Aurbere Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 (edited) I always assume that Traya being more powerful than Surik is because of the nexus on Malachor V. Edited July 27, 2013 by Aurbere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 27, 2013 Author Share Posted July 27, 2013 (edited) You know what. Nvrm. Edited July 28, 2013 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 27, 2013 Author Share Posted July 27, 2013 (edited) Beni, you are trying to disregard my responses. You gave a detailed response (in favor of information offered by another member) to me and I responded in kind with arguments which may help this debate come to quicker end then you anticipate. I expect you to read all of my responses at minimum. This kind of topic have the tendency to result in lengthy debates. Why shy away from them? If you need time for re-evaluation, be my guest.Point me to the instance where that style of debating has gotten us anywhere and haven't lead to ridiculously lengthy and inconclusive discussion. You will find none. Hence why I am avoiding them. EDIT: Also this thread is not for discussing canon. So I am simply going to ignore that. Edited July 28, 2013 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 27, 2013 Author Share Posted July 27, 2013 (edited) The fight on the whole is very big.I asked for a source for that quote. Edited July 28, 2013 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 I also second Aurbere's nomination for Dooku, he was chosen as Sidious' apprentice for a reason. And he was believed to be the Chosen One for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaxem Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 (edited) I also second Aurbere's nomination for Dooku, he was chosen as Sidious' apprentice for a reason. And he was believed to be the Chosen One for a reason. hmmm i never knew he was believed to be the chosen one i just never really thought much of dooku besides his lightsaber combat skills tho none of my opinions even matter since i just started reading all the book not to long ago i haven't touched any from the timeline of the movies just yet expect for darth plagueis Edited July 28, 2013 by Zaxem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 hmmm i never knew he was believed to be the chosen one i just never really thought much of dooku besides his lightsaber combat skills tho none of my opinions even matter since i just started reading all the book not to long ago i haven't touched any from the timeline of the movies just yet expect for darth plagueis You'll find that Darth Plagueis (novel) will be superior to the majority of novels you read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzuliki Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 I'd say Tyranus for 10th as well. I was going to say Darth Talon, but I don't have anything to back it up in the slightest. I just like her as a Sith. So yeah, Tyranus <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGTeMpLaR Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 (edited) Hopefully the above with alleviate your concerns. Noting that this thread is operating under notion that, as none of these texts have yet to be updated, they are still valid canon sources. Quote: Vader imagined the power that could be his if he crushed Palpatine and established his own rule over the Empire. But first, he would need his own apprentice. By himself, he could not hope to defeat the most powerful Sith Lord the galaxy had ever known. --Taken from Vader: The Ultimate Guide Quote: Yoda went after Palpatine in the empty Senate chamber, but could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history. --Taken from The New Essential Chronology Quote: Beyond the vision of the Jedi Knights, somewhere within the darkness, the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power bides his time. As his strength grows, his plans begin to shape the course of the galaxy, and his snares await the unsuspecting. --Taken from The Complete Visual Dictionary Quote: When Yoda crosses sabers with the movie's arch-villain, he doesn't launch into a pinwheeling display of acrobatics, as he did against Count Dooku in Episode II. Instead, Yoda faces the dark side's fury, channeled by the most powerful Sith Lord in history. "Rob Coleman wanted Yoda to feel the power of his enemy," says Wheless, "like a force he's never dealt with before." --Taken from Insider #86: Yoda's Right Arm Quote: Inside the spacious interior of the Galactic Senate chamber, Yoda challenged the Emperor. The two engaged in a spectacular duel—a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force’s light and dark sides. --Taken from The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia Thanks for providing some quotes. However, I find some of them to be problematic. Not that they should be disregarded, but that the context in which they used is relevant to determining their undisputed, objective truth. 1 - The first quote is clearly limited in it's perspective, being a first hand account of Darth Vader. While he's surely educated to some degree in Sith History, it definitely doesn't qualify him to make the claim in the quote represented here. 2 - I'd have to know more about the context. If it's a first-hand perspective of Yoda, then it suffers from the same problems as the above quote - probably even more-so due to the fact that he wasn't ever apprenticed as a Sith and likely knew even less of Sith history in relation to Palpatine's power than Vader did. 3 - I can't really criticize this quote without knowing the context. Who's the one writing it? On a lesser, perhaps more technical point, "the greatest master of evil ever to use Sith power" isn't necessarily equivocal to "the most powerful Sith ever". 