If you are going to just let people buy the Ewok...

[branmakmuffin]

Yes I say so! Deal with it.

Whatever.

[Morgani]

The Ewok could have an emote that let's her play percussion with a bunch of stormtrooper helmets , i would get that straight away .

 

<snip out>

 

Cheers,

 

BadOrb.

 

I no longer know what's going on in this thread but yes. YES BW! Percussion on Imperial Trooper helmets we need this when Twerk comes out omg

[Skaol-dirtyd]

That's awfully subjective. But of course that is your right.

 

I contend that anything purchased through in game means requires the same effort as using the bathroom. However, more times than not earning cash is just a wee bit more difficult.

 

There is no effort in a video game. You push plastic keys and a puck. You probably burn more calories blinking.

 

Talk challenge and reward, the only reputable gauges that can be used inside games. Paying with cash presents an award with no challenge. And looking at it that way being challenged deserves a bit more recognition.

 

But guys...please stop pretending playing video games is an athletic endeavor.

Where did I mention or equate playing video games to a sport?

 

The post you quoted was in direct response to someone I was having a discussion with relating to the definition of earn vs. buy.

 

Maybe I am crazy that I think it is an inaccurate use of the word earned when someone says that they earned an ewok they paid cash for off of the CM.

 

If that is crazy then call me cuckoo. I feel like this clip is playing in my head

Edited July 3, 2013 by Skaol-dirtyd

[Skaol-dirtyd]

Whatever.

 

Exactly !!

[LordArtemis]

Where did I mention or equate playing video games to a sport?

 

The post you quoted was in direct response to someone I was having a discussion with relating to the definition of earn vs. buy.

 

Maybe I am crazy that I think it is inaccurate use of the word earned when someone says that they earned an ewok they paid cash for off of the CM.

 

If that is crazy then call me cuckoo.

 

I'm not calling you crazy. I'm simply pointing out the folly of arguing the merits and requirements of "earning" items in a game. Nothing is earned because no real effort is involved. It doesn't matter if you were given the item, sang a tune for an hour, stood in a city, bought it with credits or with cash...it all took the same amount of effort to get the item...next to none.

 

The only real gauge is challenge and reward. There is no challenge to get an item with cash. Therefore the reward is less meaningful without a challenge attached to it.

 

That's all I was trying to put forth.

[branmakmuffin]

I'm not calling you crazy. I'm simply pointing out the folly of arguing the merits and requirements of "earning" items in a game. Nothing is earned because no real effort is involved. It doesn't matter if you were given the item, sang a tune for an hour, stood in a city, bought it with credits or with cash...it all took the same amount of effort to get the item...next to none.

 

The only real gauge is challenge and reward. There is no challenge to get an item with cash. Therefore the reward is less meaningful without a challenge attached to it.

 

That's all I was trying to put forth.

And challenge, and you might agree with this, is a personal matter. If A wants to obtain Treek via the "challenge" route, that's A's choice. If B wants to buy Treek with CC, that's B's choice, and none of A's business.

[Skaol-dirtyd]

I'm not calling you crazy. I'm simply pointing out the folly of arguing the merits and requirements of "earning" items in a game. Nothing is earned because no real effort is involved. It doesn't matter if you were given the item, sang a tune for an hour, stood in a city, bought it with credits or with cash...it all took the same amount of effort to get the item...next to none.

 

The only real gauge is challenge and reward. There is no challenge to get an item with cash. Therefore the reward is less meaningful without a challenge attached to it.

 

That's all I was trying to put forth.

 

Well see there we actually agree in a sense.

Not once was I arguing the merits of earning anything in a video game.

I was simply arguing the fallacy of claiming to earn something by purchasing it, as it related to the persons post I was discussing this with.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Skaol-dirtyd

[branmakmuffin]

Well see there we actually agree.

Not once was I arguing the merits of earning anything in a video game.

I was simply arguing the fallacy of claiming to earn something by purchasing it, as it related to the persons post I was discussing this with.

Then you presumably agree with LordArtemis that you don't really earn it by grinding out legacy 40, either.

