps if they actually made the rogue archtypes do the jobs they were intended to do originally (ie. lock down targets) instead of the tank classes, Healing/Tank combo wouldn't be so over powered and classes like Scoundrel and Shadow would be viable once again.

 

Your only as viable as you can play.

[wwkingms]

i blame BW a little

 

and every one of you creeps who play an operative healer or marauder who didnt a year ago or even a few months ago

 

ive played my sorc since beta, since launch and ever since

 

 

players ruin games, not devs

[Vaerah]

Full deception sins are full single target dps, no aoe fluff. That said, I've seen sins break 700k routinely in the last few weeks. I haven't played mine much lately as I got tired of just node guarding, but looking back thru screenshots my top damage ever was like 942k in a 140-0 CW and btw I suck, better players could do much more.

 

Are you talking of RWZs? Because in regulars there's no way to do 942k, either you or the other guys die too fast to allow that.

[ManCandy]

So in your theory, you can read a book called "How to Box - for Dummies", and then go challenge a middleweight for full 10 rounds and you'll be able to beat him... and then, after you wake up from the mat after your face turns into a pulp, you're going to file a complaint to the WBO and tell them the game is unbalanced.

 

Assuming you could get muscle mass, move like a butterfly and sting like a bee by putting on your grinded out "boxer shorts" (GEAR) then yes i think your example is correct, you should be able to stand toe to toe with him.

 

Reading guides and grinding gear is no more a "skill" than button smashing and tab targeting.

[Atramar]

Assuming you could get muscle mass, move like a butterfly and sting like a bee by putting on your grinded out "boxer shorts" (GEAR) then yes i think your example is correct, you should be able to stand toe to toe with him.

 

Reading guides and grinding gear is no more a "skill" than button smashing and tab targeting.

 

if smashing buttons in correct order, min maxing your gear, picking up targets properly, focus target and tab targetting doesnt take any skill, why so many fail on that?

Edited July 31, 2013 by Atramar

[ManCandy]

if smashing buttons in correct order, min maxing your gear, picking up targets properly, focus target and tab targetting doesnt take any skill, why so many fail on that?

 

Are you really marking the argument that letting someone else do the math and figure what gear you should wear/aug takes skill?

[Atramar]

Are you really marking the argument that letting someone else do the math and figure what gear you should wear/aug takes skill?

 

where did I say that

 

 

if smashing buttons in correct order takes no skill, why my tank is above80% of avarage warzone in damage?

if focusing target and picking up targets takes no skill, why people trying to focus fire my tank? (you know, instead of my healer?)

 

3 nights ago I converted my operative into dps from healer. in healer gear, guarding for 1/2 of warzone, I had top (about 600k) total damage next guy was fighting all time with (400k) .... some people just do it wrong

 

sure, anyone can just go in and smash random buttons, and then come to forums he doesn't understand why he is losing. since it takes no skill to smash correct buttons (only he doesn't, as he isn't mainstream)

Edited July 31, 2013 by Atramar

[kweassa]

Are you really marking the argument that letting someone else do the math and figure what gear you should wear/aug takes skill?

 

No, we're marking the argument that it takes actual practice to bring into reality what you imagine as a theory. Anyone can think they know how to fight someone in their head -- until they actually face it and experience how many things go wrong, and certainly not 'by the book'.

 

In other words, we're marking the argument that you're one of those people who think they can really go toe-to-toe with a boxer just by reading a book and doing a few push-ups -- without actual practice, actual training, actual effort, actual sparring experience, actual game experience, actual anything ... and then, after the inevitable loss, start blaming the game's unfair to you.

 

These types probably constitute about 80% of the whiner population. The rest 20% are parrots repeating after the loudest whiners, and usually don't have a clue as to what they are talking about.

Edited July 31, 2013 by kweassa

[AlrikFassbauer]

I can not seem to wrap my head around the lack of pvp balance in this game. Matches are absolutely overfilled with classes that can take 1/3 of you bar away in 1 hit or heal/guard combos that are just unkillable.

 

Which level are you playing in ?

 

Because PvP game play is quite different depending on the level.

 

I don't play any of the FotM buiilds, but I do play all eight advanced classes.

 

I don't share any of your perceived problem at all. Never did.

 

So clearly, you're doing something that's causing this -- not the game.

 

Yes, maybe the game is miserable. But then there's the other possibility.

 

Yes, there's the other possibility : That he is playing PvP at level 10 or 15.

 

In other words, we're marking the argument that you're one of those people who think they can really go toe-to-toe with a boxer just by reading a book and doing a few push-ups -- without actual practice, actual training, actual effort, actual sparring experience, actual game experience, actual anything ... and then, after the inevitable loss, start blaming the game's unfair to you.

 

Then, please tell me, how should a complete Newbie play with his very first character against the let's sday 3rd low-level character of an experienced player who is here since beginning ? Or shouldn't he ?

