vermura Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) I would have thought the mere idea of having some guy use the same movement ability 4 times in a row (more if they use coolhead) would clearly lead to imbalance. I would have thought nothing like this would ever make it to live in any game that has PvP... but since it did... I only need just one example to show how obviously broken it is with no cooldown. Operative with ball in huttball, especially if healer, simply rolls through the fire at instant speed, takes **** all to no damage, which is easily recovered from hots and can then simply do it 3 more times, omg GOOOOOOAL. This happens, it will happen more and more and its not cool, or skilled, it's just lame. Aside from that though, there are a bazillion situations where giving a class the ability to suddenly be 50-60 metres away is obviously imbalanced. PvP is all about movement, and well, this ability sure is that. Now I know everyone hates this comparison, but, this roll move is quite similar to blink or shadow step in wow. For a very good reason, those abilities have a cooldown. So should this one. It should have a cooldown of at *LEAST* 15 seconds (same as force leap). In fact, it should be longer, but it should definitely have one. I would love the developer to come here and explain to everyone exactly why any class in the game should have the ability to move around like this. In other games, it'd be called speed hacks. Edited July 12, 2013 by vermura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raazmir Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Snare them and i think they only go half distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vermura Posted July 12, 2013 Author Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) Even if you did snare them, there dodge can remove it and they can stun and/or CC you. Irrespective, it still needs a cool down. As it is, I feel it's a case of if you cant beat em, join em. So, look for more fotm agents/smugglers coming out all over the place. I'll be doing the same. Edited July 12, 2013 by vermura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotAnyOldName Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 QQ about OP/Smug roll needs a CD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackrunip Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) If you plan to give it a cooldown of 15 seconds it needs to be at a range of 30 meters and not be affected by snare/slow. 15 seconds for a 12 meter roll is useless. Edited July 12, 2013 by jackrunip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSpiceSwag Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I would have thought the mere idea of having some guy use the same movement ability 4 times in a row (more if they use coolhead) would clearly lead to imbalance. I would have thought nothing like this would ever make it to live in any game that has PvP... but since it did... I only need just one example to show how obviously broken it is with no cooldown. Operative with ball in huttball, especially if healer, simply rolls through the fire at instant speed, takes **** all to no damage, which is easily recovered from hots and can then simply do it 3 more times, omg GOOOOOOAL. This happens, it will happen more and more and its not cool, or skilled, it's just lame. Aside from that though, there are a bazillion situations where giving a class the ability to suddenly be 50-60 metres away is obviously imbalanced. PvP is all about movement, and well, this ability sure is that. Now I know everyone hates this comparison, but, this roll move is quite similar to blink or shadow step in wow. For a very good reason, those abilities have a cooldown. So should this one. It should have a cooldown of at *LEAST* 15 seconds (same as force leap). In fact, it should be longer, but it should definitely have one. I would love the developer to come here and explain to everyone exactly why any class in the game should have the ability to move around like this. In other games, it'd be called speed hacks. the people who qq about the roll are the same people who think pts are fine and thought they were incredibly OP pre 2.0. you said the part that is big because you couldnt think of any more ways they are op, because there arent any in the first place. give me one REAL way the roll is op. your huttball example is pure bs, the only way an op can meander into the ez over a fire is if he is taking no damage at all and not getting attacked by anyone, and if that is the case most classes can get to the ez if nobody is touching them...and the part where you say they can easily recover any damage encountered from ball carrying by themselves (i assume that's what you meant) is laughable. give me one good reason why scoundrels/ops shouldnt be able to move faster than everyone else. nobody cared when sins and sorcs could do it, albeit it was to a lesser degree. ops, ESPECIALLY dps ops need the roll, and healing ops, while i do believe are slightly op compared to sages/mercs, are not op due to the roll AT ALL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankiejo Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 also in order for the roll to break snare you would have to roll concealment, and that's working as intended because the class is centered around hit and run tactics so they gave them greater mobility. They have to run away a lot because they don't have defensive CDs or passives, it's only fair they have the ability to dip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackrunip Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 also in