Sentinel Class Representative

[JediMasterSLC]

-There are many who think the specs are balanced, and that there is just a time and a place for each. Others weigh them poorly due to playskill difference, and not actually an unbiased assessment.

-Balancing with the other 7 ACs would mean nerf in multiple cases. You also can't compare some of the ACs in terms of balance well. Some people feel the balance is just fine, some don't.

-My mom says I'm good at PvP. Does that mean I'm good at PvP? Post theorycrafting with results, don't just say you do. This is more congruent with the other guy who said "The best theorycrafters don't post here" which got shot to hell by the people who said "because they're afraid of critique?" Not saying you're being bad, just saying when you say that, people laugh.

 

PVP is not a static contest like PvE. Bleeds can have a place in PvP, but only really to mitigate heals on a wide multiple target scale (example: Madness/Balance sorcs). And even then, they're not an optimal choice save in certain groupstyle setups. This isn't just this game either - every MMO I've played with decent PvP that isn't an afterthought to the designers is this way.

 

You want to lock down your enemy, make them waste CDs, and kill them asap and force them to have to comeback and makeup lost ground. A dead enemy doesn't do damage. A healer who isn't there isn't healing.

 

You can't cleanse damage already taken, but you can cleanse DoTs. You can't prepare for damage already done, but you can prepare for damage you know is incoming. Fights are not long enough vs one enemy for bleeds to be worth it - nor would you really want them to be that long. Bleeds are just a bad choice.

 

This also goes back to my remarks on people truly knowing the class - people post 700-1m+ screenshots of anni/watchman damage and think that's good. I realize large damage looks great to scrubs, and it does net you coms (Just call it awesome com farming, its okay to say that). But in the grand, actual make for a win scheme of things it's a laughingstock. It's like the people that don't realize that player who just stalled 6 people for over 60 seconds on their way from east to south so you could retake south gave you that win, not the healer or dps with 800k+. But most scrubs don't understand that.

 

Furthermore, healing is really overpowered in PvP in this game. You would have to GREATLY increase Watchman's damage to actually meet the effectiveness of the other two specs in terms of being able to outdo heal intake vs damage intake in a 10-30 second fight. This would create a really redonkulous problem of holy crap too much DPS in PvE if they did so.

 

Burst, Amp, Spike AoEs, Defensives, anti-ccs, and CCs. It's what matters in PvP in every game. I've never once seen bleeds matter or be good.

 

I wasn't giving a nomination speech, I was busy and just wanted to write something quick. When I said that I enjoy theorycrafting, I wasn't trying to boost my epeen/credibility, I was just writing a tiny bit about myself.

 

I disagree with the that idea dot specs shouldn't have a place in competitive pvp. The game is more fun when players can play their favorite specs in the arena of their choice. The 24 specs in this game will never be perfectly balanced in both PvE and PvP, but I see no reason why trying to get as close to balance as possible is a bad thing. Dot based specs aren't currently in a good state in PvP, but that doesn't mean that "Bleeds are just a bad choice" in general. In PvP, full balance sage/madness sorcs used to be superior to full TK/lightning. Watchman/anni was arguably the best spec for the first couple months of the game. Assault vanguards/pyrotechs used to be great. And DF GGs/lethality snipers are a decent choice in ranked, though not as much anymore. The point is, specs that are centered about dots aren't inherently inferior in PvP.

 

You would not "have to GREATLY increase Watchman's damage"- making it too OP in PvE- to bring it up to par in PvP. You can buff a class in PvP without increasing raw damage output and PvE DPS, whether by providing some kind of check against dot cleansing, more utility, etc. Watchman does not need to be given as much burst as combat or focus in order to achieve a solid place.

 

Also, several abilities in this game have different values in PvE and PvP. Taunts, stealth saps, pacify/obfuscate and GS/sniper's diversion don't work on ops bosses... these abilities have different uses and cc duration values. If a spec is doing well in pve but not pve, or vice versa, abilities could be tweaked to give different values/utility between the two. I've been lead to believe that the 1.5 self-healing nerf was implemented because watchman/annis were too easy to keep up in PvE- not for PvP reasons (it was already the weakest of the 3 specs in PvP as of 1.4). I'm obviously not saying that reverting the 1.5 nerf would restore watchman/anni to it's former glory, but theoretically the Merciless Zeal/Hungering talent could be tweaked so that the tooltip read "critical hits with burn effects heal you for 1% of your maximum health. This value is doubled when used on player targets". Not saying they should do that, I'm simply giving an example for how to balance PvP and PvE at the same time.

