Petition to make the ewok not buy able by cc

[KimbeFett]

Apparently not.. because you are complaining that it's not meeting your needs/wants and is moving in a direction you disagree with.

 

lol I just linked you the FAQ because that was the design intent of this game. You can't dispute that it was the intent; you also can't dispute that this advertisement was what brought many to this game. You ALSO can't dispute that the concept revolutionized MMOs. (ESO is supposed to be story driven; WoW's latest xpac was much more story driven)

 

Also If it weren't meeting my needs/wants I wouldn't be here; I am still playing through Class quests; but there is a limited timeframe there

 

The direction they are moving in doesn't change the original intent. This game was designed for that niche market. What they re-direct it to is another matter entirely

[Andryah]

LOL; So you would prefer this model to a model based off simply good game design?

 

You operate from a premise that the two are mutually exclusive. I do not.

 

I like this game. I have always liked it, since launch. I like it more today then a year ago, or even 6 months ago. In fact, I like it quite a bit more today then 3 months ago. I like what they are doing and how they are doing it. The CM is a component of that.. and there are parts I enjoy and parts I could care less about... but I don't see it as evil.. I see it as a net benefit for the game. You do not... that's fine. We can agree to disagree. I'm happy with the game, you apparently are not.

 

The business model in place today makes for a better overall game and a longer and more prosperous game for both players and the company. Not all players of course. Some players simply cannot accept change and will not accept change except on their terms. But you know what.. in all the years of my playing MMOs.. this has always been true of some parts of the player base. It's a natural liability of having a multiplayer property. Players come and go from MMOs all the time. It's the nature of the beast.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Andryah

[Dyronis]

Here's a thought: I make a ton of money and spend it how I see fit. Even after a mortgage, 2 car payments, and all the bills between me and the wife, if I decide to blow $250 on a game, instead of fishing or drinking, that is my business.

 

Also, to the OP - According to the Rules of Conduct,

 

I agree 100% with you. It's your money you spend it how you see fit. I have been for and against certain things when it comes to the cartel market. This however isn't really a big deal. You have a choice to pay credits, or cartel coins. I myself will be paying cartel coins because I enjoy keeping my credit pool as high as it is. So I can spend it on things that actually do affect my gameplay. Having a cartel coin option will not break the game for anyone. If anything you should be thanking the people that will be buying it with cartel coins. They're helping keep this game afloat.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Dyronis

[Andryah]

lol I just linked you the FAQ because that was the design intent of this game. You can't dispute that it was the intent; you also can't dispute that this advertisement was what brought many to this game. You ALSO can't dispute that the concept revolutionized MMOs. (ESO is supposed to be story driven; WoW's latest xpac was much more story driven)

 

Also If it weren't meeting my needs/wants I wouldn't be here; I am still playing through Class quests; but there is a limited timeframe there

 

The direction they are moving in doesn't change the original intent. This game was designed for that niche market. What they re-direct it to is another matter entirely

 

A lot of the "original intent" of the game from a design and delivery standpoint HAS changed. You just don't want to accept it, IMO. You have sown the seeds of your own terminal point of game enjoyment (as you said..limited timeframe).

 

Story (the most important part for you personally) for example..HAS changed. They have made it clear that they will continue story content.. but that it will not be class specific. And I'm fine with that. It makes sense to me. The characters are all grown up.. not younglings anymore at 50.. so story arcs are more integrated and homogeneous then for the 1-50 journey. I'm fine with that...even though I play a lot of alts. I don't get bored with seeing a story a second or 3rd time, especially when choices I make can nuance the story.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Andryah

[KimbeFett]

You operate from a premise that the two are mutually exclusive. I do not.

 

I notice you didn't actually answer my question however; do you prefer a game that requires micro-transactions to be fun to one that is simply fun?

Edited July 4, 2013 by KimbeFett

[Andryah]

I notice you didn't actually answer my question however; do you prefer a game that requires micro-transactions to be fun to one that is simply fun?