order for the roll to break snare you would have to roll concealment, and that's working as intended because the class is centered around hit and run tactics so they gave them greater mobility. They have to run away a lot because they don't have defensive CDs or passives, it's only fair they have the ability to dip. I thought the only advantage that spec got was a lower cost for the roll and a chance to dodge. It's not a guaranteed cleanse atm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronniehenlau Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Now I know everyone hates this comparison, but, this roll move is quite similar to blink or shadow step in wow. For a very good reason, those abilities have a cooldown. So should this one. It should have a cooldown of at *LEAST* 15 seconds (same as force leap). In fact, it should be longer, but it should definitely have one. Shadowstep 100 yd range Instant Requires level 1 Step through the shadows and appear behind a target. Movement speed is increased by 70% for 2 sec afterwards. Scamper Instant Energy: 25 Roll forward 12 meters. When slowed, you only roll forward 6 meters. While rolling, your chance to dodge melee and ranged attacks is increased by 30%. Does not break stealth. Cannot be used while immobilized. Comparison seems legit. Aside from that, carrying huttball = snare = 6m roll = 24m for 100% of your energy. Tots worth it. Not like a sage/sin can run faster than that, or warriors can instantly leep that far, theoretically, juggs/guardians have 90m gap closer (charge->push->charge->intercede). But yeah, nerf dat 12/6m roll, tots OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthBloodloss Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 15 seconds would be a bit much IMO. Even 5 seconds is long enough that you couldn't really chain it to turbo around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BenitsubasaChiyo Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I absolutely agree with OP, Scamper needs cooldown... ....as soon as they make it a 30-40m roll that's guaranteed to break roots/slows/make us immune to any kind of cc etc etc etc then I'll gladly accept a 30-40 sec cd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomeJagoff Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 meh, doesn't need a cooldown, just make it so that it auto-drops the huttball when used....like the lolbubble and the phase walk. Same goes for sniper roll that already has a cooldown, should also auto-drop the ball/reset. Both abilities let you bypass firetraps/map design. Heck, to make things even, if they made force leap/force speed also drop the huttball automatically, it would definitely add an interesting dynamic to huttball and obviously require A Lot more teamwork. Right now in pugs, random solo queue jugg tanks can pretty much grab the ball and coast to the goal line (especially when switching to shien/leaping/back to soresu like people are still doing to keep unstoppable), sins can also still grab the ball and force speed through firetraps with shroud/deflection to the goal line. Probably not what the designers originally intended for huttball. Resetting the ball when activating those abilities would definitely require a ton more teamwork and penalize teams for not coordinating/getting in place for passes. If lolroll doesn't reset the ball, then the sin teleport/lolbubble shouldn't either, let's have even shorter even more 1 sided matches, with sorcs standing in firetraps with the ball waiting to force speed to the goal and with sins grabbing the ball and scoring in 1 second. Lolroll can be a prob in other maps with fast caps, but nodes can be capped back, so not a major problem. In huttball though, this is definitely a problem. Simplest fix: lolroll resets the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronniehenlau Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Lolroll can be a prob in other maps with fast caps, but nodes can be capped back, so not a major problem. In huttball though, this is definitely a problem. Simplest fix: lolroll resets the ball. I would have 0 issues with this. I do however believe that sniper/slingers rolls should reset to. Not because 'if you nerf me, nerf them', but because they dont suffer from the slow from carrying, meaning they can roll 18m (I think?) even with the ball. Now that's a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BraaxusKun Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 If operative roll gets a cooldown and is made to reset the ball when used, then make force charge and intercede reset the ball, and have a max range of 12 metres Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltimateKrucible Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 It's OP in Voidstar too - and that quote came from a scoundrel I played with who basically rolled us to an astoundingly fast victory. Once the first door goes it's impossible to catch lolroll unless you commit suicide. Surely not working as intended. Why is it even in the game? From a lore point of view its ridiculous. It moves faster then force speed, so non-force using classes actually have more powerful powers than force-using ones. Phase walk doesn't let you carry the ball, why should roll? And it does not mirror force leap, as that leaps you into danger - your target always has the chance to stun, root or knock you back. Roll bypasses everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunayson Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Scamper: Snares no longer affect it (roots do however) 12 meters 4.5 second cooldown 15 energy cost Currently: The