I Want To Like TOR, But It Just Feels Old

[Syphid]

You forgot to add "Guild importation onto EGA servers leads to queues for people who took the time to make guilds while new servers are still Light-Moderate loads"

 

Waiting in queue now to play with guildmates while there are a dozen new servers with no queues at all. Free guild server change, please.

 

Bioware can't take credit for "innovations" that are complete failures. I.E. Legacy system that gives you a surname you should be able to have from level 1.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Syphid

[DarthTolis]

So since you want all those features that WoW already has why did you stop playing WOW in the first place? Go back to WoW and be happy and plz stop asking for this to become even more WoW like than it already is.

[Shadysketchy]

You forgot to add "Guild importation onto EGA servers leads to queues for people who took the time to make guilds while new servers are still Light-Moderate loads"

 

Waiting in queue now to play with guildmates while there are a dozen new servers with no queues at all. Free guild server change, please.

 

That's more of a silly error, marking an inexperienced design team, than something that makes the game feel old, though

 

At this point, bringing that up would just feel like kicking BioWare while they're down, and I like them as a Developer, so I'd rather not

 

Thanks for noting your concern though, I hope they do accomodate your Guild, soon

[Syphid]

in short into a lobby for running instances.

 

Im confused. Isn't TOR already like this? I.E. You have a fleet that acts as... a lobby for instances, space combat, operations, etc? They even went so far as to remove GTN from individual worlds and adding shutles and flashpoint courriers to each planet in order to turn the Fleet hubs into MORE of a lobby for players!

[valsheres]

So you are complaining about moderation by name calling, uninviting remarks and being non-constructive ..... interesting approach.

 

ive been constructive in this thread, and my analasys was contructive, your reply however, was not,

 

nor was any of my post a complaint about moderation, oh dont that that wrong, id love to see all the fanboys swept up into a bin and ground into dust then blasted into space, but its not going to happen.

 

however far too much of this thread has been bashing at the op and other like minded individuals, telling them to go back to wow, quit playing, no life, etc etc, rather than provide half decent counter arguments, or constructive feedback, and many of them very likely havent even read a single post in this thread top to bottom.

 

take the day / light cycle for example, ive seen at least a dozen people complain about having a 24 hour day night cycle? WHERE DID HE MENTION 24 HOURS? hmmm? tell me that!, he didn't! they just fill it in because they need something to ***** about,

 

which seems to be all theyre good for, praise it into high heavens, and blatantly ignore any possible flaws the game has, or write them off on it only being out for 3 days, lets not forget the over 1000 days with at least 500 devs, working for 8 hours a day each, (4000000 hours) what have they been doing then?

 

polishing character models? nope they're crap, and the animation is shoddy, 8 different shapes of which 2 look somewhat realistic, not to mention those 8 body shapes are shared amongst at least 20 different species with only the head being different.

 

environment? probably, the environment is very well done, though needs high res textures

 

texture art: doubtful, unless they havent unlocked high res textures yet, i mean how the hell is this game 3 dvd's and doesnt have high res textures?

 

instance: ok viable option, these are decent

 

quests: nope theyre about as generic as possible, go to x, talk to x, kill x of y, gather x of y, destory x of y, and fornicate with cow

 

ui: certainly not, a dead rodent is more user friendly and responsive

 

voice acting: (most) devs dont do this, they pay actors for it (probably where half the money went, the other half being the star wars liscence)

 

class balance: doubtful, some classes are op and fun as hell and others are useless and bland (hello agents/smuggler dps)

 

battlegrounds: nothing to see here moving on.

 

story.. ok plausible, its good, but shouldnt take THAT much time

 

..

err, ok so what did they spend all that time on? im going to go with the most obvious yet completely ignored option

 

browsing the net and looking at pictures of cats,

 

because most of that time / money certainly didnt go into making a great mmo that could rival blizzards colossus, or any of the minor ones around, quality wise, id rate swtor in its current form, based on what a 2011 mmo is expected to be capable of, at a 1/10 and that 1 is for the story, itd be a 2/10 but the fanboys of this community cost it a point

[Grammarye]

I genuinely can't wait for GW2 to launch and we get to see the exact same threads in their forums about how GW2 doesn't have feature X Y & Z and how it's a next gen MMO that ought to have a bunch of stuff. It's equally funny that EVE never gets any of these threads simply because it's about spaceships; most of the concerns would transfer and yet the response from the playerbase is always 'man up, we had to live with it this way & worse, uphill in the snow, both directions, you can too'.

 

Why do people assume that because money & time has been invested that somehow MMOs grow from one MMO to the next? It's not like Bioware could just go 'hey Blizzard, could we start with your codebase?' - they had to add everything from the ground up.

 

Irony is that in amongst the whine there are some valid concerns, but it's never presented as anything other than a whiny ***** with a massive bias that just feeds flames.