 

I answered your question, just not in the manner you wanted.

 

Let me recap for you: "The two are not mutually exclusive"

 

And, I'm a realist. An MMO without microtransactions in today's genre will not exist in the future. An MMO not existing..that would not be fun. I prefer there continue to be MMOs that are fun to play and if that means a different business model... so be it.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Andryah

[KimbeFett]

I answered your question, just not in the manner you wanted.

 

Let me recap for you: "The two are not mutually exclusive"

 

How are

"Micro transactions required" and

"Micro transactions not required"

Not mutually exclusive?

[Andryah]

How are

"Micro transactions required" and

"Micro transactions not required"

Not mutually exclusive?

 

Amended comment above.. answered.

[KimbeFett]

And, I'm a realist. An MMO without microtransactions in today's genre will not exist in the future. An MMO not existing..that would not be fun. I prefer there continue to be MMOs that are fun to play and if that means a different business model... so be it.

 

But if there was such a game; which existed; which didn't require micro-transactions; wouldn't this be your preferred game? My question just comes back to what is best for the player;

 

Sure you can connect the fact that Companies need to make money to continue to produce the game therefore they need a mechanism to make money and in todays fiercely competitive market with most games not charging a subscription it is the only way for this niche game to make that money.

 

Sure; you can make those connections

 

But my question was simply; IF the game existed, IF it didn't need those micro transactions; wouldn't it be better, for the player?

Edited July 4, 2013 by KimbeFett

[LordArtemis]

How are

"Micro transactions required" and

"Micro transactions not required"

Not mutually exclusive?

 

Because you asked a loaded question. The point was a game can be fun with or without MT.

 

I think without MTs it would be better for traditional hardcore players. With MTs it tends to be better for casual players.

 

Right now casuals dominate the market.

Edited July 4, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Andryah]

But my question was simply; IF the game existed, IF it didn't need those micro transactions; wouldn't it be better, for the player?

 

Who knows. Since it would drive the MMO provider out of business as a result.. good for the player in the short term, bad for the player in the long terms. Why? Because players very often get invested in their MMOs.

 

But let's be honest...you are being idealistic in the extreme, to what point I am not sure.

 

Let me paraphrase by analogy:

 

IF there was no poverty, disease, hunger and war on the planet... wouldn't the planet be a better place?

 

Perhaps. Perhaps not. Nobody knows for sure. Why? Because human beings are able to idealize in the mind, yet not actually live idealistically.

[KimbeFett]

Because you asked a loaded question. The point was a game can be fun with or without MT.

 

I think without MTs it would be better for traditional hardcore players. With MTs it tends to be better for casual players.

 

Right now casuals dominate the market.

 

MTs aren't good for anyone except the company.

 

Look at a typical example; back in the EQ days it took FOREVER to get anywhere; probably had to get teleported or spend literally forever. (Hardcore player pretends to love this)

 

Newer Freemium games take not as long as EQ to get places but pretty long unless ...

 

You buy the MT for the mount (Pro MT people like this? Hardcore people object because it should be HARD you should EARN it)

 

My stance?

 

Give everyone the mount; whats fun about running around staring at my Sith Pureblood's rear end all day?

 

I am on the side of fun; I am on the side of not being nickle and dime'd to have fun.

[Andryah]

My stance?

 

Give everyone the mount; whats fun about running around staring at my Sith Pureblood's rear end all day?

 

I am on the side of fun; I am on the side of not being nickle and dime'd to have fun.

 

MMOs are not a charity endeavor for the players. They are entertainment for the masses of players, for profit. No profit, no entertainment, the players are unhappy.

 

Unhappy players =/= players having fun.

 

Maybe you should walk the talk... sponsor an MMO that meets your idealistic profile for an MMO.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Andryah

[KimbeFett]

MMOs are not a charity endeavor for the players. They are entertainment for the masses of players, for profit. No profit, no entertainment, the players are unhappy.

 

Unhappy players =/= players having fun.