Edited July 11, 2013 by JediMasterSLC

[Aroewarrior]

I nominate JediMasterSLC

 

+1 Definitely a guy who knows what's up when it comes to sentinels.

[Assillius]

Tman_AC definitly. He is German, Germans know everything Edited July 11, 2013 by Assillius

[Wanjagenrich]

I have valor 88, 79, and 69 (!) right now on three toons. I've been playing since April. I'm sure I have a rated score but I never checked once I got past 10 wins (Because I don't care...but now I'm curious). I've also done a ton of 55hms on all three toons, and a few HM Ops on the healer and tank.

 

Show me Krunchy being awesome. Anywhere. At anything. I'd take the PvE-Hero-Theorycrafters over a nobody any day. Show me the money, put your money where your mouth is, put up or shut up, etc. Right now you guys look like a bunch of fanbois running at the mouth insulting PvErs. It makes the PvP people look like idiots, and since I'm mostly a PvPer - stop it.

 

yusomad?

 

and grats on doing those 55 hms, I'm still struggling with those; wish i were as #Boss as you

[Maelael]

Pretty much OT, so again spoilered.

 

 

I wasn't giving a nomination speech, I was busy and just wanted to write something quick. When I said that I enjoy theorycrafting, I wasn't trying to boost my epeen/credibility, I was just writing a tiny bit about myself.

 

No worries. Just impressions are just that - impressions. I think you've got a good head on your shoulders, which is why I spoke up.

 

I disagree with the that idea dot specs shouldn't have a place in competitive pvp. The game is more fun when players can play their favorite specs in the arena of their choice.

 

I stopped right here in shock. Then I read some more. But there is a fundamental:

 

You can't make everything, including snowflake hybrid builds viable.

 

Combat is way better for huttball. Respecing to heal/tank for heal/tank classes and then to DD is always going to be more viable in Voidstar. Can you still use your snowflake, DoT, or stay heal/tank or whatever? Sure. It's just not optimal.

 

I think you could tweak the "vs players" stuff, and it would make DoTs more powerful, but it would still be suboptimal unless they got really gross and overpowered, which would create a different problem. There would have to be a serious balance found in 1-30 second windows between all three specs. Preferred? 10 second windows. And honestly? I don't trust BW to be able to do so well with the incompetence they've shown since April.

 

It's similar to trying to change the trinity rule. Nobody has successfully done it, as nobody has sucessfully made bleeds work well in a real PvP environment. You'd be a fool to want damage that can be cleared off before it happens, and happens over a deal of time, instead of damage that happens then and there. Do you still beat on people with force barrier up? No. Why would you apply damage that is going to be gone with a purify skill? Add in the PvP healing problem and DoTs are even worse.

 

It's a bad choice. You can make bad choices, and they should be available. If everyone wins and nobody loses, there is no meaning.

 

It's kinda okay for a class to have multiple viable specs that fit specific situations. That's actually kinda cool, as you SHOULD have to learn all three to be good everywhere. Do I play watchman/anni in PvP? Hell no. Do I play Focus/Rage in PvE? Hell no. Do I play Combat all the time in either? Hell no. It's really ignorant to expect all the specs to be optimal everywhere and even more ignorant to learn and play only one spec.

 

Edited July 11, 2013 by Maelael

[Maelael]

yusomad?

 

and grats on doing those 55 hms, I'm still struggling with those; wish i were as #Boss as you

 

Awwww the little girl can't answer.

 

Seriously? Can anyone show us Krunchy isn't a nobody?

Edited July 11, 2013 by Maelael

[Wolfmane]

I nominate tman_ac

 

I feel privileged to be able to play beside him every week. Ever since he joined our team I knew he was very knowledgeable of his class and all its specs and has always tried to assist not only his classmates but virtually anyone he has sensed in need of help.

 

The Force is indeed strong in that one.

[Avicii]

Just to reiterate a good player doesnt always make the best class rep. If they are players that belittle other players or insult the game and the staff of the game how can you expect BW to take them seriously? Or someone that talks down to others on the forums, do you really think they will take into consideration every ones concerns to get to the top 3 issues to bring forth?

