Top 3 issues: Your opinion

[ArchangelLBC]

I don't wanna be rude but PVE is the least thing a Commando Healer should worry or complain about at this very moment. You're not far inferior to Sage or Scoundrel that the raidleader unfortunately refuses to bring you to the raid as a main healer. No. At least not on the european servers.

 

And the scoundrel has a 100% melee/ranged dodge which has a talent that reduces the cooldown when being attacked ASWELL as an absorb shield probe. Commandos has a tiny 25% damage reduction. I don't see why you're even questioning this. (I didn't say scoundrel had a 12s 50% DR ability though).

 

And for the AOE CC part, sure it may not be a vital part but again.

 

The Hold the Line talent that allows you to cast while running is ESSENTIAL.

 

The scoundrel 100% melee/ranged dodge thing works for 3 seconds and, of course, works on only melee and ranged damage. Reactive shield lasts for 12 seconds (longer I believe with set bonus), and Commando healers in PVP can spec into being uninterruptable for those 12 seconds.

 

You can't say that "scoundrels have these three abilities and that's what makes them so much better", when it isn't Dodge/Evasion that makes them so much better. If you didn't mean they had a 50% 12s DR cooldown you shouldn't have said they did.

 

When I read:

 

These three abilities are what makes scoundrels good. Give us the opportunity to be come as good as them.

 

I read three abilities as "cast on the move", "AoE CC", and "50% DR cooldown". Dodge/Evasion isn't nearly the same thing as a flat damage reduction for 8-10 GCDs.

 

Your HTL suggestion is very good, and I like it a lot. Your AoE mez suggestion is kinda unnecessary imo. Your dismissal of Commando Healing in PVE concerns is frankly incredibly short sighted of you. Especially since any real boosts in PVE almost, by their nature, can't help but boost your performance in PVP.

 

It's hard for a scoundrel NOT to go "out of energy."

 

A commando needs something what a Scoundrel has. Each crit tick of your beam should restore X amount of energy cells.

 

Sages? Well they don't even have a regenerating debuff if they go too low like scoundrels and commandos does. And scoundrels can regen fast ASWELL as having "Cool Head".

 

With all due respect to Bioware, I have no idea how they decided to design a Commando healer the way they did to scoundrels. It's just mindblowing.

 

Keep in mind they used to be considered underpowered compared to Commando and Sages. Then around 1.2 they got a very nice boost while Commando healers got nerfed into the ground (including a 4 fold nerf to Super Charged Cells if I recall right). That being said I agree with all of what you said here, and I would note that those changes would appear to be super useful in both aspects of the game =)

 

I don't post in this forum much, but I'd like to chime in and say that I'd like to see PvE DPS ammo management addressed. I main Gunnery and have full 72 CM gear for when I need to fill in a healing role in HM ops. I love CM to pieces and wish I could switch that to my main. I have no issues keeping up with healing or ammo in that spec.

 

I hurt continuously with Gunnery ammo management after 2.0 took away our free Hi Impact Bolt. It's so bad that I look forward to high movement fights just for the two extra seconds to hit max regen mode. My dps has suffered compared to what I was able to dish out non-min/maxed pre-2.0.

 

Am I playing wrong? I don't feel that way. I'm on par with other Gunnerys that ditched their Rakata armorings and I come here often looking for ammo management tips from the people who really know their stuff.

 

No that's a concern for pretty much all gunnery commandos.

 

someone made a thread recently saying that it was actually only 30% (and now i can't find it)

but i wanted to see for myself, so i did a lengthy parse today and fired 113 grav rounds, got 50 procs

 

50 / 113 = .4424 * 100 = 44.24%

 

 

my methodology was to just use GR > FA (to clean up the CoF buff if it proc'd. i did an earlier parse where i didn't do this at came up with like 24%. i suspect the OP of the previous thread i saw might have made a similar mistake)

anyway, then i waited for dummy to reset

start over (which takes about 10s for dummy to reset and start again)

 

then i counted the number of GRs fired and times i gained CoF

 

 

i will say thought that it certainly doesn't feel to me like they're in line with each other either. charged bolts definitely seems to proc ionic accelerator a lot more often than grav round procs curtain of fire, but i'm not sure why. curtain of fire seems to be working just fine, but i have a theory that maybe alacrity works against us in such a way that 5 GCDs after a CoF reset, it can't reset again because it's 5% just inside the window.