 

And here I thought the point of playing a game was to have fun

[Andryah]

And here I thought the point of playing a game was to have fun

 

It is. Re-read what I wrote.

 

Let me TL;DR it for you: No profit, no game...no game, no fun for players = unhappy players.

 

Or were you parsing because I used the word "entertainment"? If you were.. then we done here because you know exactly what I mean.

Edited July 4, 2013 by Andryah

[Ratajack]

I understand. You have a niche requirement, let's be honest about that. And we can even say that it's Biowares fault.. for making great story as an integral part of the MMO at launch. They have said they are moving in a different direction on story now.

 

Guess what.. you are a segment of the player base, NOT THE player base. If you did represent THE player base.. and where the majority of the business lays.. then we would be seeing new class story content. They are not stupid... they are in business to be successful. If you personally represented success at the million player level.. they would be all over story content. But the reality is.. this is a casual broad appeal style MMO.. and it must cater to a wide and diverse audience of players. It's not a niche MMO. It cannot please everyone.

 

As for "Teddy Bear"... a lot of people are looking forward to this companion. Have you already run all the class stories to completion on all classes? If not.. roll a new character and take "Teddy" with you... Or don't. The choice is yours.

 

She has a "niche requirement"? We all have niche requirements, whether those be new FP's, new OPs, new PVP areas, or CM content. They are all "niche requirements" as none of them pertain to the entire player base. Unfortunately, the "niche" that seems to be getting the most attention is the CM. Even when they do introduce new content that might actually require a little effort, the "have to have it now" crowd comes in and whines for it to be sold on the CM and what happens?

[LordArtemis]

MTs aren't good for anyone except the company.

 

That is your opinion, and you are certainly entitled to it, but generally MTs tend to provide quicker content streams for the types of content that interest casual players...revenue in, revenue out sort of thing. This provides a steady stream of casual centric content in games that utilize MTs. This is how it appeals to casual gamers.

 

Look at a typical example; back in the EQ days it took FOREVER to get anywhere; probably had to get teleported or spend literally forever. (Hardcore player pretends to love this)

 

Newer Freemium games take not as long as EQ to get places but pretty long unless ...

 

You buy the MT for the mount (Pro MT people like this? Hardcore people object because it should be HARD you should EARN it)

 

...which is one of the reasons why MT games tend to attract casual players. It is more likely the game will contain convenience features as those tend to be the most profitable ones.

 

My stance?

 

Give everyone the mount; whats fun about running around staring at my Sith Pureblood's rear end all day?

 

I am on the side of fun; I am on the side of not being nickle and dime'd to have fun.

 

I understand your stance, and would even go so far as to state that games actualy underwent that phase, where they started to do away with draconian challenges in games and started to provide convenience.

 

This is a very generalized statement, this requires a much more in depth writeout, but overall the effect was the loss of a hardcore traditional playerbase while attracting a more transient casual base. This caused the entire industry to decline. They had to find a way to engage casuals as more and more traditional players moved on to other entertainment avenues, like single player to multiplayer FPS online games.

 

There were a few games that discovered, quite by accident, that they could avoid the transient caveat by charging actual cash directly for those features instead and remove the subscription requirement.

 

With a few notable exceptions this became the industry norm...now the industry could survive in a casual transient market and still provide a reasonable amount of content to a wider range of players.

 

And that is what we have today. Most games use the F2P hybrid systems in some form. Very few remain that are pure sub or F2P.

 

So, in short, a game that utilizes MTs tends to provide a steady stream of casual centric content to a transient base while still remaining solvent. That attracts and is appealing to casual players.

 

It is also slowly becoming more accepted by traditional hardcore players, though they still lag behind in acceptance....they were resistant to the original convenience movement as well.

Edited July 4, 2013 by LordArtemis

[CosmicKat]

MTs aren't good for anyone except the company.

 

Look at a typical example; back in the EQ days it took FOREVER to get anywhere; probably had to get teleported or spend literally forever. (Hardcore player pretends to love this)

 

Newer Freemium games take not as long as EQ to get places but pretty long unless ...