 

Or, another example : How is a level 15 character supposed to win over a level 30 character - do you even remember how many skills are MISSING from the bar of an level 15 character ?

 

You are like everyone else : Of course only argueing from the perspective of level 55. Even if the original poster plays at level 15 exclusively (just an example).

 

You are projecting everything a player should be able to do - including the sheer number of skills - from an trained level 55 character onto a untrained lower-level character.

Edited July 31, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer

[kweassa]

Then, please tell me, how should a complete Newbie play with his very first character against the let's sday 3rd low-level character of an experienced player who is here since beginning ? Or shouldn't he ?

 

What you're saying isn't even relevant to the discussion. If its a problem of level difference (thus, minor gear/spec difference + HUGE skill difference), then you're supposed to be at a big disadvantage in the first place. Nothing's wrong with that.

 

 

Or, another example : How is a level 15 character supposed to win over a level 30 character - do you even remember how many skills are MISSING from the bar of an level 15 character ?

 

You are like everyone else : Of course only argueing from the perspective of level 55. Even if the original poster plays at level 15 exclusively (just an example).

 

Again, I fail to comprehend how this even remotely relates to the discussion at hand. Nobody ever gives a thought about these things you mention, because we'd like to think that not even these whiner bunch are that stupid. I mean, how do you cover a level disadvantage? Simple. Level up. Sheesh.

 

 

You are projecting everything a player should be able to do - including the sheer number of skills - from an trained level 55 character onto a untrained lower-level character.

 

If some lowbie is complaining that the game's unfair and imbalanced, because he doesn't have enough skills to fight against a max-level player, then I wouldn't even be in this conversation -- that someone would be clearly insane.

 

That's like a lv15 character enters Makeb and starts complaining that the game's failed in balance, because he's PWND by lv55 mobs;;; how's something like this even a factor in PvP in the first place??

[ManCandy]

No, we're marking the argument that it takes actual practice to bring into reality what you imagine as a theory. Anyone can think they know how to fight someone in their head -- until they actually face it and experience how many things go wrong, and certainly not 'by the book'.

 

In other words, we're marking the argument that you're one of those people who think they can really go toe-to-toe with a boxer just by reading a book and doing a few push-ups -- without actual practice, actual training, actual effort, actual sparring experience, actual game experience, actual anything ... and then, after the inevitable loss, start blaming the game's unfair to you.

 

These types probably constitute about 80% of the whiner population. The rest 20% are parrots repeating after the loudest whiners, and usually don't have a clue as to what they are talking about.

 

Spoken like a true smash newb.....

 

I'm not going to deny that it take practice to understand basic fundamentals of objective based pvp and team play, but again you are diluting your self if you think learning a class takes any real "skill" for an experienced mmo. player. Priority based rotations are basic, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to stand next to someone and hit smash on cd.

 

This discussion is about balance, or lack of balance as it stands in the game currently. Go play a madness spec sin, or Leath operative and come back here and tell me about how well the game is balanced.

[ManCandy]

where did I say that

 

 

if smashing buttons in correct order takes no skill, why my tank is above80% of avarage warzone in damage?

if focusing target and picking up targets takes no skill, why people trying to focus fire my tank? (you know, instead of my healer?)

 

3 nights ago I converted my operative into dps from healer. in healer gear, guarding for 1/2 of warzone, I had top (about 600k) total damage next guy was fighting all time with (400k) .... some people just do it wrong

 

sure, anyone can just go in and smash random buttons, and then come to forums he doesn't understand why he is losing. since it takes no skill to smash correct buttons (only he doesn't, as he isn't mainstream)

 

So you can win a PUG w/ a dedicated healer and this makes you skilled? Is that what you are saying? Your passive ability to mitigated 50% of the healers incoming damage makes you stand out huh? Yeah it's not hard to roll over pugs when your grouped that tells us nothing.

[ManCandy]

Which level are you playing in ?QUOTE]

 

This discussion is about 55 pvp

[Atramar]

So you can win a PUG w/ a dedicated healer and this makes you skilled? Is that what you are saying? Your passive ability to mitigated 50% of the healers incoming damage makes you stand out huh? Yeah it's not hard to roll over pugs when your grouped that tells us nothing.

 

by *my healer* I mean a guy, that I get teamed up with in pug game, who is healer and I set him as my focus target and guard him all the time... more precise would be 'I'm his tank' buy saying that hurts my ego

 

if people attack jugg tank and leave healer to free cast heals, that it's their own fault for losing.

 

*I* don't win pugs. I'm very often in pugs that win. We are part of a team and must work together to achieve Win.

I was also in many games where 8 of us were all DDs, no healers and no tanks. Guess what, Many of those games were won.

[Jherad]

This discussion is about 55 pvp

 

Are you the best at your class in PvP? What class are you. and how much damage do you do on average?

