Sab/Eng Roll is OP

[Jakev-]

Wall bangs should stay because lols, jump canceling roll needs to go imo

 

IMO It shouldnt stay, because its design is to be a defensive ability... People are using it offensively and killing people instantly

 

For Example.

 

In a rated match in civil war (True story)

 

Both Team A and Team B send 2 middle 4 Snow and 2 Grass

 

At middle the fight is Team A - Juggernaut tank and a Sorcerer healer for an attempt to turtle the middle node

Team B Guardian tank and a Saboteur Gunslinger

 

The Juggernaut and the sorcerer should be able to turtle the two at mid and will eventually kill them.

 

Instead, Team B's Guardian tank pushes team A's sorcerer into a wall and the Gunslinger Rolls on the sorcerer. The sorcerer pops Force barrier so the gunslinger wastes his first wallbang

 

But they do it again in the next minute without the sorcerer having barrier. The sorcerer is instantly killed through guard and the juggernaut is flashbanged/awed and unable to stop the gunslinger from capping. This results in team B getting the first cap.. which in rateds 9/10 times the game is already decided.

 

The same thing happens multiple times in the match insta killing people while the grass node goes uncapped...

[Zunayson]

IMO It shouldnt stay, because its design is to be a defensive ability... People are using it offensively and killing people instantly

 

For Example.

 

In a rated match in civil war (True story)

 

Both Team A and Team B send 2 middle 4 Snow and 2 Grass

 

At middle the fight is Team A - Juggernaut tank and a Sorcerer healer for an attempt to turtle the middle node

Team B Guardian tank and a Saboteur Gunslinger

 

The Juggernaut and the sorcerer should be able to turtle the two at mid and will eventually kill them.

 

Instead, Team B's Guardian tank pushes team A's sorcerer into a wall and the Gunslinger Rolls on the sorcerer. The sorcerer pops Force barrier so the gunslinger wastes his first wallbang

 

But they do it again in the next minute without the sorcerer having barrier. The sorcerer is instantly killed through guard and the juggernaut is flashbanged/awed and unable to stop the gunslinger from capping. This results in team B getting the first cap.. which in rateds 9/10 times the game is already decided.

 

The same thing happens multiple times in the match insta killing people while the grass node goes uncapped...

 

It has bombs and for lethality it has a dot.

 

Yeah. Not offensively meant.

 

It's meant offensively and defensively.

[maverickmatt]

IMO It shouldnt stay, because its design is to be a defensive ability... People are using it offensively and killing people instantly

 

For Example.

 

In a rated match in civil war (True story)

 

Both Team A and Team B send 2 middle 4 Snow and 2 Grass

 

At middle the fight is Team A - Juggernaut tank and a Sorcerer healer for an attempt to turtle the middle node

Team B Guardian tank and a Saboteur Gunslinger

 

The Juggernaut and the sorcerer should be able to turtle the two at mid and will eventually kill them.

 

Instead, Team B's Guardian tank pushes team A's sorcerer into a wall and the Gunslinger Rolls on the sorcerer. The sorcerer pops Force barrier so the gunslinger wastes his first wallbang

 

But they do it again in the next minute without the sorcerer having barrier. The sorcerer is instantly killed through guard and the juggernaut is flashbanged/awed and unable to stop the gunslinger from capping. This results in team B getting the first cap.. which in rateds 9/10 times the game is already decided.

 

The same thing happens multiple times in the match insta killing people while the grass node goes uncapped...

 

See... My only problem with this is that your main focus has been on it's impact in Ranked matches (which account for likely less than 5% of matches played).

 

What about it's impact on regs? I'd say it's much worse, especially considering how Ranked teams play regs like a playground (you know.. a place to have fun?).

 

So what I gather is that it's a problem for Ranked, but in Regs it's all fun and games?

 

A bug is a bug and should be treated as such, in Ranked OR Regs.

 

 

 

Other than that, I still commend you for posting Video evidence.

Edited July 13, 2013 by maverickmatt

[CBRGhostRider]

I cringe every time I see an engineering sniper, which fortunately isn't very often at all. I've played this spec, and prefer it vastly over MM or lethality.