 

You buy the MT for the mount (Pro MT people like this? Hardcore people object because it should be HARD you should EARN it)

 

My stance?

 

Give everyone the mount; whats fun about running around staring at my Sith Pureblood's rear end all day?

 

I am on the side of fun; I am on the side of not being nickle and dime'd to have fun.

 

Nothing on the market today has anywhere near as long travel times as EQ did. Some EQ travel was very fun (travelling overland through scary zones), some was not (sitting in a boat for 20 minutes).

 

Players today are babies who cry and whine about 1 or 2 minutes of loading time to travel from one planet to another. They cry that their speeders aren't fast enough. They cry if they aren't completely immune from all badguys while on speeders. They cry that quick travel takes a whole 30 minutes to recharge.

 

If you handed the average player a silver trophy for showing up they would complain that it isn't gold.

[AndasKastor]

Nothing on the market today has anywhere near as long travel times as EQ did. Some EQ travel was very fun (travelling overland through scary zones), some was not (sitting in a boat for 20 minutes).

 

Players today are babies who cry and whine about 1 or 2 minutes of loading time to travel from one planet to another. They cry that their speeders aren't fast enough. They cry if they aren't completely immune from all badguys while on speeders. They cry that quick travel takes a whole 30 minutes to recharge.

 

If you handed the average player a silver trophy for showing up they would complain that it isn't gold.

 

But, but.... everyone is a winner nowadays (in the US anyway). My grandson got a participation trophy for summer soccer and they didn't win a single game all season.

 

I did enjoy EQ1 travel (but I was a bard with a good drum )

[Kalms]

how about keeping it buyable with CC but still keep requirement of 40 legacy?

[Ratajack]

how about keeping it buyable with CC but still keep requirement of 40 legacy?

 

As long as the legacy 40 requirement could NOT be bypassed by throwing money at BW, or in any other way, I think that would satisfy all but the "have to have it now" crowd.

[Andryah]

That is your opinion, and you are certainly entitled to it, but generally MTs tend to provide quicker content streams for the types of content that interest casual players...revenue in, revenue out sort of thing. This provides a steady stream of casual centric content in games that utilize MTs. This is how it appeals to casual gamers.

 

 

 

...which is one of the reasons why MT games tend to attract casual players. It is more likely the game will contain convenience features as those tend to be the most profitable ones.

 

 

 

I understand your stance, and would even go so far as to state that games actualy underwent that phase, where they started to do away with draconian challenges in games and started to provide convenience.

 

This is a very generalized statement, this requires a much more in depth writeout, but overall the effect was the loss of a hardcore traditional playerbase while attracting a more transient casual base. This caused the entire industry to decline. They had to find a way to engage casuals as more and more traditional players moved on to other entertainment avenues, like single player to multiplayer FPS online games.

 

There were a few games that discovered, quite by accident, that they could avoid the transient caveat by charging actual cash directly for those features instead and remove the subscription requirement.

 

With a few notable exceptions this became the industry norm...now the industry could survive in a casual transient market and still provide a reasonable amount of content to a wider range of players.

 

And that is what we have today. Most games use the F2P hybrid systems in some form. Very few remain that are pure sub or F2P.

 

So, in short, a game that utilizes MTs tends to provide a steady stream of casual centric content to a transient base while still remaining solvent. That attracts and is appealing to casual players.

 

It is also slowly becoming more accepted by traditional hardcore players, though they still lag behind in acceptance....they were resistant to the original convenience movement as well.

 

/Agree with everything you shared here LA. Very much agree.

[branmakmuffin]

how about keeping it buyable with CC but still keep requirement of 40 legacy?

Because not as many people would be able buy it. They want people to spend CCs. That's part of what keeps the game going.

 

Nothing on the market today has anywhere near as long travel times as EQ did. Some EQ travel was very fun (travelling overland through scary zones), some was not (sitting in a boat for 20 minutes).

