Cross healing is ridiculous

[Cretinus]

you forgot to mention that 2 healers have to account for the damage of about 5-6 DPS players

 

Not since this great move by BW of allowing respecc in WZs. It's rather 5 healers and 2-3 tanks when deffing, so each healer will have to account for the dmg of 1 DPS here.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Cretinus

[Maelael]

If you're going to quote random pug games, then I've had a plenty of games where we dominated the enemy team ready with at least 2 healers, without a single healer for our side.

 

But then you're going to refute "that's because the enemy team with the healers sucked!.

 

...and to that, I would say, "Exactly. That's what you and your teammates were doing in that game."

 

If the game becomes boring, or your side keeps losing, then there can be very many reasons for it -- and none of it involves the system. It's the human factor which makes stuff happen or not happen, and in your case, clearly none of your team had anything to "make it happen".

 

Who said anything about my side losing? Along with the rest of your assumptions. That or you flunked out of mind reading class. Address my post without the wrong assumptions, otherwise I have no idea how to respond to you.

[frankiejo]

Not since this great move by BW of allowing respecc in WZs. It's rather 5 healers and 2-3 tanks when deffing, so each healer will have to account for the dmg of 1 DPS here.

 

eh go ahead and take out respeccing in WZs, it's too much trouble anyway. They should allow you to respecc in the minute and a half before the game starts, in case you run into a team with too many or too few healers and you want to balance it out, but yeah I can see how having a bunch of agents and inquisitors respeccing to heal so they can turtle D is unfair and annoying.

 

This does not mean I think they should nerf healers, or heals received by healers. Play one before you cast a stone, if it's easy it means the other team sucks, and at that point it's not your fault that they suck. I spend a good portion of any interesting match running for my freaking life.

[Cretinus]

eh go ahead and take out respeccing in WZs, it's too much trouble anyway. They should allow you to respecc in the minute and a half before the game starts, in case you run into a team with too many or too few healers and you want to balance it out, but yeah I can see how having a bunch of agents and inquisitors respeccing to heal so they can turtle D is unfair and annoying.

 

This does not mean I think they should nerf healers, or heals received by healers. Play one before you cast a stone, if it's easy it means the other team sucks, and at that point it's not your fault that they suck. I spend a good portion of any interesting match running for my freaking life.

 

Agreed. Removing respec after WZ has started would probably solve most healer+tank related problems.

And also agreed that healers shouldn't be generally nerfed. Nevertheless, operatives' energy management needs to be looked at, there's no way around this one.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Cretinus

[frankiejo]

Agreed. Removing respec after WZ has started would probably solve most healer+tank related problems.

And also agreed that healers shouldn't be generally nerfed. Nevertheless, operatives' energy management needs to be looked at, there's no way around this one.

 

I dunno, the feature that keeps our energy management so good now is that we can heal indefinitely if our target is below 30% hp, this is a scenario where "working as intended" applys because the idea is you can keep a person alive long enough for them to fight their way out of the box. Now if they wanted to tweak our energy management a bit without changing this feature I could see it being viable without wrecking the class. As it stands operatives are probably the best healer, but i keep making this point, they should improve the other operative trees (concealment at the very least is broken) so that we aren't being pigeon-holed into our role as the healer.

Edited July 11, 2013 by frankiejo

[cashogy_reborn]

Offensive and defensive bonuses do not cancel each other out. Damage dealt increase for 2018 expertise is 60%. Damage taken reduction is 37.5%.

 

dont you get tired of being wrong all the time?

[Cretinus]

I dunno, the feature that keeps our energy management so good now is that we can heal indefinitely if our target is below 30% hp, this is a scenario where "working as intended" applys because the idea is you can keep a person alive long enough for them to fight their way out of the box. Now if they wanted to tweak our energy management a bit without changing this feature I could see it being viable without wrecking the class. As it stands operatives are probably the best healer, but i keep making this point, they should improve the other operative trees (concealment at the very least is broken) so that we aren't being pigeon-holed into our role as the healer.

 

Well, of course it's nice to be able to keep them alive forever, but that's not how PvP should work. A healer should be able to keep his mates alive for a while, to give them a good opportunity to do their job. But not infinitely. A good player has to be able to manage his resources and this should also apply to operatives.

 

1. Get rid of respeccing after the WZ has started.

2. Make operative heals more expensive in terms of energy.

3. Buff merc healers a tiny little bit.

4. Sorc healers are fine l2p

 

This should be enough to balance heal.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Cretinus

[bsbrad]

Agreed. Removing respec after WZ has started would probably solve most healer+tank related problems.

And also agreed that healers shouldn't be generally nerfed. Nevertheless, operatives' energy management needs to be looked at, there's no way around this one.

 

The problem with this is that whoever is on defense in VS will respec to all heals/tanks and turtle and hope to cap the 1st door by attrition when attacking.