 

i am not entirely sure how to test it honestly, but i know for sure that CoF can proc 4 GCDs after it does initially. i wonder if it's just 'lucky' server lag.

i did a very lengthy parse where i would use GR until i got CoF, then used GR 4 more times afterwards, but the problem though is it's hard to tell by examining a parse because it doesn't tell you if you proc curtain of fire while curtain of fire is already up.

i think maybe i could tag each round with full auto; then i would just count the number of times i used full auto instead of counting the curtain of fire procs. idk, i'll take a look at it later. spent enough time sitting in front of a dummy today.

 

 

Actually my feeling is also that if there IS an issue, it's due to server lag so less grav rounds are actually able to proc because the ICD isn't quite finished. In this case our alacrity is actually hurting us. I would suggest after every proc you immediately use FA, then Hammershot, then Grav round. It used to be that that Grav Round would be able to proc CoF, but now maybe not.

 

Regardless that wouldn't stop the streakyness I think we're ALL seeing where you can go through an entire cooldown, sometimes even an entire 30 second relic buff, without once seeing a CoF proc. Regardless of whether or not CoF is behaving perfectly, having that happen is EXTREMELY detrimental to both our ammo management, our damage, and the overall fun of the spec.

[LordKantner]

Scoundrels have no mitigation abilities like we have with the armour buff on ADV probe and the 5% reduction from supercharged kolto bomb.

 

Add a buff to all the other heals from Kolto residue, its clear that even though we might not be doing as much straight heals as a scoundrel, we make up for it in damage prevented.

 

I also find in PvE commandos have the highest effective heals. Or at least the best ratio.

[Sammennn]

The scoundrel 100% melee/ranged dodge thing works for 3 seconds and, of course, works on only melee and ranged damage. Reactive shield lasts for 12 seconds (longer I believe with set bonus), and Commando healers in PVP can spec into being uninterruptable for those 12 seconds.

 

You're still ignoring the fact that a Scoundrel Healer's Dodge lowers its own cooldown when the scoundrel is being attacked (yes not at every attack but still has an effect). Gunnery has that option, but a healer doesn't. Makes no sense since a healer in PVP is the one taking more damage than a Ranged DPS.

 

You can't say that "scoundrels have these three abilities and that's what makes them so much better", when it isn't Dodge/Evasion that makes them so much better. If you didn't mean they had a 50% 12s DR cooldown you shouldn't have said they did.

 

I was talking about defensive cooldowns overall, think I wrote my post a bit poorly there. Commandos have their own ability while Scoundrel's on the other hand, excuse me for forgetting the third one, dodge, probe AND ROLLING.

 

Dodge/Evasion isn't nearly the same thing as a flat damage reduction for 8-10 GCDs.

 

25% Damage reduction for 12 seconds that includes immunity to interruption that has two minute cooldown isn't much to consider as a good ability.

 

The reason for this is that; if you're being targeted; you might have to LOS > if you move > you can't heal > if you stay in same position > you'll get raped . Either way, the commando dies.

 

Scoundrel can vanish or roll into safety while healing. The sage has force speed which gives a huge advantage to heal itself when it reaches around a pillar or around the wall.

 

Your HTL suggestion is very good, and I like it a lot. Your AoE mez suggestion is kinda unnecessary imo. Your dismissal of Commando Healing in PVE concerns is frankly incredibly short sighted of you. Especially since any real boosts in PVE almost, by their nature, can't help but boost your performance in PVP.

