PerinnAybara Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 I know they don't read these threads because I haven't been banned yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt_Beers Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 Mathrim, are we being trolled?! I can't tell anymore. Let me be clear: Mando/mercs suck. Like the WNBA. Now you come trolling along and say, the WNBA doesn't really suck, it's more so that the NBA is better in comparison.... Ok. you win. I don't care if you shoot the NBA players in the leg (aka nerf the other healing classes) or give the WNBA players steroids (aka buff mando/mercs), all we're saying is that it isn't an equal playing field by far. Then you said if mando's were made stronger no one would die... How about: if mando's were made stronger, we might be able to insert them into RWZ's, then we could actually start evaluating what they could do, healing-wise. People die in RWZs now, and the mando/merc healer is nonexistent, so buffing them will not eliminate the ability to kill. In fact, it will make it slightly easier if we take the place of sages. The reason is sages cast bubbles, which prevent damage. Commandos and scoundrels cast healing and hots onto players who have already sustained damage to gain health back. This is a drastically different approach. When you first run into a wz and everyone is bubbled up, the health bars don't move. The health bars would move much quicker out the gate without the sage healer. Go back under you bridge, sir. No trolling here. Commandos function pretty well with what they have. And with the current strength of Scoundrel/Operative healing I would be worried buffing another healing class would make it healing as a whole over tuned. No ranked team takes one healer so you have to think how these classes will interact. It really is my opinion that Commandos can hold their own pretty well. When three or more DPS are on you you should die, without guard/taunt anyway. If I get guarded I can stay alive almost indefinitely. Ammo Management is really the only thing that is limiting my performance as a Commando. If that's the gate the devs put on this class to keep it from being over tuned I don't see them removing it. In my opinion Scoundrels don't have a gate like that. They have no resource management to speak of, they are the least vulnerable to interrupts and they have a very good get of out of trouble card. I'm all for Commandos getting a buff bu it wouldn't want them to be too easy to play. I would be all for a system for Commandos that gives the class more depth while making a well played Mando stronger but leaves middling players still pulling mediocre results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted July 9, 2013 Share Posted July 9, 2013 No trolling here. Commandos function pretty well with what they have. And with the current strength of Scoundrel/Operative healing I would be worried buffing another healing class would make it healing as a whole over tuned. No ranked team takes one healer so you have to think how these classes will interact. It really is my opinion that Commandos can hold their own pretty well. When three or more DPS are on you you should die, without guard/taunt anyway. If I get guarded I can stay alive almost indefinitely. Ammo Management is really the only thing that is limiting my performance as a Commando. If that's the gate the devs put on this class to keep it from being over tuned I don't see them removing it. In my opinion Scoundrels don't have a gate like that. They have no resource management to speak of, they are the least vulnerable to interrupts and they have a very good get of out of trouble card. I'm all for Commandos getting a buff bu it wouldn't want them to be too easy to play. I would be all for a system for Commandos that gives the class more depth while making a well played Mando stronger but leaves middling players still pulling mediocre results. I think you're right on target as far as healing goes. for me to hang in the same ballpark as a sage, I need much better ammo management. 2 dps (unless they're bad) should kill ANY unguarded healer. if they cannot, then there's something wrong with the game. I don't care how good the healer is. if the dps aren't bad, they have to be able to kill a solo healer. lastly, as you say, more heals in the post 2.0 environment is just not practical. healing is already too powerful (considering the healing buffs PLUS the tanking/mitigation buffs). all of that adds up to: the other healing classes need to come back down more so than mandos need to be raised up. I just don't think that's going to ever happen. so the next best thing is better resource management. it's the least invasive change imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owynyo Posted July 10, 2013 Author Share Posted July 10, 2013 Putting this thread where it belongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skotish Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 Putting this thread where it belongs. Even the score BW merc class eternal also rans *bump* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaniardInfinity Posted July 10, 2013 Share Posted July 10, 2013 How about: if mando's were made stronger, we might be able to