I Want To Like TOR, But It Just Feels Old

[Sohtaraz]

Lol if you think this was a bad release then i do take it you normally never play MMo's from the start.

 

take AO launch and then you can talk about bad releases

 

Son, this is no where near triple A. I was refearing to Dragon Age 2.

 

Edit: And to the games credit launch is good. Missing freatures and bugs, along with alot of other problems are the issue. Let's face it its still atleast a ship that has launched unlike FF14 on its launch. ( I think they tried to make a submarine that floats on top of water, and failed on both ends... While launching it to the land instead of the sea)

Edited December 22, 2011 by Sohtaraz

[Wynternight]

I'm sorry but I can't take people seriously when they cry out doom and gloom and declare a game a "failure" so soon after release. The EGA started 13-12 and there were people really saying the game was a failure.

[valsheres]

from what ive read, most of the development money went to the voice actors, who in quite a few cases, did an utterly lousy job.

 

and to the people preaching ists only been out 2 days, fine you got that, but its been in development for over 3 years, that should account for a lot more

 

as for the game, heres a list of what i think is wrong with it, almong with some suggestions.

 

starting at the start: the character creator

 

while the body shapes for females are.. "decent" the ones for males are abhorrant, breakdown:

 

Female 1: an anorexic twig that would snap in half with a blaster bolt.

Female 2: the super model look

Female 3: the giant disproportionate superhuman steroid vacuum

Female 4: the well rounded curvy normal look (and the only one that's actually decent imho)

 

Male 1: the bobblehead, seriously his head is disproportionally huge to the rest of his body, hed break his neck putting a helmet on

Male 2: ok this ones fairly proportionate... well not really, his shoulders are far too wide for the rest of the body

male 3: see female 3.

male 4: this guy gets stuck in door, hell you need 2 spaceships just to get him off his rump.

 

summory on character models: all species are stuck in the same 4 options, theres no farther diversity, i dont know if this was lazy design or to simplify armor modeling, but considering armor is relatively simple to scale on human proportions, im going with the prior.

 

now for the rest, its fairly decent, though id like to see more options for hair,

 

currently hair is based on once again preset choices, which are made of several front, main, side and rear sections of the hairstyle, now instead of making them preset, let players choose their own combination of those, this would give more versatility to characters, and make the overall world look better in the process/

 

ditto for jewelry, if i just want earrings i dont want to be stuck with a lip piercing the size of a hutts arse.

 

moving on to.

 

starter zones: ok these are fairly decent, with enough versatility in content to be enjoyable, however certain classes have a much harder time playing through their quests than others (inquisitor being quite the b*tch when on the mission to get khem'val)

 

voice acting: while decent in many players, quite a lot of npcs share the same voice, and when youve got 12 vendors all in a line of which 8 have the same bloody voice it gets annoying, more diversity here!

 

Vendors: the vendor system is nice, its got buyback.. but where the hell is the sellback? one missclick and youre down 10k credits with no way of getting 9 of it back, design flaw, and a frustrating one, especially considering the loading tip flaw that sais alt + right click is for previewing when all that does is buy the item.

 

proffesions: a very expansive system, though it lacks in certain parts, one of the major ones being some proffesions cannot be self sufficent with a single character alone, cybertech especially, requires scavenging for base materials, underworld trading for rare goods, and slicing(investigation) for recipes,

 

oh and while im at it, the mission skills take far too long to level after reaching around 150 skill, it takes over 10 minutes for 1-2 skillups,

put into perspective if leveling them with a single companion,

250 skill ups,

2 for an orange, 1 for a yellow,

lets say you alternate for an average of 1.5 every 10 minutes (at 150, this will go up by 5 minutes every 50 skill)

51 would takes 33 trips, to hit the next tear, or 330 minutes

from 201 to 250 would take, 32 trips at 480 minutes

250 to 300 33 trips at 660 minutes

300 to 350 32 trips at 800 minutes

350 to 400, 33 trips, at 30 minutes each, 990 minutes

 

(codeword: santa's hat - post this in your reply to prove you've actually read what ive written)

 

totalling for 3260 minutes, or 54 hours and 20 minutes, non stop missions, now lets say you start with 5 companions and dont bother till 50, thats still 11 hours of nonstop missions, assuming you dont run out of missions.

