The REAL Most Powerful Sith

[tunewalker]

Yes it has to be Darth Tenebrous if we choose anyone bound to the Rule of Two.

 

Ya that's the one I meant didn't read Plageus...... not a big Sith fan guess that's why I only have 1 imp character and all 4 republic characters

[Beniboybling]

Yes it has to be Darth Tenebrous if we choose anyone bound to the Rule of Two.

But we know next to nothing on Tenebrous so placing him is extremely difficult. The same can be said of all members all members of the Order not on the list excluding Bane and Zannah.

[Aurbere]

TBH, I haven't really seen Bane do much without being in a nexus or having his orbalisks.

[Beniboybling]

TBH, I haven't really seen Bane do much without being in a nexus or having his orbalisks.

What about everything else on my list...

[Aurbere]

What about everything else on my list...

 

Well I'm starting to think Bane may be a better candidate, I mean just look at his feats in Alter:

 

 

• Could generate tremendous Force waves that could bring down entire buildings.
   
  
• Had a great enough willpower to rip the information he required from Darth Anneddu's holocron.
  

 

 

Those are the only valid ones on your list, I believe. The rest were done on a nexus, with help, or with orbalisks.

[LadyKulvax]

But we know next to nothing on Tenebrous so placing him is extremely difficult. The same can be said of all members all members of the Order not on the list excluding Bane and Zannah.

 

Yet we know Tenebrous was extremely proficient with precognitive abilities able to foresee his own death and even the death of his own apprentice at the hands of Darth Sidious, had very powerful force lighting(rare red form), highly proficient telekinetic powers able to hold up multiple heavy rocks to protect both himself and Plagueis and had high proficiency with Force Speed which he passed on to Plagueis and had powerful enough Force Shields to protect himself and Plagueis from a large explosion.

[Beniboybling]

Those are the only valid ones on your list, I believe. The rest were done on a nexus, with help, or with orbalisks.

Actually no, all these were done without the aid of a nexus or orbalisks:

 

 

• Could generate tremendous Force waves that could bring down entire buildings.
   
   
  
• Could generate Force lightning bearing traits of the Force storm with enough power to char opponents on contact [and utterly destroy his supposedly indestructible orbalisk armour.]
   
   
  
• Had a great enough willpower to rip the information he required from Darth Anneddu's holocron.
  

 

Nor should we disregard his feats with orbalisks, dark side nexuses or assistance One still has to be powerful to tap into that kind of power, regardless Dooku has not matched any of the above.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Beniboybling

[LadyKulvax]

Ugh, i can't believe we have forgotten, the real most powerful Sith and Jedi has to be without a doubt Dead-Eye Duncan.

[Aurbere]

Actually no, all these were done without the aid of a nexus or orbalisks:

 

[*]Could generate Force lightning bearing traits of the Force storm with enough power to char opponents on contact [and utterly destroy his supposedly indestructible orbalisk armour.]

 

Could you remind the situation for this one. I mat be mistaken, but was that not done during the duel on Tython when Bane's lightning was redirected at him?

 

Regardless, because of the RoT, Tenebrous gets dibs on any spot before Bane.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Aurbere

[Beniboybling]

Yet we know Tenebrous was extremely proficient with precognitive abilities able to foresee his own death and even the death of his own apprentice at the hands of Darth Sidious, had very powerful force lighting(rare red form), highly proficient telekinetic powers able to hold up multiple heavy rocks to protect both himself and Plagueis and had high proficiency with Force Speed which he passed on to Plagueis and had powerful enough Force Shields to protect himself and Plagueis from a large explosion.

Precognition is an innate talent, but impressive nonetheless.

 

His Force lightning is powerful, but Bane's was just as powerful. It could incinerate opponents and with only basic training took on the characteristics of a Force storm.

 

Bane used telekinesis to bring down entire buildings and shatter the Force barriers of Force sensitives with ease.

 

Bane has never displayed the ability to create Force barriers but he has shattered the barriers of others with ease.