4 - I'd have to ask who is Wheless (lead animator?) and what are his qualifications for determining Star Wars Lore. As far as I kneow, the only person capable of making a definitive, indisputable statement about the Lore of Star Wars is Lucas himself. More importantly though, there's a good chance here that his saying "channeled by the most powerful Sith Lord in history" is simply an overdramatization of the truth because it sounds like he's just doing a promotional interview for the film. Sure you could take his quote here to literally mean he is saying Sidious is the most powerful Sith Lord in history, but I don't think that was what he was attempting to convey in that interview and I don't think he was actually going through his mind and considering the ramifications of such a bold claim. 5 - This criticism is merely about the quote being said in the present tense. It says nothing about past or future practitioners of the Force's dark side. I'm not saying I've discredited these quotes in any way whatsoever because as a collection, they're all still good evidence that goes to support your argument that Sidious is in fact the most powerful Sith Lord ever. I'm just very skeptical that these quotes guarantee the certainty you seek with indisputable proof such that any further discourse on the subject is rendered meaningless. If there isn't something more concrete, possibly a Lucas confirmation of the matter, I would say the title of most powerful Sith ever is still disputable. Edited July 28, 2013 by GGTeMpLaR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S_W_LeGenD Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 (edited) Point me to the instance where that style of debating has gotten us anywhere and haven't lead to ridiculously lengthy and inconclusive discussion. You will find none. Hence why I am avoiding them. EDIT: Also this thread is not for discussing canon. So I am simply going to ignore that. More excuses; fanboy behavior. I asked for a source for that quote. I mentioned the source. Are you not paying attention? --- B/W Darth Bane is superior to Count Dooku Edited July 28, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxwolfbloodxx Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 I read his post. I disagreed. Were you not the guy who made that thread awhile ago that said that plagueis with his respirator would kill the sith emperor? I don't get all this hate for the sith emperor. If you take the time and read all the sources that Legend posted I think they clearly show that the Emperor was the 2nd strongest sith and as soon as Disney wipes out all the post ROTJ eu I think you can make the case the sith emperor is if not stronger at least on par with sidious . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaxem Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 More excuses; fanboy behavior. I mentioned the source. Are you not paying attention? --- B/W Darth Bane is superior to Count Dooku that's what i thought and why i think zannah or bane should be 10 but like i said none of my opinions matter since i can't really comment one way or the other since I haven't read enough of the books to even really have a opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S_W_LeGenD Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 (edited) Were you not the guy who made that thread awhile ago that said that plagueis with his respirator would kill the sith emperor? I don't get all this hate for the sith emperor. If you take the time and read all the sources that Legend posted I think they clearly show that the Emperor was the 2nd strongest sith and as soon as Disney wipes out all the post ROTJ eu I think you can make the case the sith emperor is if not stronger at least on par with sidious . I have utterly debunked claims made in favor of Caedus in this thread thus far but the reaction of some fellow members is to ignore my revelations in return unfortunately. These are the type of fans who will vaguely say "Luke moved a black hole." They will try to portray Luke as a godlike being when reality is much different. In truth, the black hole in question here is nothing in comparison to the real ones. I will make a thread soon in which "power factor" of all characters will be constructively discussed and canonically analyzed. I personally attempt to verify claims made by fans in favor of characters to put things in proper perspective and debunk misrepresentation. that's what i thought and why i think zannah or bane should be 10 but like i said none of my opinions matter since i can't really comment one way or the other since I haven't read enough of the books to even really have a opinion I know a great deal about both and also Count Dooku and I can safely assert that these two are superior to Count. Edited July 28, 2013 by S_W_LeGenD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 (edited) More excuses; fanboy behavior.Legend I informed you how this I which to hold this debate, and it is not through one-sided, longwinded arguments. I gave you the opportunity to have this discussion in the proper format once the debate is concluded, but you refused to cooperate, and if all your going to do is resort to your usual immaturity and rudeness then consider it withdrawn. I'm sure with that attitude everyone will flock to your thread. EDIT: Again you are not doing yourself any favours, this kind of behavior, and your behavior in general is just going to lead to people rejecting your arguments out of principle no matter how valid they are. Edited July 28, 2013 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 that's what i thought and why i think zannah or bane should be 10 but like i said none of my opinions matter since i can't really comment one way or the other since I haven't read enough of the books to even really have a opinionWell after some thought I think that at least Bane could be a contender