 

additionally: drop the limit for a single crafting proffesion, sure its easier to supply your own materials, but you get 10 times what you need if you gather all the nodes

 

group quests: ok these are fun, with some companions the group 2 ones can be soloed, but the group 4 ones, can be tricky even with a group of 4 if you dont have a tank and healer, tone them down a notch, its not an instance, and if its designed to be that hard, at least reward them likewise (most are, but far from all)

 

commendations: give us a way to get rid of excess ones, someone in chat said there was a vendor to exchange them, well ill be damned if i can find him.

 

modifications: good system, no qualms here, except for the crystals, almost all empire commendation items come with red crystals, if i want to play light side, i cant use them, share the love and give some more orange yellow or what not for the others.

 

now, lets see, the instances are great im not going to complain about those, fast paced, bosses are enjoyable (though fairly transparent), oh one qualm, add a class specific need / greed option, im sick of seeing marauders need for vendoring, also add a third button: companion, if your active companion (if appropriate) can use the item, you should be able to roll for them, this would be above greed purposes but below need. oh and bind any item won on a need roll, might aswell kill the boe ninjas before they start showing up.

 

right i think thats all my qualms, i havent started on tatooine yet, so ive got no complaints left till then, just one suggestion.allow faction change, by going full light side as imperial, or full dark side as republic, you unlock access to a betrayal quest, to join the other side, classes could be renamed slightly if needed ie:

 

trooper - same

smuggler - same

jedi guardian - sith Warlord

jedi sentinel - sith tempest

jedi shadow - sith Shadow

jedi sage - sith Priest

bounty hunter - same

imperial agent - republic agent

sith juggernaught - Jedi Vanguard

sith Marauder - Jedi Whirlwind

sith sorcerer - Jedi Tempest

sith assassin - Jedi Nightwolf

 

quest would include gathering imperial / republic secrets, escaping from dromund kaas / curescant in a space battle with everything trying to kill you,

followed with incarceration in your new home, then the chance to prove yourself by doing something i havent come up with yet.

 

i think thats about it.

 

tl;dr: you will read this post from top to bottom *jedi mind trick*

 

discuss!

Edited December 22, 2011 by valsheres

[Sohtaraz]

I'm sorry but I can't take people seriously when they cry out doom and gloom and declare a game a "failure" so soon after release. The EGA started 13-12 and there were people really saying the game was a failure.

 

 

No one can at this day and age call a project this magnitude a failure financially since MMO market is still most profitable by microtransactions thus meaning that free to play is allways an option. Not to mention its EA and Bioware thus they actually have the money to keep it in lifesupport for a very rough ammount of time, just as Final Fantasy and Square enix. But the problem is that the brand name can Very easely be damaged by MMO games, so this game might not be failure but can have dimishing effects on the next games.

[RavenBlack]

Try taking away everything you said about wow that is less than a few months old or released in Cata then tell me what you got.

[Sohtaraz]

Try taking away everything you said about wow that is less than a few months old or released in Cata then tell me what you got.

 

You only removed transmogrphy(pie, I like transmognipie). Yes I said it correctly stop misreading it.

 

 

I don''t really see your point.

Edited December 22, 2011 by Sohtaraz

[valsheres]

idd, only transmogriphying which is a system wow was very late with, iirc EQ2 had that on release or at least shortly after

[Wynternight]

Santa's Hat! See, I read it all.

 

I really can't comment on your crafting section since I haven't delved too deeply into that apect of the game and really tend not to in most MMOs I've played, but I completely agree with the customisation. I guess CoH and Aion spoiled me since the character customisation options there are stunning.

 

I also like the betrayal idea since Falling/Redemption are big motifs in the SW universe.

 

 

 

from what ive read, most of the development money went to the voice actors, who in quite a few cases, did an utterly lousy job.

