PvP in this game is miserable

[Atramar]

no i have pve gear for schielding and absorp will power and so on no dps gear

here btw a pic i just shot we lose again with 100 % to 0

 

http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q574/Genlog76/Screenshot_2013-07-31_18_11_18_410304_zps18eddcb4.jpg"]http://i1164.photobucket.com/albums/q574/Genlog76/Screenshot_2013-07-31_18_11_18_410304_zps18eddcb4.jpg[/url]

 

i dunno what is going on but this is not fun every pvp i do we lose mega big -.-

picture with end score board would be more helfpul. I see you only have 2 medals, that's bad.

 

again, it's lowbie brackets, wait for 55.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Atramar

[ShadessaWayland]

picture with end score board would be more helfpul. I see you only have 2 medals, that's bad.

 

again, it's lowbie brackets, wait for 55.

 

i no its bad i get my *** kicked very hard they kill me very easy

 

damage redution what i get for bolster is only 40 % its not much

 

so i get only 10 % more in pvp becouse i have 30 % now ??

 

maby lvl 40 pvp gear wil help a bit i hope am almost 39 so it wont take long

[Gren-Aluren]

Your only as viable as you can play.

 

That is only true to a degree.

[Vaerah]

i found my shadow tank very weak in pvp dunno why but they can drop my hp in a flash

 

When I see more than 1-2 sin / shadow (regardless of spec) in my WZ it often results in a bad loss. The class seems very easy to play, but it's very very very easy to stink with it. Most do just that: stink.

 

This also makes it hard to discern between shadow / sins being just a weak class or just being played by an enormous majority of bads (probably both).

As sin / shadow tank you suck and are only useful to sit at nodes like a dumb or at pulling people in fires at Huttball.

As infiltration you are meant to own noobs fast and hard, and perform barely at mediocrity in RWZs, since the opponents are sturdy geared and able enough to survive your tricks and once you are out of CDs you are left with the lowest DPS spec which also lacks of armor penetration and has zero heal debuffs.

 

Basically 95% of shadows/sins are more useful if used to farm mats on Makeb than spam ressing in WZs and generally doing 50-70k damage.

[Costello]

I find PvP to be more meaningless than miserable.

 

It maybe that I don't play PvP for the right reasons but for me PvP in an MMO is about your faction and control of the objectives, planets or areas. Its not just about fight clubbing and meaningless battles that have no effect on the game world and often same faction combat.

 

There is no real feel of epic battles they are tiny little insignificant fights that if it wasn't for the valour grind would likely have only the hard core left. As having played all the maps a enough times to get a feel for them the fights are usually so unbalanced with pre-mades/mumble and flavour of the month classes that I don't often come away feeling anything other than an easy win or an impossible fight.

[ManCandy]

Are you the best at your class in PvP? What class are you. and how much damage do you do on average?

 

Edit: Nm, I looked at your post history, you play a sin and a jugg (Heh).

 

Would it be safe to say that when specced for DPS on your sin, you are more than capable of breaking 1 mill damage, 1500+dps then, what with skill not being an issue for you?

 

The best? By what measure? The non existent leader boards? Again the topic is about lack of balance, some classes/specs perform better than others in pvp vengeance<rage, madness<deception, operatives are horrible at anything other than healing. Compare how other classes/spec perform the same roll and the result vary greatly.

 

And to your point if I am playing my sin deception and doing anywhere near one million damage it means I am simply not performing, because things are not dying. And again if all I cared about was having the most damage overall (which is asinine) I'd be rage/focus with the other 40% of the pvp player population.

 

I shouldn't have to play a particular class/spec to be more effective in pvp than someone else. Think about it, how many madness sins, Leth Operatives (or concealment for that matter) or vengeance Jugs do you see in ranked? The answer is simple, Not near as many as deception/rage. Balance your specs

[BigDumbViking]

The best? By what measure? The non existent leader boards? Again the topic is about lack of balance, some classes/specs perform better than others in pvp vengeance<rage, madness<deception, operatives are horrible at anything other than healing. Compare how other classes/spec perform the same roll and the result vary greatly.

 

And to your point if I am playing my sin deception and doing anywhere near one million damage it means I am simply not performing, because things are not dying. And again if all I cared about was having the most damage overall (which is asinine) I'd be rage/focus with the other 40% of the pvp player population.

 

I shouldn't have to play a particular class/spec to be more effective in pvp than someone else. Think about it, how many madness sins, Leth Operatives (or concealment for that matter) or vengeance Jugs do you see in ranked? The answer is simple, Not near as many as deception/rage. Balance your specs

 

What you are recommending is basically getting rid of all but one spec and making everything the same. The type of balance you are looking for doesn't exist in any situation where there is a difference in play style. You basically have complained about every single game mechanic at some point in this terrible whiny thread.