for #10. However I'm not sure about Zannah. I'm not sure if you've read the Bane Trilogy but Zannah does exactly come across as the more powerful, and her abilities matchup. She certainly has the trump card with Sith Magic... but in other areas she is somewhat lacking. But yeah, Bane vs Dooku is definitely something worth discussing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaxem Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Well after some thought I think that at least Bane could be a contender for #10. However I'm not sure about Zannah. I'm not sure if you've read the Bane Trilogy but Zannah does exactly come across as the more powerful, and her abilities matchup. She certainly has the trump card with Sith Magic... but in other areas she is somewhat lacking. But yeah, Bane vs Dooku is definitely something worth discussing. yeah i just barley finished reading it i only put Darth Zannah's name out there because of her sith magic but you are right her sith magic did give her a advantage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 yeah i just barley finished reading it i only put Darth Zannah's name out there because of her sith magic but you are right her sith magic did give her a advantageAnd she was empowered by the dark side energies of Lake Nath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 (edited) I mentioned the source. Are you not paying attention?This quote: "Luke could not defeat Lord Nyax in a duel even though he was already touted as the most powerful Jedi in history during this time." Is quite obviously from an out-of-universe perspective, so I find it incredibly hard to believe it was mentioned in the in-universe novel you quoted, which is written from an entirely different perspective. Trust me, I'm paying close attention. Edited July 28, 2013 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 This quote: "Luke could not defeat Lord Nyax in a duel even though he was already touted as the most powerful Jedi in history during this time." Is quite obviously from an out-of-universe perspective, so I find it incredibly hard to believe it was mentioned in the in-universe novel you quoted, which is written from an entirely different perspective. Trust me, I'm paying close attention. Shh. We want the Kaggath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 Were you not the guy who made that thread awhile ago that said that plagueis with his respirator would kill the sith emperor? I don't get all this hate for the sith emperor. If you take the time and read all the sources that Legend posted I think they clearly show that the Emperor was the 2nd strongest sith and as soon as Disney wipes out all the post ROTJ eu I think you can make the case the sith emperor is if not stronger at least on par with sidious .You'll find however that Legend conveniently chooses to ignore the most compelling argument in Caedus favour, the fact that Luke Skywalker feared that if not dealt with soon he would become more powerful than all of them i.e. Caedus had the potential to become more powerful than Luke Skywalker. Noting that Luke Skywalker has first hand experienced of Caedus' force potential and at the same age Luke defeated the Emperor in lightsaber combat and the Force albeit with the help of his untrained sister. All we can take from this is that Luke and Caedus are close in terms of power, which I feel is justification for his position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 You'll find however that Legend conveniently chooses to ignore the most compelling argument in Caedus favour, the fact that Luke Skywalker feared that if not dealt with soon he would become more powerful than all of them i.e. Caedus had the potential to become more powerful than Luke Skywalker. Noting that Luke Skywalker has first hand experienced of Caedus' force potential and at the same age Luke defeated the Emperor in lightsaber combat and the Force albeit with the help of his untrained sister. All we can take from this is that Luke and Caedus are close in terms of power, which I feel is justification for his position. Amen beni. Was number 10 decided on Tyrannus? he seemed like the sure fire in last I checked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 Amen beni. Was number 10 decided on Tyrannus? he seemed like the sure fire in last I checked.Well I'm starting to think Bane may be a better candidate, I mean just look at his feats in Alter: Could generate tremendous Force waves that could bring down entire buildings. Could generate Force lightning bearing traits of the Force storm with enough power to char opponents on contact and utterly destroy his supposedly indestructible orbalisk armour. When tapped in to the power of a dark side nexus he could generate a deadly death field of pure dark side energy that sucked the life out of anything that drew near. Albeit with the help of other lesser Sith Lords, Bane could unleash a huge storm of dark side energy that laid waste to an entire landscape. Had a great enough willpower to rip the information he required from Darth Anneddu's holocron. What has Dooku got against these? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 But given the point of his Rule of Two he has to be the weakest member of the Order of the Sith Lords otherwise his entire legacy had no point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 But given the point of his Rule of Two he has to be the weakest member of the Order of the Sith Lords otherwise his entire legacy had no point. which suggests the next one would be tenebron? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 which suggests the next one would be tenebron? Yes it has to be Darth Tenebrous if we choose anyone bound to the Rule of Two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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