ability to use it in combat as a gap closer is difficult (and continue fighting), due to its high energy cost. But, we usually won't have a need to spam it if it is truly just a gap closer. Afterwards: The cooldown will not affect (imo) it's intended use as a gap closer, and will stahp this QQ. The lowered energy cost will help resource management when it's actually used as a one time gap closer. I'd legitimately prefer the roll this way. Even still, using it every 4.5 seconds still gets us the ball first, but it's not insanely fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truami Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 It's OP in Voidstar too - and that quote came from a scoundrel I played with who basically rolled us to an astoundingly fast victory. Once the first door goes it's impossible to catch lolroll unless you commit suicide. Surely not working as intended. Why is it even in the game? From a lore point of view its ridiculous. It moves faster then force speed, so non-force using classes actually have more powerful powers than force-using ones. Phase walk doesn't let you carry the ball, why should roll? And it does not mirror force leap, as that leaps you into danger - your target always has the chance to stun, root or knock you back. Roll bypasses everything. You have to use all of your energy to make it to the controls before anyone. Imo it is only op during he 30-54 warones mainly due to ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Beers Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Roll is annoying to people who don't think as a team. If an Op rolls all over the place 4 or 5 times, he used all his energy and probably a CD or 2. He got away from you but he likely won't get away from the next guy. It can be extremely frustrating to try and fight an Op on my Merc though as our slow is tied to Unload. It's pretty tricky to get him with that if he is trying to LoS you. But on my Shadow I decided to trade off Nerve Wracking for the reduced CD and increased duration of Force Slow. Ops just roll in place now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltimateKrucible Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 You have to use all of your energy to make it to the controls before anyone. Imo it is only op during he 30-54 warones mainly due to ignorance. Why do you need energy to cap a door? You don't - it's just rinse and repeat for an easy win of the opposition aren't paying attention. As I say, it was the smug himself who said it after rolling right through the whole WZ. Also - it's only OP during 30-54? An OP skill that's OP some of the time is still ... OP, I think. It needs a rethink - it's just a bad design. I agree with those who say its a speedhack - what's the difference, after all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smuglebunny Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Shadow/Assassin= Phase walk: move 60m instantly....AND FORCE SPEED TOO! Sent/mara= 30m instant jump roots target and interrupts and does damage Jugg/guard= 2 30m leaps friendly and enemy, with various effects, and a reset. potential 90m movement in 4.5sec. Van/PT= talented 30m leap Sage/sorc= force speed merc/commando= doesn't get squat 30% speed increase pfft. Sniper/GS= 1 roll with a cooldown meh. OP/Scoundrel= 12m roll/6m when slowed. Can use ALL your energy to move 24-48m in 6+ seconds. Then you are helpless. So... Not Over Powered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunayson Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Also - it's only OP during 30-54? An OP skill that's OP some of the time is still ... OP, I think. saber ward is op while its active Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RougeBeaver Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 When there's an operative in your WZ, you can expect fast movement and early caps. There's nothing wrong with this. Maybe instead of whining you ought to be looking for an operative to put in your group. The standard has changed. Stop crying and simpering about it. Adapt to it. Learn from it. Empower yourself with the knowledge of how to fight it, rather than waste time on a forum crying about it. Better just get used to it, children. The roll is here to stay. If it is to be nerfed, then so do Charge and Force Speed. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltimateKrucible Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 (edited) Shadow/Assassin= Phase walk: move 60m instantly....AND FORCE SPEED TOO!. You drop the ball when you use Phase walk.... It's also buggy, on a timer - and totally situational. You basically have to drop a marker and hope that the tide of battle needs you to be in that location during the next minute and a half. Then it goes on .... COOLDOWN for 30 secs whether its used or not. The point is - it's a good power, but has limits and can't be spammed. Force Speed - which is slower than scamper and covers less ground- is also on a cooldown. Do you see the pattern here? Edited July 12, 2013 by UltimateKrucible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skylancewalker Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 Lol love all the Ops/Smugglers come in here to defend their adv. class its so cute. Your time at OPness will come and go like all the others. Enjoy your awesome heals while they last Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morde_ Posted July 12, 2013 Share Posted July 12, 2013 I would happily trade my roll with the sniper roll. Please Bioware, let me trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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