 

If you just want to kill things that don't put up much of a fight try PVE. There are some worm thingies on Korriban that won't give you too much trouble.

[ShadessaWayland]

When I see more than 1-2 sin / shadow (regardless of spec) in my WZ it often results in a bad loss. The class seems very easy to play, but it's very very very easy to stink with it. Most do just that: stink.

 

This also makes it hard to discern between shadow / sins being just a weak class or just being played by an enormous majority of bads (probably both).

As sin / shadow tank you suck and are only useful to sit at nodes like a dumb or at pulling people in fires at Huttball.

As infiltration you are meant to own noobs fast and hard, and perform barely at mediocrity in RWZs, since the opponents are sturdy geared and able enough to survive your tricks and once you are out of CDs you are left with the lowest DPS spec which also lacks of armor penetration and has zero heal debuffs.

 

Basically 95% of shadows/sins are more useful if used to farm mats on Makeb than spam ressing in WZs and generally doing 50-70k damage.

 

so in terms what i read we shadow thanks suck

thx hope bioware gone make us beter soon

 

as a tank i dont wanne get killt fast thats my role

just like jugg he can hold his ground thats a true tanker

 

i dunno how good vanguard is compare to Jugg ??

 

i wil see what comes my way am close to 40 now and get my lvl 40 pvp gear i hope it wil work a bit beter

 

btw i try madness tree build also in pvp but that did nice damage

dunno if any have try that ??

[ManCandy]

What you are recommending is basically getting rid of all but one spec and making everything the same. The type of balance you are looking for doesn't exist in any situation where there is a difference in play style. You basically have complained about every single game mechanic at some point in this terrible whiny thread.

 

If you just want to kill things that don't put up much of a fight try PVE. There are some worm thingies on Korriban that won't give you too much trouble.

 

So by advocating for class/spec balance I'm sayings "getting rid of all but one spec and making everything the same"? Balance would indicate that all specs/roles should perform on the same level which is simply not the case. If you need me to google the definition of balance for you if be happy to do it.

[sithBracer]

Ok, I think I get what you are saying. There are a lot of different classes and a lot of different specs. And in ranked PvP you are unfortunately stuck using the same old cookie cutter spec for your current class. You want to branch out and try new things, new combinations and new play styles but the game limits you from doing that based on class and spec structure.

 

The best comparison I can think of is a card game, where you want to try out different decks and different strategies but every time you do, someone stomps you using a cookie cutter deck which takes all the fun out of it. You are always forced to use the same type of cookie cutter deck-with a few small variances-and it gets boring over time.

 

Am I right in this assumption?

 

If so then why not just play different specs in regular warzones?

Edited July 31, 2013 by sithBracer

[Jherad]

The best? By what measure? The non existent leader boards? Again the topic is about lack of balance, some classes/specs perform better than others in pvp vengeance<rage, madness<deception, operatives are horrible at anything other than healing. Compare how other classes/spec perform the same roll and the result vary greatly.

 

And to your point if I am playing my sin deception and doing anywhere near one million damage it means I am simply not performing, because things are not dying. And again if all I cared about was having the most damage overall (which is asinine) I'd be rage/focus with the other 40% of the pvp player population.

 

I shouldn't have to play a particular class/spec to be more effective in pvp than someone else. Think about it, how many madness sins, Leth Operatives (or concealment for that matter) or vengeance Jugs do you see in ranked? The answer is simple, Not near as many as deception/rage. Balance your specs

 

 

I'm asking if you're capable. Can you do it? If the enemy side is heal heavy, can you reliably put out heavy DPS pressure, combined with the excellent burst a deception sin is capable of in the right hands? Most can't. They'll shrug, say DPS doesn't matter, but fail at getting kills too. Which brings me back to your denial of any kind of 'skill' in PvP.

 

 

Yes, every spec should have a shot at RWZs. I play a commando for goodness sake, until 2.0 they were a joke - and two of the specs still are. But unless you acknowledge that lack of skill is still a huge divider in PvP, you cannot approach class balance sensible. They cannot, MUST not balance for baddies.

[ManCandy]

I'm asking if you're capable. Can you do it? If the enemy side is heal heavy, can you reliably put out heavy DPS pressure, combined with the excellent burst a deception sin is capable of in the right hands? Most can't. They'll shrug, say DPS doesn't matter, but fail at getting kills too. Which brings me back to your denial of any kind of 'skill' in PvP.

 

 

Yes, every spec should have a shot at RWZs. I play a commando for goodness sake, until 2.0 they were a joke - and two of the specs still are. But unless you acknowledge that lack of skill is still a huge divider in PvP, you cannot approach class balance sensible. They cannot, MUST not balance for baddies.

 

The only skill i can derive from you sin example is knowing to focus fire a healer (which has nothing to do with your class), as far as knowing what sin skills to use when (again priority rotation) is basic and not a skill.