 

Again, I've only heard good of commandos in PVE. While on the other hand they're being demolished in PVP. It saddens me that one of the really good Mercenaries/Commandos on Tomb of Freedon Nadd is TOTALLY being stomped down these days. He's no chance anymore. Doesn't matter if you're talented or not. Ain't gonna boost your healing/survivability.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Sammennn

[ArchangelLBC]

You're still ignoring the fact that a Scoundrel Healer's Dodge lowers its own cooldown when the scoundrel is being attacked (yes not at every attack but still has an effect). Gunnery has that option, but a healer doesn't. Makes no sense since a healer in PVP is the one taking more damage than a Ranged DPS.

 

And you're ignoring the fact that a Scoundrel can dodge all he wants, he still will take full damage from that Smash. I won't argue with you that the shield talent is oddly placed. Hell for that matter gunnery commandos have been crying for the uninterruptable utility on it for forever. That's neither here nor there though when you're asking to double it's effectiveness.

 

I was talking about defensive cooldowns overall, think I wrote my post a bit poorly there. Commandos have their own ability while Scoundrel's on the other hand, excuse me for forgetting the third one, dodge, probe AND ROLLING.

 

Ok, but your beef with the shield vs what scoundrels has seems very misplaced then, and the roll is expensive energy wise and was more for DPS scoundrels to have a gap closer. Also neither Dodge nor Shield probe are as good as sustained defensive cooldowns as our Shield is.

 

 

25% Damage reduction for 12 seconds that includes immunity to interruption that has two minute cooldown isn't much to consider as a good ability.

 

The reason for this is that; if you're being targeted; you might have to LOS > if you move > you can't heal > if you stay in same position > you'll get raped . Either way, the commando dies.

 

Scoundrel can vanish or roll into safety while healing. The sage has force speed which gives a huge advantage to heal itself when it reaches around a pillar or around the wall.

 

25% damage reduction is excellent. If you're complaining about the long lockout, then that's a completely different issue, but it is entirely in keeping with similar abilities in the game. I'd complain more about Adrenaline Rush. Also from an uptime perspective, our shield is probably better overall than Dodge, and lets not forget that someone who uses dodge won't even get that smasher to bat an eye, whereas a fully resolved commando with their shield up might as well be unkillable for 12 seconds. Most smart melee will find a juicier target.

 

Again, I've only heard good of commandos in PVE. While on the other hand they're being demolished in PVP. It saddens me that one of the really good Mercenaries/Commandos on Tomb of Freedon Nadd is TOTALLY being stomped down these days. He's no chance anymore. Doesn't matter if you're talented or not. Ain't gonna boost your healing/survivability.

 

Commando healers in general are a rare enough breed, and I'm not saying their PVP shortcomings weren't more serious than their PVE shortcomings, but to say the other doesn't need addressing is, again, kind of short sighted, especially since not every commando healer PVPs as such any more than every commando PVEs.

[SpaniardInfinity]

You're still ignoring the fact that a Scoundrel Healer's Dodge lowers its own cooldown when the scoundrel is being attacked (yes not at every attack but still has an effect). Gunnery has that option, but a healer doesn't. Makes no sense since a healer in PVP is the one taking more damage than a Ranged DPS.

 

Like we were discussing in another thread, I think it could work if Reactive Shield's cooldown was lowered by 30 seconds globally or had its active cooldown reduced when taking damage. I think both of these are fair game. Its more balanced than turning it to a 50% damage reduction, especially because Combat Medics are already very powerful while shielded. There really is no reason you should die while your Reactive Shield is up unless you used it too late and/or the entire team is attacking you. In both situations, you should be dead anyway.

 

I was talking about defensive cooldowns overall, think I wrote my post a bit poorly there. Commandos have their own ability while Scoundrel's on the other hand, excuse me for forgetting the third one, dodge, probe AND ROLLING.