 

and to the people preaching ists only been out 2 days, fine you got that, but its been in development for over 3 years, that should account for a lot more

 

as for the game, heres a list of what i think is wrong with it, almong with some suggestions.

 

starting at the start: the character creator

 

while the body shapes for females are.. "decent" the ones for males are abhorrant, breakdown:

 

Female 1: an anorexic twig that would snap in half with a blaster bolt.

Female 2: the super model look

Female 3: the giant disproportionate superhuman steroid vacuum

Female 4: the well rounded curvy normal look (and the only one that's actually decent imho)

 

Male 1: the bobblehead, seriously his head is disproportionally huge to the rest of his body, hed break his neck putting a helmet on

Male 2: ok this ones fairly proportionate... well not really, his shoulders are far too wide for the rest of the body

male 3: see female 3.

male 4: this guy gets stuck in door, hell you need 2 spaceships just to get him off his rump.

 

summory on character models: all species are stuck in the same 4 options, theres no farther diversity, i dont know if this was lazy design or to simplify armor modeling, but considering armor is relatively simple to scale on human proportions, im going with the prior.

 

now for the rest, its fairly decent, though id like to see more options for hair,

 

currently hair is based on once again preset choices, which are made of several front, main, side and rear sections of the hairstyle, now instead of making them preset, let players choose their own combination of those, this would give more versatility to characters, and make the overall world look better in the process/

 

ditto for jewelry, if i just want earrings i dont want to be stuck with a lip piercing the size of a hutts arse.

 

moving on to.

 

starter zones: ok these are fairly decent, with enough versatility in content to be enjoyable, however certain classes have a much harder time playing through their quests than others (inquisitor being quite the b*tch when on the mission to get khem'val)

 

voice acting: while decent in many players, quite a lot of npcs share the same voice, and when youve got 12 vendors all in a line of which 8 have the same bloody voice it gets annoying, more diversity here!

 

Vendors: the vendor system is nice, its got buyback.. but where the hell is the sellback? one missclick and youre down 10k credits with no way of getting 9 of it back, design flaw, and a frustrating one, especially considering the loading tip flaw that sais alt + right click is for previewing when all that does is buy the item.

 

proffesions: a very expansive system, though it lacks in certain parts, one of the major ones being some proffesions cannot be self sufficent with a single character alone, cybertech especially, requires scavenging for base materials, underworld trading for rare goods, and slicing(investigation) for recipes,

 

oh and while im at it, the mission skills take far too long to level after reaching around 150 skill, it takes over 10 minutes for 1-2 skillups,

put into perspective if leveling them with a single companion,

250 skill ups,

2 for an orange, 1 for a yellow,

lets say you alternate for an average of 1.5 every 10 minutes (at 150, this will go up by 5 minutes every 50 skill)

51 would takes 33 trips, to hit the next tear, or 330 minutes

from 201 to 250 would take, 32 trips at 480 minutes

250 to 300 33 trips at 660 minutes

300 to 350 32 trips at 800 minutes

350 to 400, 33 trips, at 30 minutes each, 990 minutes

 

(codeword: santa's hat - post this in your reply to prove you've actually read what ive written)

 

totalling for 3260 minutes, or 54 hours and 20 minutes, non stop missions, now lets say you start with 5 companions and dont bother till 50, thats still 11 hours of nonstop missions, assuming you dont run out of missions.

 

additionally: drop the limit for a single crafting proffesion, sure its easier to supply your own materials, but you get 10 times what you need if you gather all the nodes

 

group quests: ok these are fun, with some companions the group 2 ones can be soloed, but the group 4 ones, can be tricky even with a group of 4 if you dont have a tank and healer, tone them down a notch, its not an instance, and if its designed to be that hard, at least reward them likewise (most are, but far from all)

 

commendations: give us a way to get rid of excess ones, someone in chat said there was a vendor to exchange them, well ill be damned if i can find him.

 

modifications: good system, no qualms here, except for the crystals, almost all empire commendation items come with red crystals, if i want to play light side, i cant use them, share the love and give some more orange yellow or what not for the others.