 

If you're passionate about the game, act like it. If you don't like the game, don't play it, simple as that. Subs are all that matter to EA. I took the same approach with Blizzard & quit at Cataclysm. I felt no need to give them a long list of what they'd got wrong, because I don't really care whether WoW keeps going. By comparison some games I do feel strongly about and would post in, but I'd be a lot less biased about it.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Grammarye

[Rasticles]

So honestly, I really do want to like this game. And I do think it has some positive features, including Star Wars; I've always like the Star Wars movies. Unfortunately, TOR just feels really old. Even compared to World of Warcraft, which actually is very old (over 7 years now), this feels elderly.

 

The following are some things that make TOR feel old:

 

- No LFG Tool (been in WoW for over 2 years... absolutely baffled as to how this hasn't been developed for TOR yet)

 

- Awful UI; I could make an entire thread about this (and people already have), but for the sake of brevity, I'll just restate that it's awful

 

- Pet AI is horrible, between the delay on commanding their auto attack, their hilarious pathing errors, and many others; it's safe to say giving every Class+Spec a pet was a bad idea, without first giving them AI that's passable in 2011

 

- 2007 graphics (The Skybox being a 2D Painting is particularly insulting)

 

- No Day/Night Cylce

 

- No accessable body of water deeper than 6 inches

 

- Server queues (Had queues in WoW for Vanilla, BC, and Wrath but not Cata, Blizzard has evolved, BioWare has not)

 

- Lackluster Character Creation

 

- Absurd Leveling curve; the overall process of getting from 1-50 is pretty fast, but the curve for time per level increases at a rate that makes me feel like I'm playing Aion again

 

- Three Warzones, No Arenas (also consider Huttball cannot be taken seriously as Rated PvP). Again; TOR is competing with 2011 WoW (8 Battlegrounds, 4 of which can be done Rated + Arena Content)

 

- No Macros

 

- No mouseover casting

 

- No addon support

 

- No Dual Spec

 

- Taris memory leaks (should have been fixed in Beta, not "overnight" a week after Early Access started for the game's release build)

 

- Lack of variety in quests; everything is kill X amount of Y, unlike WoW where they've added a lot of variation (for better or for worse) in the quests, which makes leveling feel less grindy

 

- Voice Actors voicing too many different people; I don't think I've seen this many Characters with the same Voice Actor, since the first Deus Ex game

 

- Player Character repeating Dialogue from other conversations (My Sith Inquisitor has said "I'll show you what a Sith can do!" like 5 times now, and other less memorably rhyming are equally if not more common)

 

- "Choices" are still just the Blue good guy option, or the Red bad guy option — this was kinda new in KOTOR, and still cool in both Mass Effects; but unimpressive today

 

- No Mount until level 25; it only takes a couple hours to get your first Mount in WoW these days. No idea why this was considered a good idea

 

- Awkward gold; having over 500,000 gold by the time you hit 40 is... silly, and will be a major hassle as the game ages and gold inflation occurs

 

- A vast array of technical errors that BioWare, and easily amused Players will chalk up to "Every launch has issues, go play WoW kid!"; but nonetheless detract from gameplay, and are hard to excuse in a 2011 title

 

- No Appearance/Gear Customization such as WoW's Transmogrification, or a standard MMO Appearance Tab (weird in a game where we watch ourselves talk so much)

 

- No Barbershop for minor character recustomization (again, weird in a game where we watch so much of our character speaking)

 

- More — I will expand on this as more things pop into my mind, these are the ones currently at the forefront of my thought process

 

Anyway, do you guys feel the same way? Maybe you don't see the logic in some of my points (but you will once you get to level 40+), but you've probably noticed the game feels old. I'm worried that this feeling will plague the launch, and the early days of the game. This will both turn away new players, and create a jaded community; problems that get worse and worse as time goes on. Hopefully the game can be improved enough though, I do like it.

 

TL;DR, I think TOR feels old, what do you think?

 

^ Sketchy was here too !!!

[mutharex]

Im confused. Isn't TOR already like this? I.E. You have a fleet that acts as... a lobby for instances, space combat, operations, etc? They even went so far as to remove GTN from individual worlds and adding shutles and flashpoint courriers to each planet in order to turn the Fleet hubs into MORE of a lobby for players!

 

No, there is a difference between a game that has a place where you can go and look for a group to run an instance and a game where everyone sits in the city waiting for a tool to makeup a group for him and then teleport him to the instance

 

can you see it? can you? yes yes ....no

shame

[Grammarye]

id rate swtor in its current form, based on what a 2011 mmo is expected to be capable of, at a 1/10 and that 1 is for the story, itd be a 2/10 but the fanboys of this community cost it a point

Then in all seriousness why are you still here? Even 2/10 is the score people give for games they want to pour petrol over, get a refund of, despite & loathe, that they'd never talk about ever again. An example: The Binding of Isaac. I could easily give that game a 2/10. I don't think you actually know how to use an out of ten score.