insert them into RWZ's, then we could actually start evaluating what they could do, healing-wise. People die in RWZs now, and the mando/merc healer is nonexistent, so buffing them will not eliminate the ability to kill. In fact, it will make it slightly easier if we take the place of sages. The reason is sages cast bubbles, which prevent damage. Commandos and scoundrels cast healing and hots onto players who have already sustained damage to gain health back. This is a drastically different approach. When you first run into a wz and everyone is bubbled up, the health bars don't move. The health bars would move much quicker out the gate without the sage healer. Go back under you bridge, sir. Have you ever heard that water takes the path of least resistance? Players also take the path of least resistance and in this case, its Scoundrel/Operative. Sage/Sorcerer and Commando/Mercenary are both balanced, in my opinion. They both have clear strengths (group and single target heals, respectively) and distinct weaknesses (healing glass cannon and poor group healing, respectively). The problem is that Scoundrel/Operative has too few weaknesses compared to how many strengths it has. Something's got to give. If I was betting man I'd say they'd nerf Scoundrel/Operative before touching Commando/Mercenary. (But Bioware is kind of bipolar when it comes to class balancing, so who knows what will happen or when). But I do agree with Beers that we pretty much have all the tools we need. I think one or two cooldowns could be lowered in some way and tinkering with Frontline Medic/Peacekeeper is all the class needs. The class is underrated and people have unrealistic expectations of it. Given a chance, they'll surprise you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midianlord Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 what kind of fix would you like? Electro-Dart/Cryo-Grenade back to 30/35m range. IMHO, this is all that's really needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atramar Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Electro-Dart/Cryo-Grenade back to 30/35m range. IMHO, this is all that's really needed. that's all it takes to fix merc/mando healing tree? easy enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Never_Hesitate Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 It just surprises me that nobody cares anymore. Seems like every mando/merc has rerolled operative or they just quit. And all pyro pt/assult vanguards rerolled as well, didn't they? I would like to see a skill tree fix for frontline medic, that would be a very good start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter_Mathis Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Mercs heal pretty well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atramar Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Mercs heal pretty well well, that killed the whine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheOneWag Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Mercs heal pretty well Hoho, wow I laughed. Whoever those two guys with 2mil and 1.7mil damage must have felt pretty mad since they got a grand total of 4 kills. Go figure with enough cross healing, even Mercs can stand there and spam heal! Why? Because the Sorc / Op is the one tanking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerinnAybara Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Honestly, of late I've only trolled when providing feedback. Because I had given up that my voice would ever be heard. Anyway, in response to the post stating Merc's heal pretty well, the Anecdotal evidence. Things to note, That was a pug warzone. As you would never see such a match in rateds. You have two smashers almost pacing the same amount of damage. They apparently just smashed buttons and were never focused. Noone was ever in danger of dying on the merc side. The team had 3 healers, and a sin who got 1 million protection. They're total deaths were 5. 2 on the tank, 2 on the Juggernaut dps, and 1 on the Solo guard sin. So the merc's 3 healer + a tank team died 5 times to 5,257,373 damage. Over a million damage taken per death. I'm sure this is a typical warzone where obviously the merc was literally left alone to freecast and didn't ever have to leave a pve environmental heals. He also perpetually had koltoshell on Xscorpionx who guard swapped. Meaning that was proccing consistently while the Focus Guardians smashed around. His kolto bombs would perpetually hit two people, tank + whatever group the smasher's were pounding on. And the tank only died because he would take two smashes, and reflected damage through guard. If this was normal conditions, you would never see a merc heal that much, and under every other condition, with equal skill mercs/operatives/sorcs you would see a huge disparity in healing output. To this, I also point out the 4.5 million healing operatives, or the 4 million sorcs. Yeah, so our top in ideal land is only half the other twos. (anecdotal evidence of course) Those were also in ranked where people actually get interrupted/focused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midianlord Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 that's all it takes to fix merc/mando healing tree? easy