 

And by your own admission 2 Commando specs underperform, this is exactly what I'm advocating for. I shouldn't have to play gunnery to have a shot at a rated group spot. It always comes Down to balance, burst needs to be brought back in line.

 

Maybe a better way to state it....are you a more skilled pvp'er because you play gunnery than a commando who plays assault? When assault underperformed compared to gunnery?

Edited July 31, 2013 by ManCandy

[Jherad]

The only skill i can derive from you sin example is knowing to focus fire a healer (which has nothing to do with your class), as far as knowing what sin skills to use when (again priority rotation) is basic and not a skill.

 

How about the ability to consistently do MORE damage, both in burst, and over time, than the hundreds of other sins on your server, whether under pressure or left alone? The ability to keep track of numerous things happening simultaneously in the warzone? Positioning? To know where an enemy is going and what he's going to do before even he does? To anticipate attacks to the point where if you see an identically geared player of the same spec coming towards you, you know you could almost certainly beat them. Despite there not, according to you, being any element of skill in this game.

 

Do you, personally, think you are the best assassin on your server? Are you the yardstick by which your class should be measured?

 

Again, I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement across various specs, but your refusal to acknowledge any difference in skill between players is annoying and wrongheaded to say the least.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Jherad

[ManCandy]

1. The ability to keep track of numerous things happening simultaneously in the warzone?

2. Positioning?

3. To know where an enemy is going and what he's going to do before even he does?

4. To anticipate attacks to the point where if you see an identically geared player of the same spec coming towards you, you know you could almost certainly beat them

 

None of these examples have anything to do with Class, Spec or Balance. These are basic pvp fundamentals, if you need to call them "skill" to make your self feel like an adequate player so be it.

[Jherad]

None of these examples have anything to do with Class, Spec or Balance. These are basic pvp fundamentals, if you need to call them "skill" to make your self feel like an adequate player so be it.

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/skill

 

Most people have varying levels of these 'basic pvp fundamentals' as you call them. They make, at least in part, the difference between a bad, average or great player. I suspect your levels of them are lower than you'd like to think, given that you seem incapable of comprehending the ability of people to rise above the crowd through these factors alone.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Jherad

[ManCandy]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/skill

 

Most people have varying levels of these 'basic pvp fundamentals' as you call them. They make, at least in part, the difference between a bad, average or great player. I suspect your levels of them are lower than you'd like to think, given that you seem incapable of comprehending the ability of people to rise above the crowd through these factors alone.

 

Again....Balance

Does specing gunnery make you more skilled? The answer is no, but you are more effective. Lets say the buff the crap out of assault in 2.4 and suddenly 90% of commandos in pvp spec assault are they now more skilled? I understand the point you are trying to make, and while I can agree that there are certainly varying degrees of player (skill) if It needs to be called that. I think you'll find that spec imbalance players a larger roll in your effectiveness in warzones.

[sanchito]

i don't agree with much in this thread but i do believe a bit less burst would help the game. Introducing very gentle diminishing returns for power would achieve just that.

[Atramar]

i don't agree with much in this thread but i do believe a bit less burst would help the game. Introducing very gentle diminishing returns for power would achieve just that.

 

less burst would 'buff' nerf healers threads.

 

After a while you learn how to deal with bursty classes. Atm out of their burst they're mostly usless until next burst phase. if you take out burst, the healer killer, you are just feeding whine trolls.

 

It makes some defensive classes more wanted. Like juggs in stun defensive cool down, and saber reflect - short but returning that burst back to the attacker. Or sins escape from burst attacker during burst phase... every thing has it needs IMO.

 

as for topic:

in short, pvp here is fun and even. It's some players that are miserable and make others miserable by losing games in stupid ways.

I don't mind losing, it's part of life. There is always some one better then me out there. What I mind, is losing cause some muppet doesn't call incs, has less dps then healer, *****es on /ops chat blaming others for his lack of skill crying how hard this game is.

 

People complaining it takes no skill to be good makes me wonder. If it takes no skill to be good, why you are so bad?

Edited August 1, 2013 by Atramar

[waterboytkd]

I understand the point you are trying to make, and while I can agree that there are certainly varying degrees of player (skill) if It needs to be called that.

 

What else would you call it? When someone lacks the basic fundamentals, as you referred to them, we don't call them unfundamentaled. We call them unskilled. Whether you think they're difficult skills to acquire is another matter, but they are skills, and some players completely lack them.

[Avicii]

What else would you call it? When someone lacks the basic fundamentals, as you referred to them, we don't call them unfundamentaled. We call them unskilled. Whether you think they're difficult skills to acquire is another matter, but they are skills, and some players completely lack them.

 

Agree there is a level of skill that comes with awareness of positioning, how to counter what, when to anticipate what occurs next, teamwork ect. A lot of is just experience SWTOr has brought in a lot if non traditional MMO Fabs who are just learning PvP. Obviously there is much more to being a good player and although the bass think topping the dmg is what makes you good and skilled.

[Clifffeh]

This is one of the reasons why Blizzard decided to consolidate the talent trees. Too many options end up being a bad thing because players begin to complain about the viability of hybrid specs and talent trees. I would imagine there would have to be a significant shift in how skills are allocated for Arena to work and to placate the masses.

 

Is there skill involved in PvP? Absolutely. I'm not saying the skill cap is particularly high, however. On my lower bracket characters, i often find myself 1-2 damage when i have been guarding a node for half of the game. I am always top on heals if i spec for it. For objective points i consistently score in the top 3-4. I attribute this to my ability to prioritize targets better, to recognize abilities more readily and understand how to handle them, my use of LoS and baiting targets, understanding the herd mentality that want to hit things over doing objectives, and most importantly group synergy. I am not saying i am a supremely skilled player, but i like to think i'm competent.

 

There are MANY players undeserving of the same classification: back peddlers, clickers, face rollers. Because these players are likely to be on YOUR team as well, you will find instances where you get owned on a sage because no one is peeling, guarding for you. The guardian isn't appreciated enough and doesn't get heals even though they are mitigating damage like a champ. You find it difficult to kill a healer because your team mates are not abusing CC properly , not focus firing, and using skills like chain lightning as an opener on an Assasin. The most frustrating thing is seeing players FREQUENTLY break CC that you spent 15-30 seconds lining up.<<Most obvious in huttball IMO

 

PvP isn't balanced 1v1 nor should it ever be. It is about group play. What BW needs to do is implement a sophisticated matchmaking system so i don't have to que up with players who

 

complain about not being able to vanish with dots on them even though they themselves can cleanse. heh.

 

Or the Force melee opening with a charge and complaining about staying on a target...

 

Or players complaining about snipers but allow them to free cast and not using LoS.

 

Or players that backpedal which make them move slower (for those that didn't know) and allow me to have a measurable advantage in closing the gap.

 

Or the keyboard turner that takes twice as long to face a target.

 

Or the clicker that has double the reaction time than someone who key bound their abilities.

 

Or the players that attack a tank with reflect up and effectively remove the 2 v 1 advantage by killing themselves.

 

Or players that go for the Jug/Guard because there is a glowstick on the field of battle and ignoring the healer

 

So no, not every tree, every spec is equal. With all things considered, however, it is balanced better than a few other MMOs i can think of by limiting the skill cap. There is some polishing that could be done, however. I think OP concealment is a little weak along with vanguard. OP healing is too easy, imo. Skill cap isn't high enough to justify its effectiveness. I'm sure there are more "issues" but those seem to be the largest considering the population size.

 

Flame on!

[BigDumbViking]

Again....Balance

Does specing gunnery make you more skilled? The answer is no, but you are more effective. Lets say the buff the crap out of assault in 2.4 and suddenly 90% of commandos in pvp spec assault are they now more skilled? I understand the point you are trying to make, and while I can agree that there are certainly varying degrees of player (skill) if It needs to be called that. I think you'll find that spec imbalance players a larger roll in your effectiveness in warzones.

 

First off, this is a crap argument. 90% of what population of commandos spec assault? Are you talking top tier ranked PVP or general population. Because the general population doesn't min/max their characters like that. Be clear, you are asking for balancing around the top 1-2% of PVP players, and it isn't going to happen.

 

If you are asking for balancing around your in-ability to min/max your own character, then you need to suck it up and work harder.

[Aramyth]

First off, this is a crap argument. 90% of what population of commandos spec assault? Are you talking top tier ranked PVP or general population. Because the general population doesn't min/max their characters like that. Be clear, you are asking for balancing around the top 1-2% of PVP players, and it isn't going to happen.

 

If you are asking for balancing around your in-ability to min/max your own character, then you need to suck it up and work harder.

 

Someone's reading comprehension skill isn't levelled up.

[BigDumbViking]

Someone's reading comprehension skill isn't levelled up.

 

You're probably right... /ragequit

[ManCandy]

What else would you call it? When someone lacks the basic fundamentals, as you referred to them, we don't call them unfundamentaled. We call them unskilled. Whether you think they're difficult skills to acquire is another matter, but they are skills, and some players completely lack them.

 

Again..the point I am trying to make is simply that "skill" has very little to do with the character you choose to play or how hard said character can hit for example. And much more to do with the things described ad nauseum in this thread. Balance remains the topic at hand, For Example, the fact that my concealment Operative can not perform at the same level as my deception sin has nothing to do with my particular skill set and much more to do with just how ineffective concealment is which is why you wont see conceal ops represented in rWZ's.