 

Not only can you drop those bombs in place, but you can hit EMP discharge and do another roll immediately since it resets the cooldown on the roll. Of course, it also resets the cooldown on entrench, so you can entrench after your previous entrench ends as well. PP also has no downtime essentially... 18 sec duration, and 18 sec cooldown, so it can be always up. And SoS w/ cluster bombs on EP is like 50-60% health gone quick, though at least that is single target!

 

We are really lucky most people roll MM or lethality. Sooner or later they are going to switch to engineering and the sniper QQ will rise to a whole new level.

[Jakev-]

See... My only problem with this is that your main focus has been on it's impact in Ranked matches (which account for likely less than 5% of matches played).

 

What about it's impact on regs? I'd say it's much worse, especially considering how Ranked teams play regs like a playground (you know.. a place to have fun?).

 

So what I gather is that it's a problem for Ranked, but in Regs it's all fun and games?

 

A bug is a bug and should be treated as such, in Ranked OR Regs.

 

Other than that, I still commend you for posting Video evidence, even if you DID use it against me 6 times in a HG today.

 

My focus is on ranked matches because that is where I find enjoyment on this game. Also Because if people using this exploit on you and getting wins off that in a competitive situation is retarded especially when your team is out killing the other team without using the exploit.

 

Ranked matches are a completely different environment than regs.

 

Of course fixing this for ranked would fix it for regs though, so I don't see the point in arguing this.

 

Also I don't play my sniper at all anymore and have never used this in a warzone.. was probably someone else trying it out I can't tell people what to do in regs =/

[Ryvirath]

It's 12k damage at a single point. It's also very very specific to a tiny location and you can't always control whether you move .2,.5,1, or 2 meters. As far as I can tell the active detonating range is a one meter radius. I don't think it's WAI, but it's hardly game breaking. I mean take a look at the linked youtube video on that marauder without any CDs up. Explosive probe and clusterbombs hit for 15k. An MM EP+Ambush+follow-through would do roughly 20k if they all crit. This isn't some unstoppable combo. Still should be fixed because jump cancelling is a stupid interaction to promote.

[Skolops]

It's 12k damage at a single point. It's also very very specific to a tiny location and you can't always control whether you move .2,.5,1, or 2 meters. As far as I can tell the active detonating range is a one meter radius. I don't think it's WAI, but it's hardly game breaking. I mean take a look at the linked youtube video on that marauder without any CDs up. Explosive probe and clusterbombs hit for 15k. An MM EP+Ambush+follow-through would do roughly 20k if they all crit. This isn't some unstoppable combo. Still should be fixed because jump cancelling is a stupid interaction to promote.

 

It's unstoppable enough that even in the highly coordinated realm of ranked warzones we are starting to see teams relying on it as a central point of DPS.

[maverickmatt]

My focus is on ranked matches because that is where I find enjoyment on this game. Also Because if people using this exploit on you and getting wins off that in a competitive situation is retarded especially when your team is out killing the other team without using the exploit.

 

Ranked matches are a completely different environment than regs.

 

Of course fixing this for ranked would fix it for regs though, so I don't see the point in arguing this.

 

Also I don't play my sniper at all anymore and have never used this in a warzone.. was probably someone else trying it out I can't tell people what to do in regs =/

 

Touche sir, I didn't realize you weren't that Computer Hardware guy. At any rate, my original post is edited to reflect as much. My sincere apologies.

[DkSharktooth]

Touche sir, I didn't realize you weren't that Computer Hardware guy. At any rate, my original post is edited to reflect as much. My sincere apologies.

 

Hai, Logitek here, "that computer hardware guy", Bang Bang Baby

[maverickmatt]

Hai, Logitek here, "that computer hardware guy", Bang Bang Baby

 

Well HAI.

 

Nothing personal, but since we were pointing out the bug/'sploit, I thought I might bring light to the fact that it's used in regs by the same people who called attention to it for screwing with Rated.

 

Pot and Kettle, you know?