enough Well, I meant more Mercs/Mandos in general, but it's obvious that healers would benefit from this, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter_Mathis Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 (edited) Hoho, wow I laughed. Whoever those two guys with 2mil and 1.7mil damage must have felt pretty mad since they got a grand total of 4 kills. Go figure with enough cross healing, even Mercs can stand there and spam heal! Why? Because the Sorc / Op is the one tanking No, Anore is the one that get's focused. Anore always gets focused. He's Anore. Edited July 11, 2013 by Carter_Mathis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenseiMahou Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Hoho, wow I laughed. Whoever those two guys with 2mil and 1.7mil damage must have felt pretty mad since they got a grand total of 4 kills. Go figure with enough cross healing, even Mercs can stand there and spam heal! Why? Because the Sorc / Op is the one tanking No, he pretty much got focused pretty hard. If you notice, that's from the exact same match where he did 2.5K HPS on a Merc. You're all just bad. Deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter_Mathis Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 His name is Anore. He makes other mercs feel inadequate. The sky is blue. Now that we have the basic laws of nature established, lets qq more about mercs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skotish Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 His name is Anore. He makes other mercs feel inadequate. The sky is blue. Now that we have the basic laws of nature established, lets qq more about mercs. One Merc that can heal cant even get half the score of the top op/ sorc healers so yes he is good but merc healers are in a bad place stop with the half arsed attempt @ e-peen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owynyo Posted July 11, 2013 Author Share Posted July 11, 2013 Could we see a ranked screenshot of the great Anore? Perhaps his W/L or a decent hps in an RWZ game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carter_Mathis Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 One Merc that can heal cant even get half the score of the top op/ sorc healers so yes he is good but merc healers are in a bad place stop with the half arsed attempt @ e-peen You have SS's of sorcs and ops doing 5.2k hps? Otherwise it's not half the output, it's the same or better in a match half the length..... Math is hard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cretinus Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 (edited) For reasons that I don't want to share here, mandos/mercs are absolutely fine and should l2p. Hope this helps. Have a good day. Edited July 11, 2013 by Cretinus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atramar Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 One Merc that can heal cant even get half the score of the top op/ sorc healers so yes he is good but merc healers are in a bad place stop with the half arsed attempt @ e-peen well, on that screen you actually do have scoundrel and sage... so it's measurable... ofc. we know it's just numbers, they don't mean mando/mercs are op in healing output jsut cause he got more here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxmob Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 No, Anore is the one that get's focused. Anore always gets focused. He's Anore. lol not gonna burst down anore with two smashers while he has a guard and two other healers (nor should the other two drop in that instance). however, if you want to debunk anything, I'd begin and end by saying it look like an NC match that stalemated at mid to start and then maxed out pretty far with some 2-cap action, likely because of ninja work, given the lack of kills for the other squad (a 54-0 finish). half the winning team are heals/tanks, so it put a lot of onus on the other 3 players (assuming a guard at east) to push the other team off the node. the fact that a tank did 300k also leads me to believe it was a prolonged match. Anore and hammsolo are the only healers there I've even seen before. despite all of that, there's no arguing the fact that Anore doubled the output of the other two classes. I'm not sure how that's even possible if he was the one primarily focused, since he wouldn't be able to get a casted heal off without his shield up, over half of which time he should have been stunned, but so be it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owynyo Posted July 11, 2013 Author Share Posted July 11, 2013 since he wouldn't be able to get a casted heal off without his shield up, over half of which time he should have been stunned, but so be it. Come on... we're talking about regular warzones here. 75% of players haven't even bought their interrupt spell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atramar Posted July 11, 2013 Share Posted July 11, 2013 Come on... we're talking about regular warzones here. 75% of players haven't even bought their interrupt spell. taht is also very true.. nerf healers so their healing skills will drop on a single hit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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