 

now, lets see, the instances are great im not going to complain about those, fast paced, bosses are enjoyable (though fairly transparent), oh one qualm, add a class specific need / greed option, im sick of seeing marauders need for vendoring, also add a third button: companion, if your active companion (if appropriate) can use the item, you should be able to roll for them, this would be above greed purposes but below need. oh and bind any item won on a need roll, might aswell kill the boe ninjas before they start showing up.

 

right i think thats all my qualms, i havent started on tatooine yet, so ive got no complaints left till then, just one suggestion.allow faction change, by going full light side as imperial, or full dark side as republic, you unlock access to a betrayal quest, to join the other side, classes could be renamed slightly if needed ie:

 

trooper - same

smuggler - same

jedi guardian - sith Warlord

jedi sentinel - sith tempest

jedi shadow - sith Shadow

jedi sage - sith Priest

bounty hunter - same

imperial agent - republic agent

sith juggernaught - Jedi Vanguard

sith Marauder - Jedi Whirlwind

sith sorcerer - Jedi Tempest

sith assassin - Jedi Nightwolf

 

quest would include gathering imperial / republic secrets, escaping from dromund kaas / curescant in a space battle with everything trying to kill you,

followed with incarceration in your new home, then the chance to prove yourself by doing something i havent come up with yet.

 

i think thats about it.

 

tl;dr: you will read this post from top to bottom *jedi mind trick*

 

discuss!

[Theninjafuzz]

I agree that the UI is awful, Taris should be fixed, Addons should be in the game and some other issues. However, this game is still brand new and it is great in its own right. I disagree that it feels old. It feels brand new and has a lot of room for improvement as time goes forward.

 

As it stands it is an extremely fun game, maybe not as polished as WoW, but it holds a candle for sure.

[Sohtaraz]

(Am I supposed to say Santa's hat too if I read it? I thought it only ment people opposing your point of view) But to be fair wouldn't turned jedi's on sith's side be called something like Mercaneries or Force users? Thats what I recall seeing earlier, or just "Dark [add a fancy jedi title like pink princess, I mean guardian]".

[valsheres]

i suppose though it depends, revan was a jedi, and after his fall to the dark side he became a full darth, i suppose thats up for debate

[Oriox]

Sadly these are all true and legitimate complaints. I will give Bioware a few months of "grace period" to fix them though. I don't really have anything else to play, but when GW2 comes out I'm jumping on that ship right away.

[Sohtaraz]

Yeah I just mean its kinda silly to have two exact same classes with difrent ability names, yet totally difrent names wheres they could be called instead of [sith marauder] just [Fallen Marauder] [Goodytooshoes Marauder] or just Sith [whatever was jedi marauder].

[Cavadus]

I can stomach the game only because it is Star Wars but it's true that TOR is probably the least innovative or new MMO to ever be released. It absolutely feels ancient and out-dated in almost every respect.

 

The verbatim plagiarization of WoW's combat system was a huge mistake.

[Propanelgen]

I laughed pretty hard when I read this. You should try not skipping every dialog you get - if you hate story and like skipping it, you should really go back to WoW.

 

I skip all dialogue, but like the game anyhow. Why should he go back to WoW if he dislikes waiting 5 minutes to grab a quest or answer a question?

[MrGreenGiant]

The Poster is obviously missing the point behind this game.

 

This is an MMO about story. It is the first MMO to truly emphasize story, instead of boring grinding.

 

This game is unique. I am honestly not missing any of the features you mentioned, as I know they will be added to later patches.

 

The whole, "I really want to like this game", sounds like utter BS to me. Its obvious you wont be happy until you get your WOW meets Star Wars Clone.

 

Also, the 2007 graphics comment is laughable. With everything turned on high it is easily the best MMO I have seen/played.

 

On another note...the whole, "Get to level 40 and you will understand" comment makes you sound like a loser. I am sorry, if you get to level 40 within 1 week of playing you need help.

[Neara]

The sheer unwillingness to accept straight facts some people put on display here really baffles me. An old MMO has had 7 years to improve since launch, that''s why TOR should ignore these improvements and start where the other title started - seven years ago? Seriously? You''re basically saying that this game will always be seven years behind the other one, simply because the latter has had more launch time.