 

 

Interestingly enough.... the usage of this has skyrocketed in the past day or so, no doubt because word of the bug/'sploit (as with all the other bugs we've run across) has permeated General Chat. It's to the point now that it feels like if you AREN'T doing it, your team is disadvantaged and that's a bit sad.

Edited July 13, 2013 by maverickmatt

[Zunayson]

Well HAI.

 

Nothing personal, but since we were pointing out the bug/'sploit, I thought I might bring light to the fact that it's used in regs by the same people who called attention to it for screwing with Rated.

 

Pot and Kettle, you know?

 

 

Interestingly enough.... the usage of this has skyrocketed in the past day or so, no doubt because word of the bug/'sploit (as with all the other bugs we've run across) has permeated General Chat. It's to the point now that it feels like if you AREN'T doing it, your team is disadvantaged and that's a bit sad.

 

Yeah someone was in gen chat today talking about clicking wall bangers.

 

I no longer feel like a speshul snowflake for playing engie D:

[TalonKorr]

For Example.

 

In a rated match in civil war (True story)

 

Both Team A and Team B send 2 middle 4 Snow and 2 Grass

 

At middle the fight is Team A - Juggernaut tank and a Sorcerer healer for an attempt to turtle the middle node

Team B Guardian tank and a Saboteur Gunslinger

 

The Juggernaut and the sorcerer should be able to turtle the two at mid and will eventually kill them.

 

Instead, Team B's Guardian tank pushes team A's sorcerer into a wall and the Gunslinger Rolls on the sorcerer. The sorcerer pops Force barrier so the gunslinger wastes his first wallbang

 

But they do it again in the next minute without the sorcerer having barrier. The sorcerer is instantly killed through guard and the juggernaut is flashbanged/awed and unable to stop the gunslinger from capping. This results in team B getting the first cap.. which in rateds 9/10 times the game is already decided.

 

The same thing happens multiple times in the match insta killing people while the grass node goes uncapped...

 

http://i.imgur.com/zBPt8KU.gif

[Jakev-]

http://i.imgur.com/zBPt8KU.gif

 

http://gifb.in/h1BV

[TalonKorr]

http://gifb.in/h1BV

 

http://i.imgur.com/v5VGx1p.gif

[mtanios]

Isn't this bug fixed yet? I've tried it myself and it doesn't work for me.

 

I tried it on fleet tho not in a WZ

[MotorCityMan]

It's 12k damage at a single point.

 

Wow, a little more than 10k smash AoE dmg.

Edited July 13, 2013 by MotorCityMan

[JP_Legatus]

It was going to come out eventually regardless, since the moment someone found themselves on the receiving end of one of these they would immediately come to these forums. I've been talking about this for weeks but I haven't seen it done in a warzone yet.

 

In any case, when I was in the warzones the tooltip on my cluster bomb said 1700, so thats 17k damage in 2 rolls without crits. My sniper has no relics at all and is wearing leveling greens. Real pvp gear would make it higher, and armor lowers it a bit, but 2 snipers coordinating this will in all likelihood kill anyone instantly.

 

I've also heard that plasma probe (weaker aoe dot similar to orbital that lasts 18s) can be placed on a node and prevent caps passively for 18s (I heard on novarre, but it would work just fine in civil war or voidstar as well if that's the case). I haven't tried it, but I'd imagine it continues to exist after you die, meaning that as long as the sniper is alive nobody will ever cap a node he exists on, and for a long period after he's gone the objective remains uncappable if the timing is bad.

 

I've been talking about engineering for weeks, just never bothered using my sniper cuz I think he's boring. I'm not at all surprised about this kind of stuff though since a dev plays a sniper.

Edited July 13, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[So-low]

I've also heard that plasma probe (weaker aoe dot similar to orbital that lasts 18s) can be placed on a node and prevent caps passively for 18s (I heard on novarre, but it would work just fine in civil war or voidstar as well if that's the case). I haven't tried it, but I'd imagine it continues to exist after you die, meaning that as long as the sniper is alive nobody will ever cap a node he exists on, and for a long period after he's gone the objective remains uncappable if the timing is bad.