[LordArtemis]

And challenge, and you might agree with this, is a personal matter. If A wants to obtain Treek via the "challenge" route, that's A's choice. If B wants to buy Treek with CC, that's B's choice, and none of A's business.

 

I agree, challenge is both subjective AND a choice. One does not trump the other, though I think one could acknowledge acquiring reward through challenge as opposed to avoiding it. That in no way demeans a challenge-less acquisition, only recognizes acquisition by means of challenge.

 

This could be done many ways, but the most popular tend to be either titles or appearance of the item. For instance, a unique item that one acquires from participation in an event.

[BadOrb]

I no longer know what's going on in this thread but yes. YES BW! Percussion on Imperial Trooper helmets we need this when Twerk comes out omg

 

Lol , you know it makes sense and the other faction version could play percussion on t7-01 heads , he he. Would look really cool within the disco ball emote at the same time.

 

Cheers,

 

BadOrb.

[Skaol-dirtyd]

Then you presumably agree with LordArtemis that you don't really earn it by grinding out legacy 40, either.

 

No I edited that post after thinking about it. His post was a bit to broad.

 

I am not sure, I do think there is merit to the legacy system. I think there are plenty of things that are achievements in games that are not as easy a pressing a keyboard as he says. If you think you can walk into NIM TFB and just press keys ... good luck... yes pressing keys is the action you are taking, but it is more than that.

 

I did like SWG model of getting rewards for time subbed to game.

 

Ultimately to me it is a video game, I am here to have fun. I will voice things I don't like from time to time but in the end I will not lose sleep over any decision BW makes regarding this game.

[LordArtemis]

Well see there we actually agree in a sense.

Not once was I arguing the merits of earning anything in a video game.

I was simply arguing the fallacy of claiming to earn something by purchasing it, as it related to the persons post I was discussing this with.

 

Fair enough. IMO one does not earn anything in a game since no real effort is involved. But one can be recognized for acquiring items through challenges instead of avoiding them.

 

Just my slant.

[LordArtemis]

No I edited that post after thinking about it. His post was a bit to broad.

 

I am not sure, I do think there is merit to the legacy system. I think there are plenty of things that are achievements in games that are not as easy a pressing a keyboard as he says. If you think you can walk into NIM TFB and just press keys ... good luck... yes pressing keys is the action you are taking, but it is more than that.

 

I did like SWG model of getting rewards for time subbed to game.

 

Ultimately to me it is a video game, I am here to have fun. I will voice things I don't like from time to time but in the end I will not lose sleep over any decision BW makes regarding this game.

 

See, there is an example. It is a challenge to stay subbed to a game and remain active. Therefore a reward for sub loyalty makes sense. And is appropriate IMO.

 

However, also note that in SWG rewards could be sold and purchased.

[curtkram]

That's awfully subjective. But of course that is your right.

 

I contend that anything purchased through in game means requires the same effort as using the bathroom. However, more times than not earning cash is just a wee bit more difficult.

 

There is no effort in a video game. You push plastic keys and a puck. You probably burn more calories blinking.

 

Talk challenge and reward, the only reputable gauges that can be used inside games. Paying with cash presents an award with no challenge. And looking at it that way being challenged deserves a bit more recognition.

 

But guys...please stop pretending playing video games is an athletic endeavor.

 

i push plastic keys and a puck at work for money. i even have one hand on the keyboard, the other on the mouse, just like the game. and i'm sitting. it's actually quite similar.

 

there are occasionally challenging scenarios in video games that require effort. those scenarios are what make video games worth playing. without the challenge, you might as well sit at home watching hypnotoads.

[branmakmuffin]

No I edited that post after thinking about it. His post was a bit to broad.

 

I am not sure, I do think there is merit to the legacy system. I think there are plenty of things that are achievements in games that are not as easy a pressing a keyboard as he says. If you think you can walk into NIM TFB and just press keys ... good luck... yes pressing keys is the action you are taking, but it is more than that.

No, that is still all there is to it. Success in a top-tier raid just means you know where to position your character and when and how often to press which keys.

[Skaol-dirtyd]

No, that is still all there is to it. Success in a top-tier raid just means you know where to position your character and when and how often to press which keys.

 

So you are saying there is no challenge there ? No challenge to NIM TFB ?