 

I would prefer a mechanism where you either queue for the role in the WZ (similar to FPs), however this is fraught with longer queues which people dont like or you deal with the cards you are given and remove re-speccing completely from PVP. You can respec between matches just not in the WZ.

[frankiejo]

Well, of course it's nice to be able to keep them alive forever, but that's not how PvP should work. A healer should be able to keep his mates alive for a while, to give them a good opportunity to do their job. But not infinitely. A good player has to be able to manage his resources and this should also apply to operatives.

 

1. Get rid of respeccing after the WZ has started.

2. Make operative heals more expensive in terms of energy.

3. Buff merc healers a tiny little bit.

4. Sorc healers are fine l2p

 

This should be enough to balance heal.

Taht is only how it works now in the most extreme circumstance, because when a person is below 30% HP they are literally one missed heal away from death. the surgical probe is intended to be a niche heal to keep someone alive indefinitley, but the second you get stunned, or a DPS crits your target at the right time it's over. Play a sorcerer, which can actually pull bigger numbers for healing matchwide, and then play an operative, and I think you'll understand that the mechanism isn't over-powered, it's just that most PuG groups don't handle it right. if people were on the spot focus firing on the healer, or peeling the healer off of him, it's over.

[Tragamite]

The problem with this is that whoever is on defense in VS will respec to all heals/tanks and turtle and hope to cap the 1st door by attrition when attacking.

 

I would prefer a mechanism where you either queue for the role in the WZ (similar to FPs), however this is fraught with longer queues which people dont like or you deal with the cards you are given and remove re-speccing completely from PVP. You can respec between matches just not in the WZ.

 

Yes I've seen this. And I agree that the PvP queues should have something like the PvE group finder. For this I would have no issues with an initial respec to meet that criteria but once the battle starts that's it you are the role you selected.

[Arkerus]

Healing has to be toned down. PvP and ranked PvP is beyond stupid at this point. Two teams running into each other for 15 minutes is not working as intended. Edited July 12, 2013 by Arkerus

[kweassa]

Well, of course it's nice to be able to keep them alive forever, but that's not how PvP should work. A healer should be able to keep his mates alive for a while, to give them a good opportunity to do their job. But not infinitely. A good player has to be able to manage his resources and this should also apply to operatives.

 

A healer in SWTOR already does what you have set down. That's why it depends on the opposite side, the enemy players, to reduce the efficiency of that healer to the lowest output possible.

 

To use the same logic to the opposite side as well, an attacker needs to be able to judge at which careful timing and which heal attempts to cancel out/interrupt, as well as dish out CCs such as stuns, KBs and etc.. at the proper timing to be able to reduce the efficiency of enemy healers.

 

Just latching on to one healer and mashing any attack button -- and then realizing how ineffective your attempt to shut it down is -- does not qualify as "focusing".

 

 

Mark down my words.

 

"The times when it seems the enemy healer is OP -- is actually the times when your team is UP"

[Tragamite]

A healer in SWTOR already does what you have set down. That's why it depends on the opposite side, the enemy players, to reduce the efficiency of that healer to the lowest output possible.

 

To use the same logic to the opposite side as well, an attacker needs to be able to judge at which careful timing and which heal attempts to cancel out/interrupt, as well as dish out CCs such as stuns, KBs and etc.. at the proper timing to be able to reduce the efficiency of enemy healers.

 

Just latching on to one healer and mashing any attack button -- and then realizing how ineffective your attempt to shut it down is -- does not qualify as "focusing".

 

 

Mark down my words.

"The times when it seems the enemy healer is OP -- is actually the times when your team is UP"

 

Solid perceptions here. I know that most any nonhealer view Ops and scoundrels as as OP more so than any other healing class. I believe this is because of the regen time of energy. Mercs can overheat quickly trying to keep up heals in PvP and Sages can run out of focus.

 

A Op who runs low on energy can stealth and go regenerate energy. With upperhand they can pop a regen or they have the standard energy recovery. Sage and Sorc have to sacrifice of themselves to recover force. This puts them at risk if they don't recover quickly. Mercs can pop a cooldown if they have 30 stacks of their buff or use the standard recovery ability.

 

This really is why cross healing is critical, not just for the healers but the whole team.

 

Now if it is 4-6+ healers on a team it is not a cross healing problem it's a composition problem.

[Cretinus]

Solid perceptions here. I know that most any nonhealer view Ops and scoundrels as as OP more so than any other healing class.

 

I actually don't believe that people see the other two healing classes as OP at all. As you said, ops can reg without having to expose themselves and this is what makes people go ballistic. It's probably fine in PvE, but it's quite a freak in a PvP environment. Sort of a passive perma o-sh.it button.

 

As said above:

 

1. No respecc during WZs.

2. Buff mercs.

3. Nerf ops energy wise.

4. Leave sorcs as they are.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Cretinus

[Kesphin]

Just increase heal reduction in wz by 5-10%.

Increase sorcerer healing in madness to compensate.

 

Problem solved.

 

Don't need to try things that will break everything.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Kesphin