 

Plasma probe/Incendiary grenade goes away after you die. In order to perpetually stop caps the sniper/slinger must stay alive. Also the AoE effect of it is not quite large enough to block the whole cap area in NC.

[JP_Legatus]

Plasma probe/Incendiary grenade goes away after you die. In order to perpetually stop caps the sniper/slinger must stay alive. Also the AoE effect of it is not quite large enough to block the whole cap area in NC.

 

Does it cover the corners of the bunker? As long as it covers the corners of the bunker it's usually good. Most of the caps I've seen in NC rateds were marauder/operative corner caps after stealthing and the rest are pretty much team wipes in which the dead team was going to lose regardless of what they did. Though I don't know if the new invisible walls in the bunker have put an end to that kind of stuff in rated play.

Edited July 13, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[Jakev-]

http://i.imgur.com/v5VGx1p.gif

 

Someone Figured out the story

Edited July 13, 2013 by Jakev-

[Luckeyduckey]

Wow, a little more than 10k smash AoE dmg.

 

We can do it twice. And we have other ****. Sothar.

[JP_Legatus]

Copy And Paste of my post from Bug Reports section: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=659504

 

So.. There seems to be an Unintended Bug/exploit here with the engineering sniper roll. I had my friend record and Highlight it.

 

In this First clip, this is the easiest to do and could happen frequently in a warzone.

 

You get knocked back into a wall by the sniper getting rooted there.

 

Then the sniper sets up his Interrigation probe, Explosive probe, Plasma probe (Top Tier Talent), walks up to you does one roll which drops all his scatterbombs, EMP Discharges and rolls on you again dropping more scatterbombs. Results in basically an Insta-kill.

 

Wallbang:

http://www.twitch.tv/skillxx/c/2553066

 

In The Second Clip the sniper can Jump and Roll in place on you dropping all his scatterbombs with correct timing with about a 50/50 chance of success. (Sorry about a little mumble chatter in there )

 

Rollbang:

http://www.twitch.tv/skillxx/c/2553075

 

Looks like he did 17k with two rolls which is pretty much what I expected it to be, and it looks like he had some bad luck with crits on the 2nd one.

So yeah 2 snipers doing this is instagib

[maverickmatt]

Looks like he did 17k with two rolls which is pretty much what I expected it to be, and it looks like he had some bad luck with crits on the 2nd one.

So yeah 2 snipers doing this is instagib

 

And still we wonder why so many people quit matches. Nobody wants to play with 'sploiters.

[So-low]

Does it cover the corners of the bunker? As long as it covers the corners of the bunker it's usually good. Most of the caps I've seen in NC rateds were marauder/operative corner caps after stealthing and the rest are pretty much team wipes in which the dead team was going to lose regardless of what they did. Though I don't know if the new invisible walls in the bunker have put an end to that kind of stuff in rated play.

 

It covers the corners of the bunker if you place *** inside the node building. Teams can still do the mez-capping outside though. Having 2 Eng snipers would cover almost the entire cap area.

 

And still we wonder why so many people quit matches. Nobody wants to play with 'sploiters.

 

Rolling into a wall like in the first video isn't an exploit. If you are fighting next to a wall vs a Eng sniper you deserve to eat their bombs. Also I wouldn't really call rolling in place an "exploit", but rather just using stupid game mechanics. Kind of like corner capping in NC before the fix.

Edited July 14, 2013 by So-low

[TheCourier-]

Rolling into a wall like in the first video isn't an exploit. If you are fighting next to a wall vs a Eng sniper you deserve to eat their bombs. Also I wouldn't really call rolling in place an "exploit", but rather just using stupid game mechanics. Kind of like corner capping in NC before the fix.

 

I consider the rolling against a wall to drop all of the bombs an exploit, because their is literally almost no way whatsoever that a melee (even operatives, which are supposed to be strong against snipers) can kill a saboteur gunslinger. Saboteur gunslinger cannot continue to exist as the only literally unkillable class of SWTOR.

 

The argument "well have a ranged DPS kill the saboteur gunslinger" does not work. Gunslinger does more DPS than both of the other two ranged DPS classes, and has interrupt immunity.