 

It is just stand in a position and press keys? No teamwork and coordination are needed? No timing needed?

 

None of those things?

Edited July 3, 2013 by Skaol-dirtyd

[TheBBP]

Then you presumably agree with LordArtemis that you don't really earn it by grinding out legacy 40, either.

 

For what it's worth, the legacy levels are easy. I only have 2 level 55's and 5 total characters over level 20. There are massive amounts of Legacy points in the Starter Worlds. In experimenting with things, I have done the starter worlds more times than I can count. I have created toons and deleted them just to do it.

 

There are also lots of points in dailies I think, but the bulk of my points were earned on Starter Worlds.

 

So, being all ADHD with alts has paid-off.

[Skaol-dirtyd]

By the way BBP dang man you must have registered within seconds of the site coming up and online back in 08'.

 

I know I got in within the 1st few hours but #176 is crazy!

 

One of the lowest I have seen.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Skaol-dirtyd

[TheBBP]

By the way BBP dang man you must have registered within seconds of the site coming up and online back in 08'.

 

I know I got in within the 1st few hours but #176 is crazy!

 

One of the lowest I have seen.

 

I was there registering as fast as possible. It was fast enough where I was shocked that 175 people got in front of me. Only to find out that many of those were BioWare/EA employee/dev accounts.

[TUXs]

By the way BBP dang man you must have registered within seconds of the site coming up and online back in 08'.

 

I know I got in within the 1st few hours but #176 is crazy!

 

One of the lowest I have seen.

 

Geezus...good eye. Obviously he's a Bioware employee!!!!

[branmakmuffin]

So you are saying there is no challenge there ? No challenge to NIM TFB ? It is just stand in a position and press keys? No teamwork and coordination are needed? No timing needed? None of those things?

Did I say it did not take teamwork? Did I say you never move your character? No, I said what it takes is knowing where to stand and what keys to press and when. No mention of teamwork and moving your character, or lack of either or both, in my statement.

 

Don't try to claim that doing a top-tier raid takes heaps of skill or effort. It's just rote learning.

[LordArtemis]

i push plastic keys and a puck at work for money. i even have one hand on the keyboard, the other on the mouse, just like the game. and i'm sitting. it's actually quite similar.

 

there are occasionally challenging scenarios in video games that require effort. those scenarios are what make video games worth playing. without the challenge, you might as well sit at home watching hypnotoads.

 

Words emphasized to make my point. It is a challenge. It does not take effort.

[LordArtemis]

So you are saying there is no challenge there ? No challenge to NIM TFB ?

 

It is just stand in a position and press keys? No teamwork and coordination are needed? No timing needed?

 

None of those things?

 

There is absolutely challenge. There is almost zero effort though.

 

Challenge deserves reward IMO...the more challenging, the higher the reward. But almost no effort is required for any reward you gain in a video game.

[Andryah]

But almost no effort is required for any reward you gain in a video game.

 

What if you are a total spaz with the keyboard and mouse though?

 

I agree with you about the "challenge" component.... but there is an effort component as well. Simply because not all players are created equal and some must apply more effort to overcome a challenge.

 

I do however agree that a lot of actual "effort" in MMOs is basically "showing up" and "putting in your time"... with a sprinkling of real challenge and throttling of effort applied when faced with real challenge (like dying repeatedly to the same mission elite... simply because your keyboard+ mouse are having a tussle with your hands, or you failed to apply the "secret sauce" for that mission elite).

Edited July 4, 2013 by Andryah

[TheBBP]

What if you are a total spaz with the keyboard and mouse though?

 

I agree with you about the "challenge" component.... but there is an effort component as well. Simply because not all players are created equal and some must apply more effort to overcome a challenge.

 

I do however agree that a lot of actual "effort" in MMOs is basically "showing up" and "putting in your time"... with a sprinkling of real challenge and throttling of effort applied when faced with real challenge (like dying repeatedly to the same mission elite... simply because your keyboard+ mouse are having a tussle with your hands, or you failed to apply the "secret sauce" for that mission boss).

 

"Putting in your time" should equate to a lot of effort lol. Between the kids and the ADD... Often times it is hard to stay on track. It takes some effort!