 

This should be someone you trust to rep the class as a whole and act maturely in deciding what questions to ask and gathering the info from class players. Look at who is active and who contributes to the forums for the class and is willing to help others going out of their way to assist because they love the game and the class. By doing a quick post check you can tell whom is a good fit and who isn't.

 

IMHO this is what I am hoping for when the poll goes up. Good luck to all the noms hopefully whomever is selected will actually put the class and players agenda above their own personal one.

[KrunchyMedia]

I have valor 88, 79, and 69 (!) right now on three toons. I've been playing since April. I'm sure I have a rated score but I never checked once I got past 10 wins (Because I don't care...but now I'm curious). I've also done a ton of 55hms on all three toons, and a few HM Ops on the healer and tank.

 

Show me Krunchy being awesome. Anywhere. At anything. I'd take the PvE-Hero-Theorycrafters over a nobody any day. Show me the money, put your money where your mouth is, put up or shut up, etc. Right now you guys look like a bunch of fanbois running at the mouth insulting PvErs. It makes the PvP people look like idiots, and since I'm mostly a PvPer - stop it.

 

I'm not really sure who you are, and I don't know why you're blindly attempting to make somebody that you don't know anything about look bad, but if you would like to watch my stream, feel free to do so. I have been streaming ranked warzones about every night since transfers came out (not lately since internet has been having issues.) Please note that I don't stream myself when I run PvE progression due to the lack of interest from my viewers. I have two channels. I'm also not one to judge other people based on their valor ranks, because from my experience from doing ranked warzones (been doing them since ranked was released) valor rank isn't an indicator of skill level.

 

http://www.twitch.tv/mediaswtor

http://www.twitch.tv/mediaa

 

Thanks for watching.

Edited July 11, 2013 by KrunchyMedia

[JediMasterSLC]

Pretty much OT, so again spoilered.

 

 

 

 

No worries. Just impressions are just that - impressions. I think you've got a good head on your shoulders, which is why I spoke up.

 

 

 

I stopped right here in shock. Then I read some more. But there is a fundamental:

 

You can't make everything, including snowflake hybrid builds viable.

 

Combat is way better for huttball. Respecing to heal/tank for heal/tank classes and then to DD is always going to be more viable in Voidstar. Can you still use your snowflake, DoT, or stay heal/tank or whatever? Sure. It's just not optimal.

 

I think you could tweak the "vs players" stuff, and it would make DoTs more powerful, but it would still be suboptimal unless they got really gross and overpowered, which would create a different problem. There would have to be a serious balance found in 1-30 second windows between all three specs. Preferred? 10 second windows. And honestly? I don't trust BW to be able to do so well with the incompetence they've shown since April.

 

It's similar to trying to change the trinity rule. Nobody has successfully done it, as nobody has sucessfully made bleeds work well in a real PvP environment. You'd be a fool to want damage that can be cleared off before it happens, and happens over a deal of time, instead of damage that happens then and there. Do you still beat on people with force barrier up? No. Why would you apply damage that is going to be gone with a purify skill? Add in the PvP healing problem and DoTs are even worse.

 

It's a bad choice. You can make bad choices, and they should be available. If everyone wins and nobody loses, there is no meaning.

 

It's kinda okay for a class to have multiple viable specs that fit specific situations. That's actually kinda cool, as you SHOULD have to learn all three to be good everywhere. Do I play watchman/anni in PvP? Hell no. Do I play Focus/Rage in PvE? Hell no. Do I play Combat all the time in either? Hell no. It's really ignorant to expect all the specs to be optimal everywhere and even more ignorant to learn and play only one spec.

 

I don't "expect all the specs to be optimal everywhere", but I do think every skill tree should have a place in PvP, even if only in one of two of the maps, and I think BW does too. I enjoy all 3 sentinel specs, and can adjust just fine to balance changes, but I think the idea that "this is the skill tree you should use in a PvE environment, and that tree is the one you should use in PvP" is flawed. We can do better- BW can do better.

 

You agree that dot specs are currently underpowered, and then say that they shouldn't be buffed too much because then they would be OP. What about buffing them, just not too much?........I don't think it would be terribly difficult to achieve honestly, but it might take some creativity. As I said before, the dot centered tree has been decidedly the best PvP spec of an AC's 3 trees in the past (assault vanguard most notably), which helps to prove that it's not inherently "a bad choice". Direct upfront damage is obviously better than damage over time, but specs that rely on the latter can be given compensation in PvP in areas such as defensive capabilities, mobility, energy management, etc. And I'm not sure how good of an idea it would be to give attacks different damage coefficients between PvE and PvP in the interest of balance, but it could be used as a last resort.