 

TOR being out for only two days changes nothing, we are not going to see fundamental changes in a few weeks time. Comparing it to any other MMO out there is valid as they''re all released products on a competitive market. You wouldn''t accept outdated mechanics in a new car just because the car is new and might get there after a few repairs/replacements. Get realistic.

[Smokt]

So honestly, I really do want to like this game. And I do think it has some positive features, including Star Wars I''ve always like the Star Wars movies. Unfortunately, TOR just feels really old. Even compared to World of Warcraft, which actually is very old (over 7 years now), this feels elderly.

 

The following are some things that make TOR feel old:

 

- No LFG Tool (been in WoW for over 2 years... absolutely baffled as to how this hasn''t been developed for TOR yet)

 

- Awful UI I could make an entire thread about this (and people already have), but for the sake of brevity, I''ll just restate that it''s awful

 

- Pet AI is horrible, between the delay on commanding their auto attack, their hilarious pathing errors, and many others it''s safe to say giving every Class+Spec a pet was a bad idea, without first giving them AI that''s passable in 2011

 

- 2007 graphics (The Skybox being a 2D Painting is particularly insulting)

 

- No Day/Night Cylce

 

- No accessable body of water deeper than 6 inches

 

- Server queues (Had queues in WoW for Vanilla, BC, and Wrath but not Cata, Blizzard has evolved, BioWare has not)

 

- Lackluster Character Creation

 

- Absurd Leveling curve the overall process of getting from 1-50 is pretty fast, but the curve for time per level increases at a rate that makes me feel like I''m playing Aion again

 

- Three Warzones, No Arenas (also consider Huttball cannot be taken seriously as Rated PvP). Again TOR is competing with 2011 WoW (8 Battlegrounds, 4 of which can be done Rated + Arena Content)

 

- No Macros

 

- No mouseover casting

 

- No addon support

 

- No Dual Spec

 

- Taris memory leaks (should have been fixed in Beta, not "overnight" a week after Early Access started for the game''s release build)

 

- Lack of variety in quests everything is kill X amount of Y, unlike WoW where they''ve added a lot of variation (for better or for worse) in the quests, which makes leveling feel less grindy

 

- Voice Actors voicing too many different people I don''t think I''ve seen this many Characters with the same Voice Actor, since the first Deus Ex game

 

- Player Character repeating Dialogue from other conversations (My Sith Inquisitor has said "I''ll show you what a Sith can do!" like 5 times now, and other less memorably rhyming are equally if not more common)

 

- "Choices" are still just the Blue good guy option, or the Red bad guy option — this was kinda new in KOTOR, and still cool in both Mass Effects but unimpressive today

 

- No Mount until level 25 it only takes a couple hours to get your first Mount in WoW these days. No idea why this was considered a good idea

 

- Awkward gold having over 500,000 gold by the time you hit 40 is... silly, and will be a major hassle as the game ages and gold inflation occurs

 

- A vast array of technical errors that BioWare, and easily amused Players will chalk up to "Every launch has issues, go play WoW kid!" but nonetheless detract from gameplay, and are hard to excuse in a 2011 title

 

- No Appearance/Gear Customization such as WoW''s Transmogrification, or a standard MMO Appearance Tab (weird in a game where we watch ourselves talk so much)

 

- No Barbershop for minor character recustomization (again, weird in a game where we watch so much of our character speaking)

 

- More — I will expand on this as more things pop into my mind, these are the ones currently at the forefront of my thought process

 

Anyway, do you guys feel the same way? Maybe you don''t see the logic in some of my points (but you will once you get to level 40+), but you''ve probably noticed the game feels old. I''m worried that this feeling will plague the launch, and the early days of the game. This will both turn away new players, and create a jaded community problems that get worse and worse as time goes on. Hopefully the game can be improved enough though, I do like it.

 

TLDR, I think TOR feels old, what do you think?

 

I agree. See my thread about the budget. Where did it go?