[Beniboybling]

Could you remind the situation for this one. I mat be mistaken, but was that not done during the duel on Tython when Bane's lightning was redirected at him?

 

Regardless, because of the RoT, Tenebrous gets dibs on any spot before Bane.

No, that was when he chased down a bunch of mercenaries on Ruusaan and zapped them all dead.

[Aurbere]

No, that was when he chased down a bunch of mercenaries on Ruusaan and zapped them all dead.

 

Ooohh. Alright.

[marcelo_sdk]

But given the point of his Rule of Two he has to be the weakest member of the Order of the Sith Lords otherwise his entire legacy had no point.

 

Forgive me guys, but if everyone think that way, you are completely single-minded. Yes, his plan was the apprentice killing the master after becaming stronger. But you have to remember, the Sith are people, not robots. They'll not follow a "programming" blindly. Ultimately, all Sith from the Rule of Two wanted to rise to dominance and rule unchallenged.

 

Just try to remember, what Sith Lord we have information about, killed his master fair and square, without taking advantage of the situation? Just Darth Zannah and Darth Gean.

 

So, this logic you guys try to impose is wrong, it makes no sense if you really know SW lore, and knowing that all of you do, more than me, I'm sure you'll realize this.

 

All that said, I'm conflicted for #10, between Tyranus and Bane. I'll wait for some arguments to be thrown at the table, and see if I can take a side.

[S_W_LeGenD]

Legend I informed you how this I which to hold this debate, and it is not through one-sided, longwinded arguments. I gave you the opportunity to have this discussion in the proper format once the debate is concluded, but you refused to cooperate, and if all your going to do is resort to your usual immaturity and rudeness then consider it withdrawn.

 

I'm sure with that attitude everyone will flock to your thread.

 

EDIT: Again you are not doing yourself any favours, this kind of behavior, and your behavior in general is just going to lead to people rejecting your arguments out of principle no matter how valid they are.

This format:-

 

Legend, forgive me but I refuse to let this thread get debunked by another of your long-winded arguments. Especially about canon. If you want to debate that Caedus is more powerful than Sith Emperor 1. wait until the list is completed and 2. do it through the proper structure that has been used throughout these threads i.e. in terms of the categories of Force powers.

 

Control

Sense

Alter

 

???

 

---

 

How am I supposed to present my argument in this kind of format? Care to elaborate? I have made a whole thread dedicated to feats and characteristics of Vitiate and it should be enough.

 

You offered an argument in favor of Caedus (post # 298) and I addressed it on point by point basis in return with lot of information. What is wrong with this kind of approach?

 

Please keep in mind that English is not the first language of every member here; make these discussions convenient for everybody.

 

I have requested you to (not necessarily respond to) my post # 314 but rather read it and consider information provided in it in your final evaluation. Not a difficult request, I presume.

 

This quote:

 

"Luke could not defeat Lord Nyax in a duel even though he was already touted as the most powerful Jedi in history during this time."

 

Is quite obviously from an out-of-universe perspective, so I find it incredibly hard to believe it was mentioned in the in-universe novel you quoted, which is written from an entirely different perspective. Trust me, I'm paying close attention.

That is my personal statement.

 

I posted it in quoted form for OP for convenience basis. I think I should have used the official quoting system to avoid confusion.

 

You'll find however that Legend conveniently chooses to ignore the most compelling argument in Caedus favour, the fact that Luke Skywalker feared that if not dealt with soon he would become more powerful than all of them i.e. Caedus had the potential to become more powerful than Luke Skywalker. Noting that Luke Skywalker has first hand experienced of Caedus' force potential and at the same age Luke defeated the Emperor in lightsaber combat and the Force albeit with the help of his untrained sister.

 

All we can take from this is that Luke and Caedus are close in terms of power, which I feel is justification for his position.

So you are considering possibilities as well?

 

Well, you realize how powerful Vitiate would have become if he had not been stopped from completing his ultimate plan?

 

He would have surpassed Force-user (of every nature) in power afterwards; also would have exterminated all life-forms in the galaxy. Nothing beats this kind of hype.