 

As far as not trusting BW.... I don't expect balance to ever actually get to the level of quality I'm talking about- I'm talking about potentially/hypothetically. I'm not expecting, just hoping I'd rather aim high and be disappointed than settle for putting a "PvE" stamp on top of certain skill trees.

 

By the way, you should give watchman another chance in PvP. I wouldn't play it in ranked, except possibly in voidstar defense (though combat is probably better, mostly because of improved trans), but you can do quite well with it in regs if you know what you're doing.

[Kash_Onasi]

i nominate JediMasterSLC

[sithloardbob]

krunchymedia has my vote

[Ryannnnnnn]

I support krunchymedia for representative of the sentinel ac as well. Great player, great skill and great understanding of the class and it's 3 respective skill trees.

[ecaron]

I vote Krunchymedia

[Bobcowww]

Another vote for krunchymedia

[AngelFluttershy]

I have to say JediMasterSLC. I wasn't sure at first, but seeing how he's handling this thread more than qualifies him for the role of representative.

[necrogaurd]

I Nominate Murk1n

[LeDri]

Most of the Sentinels named here are great players and they would probably make for good representativers, but i would like you guys to think that we dont need the best player to represent us, we need a guy with experience on showing prove on pros and cons, with tested proficiency on summarize every aspect of our class issues and a good dose of criticism.

 

Please check this, i dont have any relation with oofalong, i havent even ever talk with him, but if i have to choose who is going to represent my loved class ... i have no doubt.

 

^^^^^^

THAT

 

I am voting for Oofalong

[K_osss]

Tough choice. lots of good folks and I think the best will all get a turn.

 

My choices:

1. SLC

2. KBN

3. Oofalong

[Roennest]

I nominate Tman_AC for being an outstanding sentinal and a good teammate!

[Aelther]

+1 for tman_ac

[Maelael]

I'm not really sure who you are, and I don't know why you're blindly attempting to make somebody that you don't know anything about look bad, but if you would like to watch my stream, feel free to do so. I have been streaming ranked warzones about every night since transfers came out (not lately since internet has been having issues.) Please note that I don't stream myself when I run PvE progression due to the lack of interest from my viewers. I have two channels. I'm also not one to judge other people based on their valor ranks, because from my experience from doing ranked warzones (been doing them since ranked was released) valor rank isn't an indicator of skill level.

 

http://www.twitch.tv/mediaswtor

http://www.twitch.tv/mediaa

 

Thanks for watching.

 

There we go! I'll watch these later for sure. I'm glad you do PvE too.

 

You can read what I wrote however you want, but to summate: I just wanted to see if you were cracked up to anything besides being an (bleep)hat on the forums - as I couldn't personally find anything BUT that. Then your fanbois went full retard instead of posting those links. Get smarter fans.

 

If you stop being an (bleep)hat on the forums you'll prolly get more votes from the carebears fyi. I'm guessing 70% carebears and 30% mixed other people turn out to vote.

 

(And yes, Valor is only well indicative of how well you can afk in a warzone for months. I also notice a lot of people post scrub fights in RWZ and Pugs - I'll be interested to see if your channel has different.)

Edited July 12, 2013 by Maelael

[Maelael]

Stuff

 

I realize I'm strange in the fact that I think posts should stay on topic, but if you really prefer I can post here what I'm about to send you in PMs (Healthy discussion, just OT). Sorry for gunking up the thread.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Maelael

[JediMasterSLC]

I realize I'm strange in the fact that I think posts should stay on topic, but if you really prefer I can post here what I'm about to send you in PMs (Healthy discussion, just OT). Sorry for gunking up the thread.

 

Fair enough, thank you for the healthy discussion.

[KeyboardNinja]

SLC is great, but I would probably vote for Oofalong personally. I would love to get the nod (I have some very specific questions about the Focus design philosophy), but it's not as if the community rep is going to be going off and pestering the developers with questions off the top of their head. We as a community drive this effort. We should be picking someone who spends their time here on the forums discussing strengths and weaknesses of the class, helping newcomers and mentoring the veterans.