 

Edit: Nm, I looked at your post history, you play a sin and a jugg (Heh).

 

Would it be safe to say that when specced for DPS on your sin, you are more than capable of breaking 1 mill damage, 1500+dps then, what with skill not being an issue for you?

Edited July 31, 2013 by Jherad

[Ashuranrx]

1. Burst in pvp is simply out of control

2. resolve and the over abundance of stuns is completely broken

3. You have the hardest hitting classes in the game who also happen to have the best defensive cool downs

4. healing/guard is way overtuned

 

1. Certain specs can burst high, like Deception Assassin, Marksman Sniper, and Carnage Marauders. Theses specs are effective at taking down healers and are also very squishy themselves. The burst specs are needed to kill healers.

 

2. It is not. You just have to learn and recognize what stuns are you hit with to determine if it is worth it to use your CC breaker. This comes with experience and skills.

 

3. Best defensive cooldowns belong to tank specs. Class-wide defensive cooldowns can be countered and/or bypass with varies attack types. You just have to learn what attack types your class has and recognize what defensive cooldowns the enemy use and learn what those defensive cooldowns do, and figure out what tactics to use to bypass them. Again, this comes with experience and skills.

 

4. No it is not. Focus fire by 2 good DPS is enough to overload the healing and the guard. Focus fire by 3 good DPS can drop the healer and/or the tank in 10 seconds. The problem is that good DPS is not as easy as most people think. I would even say becoming a good DPS is harder than becoming a good healer or a good tank in this game. Again, beng a good DPS needs experience and skills.

[ShadessaWayland]

i found my shadow tank very weak in pvp dunno why but they can drop my hp in a flash

 

when i saw a jugg tank cant take alot of hits and stil they cant kill him

is it me ore are jugg tanks way to OP in deff

 

alot of pll try to kill him but cant do it

all i can say ad lvl 30-54 on red eclipse emp is way to OP

 

we lose many many times even that EMP have 100 % left

i no am not the best pvper om more a pver but rely its sad to see -.-

[Atramar]

i found my shadow tank very weak in pvp dunno why but they can drop my hp in a flash

 

when i saw a jugg tank cant take alot of hits and stil they cant kill him

is it me ore are jugg tanks way to OP in deff

 

alot of pll try to kill him but cant do it

all i can say ad lvl 30-54 on red eclipse emp is way to OP

 

we lose many many times even that EMP have 100 % left

i no am not the best pvper om more a pver but rely its sad to see -.-

 

are you one of those shadow tanks in dps gear?

My jugg can live long only if I chain my def CD in right order and aoe mezz, but yeah, Juggs/Guardian tanks are most durable in pvp.

 

Also, as shadow, your job is not to face tank guarding node, first you sap and call incs, interrupt, kite a bit, put teleport beacon somewere cleaver, pull enemy from node and port back. Restealth when needed.

 

Balance in lowbie brackets is irrelevant.

[Sangrar]

I can not seem to wrap my head around the lack of pvp balance in this game. Matches are absolutely overfilled with classes that can take 1/3 of you bar away in 1 hit or heal/guard combos that are just unkillable. This is a horrible miserable experience for anybody who doesn't want to play a FoTM class. I can't even begin to imagine why you would want to introduce 4v4 arenas to this game with out some kind of major balance overhall.

 

I really hope 2.4 brings with it some major balance changes because I just do not see my sub lasting longer than October without it.

 

The only thing I don't like in pvp right now is the new bolster, whats the point of getting pvp gear if some pve gear is boosted with expertise stats sometimes above rated pvp gear?

[Atramar]

The only thing I don't like in pvp right now is the new bolster, whats the point of getting pvp gear if some pve gear is boosted with expertise stats sometimes above rated pvp gear?

 

pvp gear is better thenbolstered pve.

moving on.

[ShadessaWayland]

are you one of those shadow tanks in dps gear?

My jugg can live long only if I chain my def CD in right order and aoe mezz, but yeah, Juggs/Guardian tanks are most durable in pvp.

 

Also, as shadow, your job is not to face tank guarding node, first you sap and call incs, interrupt, kite a bit, put teleport beacon somewere cleaver, pull enemy from node and port back. Restealth when needed.

 

Balance in lowbie brackets is irrelevant.

 

no i have pve gear for schielding and absorp will power and so on no dps gear

here btw a pic i just shot we lose again with 100 % to 0

 

http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q574/Genlog76/Screenshot_2013-07-31_18_11_18_410304_zps18eddcb4.jpg"]http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q574/Genlog76/Screenshot_2013-07-31_18_11_18_410304_zps18eddcb4.jpg[/url]

 

i dunno what is going on but this is not fun every pvp i do we lose mega big -.-

Edited July 31, 2013 by ShadessaWayland