Plus combat is just pretty much NOT FUN.

Hope to god the raids at endgame are legit

[valsheres]

The Poster is obviously missing the point behind this game.

 

This is an MMO about story. It is the first MMO to truly emphasize story, instead of boring grinding.

 

This game is unique. I am honestly not missing any of the features you mentioned, as I know they will be added to later patches.

 

The whole, "I really want to like this game", sounds like utter BS to me. Its obvious you wont be happy until you get your WOW meets Star Wars Clone.

 

Also, the 2007 graphics comment is laughable. With everything turned on high it is easily the best MMO I have seen/played.

 

On another note...the whole, "Get to level 40 and you will understand" comment makes you sound like a loser. I am sorry, if you get to level 40 within 1 week of playing you need help.

 

youve never played rift with every on max then, this game looks crap with everything on full

[RobRich]

Rawr I''m mad this game isnt WoW! Get over it go play WoW, I''d rather you do that that post stupid **** on the forums. K thanks bye.

[Darkeus]

Lol, so I see the trolls and complainers sit on the forums while the rest of us play.

 

Oh geeze.... Every MMO has to evolve. Trying to cram too much in at the beginning ends up hurting the game somehow.

[Aroseby]

Well after reading alot of the negativity in this thread I only have one thing to say. It seems the competition is in overdrive to try and ruin this game. Good luck with that Blizzard trolls. How freakin obvious really

[Aroseby]

Well after reading alot of the negativity in this thread I only have one thing to say. It seems the competition is in overdrive to try and ruin this game. Good luck with that Blizzard trolls. How freakin obvious really

 

LoL quoting myself /sigh I said this based on some of the extremely long posts designed to confuse people and give some sort of credence to what they say. My response is this a lot of people who already play know that what u say is mostly false and we are not going to be swayed by this simply put if u dont like dont play it sheesh. But that isnt what these posts are about am sick of poeple misrepresenting what this game really is

[timidobserver]

For lack of other words, I am sort of a MMO Vet. I''ve played a lot of them. Having experience with multiple MMO launches, I am getting what I expected. Where the game will succeed or fail at is in future content and updates.

 

Anyone that expects the game to have the same content as a game that has been adding content for a decade is just not being real with themselves.

 

The entire appeal to an MMO is that you get a constantly evolving upgrading game, which is why you pay monthly. I think that TOR certainly has more than enough content and things to do for now. How fast they start adding stuff in is what will make the game for me. For example, Dual Specs should be in by early March at the latest.

[Sohtaraz]

Well after reading alot of the negativity in this thread I only have one thing to say. It seems the competition is in overdrive to try and ruin this game. Good luck with that Blizzard trolls. How freakin obvious really

 

 

 

So let''s see: Your looking at an MMO, something that people dedicate alot of time in and are passionate about, and your complaining about compettion in MMO market? This has NOTHING to do with overdrive thatsj ust how it is. People are passionate about things they care, and when they see something clearly wrong they tend to point it out.

 

Now people who see that as hostility are people who can''t say they are wrong, people who have geniun bad experiences and its an automatic defence for them, or young people.

 

Yet you assuming everyone is from blizzard and troll is actually a point in the young person category, and pritty far up there considering that most people are pointing out recent MMO competition not WoW. See WoW is one of those selffulfilling prohecys that happens when something becomes over popular thus people leave it for other games creating a player base that is extremely good for testing games since they understand basic class mechanics and behaviour of MMO''s.

 

Funnely enough pointing out that MMO veterans are somehow bad for your games when they point out negative things about it is redicilous, it is the exact opposit what you want to do in a long term gaming experience since these veterans are the ones willing to spend alot of time on a game wheres more casual people will play it for a while, get fed up and leave.

 

Now do to these people actually wanting to spend alot of time in an MMO these people actually are willing to show respect, and listen to other peoples arguments instead of yelling "troll" like a teenager on 4chan and discussing problems openly since they want those problems solved so they can go back to playing the game that they enjoy.

 

 

So please, if you don''t have anything constructive to say don''t troll and do personal insults. It just makes the community look even worst.