 

Any game that actually rated 2/10 I would not be wasting my time even talking about.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Grammarye

[valsheres]

the lfg tool that is requested is for the purpose of making it possible to find a group for an instance without having to filter through a dozen spam messages in general chat each second,

 

as for the current /who tool, thats a glorified search option, and the 15 characters that are displayed, arent enough to define class role, and what place your looking for.

 

slap a limitation on the tool that it can only be used on the fleet, theyre close enough to the portal that the instant ports wouldnt matter anymore then

[Sohtaraz]

No, there is a difference between a game that has a place where you can go and look for a group to run an instance and a game where everyone sits in the city waiting for a tool to makeup a group for him and then teleport him to the instance

 

can you see it? can you? yes yes ....no

shame

 

Funnely enough I remember LFG tool making me want to use my guild more becosue I was busy ripping hair out and shouting obsceneties. And while leveling up with my friend this same tool was a source of great releave to silly grind on a healer, not to mention it gave us a nice time to improve everyones day by giving people entertainment (or a quick instance run if they so saw fit). I do remember those days also when I was sitting in a city for 6 hours spamming trade like a broken record player stuck on play going over the same message every 5 minutes before getting a group.

 

Funny how it turns out.

 

Edit: This is not an argument, people use what tools they have for what means they want. You can't use an argument of peoples lazyness for something they do, not what something that is created for a purpose is being used.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Sohtaraz

[mutharex]

Funnely enough I remember LFG tool making me want to use my guild more becosue I was busy ripping hair out and shouting obsceneties. And while leveling up with my friend this same tool was a source of great releave to silly grind on a healer, not to mention it gave us a nice time to improve everyones day by giving people entertainment (or a quick instance run if they so saw fit). I do remember those days also when I was sitting in a city for 6 hours spamming trade like a broken record player stuck on play going over the same message every 5 minutes before getting a group.

 

Funny how it turns out.

 

Edit: This is not an argument, people use what tools they have for what means they want. You can't use an argument of peoples lazyness for something they do, not what something that is created for a purpose is being used.

 

LFD was launched 4 years after WoW came out because there wasn't much people at some levels to be able torun instances. This game just came out and everyone is more or less in the same level bracket. So how is TOR in need of a LFD tool? I am not saying a better LFG, I mean a LFD style tool

[Jett-Rinn]

ive been constructive in this thread, and my analasys was contructive, your reply however, was not,

 

 

Calling people names isn't not constructive. My reply was a very constructive observation of your posts. Further analyses is not what you are doing....you are critiquing non-constructively I might add by using words like Shoddy and crap.

 

If you have anything else besides "This game sucks" to say we would love to hear it.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Jett-Rinn

[Asamitai]

People are really feeding the troll in this thread.

 

51 pages and counting, way to go Sketchy.

Edited December 23, 2011 by Asamitai

[mjbig]

Mmo game at launch goes not have every single advanced feature that I want in it. Even though bioware said they were putting in support for like half your silly list.

 

Seriously, go freaking read the developer announcements that are plastered on the forum entrance troll.

[valsheres]

Then in all seriousness why are you still here? Even 2/10 is the score people give for games they want to pour petrol over, get a refund of, despite & loathe, that they'd never talk about ever again. An example: The Binding of Isaac. I could easily give that game a 2/10. I don't think you actually know how to use an out of ten score.

 

im still here because i joined with friends, and and ill leave with them, theyre having a good time atm, but they level slowly due to work, i however have always had a critical eye, being a freelance game designer myself, of what i enjoy and dislike and where improvements are needed for a more streamlined enjoyment.

 

tor has the potential to be more, but it needs time, and it certainly doesnt need a bunch of ignoramuses telling bioware they're doing a great job, when theres so many problems that the vast majority of the community refuse to accept as a flaw based on a bias opinion.

 

and yes i am aware that most of you will consider my opinion bias, but my opinion at least breaks down each point with reason, wheras most of you just say its not so "because"

 

the moment the critics of this topic start constructively breaking down each point the op has made, and giving proper reasoning as to why its not neccesary, THEN well be able to have a decent discussion

[Sohtaraz]

LFD was launched 4 years after WoW came out because there wasn't much people at some levels to be able torun instances. This game just came out and everyone is more or less in the same level bracket. So how is TOR in need of a LFD tool? I am not saying a better LFG, I mean a LFD style tool

 

Yes I know very well its history, that has nothing to do with it why it works. The low level dungeons it was designed for were not used with it becouse it was a gamble and the que tiems were too long.

 

The fact is that most people used LFD/LFG what ever you want to use it for higher level things just as much as low levels, if not more. It was an extremely efficient tool to reduce the ammount of spam on servers, there were alot of LFG tools actually before that done by mods to sort out the spam.