 

I'm aware that most of these forums will disagree with me, but Adrenaline Rush is a decent cooldown. Not the greatest thing ever, could still be improved (especially that damn cooldown), but its saved my life way more often than the old one did. Add to that Reactive Shield which I still argue is one of the strongest defensives the healers have and IMO justifies the long cooldown. Commandos also have Hold the Line which serves the same purpose. Remember that Scamper is subject to slows and doesn't get you very far in combat. Outside of combat is a different story and that is one of the things that needs to be changed about Scoundrels because its not balanced.

 

25% Damage reduction for 12 seconds that includes immunity to interruption that has two minute cooldown isn't much to consider as a good ability.

 

And 20% healing received with Med Zone. And 100% immunity to pushback. Pop a warzone adrenal and you now have 40% damage reduction. If you have Hold the Line running at the same time, you can only be interrupted with stuns. If you are at full resolve, you can only be stopped with raw damage and if you did everything right, that will be nearly impossible.

 

The reason for this is that; if you're being targeted; you might have to LOS > if you move > you can't heal > if you stay in same position > you'll get raped . Either way, the commando dies.

 

What do you mean when you are under pressure you "might" LOS. Do it. Get out of the line of fire. You deserve everything that happens to you if you don't.

 

When you are moving under pressure, Kolto Bomb is your best friend. Put a sticky note on your computer monitor if you have to -- that thing should ALWAYS be on cooldown. Bacta Infusion when its available. Refresh Trauma Probe if you can and Hammershot enemies. No, it does not do massive healing, but 2.5k heals on a double crit is better than running in the open like a dope without casting anything at all. If you have Tech Override, use it for an instant AMP or MP. Try spec'ing into Kolto Wave and getting some health everytime you knock melees away. Use Electro Net to keep them at bay. Use Hold the Line to run and avoid knockbacks and leaps. Cleanse DoTs whenever you can -- this can get rid of roots and slows so make sure to do this whenever you can. Don't forget it also is doing about 1k heals on a crit. Again, not mind-blowing, but its better than bending over and taking it. If you need health badly, stop for a second and cast your AMP and then move again. People will either interrupt it (and then you can go directly into a MP) or let it cast, both situations work for you. Everytime you get interrupted, move. If you are ever flatfooted when you are casting an instant ability, you better get those feet moving. Always keep moving and LOS as many of your attackers as possible. Only when you have broken LOS should you plant your feet and cast.

 

And that's not even considering the other 7 people on your team or your defensive cooldowns.

 

Scoundrel can vanish or roll into safety while healing. The sage has force speed which gives a huge advantage to heal itself when it reaches around a pillar or around the wall.

 

Hold the Line. No, you cannot just vanish like a Scoundrel, but you should be able to take the beating.

 

Again, I've only heard good of commandos in PVE. While on the other hand they're being demolished in PVP. It saddens me that one of the really good Mercenaries/Commandos on Tomb of Freedon Nadd is TOTALLY being stomped down these days. He's no chance anymore. Doesn't matter if you're talented or not. Ain't gonna boost your healing/survivability.

 

I hear mixed things about Commando in PVE. I know it can do the job, but it takes a lot more effort than bringing the others. If you're team is up for the challenge, then they can do it. Its usually the FOTMers that say the class isn't viable. The same can be said about PVP, in my opinion.

Edited July 29, 2013 by SpaniardInfinity

[oaceen]

Actually my feeling is also that if there IS an issue, it's due to server lag so less grav rounds are actually able to proc because the ICD isn't quite finished. In this case our alacrity is actually hurting us. I would suggest after every proc you immediately use FA, then Hammershot, then Grav round. It used to be that that Grav Round would be able to proc CoF, but now maybe not.

 

Regardless that wouldn't stop the streakyness I think we're ALL seeing where you can go through an entire cooldown, sometimes even an entire 30 second relic buff, without once seeing a CoF proc. Regardless of whether or not CoF is behaving perfectly, having that happen is EXTREMELY detrimental to both our ammo management, our damage, and the overall fun of the spec.

 

what i wanted to do was test 5% alacrity, then the 3% from cell, then 0% with cell toggled off

 

i'll try that rotation and post back later when/if i find out anything.