Edited July 28, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

[Aurbere]

???

 

---

 

How am I supposed to present my argument in this kind of format? Care to elaborate? I have made a whole thread dedicated to feats and characteristics of Vitiate and it should be enough.

 

It's fairly simple. Present Vitiate's abilities in the three realms of Force powers: Sense, Control, and Alter. We've been doing this since the beginning of this series.

[Beniboybling]

Please keep in mind that English is not the first language of every member here; make these discussions convenient for everybody.

Lol what? If you need a translation, use Google.

I have requested you to (not necessarily respond to) my post # 314 but rather read it and consider information provided in it in your final evaluation. Not a difficult request, I presume.

I already have. I'm aware of all your arguments, and also the fact that your never going to change your mind, so having such a circular and long-winded discussion is pointless.

That is my personal statement.

 

I posted it in quoted form for OP for convenience basis. I think I should have used the official quoting system to avoid confusion.

Yeah, I'm sure. I bet even the non-English speaking folk recognise the fabricated nonsense coming out of your mouth.

So you are considering possibilities as well?

 

Well, you realize how powerful Vitiate would have become if he had not been stopped from completing his ultimate plan?

 

He would have surpassed Force-user (of every nature) in power afterwards; also would have exterminated all life-forms in the galaxy. Nothing beats this kind of hype.

Except their is a key difference here, with Caedus it is natural potential, whereas with the Sith Emperor it is unnatural. Which means with the latter we can't draw any significant conclusions on how powerful he was at the time, as the ritual (which may very well have failed) could have increased his power to such levels that it would have eclipsed his previous incarnation. However with Caedus it is just a natural progression. If Caedus would become more powerful than Skywalker in a few years time, or even less. Think how powerful he must have been already.

 

Also take note of the difference between would and could, with Caedus it was inevitable, with the Sith Emperor is was at best a maybe - we have no assurance that the ritual would have without a doubt succeeded.

 

In reality the only edge that Vitiate has over Caedus is Sith Magic. However we have to consider that as an innate ability, Caedus is simply incapable of this, but this does not discredit him at all as an individual. Looking at what Vitiate has done outside the sphere of Sith magic is the more important. As is the above reality.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Aurbere]

Were you not the guy who made that thread awhile ago that said that plagueis with his respirator would kill the sith emperor?

 

Yup. Would you like to file a complaint?

[Selenial]

I already have. I'm aware of all your arguments, and also the fact that your never going to change your mind, so having such a circular and long-winded discussion is pointless.

 

Indeed. Truer words have yet to be spoken...

[Beniboybling]

Currently working on a comparison between Caedus and the Sith Emperor, I don't know why I bother but whatever. If this debate is going to happen it may as well happen healthily. I'll probably finish it tommorow.

[marcelo_sdk]

Currently working on a comparison between Caedus and the Sith Emperor, I don't know why I bother but whatever. If this debate is going to happen it may as well happen healthily. I'll probably finish it tommorow.

 

Think we should settle Tyranus vs. Bane for #10 before that, right?

[TalonVII]

Think we should settle Tyranus vs. Bane for #10 before that, right?

 

Bane, definitely Bane before Tyrannus. Bane would spank the ever loving HELL out of Tyrannus and not even break a sweat.

 

Reason Skywalker beat him, form II cannot take the kenetic blows of Form V.

[Aurbere]

Bane, definitely Bane before Tyrannus. Bane would spank the ever loving HELL out of Tyrannus and not even break a sweat.

 

Reason Skywalker beat him, form II cannot take the kenetic blows of Form V.

 

This isn't a vs. thread. It's a thread based on power. Lightsaber skill doesn't matter here.

[S_W_LeGenD]

Lol what? If you need a translation, use Google.

I have an issue with your so-called format. My point is that you should make these discussions convenient for everybody.

 

I already have. I'm aware of all your arguments, and also the fact that your never going to change your mind, so having such a circular and long-winded discussion is pointless.

I do change my mind if opposition presents convincing arguments.