 

Players today are babies who cry and whine about 1 or 2 minutes of loading time to travel from one planet to another. They cry that their speeders aren't fast enough. They cry if they aren't completely immune from all badguys while on speeders. They cry that quick travel takes a whole 30 minutes to recharge.

It's a game. It's supposed to be fun. If 20-minunte travel times are your idea of fun, then sit and wait 20 minutes every time your character travels to another planet.

 

People who say they want "realism" don't really want it, because in most cases, they could impose such "realism" on themselves, but they don't.

Edited July 5, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[CosmicKat]

Because not as many people would be able buy it. They want people to spend CCs. That's part of what keeps the game going.

 

 

It's a game. It's supposed to be fun. If 20-minunte travel times are your idea of fun, then sit and wait 20 minutes every time your character travels to another planet.

 

People who say they want "realism" don't really want it, because in most cases, they could impose such "realism" on themselves, but they don't.

 

If it's fun, who cares how long it takes?

 

Sitting in a boat for 20-30 minutes wasn't fun, and that kind of time sink is best gone forever.

 

The other travel times, like a 30 minute run through dangerous, hostile territory in a wide-open world, does not exist in TOR. You couldn't impose that on yourself if you tried.

[Grayseven]

But who benefits from this model? Do you actually think it is the player?

 

The old model was, Build a Good Enough Game that everyone will want to play it and keep playing it (Maybe design it to be addictive? This is where evil companies step in)

 

The new model is, build a game that requires you to spend your money on micro-transactions; ideally without realizing how much you are spending (This is why there aren't dollar amounts on purchases rather they use the in-game currency; detachment from the cost; and smaller cost things are better, lots of small things add up but most people don't bother counting them)

 

I am not one of the veterans you loath who wants you to have UO style death penalties (tho it sure was fun robbing someones house in UO back in the day... lol)

 

I just prefer a model where the emphasis was on good game design; where the game is fun regardless of how much cash you had in your wallet (or time you had available). A game designed for players not for taking the money of people.

 

This is spot on.

 

Do you know why casinos have checks (chips) instead of cash? Because playing with cash is too "real". Most players in a casino don't equate the green check to 25 bucks...it's just a green check. Same with MT's. It's easier to spend 1800 CC than it is to spend 12 bucks.

 

The player doesn't benefit from MT's. Yeah, you get a virtual good for your character, but what do you actually get? Fluff. EA/BW and all other games that are NOT P2W rely on the vanity of MMO players to spend money on this stuff.

 

Before the CM we paid the monthly sub and got everything. After the CM the only thing that changed for subscribers was that the in game achieved gear looked awful. Seriously, look at the pre-CM tier gear and compare the art to the stuff you get now. Same with crafted gear. You think this was by accident? No, the desirable aesthetics will no longer be achievable in game. You want a certain look, be prepared to pay for it.

 

But really, it has no effect on subscribers. Just because I have a certain look to my gear doesn't make me a better OP's player or PvPer. I can use the provided (ugly) OP's gear and pay credits for or earn a speeder. The Incendia won't get me anywhere faster than any other plain-jane 110% speeder. I can earn or buy pets in game so there is no need to get them from gambling boxes. My class rejuve works the same as a carbonite chamber. Do I really need a ball I can bounce off of someones head or a banner that proclaims my allegiance?

 

F2P players, however, face a different dilemma. They get the bare minimum needed to play and then get nickle and dimed for everything. Sure, they can hit level cap but they are going to do it with prototype gear. You have to pay for EVERYTHING and if those purchases were in cash instead of CC a F2P player would quickly see that it is cheaper to subscribe monthly than it is to use the CM to do stuff.

 

Were the game to live up to its pre-launch design (and hype), the subscriber numbers would have been good enough to more than pay for the game. But because of many failures (and continuing failures), the game couldn't stand on its own and EA/BW had to go the MT route.

 

MT's aren't "the future". MT's exist because game designers fail at making a product desirable enough to sustain a subscribing player base.