 

So unless your willing to bet that this game will never have high end dungeons being ran, or plenty of spam in general chats theres no reason to dismiss lfd tool at this day and age based on 'its just as easy to just use general chat'. Becouse thats what I like to do, stare at the chat screen while I'm listening to an NPC cutscene and get totally sidetracked.

 

And a ./who type of LFD/LFG tool is generally a silly idea to begin with, looking for groups should be done conviniently and passively by server in what ever form it is done. Not by players if you want to compete with other mmo's.

[Shadysketchy]

LFD was launched 4 years after WoW came out because there wasn't much people at some levels to be able torun instances. This game just came out and everyone is more or less in the same level bracket. So how is TOR in need of a LFD tool? I am not saying a better LFG, I mean a LFD style tool

 

Blatant misinformation

 

There is hardly anyone on my Server that's level 50, myself and a guy I met back on Dromund Kaas wanted to grind out some Flashpoints tonight, but there just wasn't enough people on

[Asamitai]

Blatant misinformation

 

There is hardly anyone on my Server that's level 50, myself and a guy I met back on Dromund Kaas wanted to grind out some Flashpoints tonight, but there just wasn't enough people on

 

You're the obvious exception. Most people haven't leveled fast enough to hit 50 yet. The fact that you can't find people to run dungeons with is a product of you leveling faster than most, not a lack of a LFD tool.

[mutharex]

Blatant misinformation

 

There is hardly anyone on my Server that's level 50, myself and a guy I met back on Dromund Kaas wanted to grind out some Flashpoints tonight, but there just wasn't enough people on

 

I intentionally avoided including people who power levelled to cap in 3 days an history driven MMO

 

that's your problem. 99% of players are more or less in the same bracket

[Shadysketchy]

You're the obvious exception. Most people haven't leveled fast enough to hit 50 yet. The fact that you can't find people to run dungeons with is a product of you leveling faster than most, not a lack of a LFD tool.

 

But with an LFD tool, me and that Powertech would find a group in mere seconds. With him Tanking, and me Healing, it'd find two DPS very fast, and we could actually get some entry-level gear; and you know... play the game

[MeaOnus]

While I feel that it is a shame that you didn't enjoy yourself and found that too many of the features were comparable to WoW (some of which I may agree with you on, despite the fact that you could have elaborated a little more so than just "the UI is awful I'll be brief and not requote what they've said" that really doesn't help). Sure there are things I would like to have changed and features I would love to see added to the game from the most minor (day and night cycles) to things that are a little bit more substantial (such as appearance tabs).

 

But in the end no game is perfect, I can make just as many criticisms of WoW and yet I played that off and on (mostly on) since closed beta. To me TOR does just enough to differentiate itself from other MMOs and yet keeps enough of its core gameplay and mechanics rooted in areas that have worked and continue to work for others. Plus it's Star Wars!

 

For me that was more than enough, I was incredibly tired of the high fantasy setting and much prefer my fantasy of the science fiction variety (couldn't really get into AO and EVE was just daunting).

 

See in the end the great thing about this life is that you've got a game that works for you and encompasses all of the concerns you mentioned about this one. I'm sure it's been stated over and over (yeah no way am I going to read a 51 post thread to hear everyone telling you to go back to WoW) but WoW will still be there when and if you decide to return. Sorry it didn't work out the way you had hoped, but for the record I'm more than thrilled.

 

TL;DR - Shame the OP didn't enjoy TOR but I can level just as many complaints at his game of choice. In the end, he still has a choice in his MMOs and since life is short enjoy what you're doing.

[Asamitai]

But with an LFD tool, me and that Powertech would find a group in mere seconds. With him Tanking, and me Healing, it'd find two DPS very fast, and we could actually get some entry-level gear; and you know... play the game

 

Don't blame Bioware for out leveling the majority of the player base.

[valsheres]

the server im on has most of its population spread evenly between levels 1 and 30, roughly 20-40 people per level, thats a mighty big level bracket

[Sigismundo]

Man some people on both sides of this are just so ridiculous. Not that I am surprised at all, but jeepers. It's good to have conversation on this so that the game can hopefully evolve quickly.

 

I'm currently only lvl 10 and having fun, but I do notice some things that are a big let down as of now that I would have expected to be all set. The UI would be my number one concern. I actually be fine it if there are no mods as long as they can provide the really useful stuff like better UI customization as default. No macro's is going to be annoying as well.

 

Some of the things in the op are clearly a preference thing, while others seem like they should be included.

 

I do hope this game succeeds and co-exists with wow. I like both. I see myself basically only logging into wow to raid because I have fun with that, but the rest of the game is not interesting. With SWTOR it is all new so more exciting as of now. Really hope there is some more polish by the time I get to end game content though.