 

For example: You made a distinction between The Ones and Celestials in a different discussion in a different thread and I didn't dispute this much because you may have a point in this case. Though I will check out the associated sources to verify your claim for personal satisfaction but this shouldn't bother you if you are correct.

 

So do not presume that I am not flexible in my perceptions. If I am defending certain points, that is because of canon based reasons.

 

Yeah, I'm sure. I bet even the non-English speaking folk recognise the fabricated nonsense coming out of your mouth.

Excuse me?

 

You and (many others) commonly tout Luke as the most powerful Jedi in the mythos. I pointed out a fact that he couldn't defeat Nyax on his own; Tahiri and Vong defeated Nyax. I have presented spoilers about this fight in this thread to prove my point.

 

Think before you make an absurd remark concerning me.

 

Except their is a key difference here, with Caedus it is natural potential, whereas with the Sith Emperor it is unnatural. Which means with the latter we can't draw any significant conclusions on how powerful he was at the time, as the ritual (which may very well have failed) could have increased his power to such levels that it would have eclipsed his previous incarnation. However with Caedus it is just a natural progression. If Caedus would become more powerful than Skywalker in a few years time, or even less. Think how powerful he must have been already.

 

Also take note of the difference between would and could, with Caedus it was inevitable, with the Sith Emperor is was at best a maybe - we have no assurance that the ritual would have without a doubt succeeded.

 

In reality the only edge that Vitiate has over Caedus is Sith Magic. However we have to consider that as an innate ability, Caedus is simply incapable of this, but this does not discredit him at all as an individual. Looking at what Vitiate has done outside the sphere of Sith magic is the more important. As is the above reality.

Sith Emperor spent centuries to prepare himself for the greatest ritual to be attempted; he was naturally gifted in the use of dark side and Sith Sorcery and he touched new heights with his talents. Therefore, likelihood of his success was much greater then otherwise, because Sith Emperor feared death and wouldn't have attempted something without adequate preparation which would have led to his fall.

 

Also, why create a distinction between natural and unnatural? Sidious also grew in power in unnatural ways but you do not have an issue with that? Why double-standards for Vitiate only?

 

Furthermore, Sith Sorcery is essential part of dark side based skillset of a character. For example: Zannah managed to defeat Bane on the basis of her Sith Sorcery based skillset, which is still a fair development.

 

 

Darth Bane had referred to sorcery as one of the purest expressions of the dark side of the Force, and yet he hadn’t been able to harness those energies with near the skill as had his onetime apprentice Zannah. Bane’s disciples, however, believed that he had experimented with a technique of even greater significance: that of essence transfer, which he had learned after acquiring and plundering the holocron of Darth Andeddu, and which involved the relocation of an individual’s consciousness into another body or, in some cases, a talisman, temple, or sarcophagus. (Star Wars: Darth Plagueis)

 

 

Sith Sorcery is a specialized branch of Sith Inquisitor curriculum.

 

Indeed. Truer words have yet to be spoken...

You address your negativity first and then pinpoint errors in others. Thus far, you have failed to be productive in these debates.

Edited July 29, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD

[Selenial]

You address your negativity first and then pinpoint errors in others. Thus far, you have failed to be productive in these debates.

There is no such thing as being productive in a debate where the debater refuses to open his mind to new possibilities or opinions.

Ever heard of saving your breath? Yeh, I'm actually posting on worthwhile things, like the list in the OP... (The entire list, not one rank on it)

[S_W_LeGenD]

There is no such thing as being productive in a debate where the debater refuses to open his mind to new possibilities or opinions.

Ever heard of saving your breath? Yeh, I'm actually posting on worthwhile things, like the list in the OP... (The entire list, not one rank on it)

You are not in the position to give a verdict about flexibility of other members and neither you should do this. If I am stubborn to a certain degree, so is Beni and many others. I am (personally) open to all kinds of possibilities. However, I cannot reach a middle ground with Beni, if he refuses to cooperate.

 

I have commented on other characters in this thread as well. Though I pointed out before (in this thread) that I would focus on one character at a time. This debate isn't over.

Edited July 29, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD